One of Tifa's best feats is merely surviving against Sephiroth, someone who is strong enough, fast enough and magically powerful enough to deal with multiple people of Tifa's caliber without breaking a sweat. Lets face it, it's not something Hitomi (or perhaps anyone in DOA) would be capable of, even if she was in in a group of three. 😛
If Dissidia counts then Tifa has also fought 1v1 against Sephy.
I remember reading Hitomi defeated Hayate somewhere. Could have been a bum source though.
It's pretty tough to make arguments as to why Tifa would win when all she's done is continuously lose in one on ones. The limit break argument or whatnot could work, however I was under the impression this was just a straight up martial arts fight.
Even if Tifa is stronger, Hitomi's the better fighter. More experienced, better record, more intelligent (at fighting) etc. I'd like to think that she'd be able to solve Tifa. The only thing going for Tifa is her exposure in cut scenes and movies, and even in that she still loses.
Really all I've heard is 'Well Loz is better than anything in the DOA Universe and Tifa fought him and lost so she's stronger than Hitomi because she was stylin as she did it'. I'm sure if Loz was toying with Hitomi, he could make her look impressive too before beating her based on that scenario. Not to mention, Tifa lost too, which technically means she's weaker than Loz as well.
I've also heard that 'Tifa's stronger than Hitomi physically' , which using on screen "feats" is pretty tough to argue that Tifa is physically awesome. However, people are discrediting Hitomi's ability to defeat more powerful opponents, which she has done in the past. At least to me that indicates that she's a very intelligent fighter who knows how to win.
That's how I see it. It may be tough to find feats for Hitomi, but the girl knows how to win, and proved herself to be as good as Ayane in DOA: Dimensions. To me, Tifa's best options aren't available in this match up due to the stipulations. Yes she's strong, but in one on ones she's never had much success. I guess it boils down to how good people think Hitomi is, since it's difficult to get an actual measure of her strength, but her achievements (in one on ones, since I don't want another 'Tifa saved the world' argument) seem to outshine Tifa.
That's how I see it, but that's just me.
Originally posted by MadMel
One of Tifa's best feats is merely surviving against Sephiroth, someone who is strong enough, fast enough and magically powerful enough to deal with multiple people of Tifa's caliber without breaking a sweat. Lets face it, it's not something Hitomi (or perhaps anyone in DOA) would be capable of, even if she was in in a group of three. 😛
If Dissidia counts then Tifa has also fought 1v1 against Sephy.
Like I said, Hitomi did fight with Ayane and match her ninjitsu.
The same Ayane who appears as a playable character in the Ninja Gaiden series with Ryu Hayabusa. That has to count for something. (And from a google search, I can see Ayane vs Tifa was treated like a pretty close match on these boards... Both had their supporters.)
Originally posted by AngryWorm1. And you have posted absolutely nothing in favor of Hitomi.
1. Congratulations, you posted a match that has Tifa losing in singles combat. I've seen that fight like, twenty times.Based on the on screen evidence, Tifa loses in a one vs one scenario. Yes, it's impressive, but the fact that Loz was toying with her for a majority of the fight and pretty much takes her out with two hits doesn't build a fantastic strong case as to how Tifa is stronger than Hitomi.
2. You seemed pretty quick to pass judgment on me, I was only returning the favor and 'speculating' an opinion. I'm not under rating any of the FF7 characters. In fact, if you read a lot of my posts you'd actually see that I go out of my way to state that I don't think they're weak. I think Tifa is out of her element in singles combat, and yes I do believe Hitomi is capable of beating her, but never do I say 'Tifa is a weak character.'
This scenario is heavily titled in Hitomi's favor - it isn't a knock on Tifa that she loses. Hitomi is by no means a weak character, losing to her isn't that unimaginable or at least shouldn't be. Tifa just struggles in singles environments, which is something that continues to be over looked.
I'm not discussing anything related to the universes since it's not especially relevant to this match up. If you're just going to say 'FF world is more powerful then DOA world" then that's your opinion - however, as stated before, it doesn't really have much of an implication on this match. It's literally just two martial artists squaring off, which takes a lot of any edge the FF world has away. The characters in DOA take a lot of insane bumps of their own - falling off bridges, waterfalls, etc. Grabbing onto a wall doesn't seem that fantastic in comparison.
