the whole thor moves as fast as lightning is (sorry, dc) rubbish or hyperbole. unless spiderman, mongoose, and quicksilver are all faster than lightning.
the comparison thread to this is the namor v wolverine. now i KNOW and have seen many cases where namor uses superspeed. there are VERY few where thor does so. the VAST majority of his battles weigh heavily against his possessing the ability to fight at superspeed. too many examples to name where he never showed it.
again, skillwise -- thor would CERTAINLY be a very good experienced fighter, but as a 'god' it's is not at all like he would need to study martial arts! with his power, what would the point be? he would be a great fighter like king arthur was. that doesn't mean someone doesn't know styles or skills that are beyond what thor has allowed himself to learn. take away all his strength and make him equal physically to wolverine. you think thor -- without ANY superpowers, using only his skill and knowledge -- could defeat logan in a h2h fight?? again, i would ask for on panel evidence of that skill, cuz i've never seen it . . .
invulnerabilty -- thor can and has been harmed by bullets. in a recent black panther arc, he was KO'D by a bullet that struck his head. we also see clear evidence that logan CAN certainly cut him.
i see the fight very similar to the wolvie v namor fight, only i don't see thor having namor's speed feats. he's slightly stronger than namor, and likely has a greater durability, but it is a similar fight, only i think thor would actually (based on observed evidence) be easier to hit.
and a final question (hey jin, playing devil's advocate for wolvie is kinda fun!!) -- name one cl100 character who, using purely physical means, has ko'd logan in a fight . . .?
😄
And then there's this: http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusslappinWolverine.jpg
Not sure if Wolverine was knocked out, but it sure is hilarious.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
"and a final question (hey jin, playing devil's advocate for wolvie is kinda fun!!) -- name one cl100 character who, using purely physical means, has ko'd logan in a fight . . .?"Hulk
Wonder Man would have if he wasn't interrupted
Thing
Sasquatch
VindicatorThey aren't all Cl100, but...
i thought hulk MIGHT have, but i couldn't remember where it happened. any idea of the issue, dc?
i'll grant wonderman, but did he sneak attack wolverine in that fight?
thing ko'd him? 😕 where?
sasquatch ko'd him? where?
good job on vindicator . . . i was wondering if you'd bring that one up . . .😉
i knew vin did it, (though that wasn't entirely fair because wolvie had no chance there seeing as how he couldn't damage vin in any way) and suspected hulk may have. don't recall the others and was a bit fuzzy on the wonderman fight about just HOW the whole thing began.
good job though, dc. at least you're bringing some actual evidence to this. adds legitimacy to your opinion -- which i respected in any event. 😉
what did you think of the comparison between namor and thor? slight strength to thor, speed to namor, durability to thor? who does wolverine have a BETTER chance against, do you think?
Regarding speed: According to the Official Marvel Handbook - Master Edition, Thor is faster than Wolverine in terms of speed and reflexes and is more agile to boot.
Here's the links:
Also, in the most recent Marvel RPG, Wolverine is listed as having Agility 4 (Enhanced Human) and Speed 2 (Athlete). Thor has Agility 5 (Superhuman) and Speed 5 (Superhuman).
Some more food for thought: Thor is fast enough to block bullets and energy rays with his hammer and is fast enough to fight effectively against Gladiator who does use super-speed in battle (at least sometimes).
He was fast and accurate enough to catch Mongoose's leg with the thong of his hammer.
Finally, I've heard (yes, heard) that Thor's skills when he was powerless compare favorably to Captain America's. If anyone has these scans and cares to post them, I'd appreciate it.
Originally posted by leonidas
i thought hulk MIGHT have, but i couldn't remember where it happened. any idea of the issue, dc?i'll grant wonderman, but did he sneak attack wolverine in that fight?
thing ko'd him? 😕 where?
sasquatch ko'd him? where?
good job on vindicator . . . i was wondering if you'd bring that one up . . .😉
i knew vin did it, (though that wasn't entirely fair because wolvie had no chance there seeing as how he couldn't damage vin in any way) and suspected hulk may have. don't recall the others and was a bit fuzzy on the wonderman fight about just HOW the whole thing began.
good job though, dc. at least you're bringing some actual evidence to this. adds legitimacy to your opinion -- which i respected in any event. 😉
what did you think of the comparison between namor and thor? slight strength to thor, speed to namor, durability to thor? who does namor have a BETTER chance against, do you think?
