Who can beat current Madara?

Maybe to us, but if someone can go a thousand times FTL, they're still not instant.

Goku dodged a laser that was larger than him. He dodged photons. He's FTL.

He can fly after someone on Earth and not be there immediately. He's massively STL, as visibly, repeatedly, regularly demonstrated.

Not even remotely close!

And here's a thing- dodging something doesn't require being remotely near it's speed. If someone fires a laser at me from a lightsecond away, I can easily dodge at perfectly human speed. No matter how fast the attack, *I* only have to go one body width. Heck, even if someone was fired two bodywidths away, the person would only need to go half the speed of the attack.

When you get to the point when people are arguing FTL punches and such, it just means numbers are being tossed around without real conception of what they mean.

Originally posted by Q99
He can fly after someone on Earth and not be there immediately. He's massively STL, as visibly, repeatedly, regularly demonstrated.

Not even remotely close!

And here's a thing- dodging something doesn't require being remotely near it's speed. If someone fires a laser at me from a lightsecond away, I can easily dodge at perfectly human speed. No matter how fast the attack, *I* only have to go one body width. Heck, even if someone was fired two bodywidths away, the person would only need to go half the speed of the attack.

When you get to the point when people are arguing FTL punches and such, it just means numbers are being tossed around without real conception of what they mean.

When has Goku ever flown somewhere and not been there in a few seconds? The anime/manga is shown from Goku's(mostly) POV, because it would be boring to watch a bunch of random explosions with some dialogue from beat up characters afterwards. Snake way was the exception, but Goku was deprived of nutrients, and didn't know how to fly(hardly) at all. He was tired after flying for just a few seconds at full speed, which is still slower than his battle speed on the ground, as stated when he fought Frieza, and fought him on ground because Frieza could fly so easily and use his battle-speed while in the air. Goku is faster on ground than in the air, until probably the point when he fought Cell or at least went into the ROSAT.

Here's the thing- Goku traveled more distance than the laser did, in the same time frame the laser did. The laser was only a few feet away from him, and he jumped on a building to dodge it in the same time it took the laser to travel less ground. Just like with Taiyoken, Goku traveled more distance than light did, in less time. Goku is FTL, easily.

Again, it was stated multiple times that they conserve nearly all of their energy while traveling so that they can use more energy in a fight.

How do you think Goku flew 5X the distance of Earth in the namek saga in less than half a second if he's slower than light?

Anyone remember when Saiyan Saga Goku took an entire day to travel the 1,000,000 kilometer long Snake Way?

Boy I do.

Lol, "laser".

Originally posted by NemeBro
Anyone remember when Saiyan Saga Goku took an entire day to travel the 1,000,000 kilometer long Snake Way?

Boy I do.

Lol, "laser".

Anyone remember when Namek saga Goku traveled half the distance of Namek(5X the distance of Earth) in less than half a second? Or when Kid Goku ran all around Earth chasing Yajirobe several times in a minute without getting winded? Or when he moved more distance than a laser did in less time? Or when everyone on this ****ing site had explained to retards like you at least once that battle speed and flight speed are completely different because they use barely a fraction of their ki while traveling to conserve energy?

Boy I do.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Anyone remember when Namek saga Goku traveled half the distance of Namek(5X the distance of Earth) in less than half a second?

No because it didn't happen.

Or when Kid Goku ran all around Earth chasing Yajirobe several times in a minute without getting winded?

Read above.

Or when he moved more distance than a laser did in less time?

Prove it was lightspeed.

Or when everyone on this ****ing site had explained to retards like you at least once that battle speed and flight speed are completely different because they use barely a fraction of their ki while traveling to conserve energy?

Boy I do.

Go back to trying to get a pity **** from your mother. You might be slightly more successful at that than what you're doing right now.

>combat speed argument

Oh dear, this won't go well

Cool it, SSJGGogeta and NemeBro.

Christ on his cross! Can't people have a debate without name calling?

Stop it and calm down!

Dammit. You children. I said this realm is supposed to be a haven where we adults work our shit out without involving mods. This was supposed to be a secret corner on KMC where no mod had felt the need to moderate.

Anyone remember when Namek saga Goku traveled half the distance of Namek(5X the distance of Earth) in less than half a second?

One, no, and I *do* remember Freiza and others having to spend time getting to places on Namek. Heck, running from and chasing Cell were both things that happened in the next arc.

