Originally posted by cdtmThat's because it was a controlled detonation that's the only reason he survived. Michael can own him with a gesture otherwise.
Correct.He's created concepts like time, and put souls into demons just to send them to hell... Not to mention standing in the middle of Michael exploding.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It isn't that special spear or it would have been named as such. It was a spear used by the angels in battle far less powerful than Michael. It was stated Michael could beat them all with a gesture but a far weaker spear beat him with one attack.
Again, do you think it was made from wood?
They don't need to claim the spear is special, because it has nothing in common with a normal spear. Nothing else made in heaven was normal, like the Basanaos cards or various books. It wasn't made on Earth, from Earthly materials, or from any known material, so it's plausible for such instruments designed for war to be capable of hurting even the top angels, Lucifer and Michael.
Originally posted by cdtmNo, it wasn't an all powerful spear either and was far less powerful than Michael proving you don't have to be anywhere near as powerful to beat him.
Again, do you think it was made from wood?They don't need to claim the spear is special, because it has nothing in common with a normal spear. Nothing else made in heaven was normal, like the Basanaos cards or various books. It wasn't made on Earth, from Earthly materials, or from any known material, so it's plausible for such instruments designed for war to be capable of hurting even the top angels, Lucifer and Michael.
My point is the spear is far less powerful than Michael so far less powerful beings can hurt and beat him as well. This you can't argue with because it's a fact.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it wasn't an all powerful spear either and was far less powerful than Michael proving you don't have to be anywhere near as powerful to beat him.My point is the spear is far less powerful than Michael so far less powerful beings can hurt and beat him as well. This you can't argue with because it's a fact.
How can you call it less powerful? Based on what?
The fact is, it DID hurt Michael. Which proves it WAS powerful enough to hurt him.
Sure, Michael may have been powerful enough to wipe out a horde of angels armed with heaven weapons with a gesture, but that doesn't mean they can't hurt him if they're able to reach him before he wiped them out with his demiurgic power.
Michael and Lucifer Stomp. Michael probably blinks the second he sees the lanterns and the Battle is over. Even if a Heaven Spear could harm them, where would lanterns ever get one from (that is not even factoring in how would they even get close enough to be able to use it.
Another alternative is Lucifer convices Michael to let him fight the battle and Lucifer who is Billions of times smarter than the Lanters combined talks to them and tricks the lanterns into killing each other while the Brothers watch in amusement.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That's because it was a controlled detonation that's the only reason he survived. Michael can own him with a gesture otherwise.
The "controlled" part of the detonation was in reference to the fact that Lucifer would kill Michael outside of creation, detonating him himself, rather than just letting him die and then explode within the multiverse.
He still stood there, in the middle of the biggest explosion possible and then created a multiverse like it was nothing.
Originally posted by cdtmYes, it is powerful enough to hurt him but nowhere near as powerful as him which he could have ended the war with a gesture.
How can you call it less powerful? Based on what?The fact is, it DID hurt Michael. Which proves it WAS powerful enough to hurt him.
Sure, Michael may have been powerful enough to wipe out a horde of angels armed with heaven weapons with a gesture, but that doesn't mean they can't hurt him if they're able to reach him before he wiped them out with his demiurgic power.
So it proves without a shadow of a doubt that weaker beings can hurt him and beat him despite him being more powerful. I just wanted to prove his body is nowhere near as durable as it is powerful.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfishHe warped the energies in the creation process. That's what the controlled part meant outside of creation. Those energies were controlled there safely unlike if Michael himsel fwanted to hurt Lucy which he can do with a gesture.
The "controlled" part of the detonation was in reference to the fact that Lucifer would kill Michael outside of creation, detonating him himself, rather than just letting him die and then explode within the multiverse.He still stood there, in the middle of the biggest explosion possible and then created a multiverse like it was nothing.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That's because it was a controlled detonation that's the only reason he survived. Michael can own him with a gesture otherwise.
No, he survived because he's f'ing awesome.
But really, the "controlled" part of the detonation was doing it in the void, so that God's multiverse wouldn't be destroyed by the power. There was nothing shielding Lucifer from the blast, he just took it because he's boss.
Originally posted by CogitoI can tell you really like the character but no he can't tank Michael's energies like that only control them in this fashion/type of event. If he could easily tank Michael's blasts he would have won the initial war in which he lost, badly. by far less than this level of blast.
No, he survived because he's f'ing awesome.But really, the "controlled" part of the detonation was doing it in the void, so that God's multiverse wouldn't be destroyed by the power. There was nothing shielding Lucifer from the blast, he just took it because he's boss.
Yo.
Originally posted by tsscls
ZH Parallax was having a go at Spectre and Ion was a beast. I question why larfleeze and sinestro are here.
Lucifer and Michael take it, but its hard fought.
wrong Ion; the 1 thats pictured here was the "2.0" -version (who was depicted as being FAAAAAAAAAAARRR less powerful than his 1st iteration in the role.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Think spear by Sandolphon easily owning Michael who is far more powerful than Lucy. This team is done for.
so, basically yur saying that ZH-Para, Ion 2.0 and the other 2 can muster up the power to equal that of a heaven-created weapon..................yes??
sry, but I dont see that.
Tazer
Originally posted by TazerYes, without a doubt as that spear wasn't shown to be anything uber just a heaven spear. I mean I saw a demon tear through angels in the series as well and Fenris do the same. The angels weren't beyond anyone in terms of being injured even though these two were very powerful they were always very beatable.
