Hitomi vs Tifa Lockhart
You've seen the fight in Dead Fantasy, but despite how awesome that was, it could have been much better without the handicaps (Tifa - the materia; Hitomi - Hayate and the Mugen Tenshin)
So let's settle this once and for all. The battle is inside Aerith's church. No materia, no ninja. One-on-One. Absolutely no outside interference. Can win only by KO.
Tifa should win. She dominated Loz in impressive fashion. Sure the pretty boy was just messing with her, but what Tifa did was hardcore.
Hitomi doesn't really have any feats, and yet she fought her way to third place in DOA3--which is not a small feat considering the contenders included Hayabusa, Hayate, Kasumi and Ayane(the franchise's top tiers) If you ask me she might have lost only to Hayate.
Would be an awesome match for sure.
Interesting to hear the perspective of someone who picks Tifa.
I would have elaborated on my post earlier, but it was 12 my time and I was tired.
Anyways, based on this scenario, I'm fairly confident that Hitomi would defeat Tifa. First of all, the 'handicaps' that are set in place are of almost no significance to Hitomi whatsoever. By the time Hayate and his ninja tribe had shown up, she had already bested Tifa. Being a martial artist who competes in one on ones, Hitomi has already proven her capabilities in singles competition. Fighting alone is what she's familiar with.
Tifa, on the other hand, would be entering uncharted territory without materia. Even with her magic, she still lost to Hitomi in Dead Fantasy, and once Hitomi gained materia the match became one sided. Even with the materia, Tifa was only able to keep pace with Hitomi, now you're expecting her to win without it all, when Hitomi gets no real handicap? Not to mention, Tifa seems like a fighter much better suited in a team match, as she rarely fights in one on ones - which leads me to another point.
One vs one is a format that's going to benefit Hitomi dramatically, especially if you're going to KO. Tifa hasn't actually won a one vs one whereas Hitomi has (confirmed) defeated Jann Lee twice, Lei Fang, and potentially Hayate. While Tifa put on some impressive displays, she still ultimately lost, and as far as I'm concerned it's substance over style. In terms of one on one feats, I would argue Hitomi has more than Tifa.
Moreover, In the recent Dead or Alive Dimensions, Hitomi is only ever shown in combat twice - against Ayane and Hayate. Her match with Ayane is interupted by Hayate, and her sparring session with Hayate isn't technically a full blown match. In a game that focuses around the ninja's entirely, Hitomi is the only character other than the ninja's to appear without a clearcut loss. To me, this combined with her 3rd place finish suggests that Hitomi is one of the top fighters in the Dead or Alive universe, while Tifa seems more like a middling character in her own. In a cross-over, I'd like to think that the playing field would be level, and a top character from one universe would be able to be a middle character from another.
If that's TL😄R, here's the cheap and cheerful version
- Hitomi has won 1 vs 1 matches, Tifa has not
- The handicaps don't really impact Hitomi at all and gimp Tifa
- Hitomi appears stronger in the DOA universe than Tifa in the FF*
- Hitomi's is more suited for 1 vs 1 while Tifa team battles.
* Not suggesting that Tifa is weak, however I would argue that Hitomi is more powerful in the DOA world then Tifa is in the FF.
Anyways, just my 2 cents.
I agree with what you said about Hitomi in the DOAverse. She seems to be the Paul/Hwoarang of DOA who can hang with the top tier ninjas the same way Paul/Hwoarang can hang with the Mishimas.
I do not get where you are getting all of the info that Tifa is handicapped because she has no access to materia. Sure she will not be able to cast magic, but that didn't stop her from giving Loz a run for his money before he used his haxx0rz speed to take her out. The cheap bastard uhuh
I think the fight would be a great one, but I give to Tifa simply because we have seen what she can do. Hitomi on the other hand has no "actual quantifiable" feats to back her up.
Tifa's feats in singles combat are pretty miserable. At least Hitomi's actually walked away victorious from most of her matches. Losing to Loz in an impressive fashion still does not equate to a feat in my opinion xD
The handicap hinders Tifa significantly more than it does Hitomi. That's what I was getting at. Hitomi doesn't care that Hayate isn't there, while Tifa may miss not being able to cast that big boom spell. I guess it's the whole "you don't know what you have until it's gone" route of thinking.
As far as feats, I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for from Hitomi. She's been successful at pretty much everything she's ever done. She's beaten a guy who punches out dinosaurs, is her dojo's best student, and in her recent bio, they made a note claiming that she was as strong as 'large men'. I've been told that in the Japanese culture it's a big feat for a woman to have strength comparable to men, but that could be some misinformation I was given (if so correct me of my ignorance)
But in this scenario, I don't see Tifa beating Hitomi. It just caters to Hitomi too much and is in a format that Tifa has never been successful in.
Originally posted by Cyner
the only problem with all that Angry, is that none of it is featsAs much as I love Hitomi, she has no real feats
...
So you're counter argument to everything is that Hitomi has no 'feats'? That's pretty flimsy.
When you factor in the scenario, the characters successes and their overall ability, Hitomi takes this. Until someone can actually build a solid case as to why Tifa should win, I'm not really seeing it. Right now, all I've heard is "Hitomi has no feats", which doesn't mean anything considering that I've actually outlined a bunch that people either overlook or don't acknowledge.
How people just seem to feel that Tifa, despite losing all her one on ones, being gimped by lack of materia, unfamiliar with fighting alone, and having no real one on one "feats" of her own can win this is beyond me.
Hitomi's "feats" are more than enough to beat Tifa in a cross-over.
I actually used the same argument Angry Worm presents here (minus the Dead Fantasy stuff) years ago in the Hitomi vs Asuka thread.