Two, you're talking significantly slower than lightspeed in that case anyway.

Originally posted by Q99
Two, you're talking significantly slower than lightspeed in that case anyway.

No. It is almost c if it ix 5 times the circumference of the Earth.

Do recall Freiza's finals form taking until Dende finished his wish to speed over to the dragon about 3 miles away.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Do recall Freiza's finals form taking until Dende finished his wish to speed over to the dragon about 3 miles away.

PIS and dramatic effect: Akira Toriyama's favorite pastime.

Originally posted by Impediment
Cool it, SSJGGogeta and NemeBro.

Christ on his cross! Can't people have a debate without name calling?

Stop it and calm down!

@ Nemebro: On the back of DBZ volume 10, it says Goku awakens on the other side of the planet. I have the scan.

When Krillin and Roshi fought in Dragon Ball, they did a multitude of battle maneuvers and had an entire fight including many punches and even procrastination. They threw several punches each and several kicks in less than a fifth of a second. Frieza, being millions of times stronger than those two combined, was able to throw a punch in much less time, around a 2 millionth of a second, along with multiple other maneuvers, like Roshi and Krillin did. This is the bare minimum possible for him, when using only 6 million of his 120 million power level. Goku flew all the way around half of Namek(as I just posted proof of), in less time than it took Frieza to throw a punch when he was actually trying. That constitutes much FTL just as it is. You can deny it all you want, but the proof is there. Deal with it.

@ BloodRain: When Dende already started with the wish, Frieza still made it there before he finished the wish, they were on opposite sides of the planet(the dilation shown for exaggeration most likely), and Frieza didn't get his wish only because he didn't speak Namekian.

@ Q99: I also recall Supergirl flying from and outpacing PC Superman. Just because you can go FTL doesn't mean you can instantly catch someone who's as fast as or faster than you. That's a 5 year olds fail-logic, pal. Not to mention Cell could hide his ki and still move FTL because of his biology and android heritage.

Not just that, going 5 times Earth's circumference in less than half a second(really about a 2 millionth of a second), constitutes about 45% faster than light speed.

@ Impediment: Okay, I'm cool, I'm cool... I'm calm.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Not just that, going 5 times Earth's circumference in less than half a second(really about a 2 millionth of a second), constitutes about 45% faster than light speed.

Earth's circumference: 40,075 km

Speed of light in kmh: 1,079,252,850 kmh

I assume you're getting your numbers about the size of Namek from the narutoforums:

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=16051

They conclude 3.5 times as large as the Earth's.

So going 3.5 times the earth's circumference in half a second:

40,075kmh/.5s = 80150km in 1 second.

80150 kms to hours: 80150*3600 = 288,540,000 kmh

288,540,000 kmh/1,079,252,850 kmh = .267 = 26.7%

It is 26.7% the speed of light.

It just so happens I can do Lorentz Transformation (relativistic mass) math. I'm skipping the "show your work" part because that would take too long to type out.

At 26.7% of the speed of light, the relativistic change factor becomes ~1.038 meaning that Goku's mass would increase by by a factor of 1.038. Not that much.

So what's next?

DDM, you forgot to multiply the distance traveled by 3.5 (actually should be multipled by 1.75 as he goes around only half of Namek). Anyway, it's roughly 47% the speed of light assuming Namek's circumfrance is 3.5 times as large as Earth's and that he flew that far in .5 a second.

Originally posted by ares834
DDM, you forgot to multiply the distance traveled by 3.5 (actually should be multipled by 1.75 as he goes around only half of Namek). Anyway, it's roughly 47% the speed of light assuming Namek's circumfrance is 3.5 times as large as Earth's and that he flew that far in .5 a second.

Multiply the numerator by 1.75 to get a different number on the final answer or multiply the final ratio by 1.75.

0.4678653385070978

Originally posted by dadudemon
Earth's circumference: 40,075 km

Speed of light in kmh: 1,079,252,850 kmh

I assume you're getting your numbers about the size of Namek from the narutoforums:

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=16051

They conclude 3.5 times as large as the Earth's.

So going 3.5 times the earth's circumference in half a second:

40,075kmh/.5s = 80150km in 1 second.

80150 kms to hours: 80150*3600 = 288,540,000 kmh

288,540,000 kmh/1,079,252,850 kmh = .267 = 26.7%

It is 26.7% the speed of light.