Yo.wrong Ion; the 1 thats pictured here was the "2.0" -version (who was depicted as being FAAAAAAAAAAARRR less powerful than his 1st iteration in the role.
so, basically yur saying that ZH-Para, Ion 2.0 and the other 2 can muster up the power to equal that of a heaven-created weapon..................yes??
sry, but I dont see that.
Tazer
Originally posted by quanchi112
I can tell you really like the character but no he can't tank Michael's energies like that only control them in this fashion/type of event. If he could easily tank Michael's blasts he would have won the initial war in which he lost, badly. by far less than this level of blast.
Michael and Lucifer are defined by being created before creation. They are both capable of surviving a creation blast. It was shown on panel. I don't know where you're getting this idea that Lucifer didn't tank the blast, because it's shown right there on panel, and a couple panels before all the angels acknowledged that the blast would destroy the multiverse if it weren't done in the void.
You're just hatin', and making bullshit excuses.
Originally posted by CogitoMy opinion is ironcalde and supported by the comics. With key words like controlled detonation makes it perfectly clear he controlled the explosion and used those energies to create his own universe. If he didn't control the energies they wouldn't form his own universe so acting like it's the same thing as an attack from Michael which has defeated him is ridiculous. I'm right as rain.
Michael and Lucifer are defined by being created before creation. They are both capable of surviving a creation blast. It was shown on panel. I don't know where you're getting this idea that Lucifer didn't tank the blast, because it's shown right there on panel, and a couple panels before all the angels acknowledged that the blast would destroy the multiverse if it weren't done in the void.You're just hatin', and making bullshit excuses.
Originally posted by quanchi112
My opinion is ironcalde and supported by the comics. With key words like controlled detonation makes it perfectly clear he controlled the explosion and used those energies to create his own universe. If he didn't control the energies they wouldn't form his own universe so acting like it's the same thing as an attack from Michael which has defeated him is ridiculous. I'm right as rain.
That's ridiculous, and you're wrong as can be. Each has a single job that they were created for. Michael releases his energy, Lucifer shapes it.
I'm sorry I don't have time to provide scans, but look at issue 13.
Page 16:
Angel: "Reflect a moment, Michael is a vessel for the divine power. If he dies - if that vessel cracks - the worlds will be scoured clean of life. There will be nothing left."
Page 17:
Michael: "Ah! The void. Now I understand. You have taken me outside creation, a controlled detonation, then."
The controlled detonation was only taking him to the void, so that creation wouldn't be destroyed. Lucifer doesn't even shape the energy until later.
kbye
Yo.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, without a doubt as that spear wasn't shown to be anything uber just a heaven spear. I mean I saw a demon tear through angels in the series as well and Fenris do the same. The angels weren't beyond anyone in terms of being injured even though these two were very powerful they were always very beatable.
but I dont think any1 was trying to put forward the idea that they were unbeatable dude, and then theres the fact that Mike & Lucy arent yur generic type of angels, but reside on the far spectrum of powerful ones (their "top tier" if U will.)
bottom line: Mike getting taken down by Sandys spear from behind doesnt/shouldnt = them losing to this 4-man team.
Tazer
Originally posted by CogitoYes, meaning Lucy can't prevent the energies from destroying creation before he reshapes them. I've already made my point on this matter and you can't dispute michael wanting to attack lucy as easily defeating him with less than this which he controlled.
That's ridiculous, and you're wrong as can be. Each has a single job that they were created for. Michael releases his energy, Lucifer shapes it.I'm sorry I don't have time to provide scans, but look at issue 13.
Page 16:
Angel: "Reflect a moment, Michael is a vessel for the divine power. If he dies - if that vessel cracks - the worlds will be scoured clean of life. There will be nothing left."Page 17:
Michael: "Ah! The void. Now I understand. You have taken me outside creation, a controlled detonation, then."The controlled detonation was only taking him to the void, so that creation wouldn't be destroyed. Lucifer doesn't even shape the energy until later.
kbye
Originally posted by TazerI think so as this team is capable of far more power than the spear is capable of.
Yo.but I dont think any1 was trying to put forward the idea that they were unbeatable dude, and then theres the fact that Mike & Lucy arent yur generic type of angels, but reside on the far spectrum of powerful ones (their "top tier" if U will.)
bottom line: Mike getting taken down by Sandys spear from behind doesnt/shouldnt = them losing to this 4-man team.
Tazer
Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.wrong Ion; the 1 thats pictured here was the "2.0" -version (who was depicted as being FAAAAAAAAAAARRR less powerful than his 1st iteration in the role.
so, basically yur saying that ZH-Para, Ion 2.0 and the other 2 can muster up the power to equal that of a heaven-created weapon..................yes??
sry, but I dont see that.
Tazer
I want to use Ion 1, BTW.
Lmao @ people trying to argue that Lucifer only survived the big bang released from Michael because it was "controlled detonation." The detonation was only "controlled" in the sense that Lucifer removed Michael from the mainstream universe, and had him detonate in the void (subsequently saving all creation.) I mean, It's not like Lucifer had any extra power in the void, so why people think him tanking the big bang there, as opposed to within Yahweh's creation, would have affected his 'damage soak' is entirely beyond me..? Tbh, it's actually a pretty ridiculous/baseless line of 'logic'.
Fact: Lucifer removed Michael from Yahweh's creation so that he could ultimately release the aforementioned energies into the void.
Fact: Lucifer tanked the subsequent multiversal big bang released from Michael's person.
Fact: Lucifer effortlessly warped those multiversal energies into a physical creation.
Fact: Lucifer OR Michael would casually shit-stomp the Lanterns.