Volcanos even have a measure system that's simliar to how earthquakes are measure called VEI ( Volcanic Explosivity Index )
http://www.ussartf.org/volcanoes.htm
http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/education/eruption_scale.html
exmaples taking from the two links above
VEI
0 non explosive: Kilauea
1 gentle: Stromboli
2 explosive: Galeras
3 Severe: Ruiz
4 Cataclysmic: Galunggung
5 paroxysmal: St. Helens
6 colossal: Krakatau
7 super-colossal: Tambora
8 mega-colossal: Yellowstone
So it IS stated... Didn't know that but am inclined to agree there, in which case.. I'd have to say these 3 have a good chance... Until proven otherwise... Reason being, is mostly cause orochi's based on an actual japanese deity, where as in comic book villians are based on.. Well other villians 😛 that being said... The only thing or way i've heard of him being taken down was through the 3 sacred treasures... (Or so the legend goes..) either way, orochi's dormant so no need to worry huh? But as far as this thread, full power orochi (gaia's will as it calls itself) i don't think these guys can take it (him/her whatever..) without the treasures.... Jus sayin...
Originally posted by unrealman
Volcanos even have a measure system that's simliar to how earthquakes are measure called VEI ( Volcanic Explosivity Index )http://www.ussartf.org/volcanoes.htm
http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/education/eruption_scale.html
exmaples taking from the two links above
VEI
0 non explosive: Kilauea
1 gentle: Stromboli
2 explosive: Galeras
3 Severe: Ruiz
4 Cataclysmic: Galunggung
5 paroxysmal: St. Helens
6 colossal: Krakatau
7 super-colossal: Tambora
8 mega-colossal: Yellowstone
Hey cool man... I might look this up sounds interesting.... Go volcanologists!!
Originally posted by Innominate__1
So it IS stated... Didn't know that but am inclined to agree there, in which case.. I'd have to say these 3 have a good chance... Until proven otherwise... Reason being, is mostly cause orochi's based on an actual japanese deity, where as in comic book villians are based on.. Well other villians 😛 that being said... The only thing or way i've heard of him being taken down was through the 3 sacred treasures... (Or so the legend goes..) either way, orochi's dormant so no need to worry huh? But as far as this thread, full power orochi (gaia's will as it calls itself) i don't think these guys can take it (him/her whatever..) without the treasures.... Jus sayin...
No, it's implied at best, and never ever shown.
It's irrelevant really what he or they is based on.
And the only reason is because humans cannot normally challenge immortals unless through exploitable weaknesses. That does not give him leave to try and staonewall/no-sell attacks from beings who have proven to be far stronger through demonstrated feats. Doing so invites what is known as "A no-limits fallacy".
No limits fallacy... Well good thing i didn't mention omnipotence 😛 and well being that as it may... The reason i brought up the legend is because of how they were able to defeat said entity (orochi) and why wouldn't it matter where it's based of? Im sure alot of the SF characters are based of an ancient life force theory (chi or ki)... Is how they become stronger by tapping into this.. What, ''Spirit energy''? Which comes from nature or human spirit... And what's more than nature?(or incomprehensable to the human understanding of spirit energy?) Supernatural was it? My point is that, if this (though with it's limits and limits unkown) devine ancient thing (orochi) may only be taken down a certain way like being trapped in another dimension... Doubt anything's stronger than it... But we cannot have that can we? 🙂
Originally posted by Innominate__1
No limits fallacy... Well good thing i didn't mention omnipotence 😛 and well being that as it may... The reason i brought up the legend is because of how they were able to defeat said entity (orochi) and why wouldn't it matter where it's based of? Im sure alot of the SF characters are based of an ancient life force theory (chi or ki)... Is how they become stronger by tapping into this.. What, ''Spirit energy''? Which comes from nature or human spirit... And what's more than nature?(or incomprehensable to the human understanding of spirit energy?) Supernatural was it? My point is that, if this (though with it's limits and limits unkown) devine ancient thing (orochi) may only be taken down a certain way like being trapped in another dimension... Doubt anything's stronger than it... But we cannot have that can we? 🙂
Do not take this off on a wild tangent. A lot of media uses the Ki-Chi theory, including SNK, it's hardly contained to Street Fighter. Does Dragon Ball ring bells? Hows about King Of Fighters?
And orochi is not even limited to SNK either, Koei used the Orochi legend in their Warriors Orochi franchise, and guess what, that incarnation was ALSO killed by mortal men and women...