3. Ya-huh.
Tifa pretty much gets taken out in one or two hits from Loz. Not to mention, she ultimately loses the fight. The whole fight with Loz isn't really a strong point for Tifa in this match, since all it does is discredit her ability to get the job done one on one. At least Hitomi's managed to beat several highly regarded DOA characters.
You're making speculation about the speeds that the fight are occurring at. Lets face it - we don't know how fast she was or wasn't going, and to compare an unknown to an unknown isn't a great argument for either side.
She 'manhandled' Loz because, as pointed out earlier, he wasn't taking her seriously for a majority of the fight. Hitomi also combats physically stronger opponents and comes out victorious as well.
I'm glad that Tifa can throw Cloud. Again, you're speculating about the speed.
All you've really shown was that a) Tifa is super strong and b) Tifa still sucks at one on ones. Physically, Hitomi is pretty impressive herself. Even if Tifa is physically stronger, which I still do not believe is the case, Hitomi's got the experience and success advantage heading into this match.
Do I have youtube videos of Hitomi shattering benches? No, I can't say as I do. However, Hitomi's defeated opponents who have some impressive feats of there own (Hayate). Therefore, she's clearly a capable fighter.
You seem to be repeating yourself from here on in. You're not looking at this objectively. All these 'feats' Tifa supposedly has, yet she always comes up short in singles combat. That to me tells more of a story than anything.
Your argument isn't especially credible either, I hate to point that out to you. You're entire argument is that "Tifa's stronger because I have a video that says so and the FF world is stronger and blah blah" isn't factoring the rest of the scenario. Looking at the people Hitomi's beaten should be evidence enough that she could handle Tifa, regardless of whether or not we see it. She's beaten Lei Fang, Jann Lee, and Hayate - which is more than we've ever seen Tifa accomplish on her own.
Tifa doesn't have materia access
Tifa has never won singles fightsHitomi's more experienced
Hitomi is a better fighter
Hitomi's actually won one on ones
Hitomi is one of the strongest Dead or Alive fightersI just can't get over the fact Tifa hasn't won a singles match against anyone. That to me is a huge sticking point. She could have the power advantage, but at the end of the day I don't see her defeating someone of Hitomi's caliber.
Hitomi's one on one feats are better, she's a more successful fighter, and she's less gimped by the scenario. Physically she's proven herself against Hayate and others in the DOA universe, and while it may not be on youtube, is one very powerful chick.
Loz was fighting back the entire time, the only real difference was the fact that he began using Haste.
2. You must think she is quite weak if you truly believe Hitomi can beat Tifa. Hitomi is a weak character in comparison, or rather, she has no showings to suggest she is near Tifa's level. Bridges and waterfalls? Tifa lands comfortably after falling hundreds to thousands of feet after throwing Cloud at Bahamut Sin.
3. Actually Loz attacked her a few times, many of said blows Tifa blocks or dodges. The fact that she can block an attack from Loz is another showing in her favor. Hitomi beating some characters much weaker than Loz without showing the actual feat isn't much of a showing.
Well I do know that the speeds in the fight demonstrated are considerably greater than what Hitomi has shown. 🙂
Hitomi has never fought anyone nearly as strong as Loz.
Only we can see the sonic boom. Not like supersonic speeds are special in Final Fantasy. Tifa has fought and beaten SOLDIER Second and First classes, whom are capable of easily blocking and dodging machine-gun fire. And she threw him thousands of feet upwards in the air, overpowering gravity as well. It's a better strength feat than what anyone in DoA has.
Denial is the only reason you could ever believe Hitomi is nearly as strong as Tifa. Or as fast or durable. Tifa did very well against Loz. Hitomi has fought people Tifa or Loz could casually crush.
She hasn't defeated Hayate, and Hayate himself isn't proven to be as powerful as Tifa. Stop.
She comes up short in singles combat against a foe far superior to anything Hitomi has faced.
Lei Fang, Jann Lee, and Hayate are not proven to be stronger than Tifa either. And once more, she didn't beat Hayate. My argument isn't credible? You're asserting that Hitomi is physically just as capable as Tifa based on nothing, short of denial. Tifa's feats in all the general physical areas, strength, speed, and durability, far eclipse Hitomi's, to the extent that Hitomi's fist would be hard-pressed to even injure Tifa. Tifa takes punches in the chin from Loz's gauntlet, that's a great deal more force than what Hitomi can physically output. Just because a child can beat up a child doesn't mean they could beat up even an average to somewhat bad UFC fighter.
