Starkiller and Luke versus Kun and Sidious

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Well, since there's no acceptable power levels or milestones for Force Usage, scale is important. From a common sense standpoint, exerting TK to say, hold together a space ship, lift one from a gravity well, or just eat a planet in the Force (and destroy the surface, ftw) implies cosmic levels of powers.

To put this into perspective, Polaris is shittons weaker than Magneto. No one ever assumes that Polaris will beat Magneto in combat. Also, she can't, because he'd smack the crap out of her without even getting up out of his chair.

From a logical standpoint, if A can use cosmic level Force powers repeatedly (and not just circumstantially) and B has only ever demonstrated small scale, extremely local powers, A appears greater than B and may very well beat B in combat.

Also, I don't get why Vader is ranked so high consistently by you. I think you're taking that midi-chlorian stat and applying it across the board as a universal. They didn't have midi-chlorians pre-PT. For all you know, Revan, Kun, and Nadd were pissing out more in a day than Anakin had in his entire body.

Yeah, yeah, I do understand the logic behind it. It's just, to me, it's harder to apply that as an argument in battles in which the opponent is a very power Force-user that may not have shown cosmic-level abilities, but still has the potential to defeat an individual who has.

1. What do you mean "they didn't have midi-chlorians pre-PT?" I rank Vader high because despite losing his limbs, he still ends up at least 80% of Sidious, who is arguably the strongest Sith of all time.

2. "He thought he was ready-and so the sheer severity of the opening blow took him by surprise. A simple double stroke, up and then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrists and shoulders and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides, hoping to keep him off his guard. For a moment, it worked.

"Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal...Their lightsabers danced, blurring and sweeping and shedding sparks in a way that would have been beautiful had their intent not been so deadly."

Rather than attempting to fight through the bulky and heavy armor, Vader fought with it, utilizing the armor's weight and his powerful prosthetics to provide his blows with incredible force, while relying on the main articulation points at the elbows and wrists for precision. With this new form, Vader regained some of his old agility, and his bladework was brutally effective. He never utilized anything less than a killing blow, and his swordplay demonstrated crispness and unpredictability, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he favored. Even the most simplistic moves contained enough strength to nearly disarm his opponents. - Wookiepedia

3. As "grossly inconsistent" TFU is, it now has to be taken into consideration (at least the novel). This has him somehow resisting Force Lightning and being able to overcome TK blows that should have destroyed the "huge breathing device on his chest."

4. In the Conclave at Kessel, he does remarkably well even if he just got into his suit. And later, he slays a resurrected Maul, a product of the "lightning fast standards of the PT."

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Also, I don't get why Vader is ranked so high consistently by you. I think you're taking that midi-chlorian stat and applying it across the board as a universal. They didn't have midi-chlorians pre-PT. For all you know, Revan, Kun, and Nadd were pissing out more in a day than Anakin had in his entire body.

Haha, no. Anakin is the Chosen One who has twice the potential as Sidious simmering in his cells. I know you don't rate Sidious as much as you probably should, but I doubt even you would argue that anyone else in the mythos had as high potential, and by extension midi-chlorian count, as twice that of Darth Sidious.

Erm, Vader doesn't have the power of Sidious though. If your figure is correct, he went from 200% Sidious to 80% Sidious. That's a considerable nerf and puts him well behind all top tier Jedi in the PT.

Anakin still had at least twice as much midi-chlorians as Sidious, as M-count is directly tied to potential in the Force. And no, M-count is per cell, so Anakins disfigurement did nothing to his potential. As Sidious actually tells him, his failure to rise to his potential has nothing to do with his injuries, but rather to do with his own mental deficiencies and psychological problems.

This is true.

But Anakin never realizes his potential.

This is likewise true.

But i like to **** my cat

Starkiller is a *****, Sidious rapes the **** out of him and calls it a day.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say team 1.

Team 2 has much better and cooler characters. But as far as sheer power team 1 has more.