As pertaining to KOF; It was defeated in it's complete state by mortals using far less power than the characters I've described.Your seriously trying to compare Orochi to Galactus and say he will come out on top due to some obscure "Invulnerability"? Oh man.... The Comic Vs Forum would chew this out in a heartbeat... An Earth legend barely a few thousand years old is supposed to defeat a guy who survived the big bang from the previous universe, but EATS planets like cotton candy.... Dude, that puts him above the level of Gaia and the Dragon Spirit, two SNK entities well beyond Orochi, by at least 4 orders of magnitude. I'm not kidding. Gaia, who is supposed to be the living spirit of the Earth right? well, Galactus has devoured MANY worlds, spirit and all. and guess what, Galactus is a flea on the ass of dudes like Living Tribunal and guys like LT still arnt top tier.
A comics forum huh?? Well we're not there are we? 🙂 And im aware of the living tribunal and TOAA ( the one above all... In case u forgot who's authority the LT answers to)... And here's galactus... A comicbook character.. Much like other comicbook characters and/or video game characters (i like comics but take them as just that... Comics and their characters same as i take video games... And those characters) who at any given time can be over-powerd, over-rated and all that... What i was doing was comparing a being based off an ancient japenese legend (myth, endowed with all its powers) to 3 very strong video game characters... I see your point where it's all cut from the same cloth (immaginations of people embelished with more stories and such) where in the end people can still defy and overthrow them with their human spirit, but as far as wild tangent, im not taking it out of the topic you brought more into this... does it matter? Nah... Cause we're discussing one divine being with 3 very strong ones... Do they stand a chance? Maybe, do i see it happening? Nope, because, The only way 3 other really strong guys beat it was to SEAL IT IN A MIRROR!! (ancestors did the same) so if there were any other way the orochi could be sealed id like to hear it... See it, or something... Cause as tough as people were... That's what stopped the orochi... 🙂
Originally posted by Innominate__1Implied power or capabilities without anything concrete to corroborate them means little when debating fictional characters. It could be all hyperbole for all we know.
Haha...!! Dbz.. Anyhow, how would the yellowstone thing work (curious)? And of course he didn't wipe out huamnity (what kind of story would allow that?) it's implied he can, it's why kyo, iori, and chizuru had to combine their efforts to do stop him... I mean if he weren't dangerous then they'd just let him be (Same would go for cell), so yeah, i mean, other people who have a portion of his power (small portions at that) can do some damage... Thus, IMPLYING that orochi fully powered can do said feat... But idk how u'll interpret that... 😄
No one in KOF has ever done anything even remotely close to the equivalent of life-wiping power, therefore Orochi lacks a precedent to be placed at such levels.
And of course a being like Orochi, capable of giving ordinary humans special abilities for terrorism purposes would be considered a threat to some degree, and even more so 1,800 years ago. A man like Akuma then, capable of smashing mountains and cause vulcans to erupt would be considered the devil in person.
Originally posted by stargun
Implied power or capabilities without anything concrete to corroborate them means little when debating fictional characters. It could be all hyperbole for all we know.No one in KOF has ever done anything even remotely close to the equivalent of life-wiping power, therefore Orochi lacks a precedent to be placed at such levels.
And of course a being like Orochi, capable of giving ordinary humans special abilities for terrorism purposes would be considered a threat to some degree, and even more so 1,800 years ago. A man like Akuma then, capable of smashing mountains and cause vulcans to erupt would be considered the devil in person.
I see... So what your saying is, orochi's only capable of Bestowing powers to people and said people can only amount to terrorism type feats? Where as in akuma, has what, god-like feats? Talk about role reversing... anyway, not including feats yet, orochi isn't a human, was basically born from earth and got pissed at humanity then waged war and was banished to another dimension.. Apparantley has lived 1800 yrs(maybe more so cause he could've been born a little after the earth was formed) can akuma live that long? Doubtful, can anyone in sf? Don't think so, as there's no concrete evidence... So my point is that no matter how you look at it akuma's a human (who's reached a tier not yet explored by other humans), this thing (orochi) is a supernatural entity and (no feats involved unless we can call that a durability feat haha!!) has already lived for centuries, was sealed in another dimension through a mirror? don't know if it can be killed defeated sure... By just akuma? Nah... The other 3 we're discussing... Hm.. Maybe, but like i said orochi's tier is pretty much god or semi-god... Don't see them being able to take him..
Originally posted by Innominate__1
A comics forum huh?? Well we're not there are we? 🙂 And im aware of the living tribunal and TOAA ( the one above all... In case u forgot who's authority the LT answers to)... And here's galactus... A comicbook character.. Much like other comicbook characters and/or video game characters (i like comics but take them as just that... Comics and their characters same as i take video games... And those characters) who at any given time can be over-powerd, over-rated and all that... What i was doing was comparing a being based off an ancient japenese legend (myth, endowed with all its powers) to 3 very strong video game characters... I see your point where it's all cut from the same cloth (immaginations of people embelished with more stories and such) where in the end people can still defy and overthrow them with their human spirit, but as far as wild tangent, im not taking it out of the topic you brought more into this...