Thanks. 🙂
Hulk's knockout happened on Wolverine & Hulk: Six Hours (last issue):
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2337/wolverinehits24vh.gif
Plus it happened on Wolverine's first appearence too.
Sasquath (don't know the issue):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120-WolvieSasquatch.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120b-SasWolvieShoulder.jpg
Thing knocked him on the head, but it didn't happen on fight.
Strength and durability go to Thor, yes. And speed probably goes to Namor. Without Mjolnir, they would be pretty even, although Thor would still take the majority...
was a bit fuzzy on the wonderman fight about just HOW the whole thing began.
i get what you're saying johnr, but thor rarely demonstrates any actual 'combat speed'. he can move exceedingly fast in flight, but again, in fights, he rarely does so. in fact, glads has blitzed him on at least 2 seperate occasions, and mongoose danced all around him and even beat him down to the ground. thor caught him AFTER mongoose was distracted by spidey. imo there are too many examples of thor failing against speed, and not demonstrating superspeed for me to credit him with superspeed in combat. is it possible he COULD demonstrate it in this fight? sure. i just try to use the most consistent showings when i judge these fights, and consistently he does NOT use superspeed.
skill-wise is another area where he so rarely SHOWS skills. i too would like to see the scans of the cap incident. that might go a long ways in convincing me about his skills.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Thanks. 🙂Hulk's knockout happened on Wolverine & Hulk: Six Hours (last issue):
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2337/wolverinehits24vh.gifPlus it happened on Wolverine's first appearence too.
Sasquath (don't know the issue):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120-WolvieSasquatch.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120b-SasWolvieShoulder.jpgThing knocked him on the head, but it didn't happen on fight.
Strength and durability go to Thor, yes. And speed probably goes to Namor. Without Mjolnir, they would be pretty even, although Thor would still take the majority...
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Thanks. 🙂Hulk's knockout happened on Wolverine & Hulk: Six Hours (last issue):
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2337/wolverinehits24vh.gifPlus it happened on Wolverine's first appearence too.
Sasquath (don't know the issue):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120-WolvieSasquatch.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120b-SasWolvieShoulder.jpgThing knocked him on the head, but it didn't happen on fight.
Strength and durability go to Thor, yes. And speed probably goes to Namor. Without Mjolnir, they would be pretty even, although Thor would still take the majority...
cool. what happened in the sasquatch thing? 😕 did his hitting the tree ko him???
the thing one you're referring to is hilarious -- and i think i was actually the first person to post that scan!! people had a great laugh at it. alas, in that scan, wolverine was already stunned. bengy just finished him off . . .
anyway, before everyone starts doubting my sanity -- i believe thor would take the vast majority, but i went through this exercise just to show that it is not impossible wolvie could sneak out a win. he's beaten and hung with several big hitters. it is not beyond all possibilty that he gets in a couple claws in the right places to eak out maybe 1/10. not sure what jin would say, but that's how i see it playing out.
Originally posted by Soleran
c'mon now those Wolveirne senses that allow him to dodge lasers shoulda let him know Wonderman was coming................he couldn't really sneak up on Wolveirne now could he? 😉
which solidifies my point about dodging lazers and bullets being a nothing feat.. for everyone.. not just logan and spiderman...
Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine wasn't completely KOed in six hours..sasquatch jumped wolverine in an alley quite literally...
and I'm not sure if vindicator can count as entirely brute strength since he's surrounded by energy....
thing is close but like leo said wolvie was already groggy.
A synopsis on the events isn't required it wasn't PIS, it happened therfore similar type events could occur again.
Originally posted by Soleran
A synopsis on the events isn't required it wasn't PIS, it happened therfore similar type events could occur again.
it is required though.. wolverine's healing factor and the amount of punishment he can take has proven to differ when he's being jumped and when he's pissed and knows he's in a fight.. funny how a stronger version of sasquatch couldn't KO logan after landing much more blows than those two isn't it? wonder why.....