It just so happens I can do Lorentz Transformation (relativistic mass) math. I'm skipping the "show your work" part because that would take too long to type out.

At 26.7% of the speed of light, the relativistic change factor becomes ~1.038 meaning that Goku's mass would increase by by a factor of 1.038. Not that much.

So what's next?

This is ****ing saddening. My 10 year old niece is a better mathematician.

First of all, Earths circumference is 40,008 km.

Second of all, that times 3.5 is 140,028 km(in half a second).

Next, we take the speed of light(in km) and divide it by 60, then 60 again, then by 2. This gives us 149,896.2 km/half second.

Still not light speed. However, as I pointed out before, that's not quite correct. Roshi and Krillin threw several punches and kicks in 1/5th of a second while still toying around. They had power levels of less than a hundred each(Roshi used only 3 quarters of his power until he fought Goku, as he stated in the manga). Now, Frieza used only 6 million of his PL to stomp Vegeta. So, it would take Frieza less than a 3 millionth of a second(or 0.000003 seconds) to throw a punch AT THE MOST. Now, since Goku traveled there as Frieza threw the punch, and got there before it landed, Goku traveled there in a 3 millionth of a second AT LEAST.

So, to calculate the speed, we use the speed of light(in km) per second, which is 299,792.4 km/second. Now, we take the distance of Namek, 140,028 km, and we divide it by two because Goku only traveled half of it, which means he traveled 70,014 km. So, we can say he traveled 70,014 km in 0.000003 seconds. Now, we take the amount of time multiplied by one million, then divided by three to simplify it to one second. Now, we do the same to the distance. This makes Goku able to travel 23,338,000,000 km per second in the Frieza saga easily in base without Kaioken and with a power level of 3 million(according to the Daizenshuu). That is over 77,847.2 times faster than the speed of light, FYI.

Don't bother calcing that now, it would probably be wrong anyways.

So what's next?

But you're assuming that speed grows steadily in proportion with powerlevel in your third paragraph, I'm not sure if that assumption holds up through all the manga.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
This is ****ing saddening. My 10 year old niece is a better mathematician.

First of all, Earths circumference is 40,008 km.

Second of all, that times 3.5 is 140,028 km(in half a second).

Next, we take the speed of light(in km) and divide it by 60, then 60 again, then by 2. This gives us 149,896.2 km/half second.

Still not light speed. However, as I pointed out before, that's not quite correct. Roshi and Krillin threw several punches and kicks in 1/5th of a second while still toying around. They had power levels of less than a hundred each(Roshi used only 3 quarters of his power until he fought Goku, as he stated in the manga). Now, Frieza used only 6 million of his PL to stomp Vegeta. So, it would take Frieza less than a 3 millionth of a second(or 0.000003 seconds) to throw a punch AT THE MOST. Now, since Goku traveled there as Frieza threw the punch, and got there before it landed, Goku traveled there in a 3 millionth of a second AT LEAST.

So, to calculate the speed, we use the speed of light(in km) per second, which is 299,792.4 km/second. Now, we take the distance of Namek, 140,028 km, and we divide it by two because Goku only traveled half of it, which means he traveled 70,014 km. So, we can say he traveled 70,014 km in 0.000003 seconds. Now, we take the amount of time multiplied by one million, then divided by three to simplify it to one second. Now, we do the same to the distance. This makes Goku able to travel 23,338,000,000 km per second in the Frieza saga easily in base without Kaioken and with a power level of 3 million(according to the Daizenshuu). That is over 77,847.2 times faster than the speed of light, FYI.

Don't bother calcing that now, it would probably be wrong anyways.

So what's next?

Ares and I both beat you to it:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Multiply the numerator by 1.75 to get a different number on the final answer or multiply the final ratio by 1.75.

0.4678653385070978

That's no where near "45% faster than the speed of light", like you stated. 🙂

You ****ed up. You talked out of your ass. Someone decided to check your work and, low and behold, you were wrong.

Deal with it like an adult instead of having childish meltdowns.

Here, let me show you how it works:

Ares, yeah, man, you're right: I forgot to account for the size increase in Namek. But, since it only changes the result by a factor of 1.75, that does not change the conclusion: "It is still not faster than light." Thank you for your input, sir.