I know about TOAA, I didn't want to mention him or The Presence because those are actual Gods in the most literal sense in fiction.
You took it on a wild tangent by going off on a tirade in trying to prove Orochi's supposed Invulnerability to EVERYTHING bar the treasures, and I pointed out the no-limits fallacy that induces by providing several fictous characters who all have the ability to smash Orochi with trivial ease, because they have done so and more...
Point being, the very source Orochi claims to draw strength from (AKA Gaia) would e nothing more than a twinkie for beings like Galactus, never mind beings of the level of Eternals, Abstracts or higher. hell, Thanos, when empowered with the Infinity Gauntlet, simply Unmade half the universe in order to seduce Lady Death, an Abstract Entity....
Originally posted by Innominate__1
does it matter? Nah... Cause we're discussing one divine being with 3 very strong ones... Do they stand a chance? Maybe, do i see it happening? Nope, because, The only way 3 other really strong guys beat it was to SEAL IT IN A MIRROR!! (ancestors did the same) so if there were any other way the orochi could be sealed id like to hear it... See it, or something... Cause as tough as people were... That's what stopped the orochi... 🙂
Ok, several problems here...
#1: Orochi is not Divine. He does not meet the criteria of a God, and nor does Gaia, whom he draws strength from. He is at best, a Metahuman Immortal who can still be harmed and potentially even be killed.
#2: Define "Really Strong Guys" please. I know your reffering to Kyo, Iori and Chizuru, but simply playing the A>B>C fallacy will get you nowhere. And all that proves is that they used what is called a Plot Device in order to beat him.
#2b: That said, what does Orochi's capabilities have to do with Goenitz?
#3: Besides, all this is meaningless. Are you now suggesting that because other methods where not used, that they will not work? How do you POSSIBLY come to that conclusion? I can ritely argue that Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu would work quite handily, especially since Orochi is so full of evil, it's potency would increase exponentially.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
I see... So what your saying is, orochi's only capable of Bestowing powers to people and said people can only amount to terrorism type feats? Where as in akuma, has what, god-like feats? Talk about role reversing...
Uh, I want you to point specifically where anyone said Akuma was godlike please. Anywhere at all...
No?
Thats right. Nobody said that. Now, please stop putting words in people's mouths and get back to debating the actual issue. Orochi has no comparable feats. He has some vaguely undefinable capabilities to resist damage, and yet nothing he's done shows he can either replicate, or withstand what his opponent is bringing. That said, Goenitz is even WEAKER than Orochi is, and thats who is being debated here, and he has One feat that shows some modicum of promise, But that one feat gets quickly overshadowed by 4 in Akuma's favour. Why is this so difficult to grasp?
Originally posted by Innominate__1
anyway, not including feats yet, orochi isn't a human, was basically born from earth and got pissed at humanity then waged war and was banished to another dimension.. Apparantley has lived 1800 yrs(maybe more so cause he could've been born a little after the earth was formed) can akuma live that long? Doubtful, can anyone in sf? Don't think so, as there's no concrete evidence...
Not including feats is ridiculous. The rest is completely and utterly irrelevant.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
So my point is that no matter how you look at it akuma's a human (who's reached a tier not yet explored by other humans), this thing (orochi) is a supernatural entity and (no feats involved unless we can call that a durability feat haha!!) has already lived for centuries, was sealed in another dimension through a mirror? don't know if it can be killed defeated sure... By just akuma? Nah... The other 3 we're discussing... Hm.. Maybe, but like i said orochi's tier is pretty much god or semi-god... Don't see them being able to take him..
Your point is that you want to use the supposed 'God' attachment, (and Orochi is not a God, not even close, at best he is considered a demon, and even that has it's hitches) as a means to jury-rig a win for Goenitz despite the fact that Orochi is not Goenitz, and even he has limits.
Akuma was human, yes, apparently not anymore. Akuma is sacrificing more and more of his humanity as time passes. Hah! Again with the God title. Dude, Orochi is not omnipotent, He is not Omnicient, he is not Omnipresent, and he has been defeated by mortals weaker than Akuma.
You act like the Island Bust is the sole thing anyone is relying on... Your mistaken.
Here, I want you to hear these few lines of voice, and then replay it as many times as it takes for it to sink in. Fine advice
Thats right, it doesn't matter what you beleive, only what you can prove. Understand it yet?