The problem is quantifiability. Tifa's fight with Loz paints a clearer picture of her abilities than Hitomi's fights do; naturally, Tifa's feat is given the nod in a debate.
It's fine to believe it on a personal level, but it's hard to argue for Hitomi against non-DOA characters. Hitomi still has several attributes that are mysteries to us. We don't know the extent of her speed and strength. We can only speculate at her durability because of her win over Jann Lee.
That's why I wondered if we were using the Dead Fantasy interpretations of the characters. Hitomi clearly had the upper hand in that fight.
If we're just going with canon material, then I agree with general consensus. Tifa wins.
I've read the Asuka thread. It was interesting.
The problem with Tifa though is that she has done nothing but lose in singles matches. That to me suggests that she lacks the abilities to get the job done on her own. RPG universes tend to be flushed out more then fighters, so it's only natural for people to see everything that Tifa can do while Hitomi remains shrouded.
It's actually pretty easy to argue why Hitomi would be put over Tifa. We know she's strong enough to be competitive with the best of the DOA Universe. To me though, in a cross-over you need to measure the characters accomplishments in their respective universe and measure how it stands up there.
But eh, Tifa is more popular so naturally more people are going to think she should win, even if it isn't the case.
You make it look like Tifa's loss against Loz is a bad thing for her. Loz is not a pushover. The guy is strong enough to break trees with his fists(something Jann Lee has done) and is incredibly fast. Almost too fast for Cloud himself to react. Loz is no wimp. He is a remnant of Sephiroth himself, that alone makes him top tier in the FFverse. He tried to beat Tifa in hand 2 hand and got his ass handed to him. Then he stunned Tifa with his weapon and his hack speed. Again...cheap bastard uhuh I do not base my selection on Tifa's popularity, because I actually like Hitomi more. I like her fighting style in DOA and her overall attitude(when she is not being a ditz and tripping around with her breakfast)
Originally posted by Zack Fair
You make it look like Tifa's loss against Loz is a bad thing for her.
In general, losing is bad.
Loz is not a pushover. The guy is strong enough to break trees with his fists(something Jann Lee has done) and is incredibly fast. Almost too fast for Cloud himself to react. Loz is no wimp. He is a remnant of Sephiroth himself, that alone makes him top tier in the FFverse.
But... where are his feats?!?!?! 😛
Seriously though, Loz is pretty good, but if you're comparing things he did, to things Jann Lee did, then Loz beats Tifa, and Hitomi beat Jann Lee...
I'm not saying that's how it works, but it's something to consider. Loz is probably more powerful in the FF world than Jann Lee is in the DOA one, but again, that goes back to my personal belief that a cross-over needs to evaluate the characters worth to their world to remove the 'imbalances' created by the different universes. That's why I say Hitomi's accomplishments in the DOA world make her better than Tifa in a one on one match.
He tried to beat Tifa in hand 2 hand and got his ass handed to him. Then he stunned Tifa with his weapon and his hack speed. Again...cheap bastard uhuh I do not base my selection on Tifa's popularity, because I actually like Hitomi more. I like her fighting style in DOA and her overall attitude(when she is not being a ditz and tripping around with her breakfast)
Again, I'm not trying to say Tifa is bad. But in a one on one fight, against someone whose a specialized fighter, and who has proven her worth in the past, she isn't going to win. The popularity comment was more of a side thing. I know I'm in the minority here, but it's because a lot of people aren't familiar with how good Hitomi actually is and are just Tifa crazy.
Feats can measure someones physical prowess, but in a one on one, Hitomi has the experience and knowledge advantage. That, and physically she's pretty awesome to.
Just my opinion. Not trying to be a pain haha 🙂
You're not being a pain. In fact you are being reasonable which is good. Most posters just go wild with their fanboy dreams and decline anything brought up against their claims, so you're okay in my book ....so far uhuh
Loz is actually the SHM with the most feats. Stuff I remember of the top of my head are:
1. Breaking the momentum of his bike with his weapon/fist and tossing the same motorcycle at Cloud with his legs
2. His speed is almost teleportation like--dunno if it is actual teleportation.
3. He can cause shockwaves by punching the ground with his fists
4. Destroy a massive tree with his fist.
There are probably more that is what I remember for now.
Considering Loz would absolutely crush every single Dead or Alive character in a fight short of Ryu Hayabusa wielding the True Dragon Sword or an equivelant (And even that is mostly based on hype), I don't really see why Tifa putting up a good fight against Loz but still losing is a good case for Hitomi.
Edit: Actually, Ryu Hayabusa with his sword and crap might be a good fight for Loz in general, upon remembering some of his showings.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I don't think so. I just happened to put the video in Hitomi's respect thread so I suppose that inspired Snafu.
Pretty much, yeah. Two of my CoDMW2 buddies were arguing over a game of Domination over who would win between the pair.
One of my buddies did point out that Tifa has some serious damage soak, if she survived Sephiroth's Masamune swing, let alone help save the world 3 times, if my memory is right.
Rules dictate that those who fight in wars most of the time hold the advantage. My buddy's words, not mine.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering Loz would absolutely crush every single Dead or Alive character in a fight short of Ryu Hayabusa wielding the True Dragon Sword or an equivelant (And even that is mostly based on hype), I don't really see why Tifa putting up a good fight against Loz but still losing is a good case for Hitomi.Edit: Actually, Ryu Hayabusa with his sword and crap might be a good fight for Loz in general, upon remembering some of his showings.
Am I to understand that losing is considered an accomplishment now? What kind of nonsense is that? lol
Loz's power doesn't really matter all that much. In a cross-over universe, I don't see Tifa being able to take down Hitomi. Remember, Hitomi doesn't need to kill Tifa, just KO her.
Hitomi has had quite a few trials in her life as well. Things haven't been all peaches for her either.