Michele Bachmann

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Huh, according to wiki it's supposed to be a check on the power of the judges. It strikes me as the worst possible way to do so.

It has to do a lot with conflict between the federal and provincial governments during the time of Trudeau (70s).

basically, to get western provinces, namely Alberta, to agree to the charter, they needed a way to prevent the federal courts from being able to overrule provincial matters. Alberta is essentially the Texas of Canada, and they hate the idea that the federal government would be involved in their affairs.

I agree though, I am very much not a fan of it at all. I'm totally in favor of provincial rights, but I think the idea that they have the right to undermine what should be the most basic of human rights (I mean the real important stuff, like innocence before guilt) is retarded.

Canadian federalism is actually a really interesting topic, lol. In a lot of ways, Alberta gets shafted

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It's interesting that the federal govt has never used it.

yes and no. popular opinion says that use of the notwithstanding clause would be so detrimental to the party in power that they would almost certainly be elected out of office. Voting rights are something the state can't take away, so if they tried to curb free speech, that party would likely lose a good deal of power in the next election, and after the 5 year period, the clause would not be invoked again.

the "its ok because they probably wont do it" argument doesn't sit well imho, however. When was the last time any government willingly gave up power it had accrued to itself?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yeah, forcing people to learn French seems like it would just get everyone irritated.

I think it would be far more effective it if was a french or quebecoise culture course, rather than french language. languages are so hard to learn, and nobody cares enough to actually put in the effort, especially when they are 10 and there is no language immersion.

Learning the quebecoise perspective of the plains of abraham, the roots of the FLQ crisis, the Duplessis era or the quiet revolution would not only be more interesting and digestible for students, it would probably have more of the desired effect that french language classes are trying to promote (ir: Quebec is special among provinces so it is ok that they have special rights and privileged etc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plains_of_abraham
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLQ_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Duplessis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Revolution

understanding quebec is probably the most important dynamic in canadian federal politics

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm going to be taking Spanish because its the one I have the most experience with and has the most practical use. Personally I think learning another language is an important part of getting an education but at the same time I speak English so I've never had a need to speak anything else in my life, hard to get any will power behind it.

lol, I had the exact same experience with Arabic, only I didn't take it because I thought it would be useful, I just didn't want to be afraid of muslims on the subway... (ya, I know)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Already on the list. Right now I'm really waiting for the heat wave to end. Going up on the Mont this morning was not a great idea.

ha!

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Back on topic, did anyone forget that Michelle Bachmann is ineligible to run for president under Amendment 14, Section 3?

Amendment 14, Section 3
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
A lot of her quotes could be interpreted as actively fostering rebellion and congress would need a 2/3rd's vote or she would need a presidential pardon to run.

Article 1, section 8, clause 15.
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.

EDIT: The fourteenth Amendment is for confederates anyway. Now THAT's insurrection!

I'm studying Canadian politics next time I get the chance. Inimalist, that stuff looks weird, but it looks way more benign than the weird stuff we get down here.

shes a ****. nough said

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

I'm going to be taking Spanish because its the one I have the most experience with and has the most practical use. Personally I think learning another language is an important part of getting an education but at the same time I speak English so I've never had a need to speak anything else in my life, hard to get any will power behind it.

Overall, do you think Spanish is an easy or hard language for a non-native speaker to learn?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Overall, do you think Spanish is an easy or hard language for a non-native speaker to learn?

It's not that hard for an English speaker. A lot of words are cognates of either well known or only slightly obscure English words. Its the grammar that drives me nuts, but that's happened in every language I've even taken a class in (Japanese, Latin, Spanish, French . . . English).

Originally posted by Quark_666
Just to spare everyone the trouble of looking it up: I've gotta admit, you had my hopes up for a second there, but I looked up insurrection. Insurrection is defined as an act of rising in revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government. Totally different from a verbal attack. Outside the fourteenth amendment, the word insurrection is only referenced once in the Constitution, but it appears to be defined as a fairly violent act.If a case were made against her right to run for president, I'm fairly confident the supreme court would rule in her favor. I certainly would, political views aside.

EDIT: The fourteenth Amendment is for confederates anyway. Now THAT's insurrection!

Well, they did allow a 1%er and former military officer into congress that called for armed rebellion and shooting his opponents anyway so maybe it's just one of those things they gloss over nowadays like that whole ban on bills of attainder.

jello: do you think hate speech is protected under free speech?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Overall, do you think Spanish is an easy or hard language for a non-native speaker to learn?

Obama has dual citizenship due to his dad and that makes him an illigitimate leader. Nobody says anything about that.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Obama has dual citizenship due to his dad and that makes him an illigitimate leader. Nobody says anything about that.

Dual citizenship or not, fact is that 14th amendment gives full rights simply by being born in the US. Where your parents are from means zip.

The Federalist Papers voice concerns about Englishmen running America because American culture was based off English culture. I think they'd laugh at the threat of takeover by the Hawaiian natives in an ultimate scheme to give influence to Muslims.

Pretty sure Jefferson had dual citizenship with America and France, too.

Originally posted by inimalist
jello: do you think hate speech is protected under free speech?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
The court has ruled that it is and Marbury Vs. Madison still stands so it's a moot argument but personally, I think it shouldn't be and in fact isn't since all true hate speech (community standard of "I know it when I hear it", not parity, not bad taste, etc.) is not protected because it can have no other purpose than to incite violence and panic.
The whole global and domestic political situation depresses me. It's the 21st Century. We should have buried right-wing politics in a coffin, staked it, decapitated it, and burned it ten years ago. Our concerns should be fixing the environmental damage of the last century, working together to solve problems, and expanding into space, not refighting the battles of WWII with a global cult of fascist fanatics and monetary psychopaths.

fair enough, its consistent with your stance on talking about rebellion...

I guess this is just another moment where I can't say I'd give the state as much power as you want to

Originally posted by inimalist
fair enough, its consistent with your stance on talking about rebellion...

I guess this is just another moment where I can't say I'd give the state as much power as you want to

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Yet you live in a country that more or less has that amount of power.

ya, I'm not happy about the hate speech laws in my country

Originally posted by inimalist
ya, I'm not happy about the hate speech laws in my country

How about a grand compromise. No hate speech laws but law enforcement officially ignores all activities committed by SHARP, FSU, Anti-Racist Action, and any other organization employing the philosophy or tactics of the Iron Front.

well, no

one is speech, the other is vigilantism

I worry much more about people who take the law into their own hands than I do people who express themselves

To elaborate on my original statement (I apologize for the bump, I've been gone a long time), Bachmann is hateful and insane. She has an extreme case of homophobia for no logical reason, thinks that intelligent design should be taught in schools despite likely knowing jack shit about Science, and makes more mistakes than Sarah Palin. She makes factual errors such as thinking that John Adams was a Founding Father (to justify her revisionist claim that the FF's worked tirelessly to end slavery) and refuses to admit that she was wrong. She mixed up Elvis's birth and death day.

Originally posted by Fortitude
[B]She makes factual errors such as thinking that John Adams was a Founding Father (to justify her revisionist claim that the FF's worked tirelessly to end slavery) /B]