[i]Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero.. didn't mention him or The Presence because those are actual Gods in the most literal sense in fiction.
<< yes i know about them as well as ''the brothers''... don't know where you're going with this even when you first brought it up...??You took it on a wild tangent by going off on a tirade in trying to prove Orochi's supposed Invulnerability to EVERYTHING bar the treasures, and I pointed out the no-limits fallacy that induces by providing several fictous characters who all have the ability to smash Orochi with trivial ease, because they have done so...
<< still think you're bringing in comic book characters... And i can think of a few (but i don't know who u mean) example of said characters..?Point being, the very source Orochi claims to draw strength from (AKA Gaia) would e nothing more than a twinkie for beings like Galactus, Eternals, Abstracts or higher. hell, Thanos, when empowered.. simply Unmade half the univers to seduce Lady Death, an Abstract Entity....
<< again with the marvel/dc characters and yes i see what you mean, or at least i think.... you're saying since these being have proved their feats that orochi doesn't compare, i agree, because... orochi's a flippin! VIDEO GAME CHARACTER! (Thread's gonna close cause of u bringing these dudes into it) js 🙂Ok, several problems here...
#1: Orochi is not Divine. He does not meet the criteria of a God, and nor does Gaia, whom he draws strength from. He is at best, a Metahuman Immortal who can still be harmed and potentially even be killed. << you called him a demon did you not? Anyway, ''metahuman'' im going to see if that term applies because it seems that you just keep on bringing more and more labels and techinacilities to depower orochi.. And yes he can be hurt possibly stopped by other means but it has never been stated before and that's cause he waged war on all of humanity (or so his story goes in kof)
#2: Define "Really Strong Guys" please. I know your reffering to Kyo, Iori and Chizuru, but simply playing the A>B>C fallacy will get you nowhere. And all that proves is that they used what is called a Plot Device in order to beat him.
<<i was referring to them and to the guys we are discussing on this thread... And what plot device do you mean?
#2b: hat said, what does Orochi's capabilities have to do with Goenitz? << i don't remember mentioning goentiz at least on THIS Thread...
#3: Besides, all this is meaningless. Are you now suggesting that because other methods where not used, that they will not work? How do you POSSIBLY come to that conclusion? I can ritely argue that Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu would work quite handily, especially since Orochi is so full of evil, it's potency would increase exponentially.
<<i came to that conclusion same way you always need concrete evidence for anything that has power at a higher level than akuma... Basically because it's implied (i know how much you hate it but that's the tone that was given when mentioned how orochi was defeated after he waged war on humanity) you need the 3 treasures to seal him away... It wasn't mentioned you needed that OR some very strong warriors.. 😄Uh, I want you to point specifically where anyone said Akuma was godlike please. Anywhere at all...
No?
Thats right. Nobody said that. Now, please stop putting words in people's mouths and get back to debating the actual issue. Orochi has no comparable feats. He has some vaguely undefinable capabilities to resist damage, and yet nothing he's done shows he can either replicate, or withstand what his opponent is bringing. That said, Goenitz is even WEAKER than Orochi is, and thats who is being debated here, and he has One feat that shows some modicum of promise, But that one feat gets quickly overshadowed by 4 in Akuma's favour. Why is this so difficult to grasp?
<<again don't know where i mentioned goenitz and yes he is weaker than orochi, though it isn't shown so you would say there's no ''proof'' or no ''feats'' so it didn't happen, but if you cannot conclude that from The story then.. idk what's wrong with u.. and do u mean goenitz's feat? Cause that's on another thread don't need to bring that in this one..Not including feats is ridiculous.. completely and utterly irrelevant.
<< they help somewhat but relying only on feats to conclude any fight is just as badYour point is that you want to use the supposed 'God' attachment, (and Orochi is not a God, not even close, at best he is considered a demon, and even that has it's hitches) as a means to jury-rig a win for Goenitz despite the fact that Orochi is not Goenitz, and even he has limits.
<<again with goenitz, And yeah he's got limits jst much higher than the other characters we are discussing 🙂
Akuma was human, yes, apparently not anymore. Akuma is sacrificing more of his humanity as time passes. Hah! Again with the God title.. has been defeated by mortals weaker than Akuma.
<<so akuma's sacrificing his humanity in order to get to be more powerful? Guess who was already powerful w/o
resorting to that? 🙂
You act like Island Bust is the sole thing anyone is relying on..I want you to hear these few lines of voice, and then replay it as many times as it takes for it to sink in..Fine advice
Thats right, it doesn't matter what you beleive, only what you can prove. Understand yet? Since im typing i can't ''hear'' the words can i? 😛 and Ill take ur ''fine advice'' when ur a bit more open minded [/B]
Please dude, please, if your going to quote, do it properly... Now I have to spend an extra 30 or so minutes trying to clear everything up... 🙁
Originally posted by Innominate__1
yes i know about them as well as ''the brothers''... don't know where you're going with this even when you first brought it up...??
As i stated previously, I bring them up as examples of characters who could pinky flick orochi and not even notice it, despite your no-limits fallacy claim of being impervious to everything except the treasures. Thes guys are perfect examples becaue Orochi has NEVER been tested that far ever.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
still think you're bringing in comic book characters... And i can think of a few (but i don't know who u mean) example of said characters..?
It's not just comic characters Innom, there are many examples within videogames as well.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
again with the marvel/dc characters and yes i see what you mean, or at least i think.... you're saying since these being have proved their feats that orochi doesn't compare, i agree, because... orochi's a flippin! VIDEO GAME CHARACTER! (Thread's gonna close cause of u bringing these dudes into it) js
Read above, there are many Videgame characters who can do the same, say for example, a sizable portion of Darkstalker characters.
And no, the thread does not close due to examples being used, nice try though.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
you called him a demon did you not? Anyway, ''metahuman'' im going to see if that term applies because it seems that you just keep on bringing more and more labels and techinacilities to depower orochi.. And yes he can be hurt possibly stopped by other means but it has never been stated before and that's cause he waged war on all of humanity (or so his story goes in kof)
no, I said the best possibe descriptor would be "Demon", not God, and I also went on to describe how the descriptor was irrelevant anyway. He is not a divine being, and even if he was, it was never demonstrated.
The term metahuman is a pretty broad powerlevel description tht he fits into the higher end of. But he goes no higher than that due to not having accomplished anything besides jobbing horrendously. He waged war, and he lost. This does not mean he cannot be stopped by anything other than the treasures, and you trying to use that as proof of him having some sort of absolute invulnerability is, of course, absurd. Lack of evidence is not evidence of the opposite.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
i was referring to them and to the guys we are discussing on this thread... And what plot device do you mean?
No, not reffer to, I mean Define what you mean by "Really Strong". The 3 treasures are a plot device against Orochi, it is reffered to in simple terms as an instant "I WIN" button. it is like the Infinity Gauntlet, or The Green Lantern's ring, or Kryptonite, or for you as a videogame buff, The Master Sword and Triforce from legend of Zelda. usually, instawin buttons like these are disallowed for vs debates to make the characters rely on their own skills to win a match and not some plot induced stupidity. this includes disabling the capabilities usually associated with the device, such as Orochi's supposed, and untested invulnerability.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
i came to that conclusion same way you always need concrete evidence for anything that has power at a higher level than akuma... Basically because it's implied (i know how much you hate it but that's the tone that was given when mentioned how orochi was defeated after he waged war on humanity) you need the 3 treasures to seal him away... It wasn't mentioned you needed that OR some very strong warriors..
The difference is, you have no evidence either way. I do. Therefore, asthe only one to supply evidence, my argument beats yours. Implications have no weight in a vs match. The fact is, Orochi did nothing exept job to 3 peeple, twice.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
again don't know where i mentioned goenitz and yes he is weaker than orochi, though it isn't shown so you would say there's no ''proof'' or no ''feats'' so it didn't happen, but if you cannot conclude that from The story then.. idk what's wrong with u.. and do u mean goenitz's feat? Cause that's on another thread don't need to bring that in this one..
Right right right, my bad, I put this in the wrong thread. However, that said, your relying on interprative speculation. people read things differently is one bad thing about your methodology, and another is that there is no factual basis you can bring to the table reguarding such interpretation. Feats simply hold more weight than interpretations of story. You cannot give me an example of Goenitz or Orochi doing anything that could compete, thats your problem, not mine.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
they help somewhat but relying only on feats to conclude any fight is just as bad
True, but they hold a HELL of a lot more weight that speculations and theories.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
again with goenitz, And yeah he's got limits jst much higher than the other characters we are discussing
I'm going to end up repeating myself twice in a row here...
"If this is the case, then you would have no trouble proving it." - Once.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
so akuma's sacrificing his humanity in order to get to be more powerful? Guess who was already powerful w/o
resorting to that?
See?
"If this is the case, then you would have no troube proving it." - Twice
Originally posted by Innominate__1
and Ill take ur ''fine advice'' when ur a bit more open minded
An open mind is one thing, being completely gullible and claiming your speculation trumps my evidence is another thing entirely.