Hitomi's more experienced? Tifa has fought things that could chew the entire DoA cast up and spit it out, with the exception of Ryu Hayabusa.
Better fighter? Based on what exactly? Her beating up people who are garbage compared to Tifa and who she has fought?
Hitomi has won one on ones against people who suck compared to Tifa.
Dead or Alive is weak.
Tifa's physical showings are better. She could lay Hitomi out with a punch. No matter Hitomi's alleged skill, at the end of the day Tifa is so physically superior based on showings it really doesn't matter.
You are asserting Hitomi wins based on flawed logic and hearsay. Stop.
I've posted plenty in favor of Hitomi - you just choose not to acknowledge it.
Yes, Loz was fighting, but as suggested here by others he was toying with Tifa for most of the fight. I still don't understand the point you're trying to prove here. Tifa lost a fight against someone more powerful than her. That's a negative feat it anything
I don't view Tifa as weak, but in a 1 vs 1 I think Hitomi would beat her quite handily, as would most high end fighting game characters in this provided scenario. Hitomi's strongest field is in 1vs1, trying to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
The whole falling off a waterfall was merely to show you that the DOA characters take pretty substantial bumps themselves. Compare it to Tifa lobbing Clod up into the air if you want, but it's much easier landing on your own power than it is being flung off a cliff.
Loz only really hit her once or twice. She evaded some of the blows, but she was still taken down rather easily. The difference between Hitomi and Tifa, is that Hitomi's actually beaten people. Weaker than Loz? Yeah, Jann Lee and Lei Fang are, but so is Tifa. Beating Loz isn't the objective, it's beating Tifa. Since Loz is more powerful then both of them it's not that important.
As mentioned above, Hitomi's proven to be as strong as Ayane (DOA: D story), a character who was apparently cited as being competitive against Tifa.
The speed thing is opinion.
Hitomi's fought Ayane, Hayate - maybe not as strong as Loz, but at least she can hang with the top tier talent, and she's actually won.
Denial is the only reason you could ever believe Tifa could beat Hitomi. She's a better fighter, more experienced, etc, etc. Tifa's strong yes, but so is Hitomi. You're not acknowledging anything she does as being significant. Tifa lost against Loz, who wasn't trying all that hard against her from what I've been told here. Suggesting Hitomi would get crushed by Loz is pretty unreasonable.
Hayate would rip Tifa apart in this particular scenario.
Tifa always comes up short in singles combat. Stop making excuses for her. It's just her character.
Your argument really isn't any more credible than mine. You've suggested that Loz is better than anyone in the DOA world, and that Tifa losing to him makes her amazing. Do you not see the flawed logic behind that? I'm not even arguing the physical abilities between the two anymore. The stronger fighter doesn't always win. Hitomi's more intelligent and knows how to win. Physically Hitomi is on par with Ayane - look her up in Ninja Gaiden if you must.
Suggesting Hitomi isn't even able to injure Tifa is just lolz. Ignoring the silly UFC comment.
Hitomi is more experienced - in this environment. She's more familiar with one on one scenarios and is better suited for this type of match - another thing you seem to keep over looking.
Hitomi's a better fighter based on her record and the fact she's pretty dangerous herself. Lei Fang might suck, but at least Hitomi has proven she can win.
Calling Dead or Alive weak is just face palm. You're still talking about the physical stuff? *skips*
You're assuming Tifa wins because she can jump high and get beat.
Hitomi's just as strong as Ayane. Hitomi's been compared to being incredibly strong in her biography as well (Although, you never actually see her display her true strength). Hitomi's also won before, Tifa never has. Hitomi's not gimped by lack of abilities, Tifa is. In a one on one, Hitomi is more than capable of thrashing Tifa. You're completely disregarding anything other than physical ability, a category which Tifa isn't even significantly better in. Hitomi's managed to win, she's been proven canonically strong by matching Ayane and finishing 3rd place. In a straight up fist fight Tifa would be out matched.
You are suggesting Tifa wins because she's slightly stronger and completely ignoring that Hitomi's got the edge in every other element that factors into the fight. Stop.
We're just repeating the same arguments. Ultimately it's a pointless debate. The two franchises are really hard to work with in a cross over because they are very different. In a straight up, no materia, no magic, etc. competition Hitomi will win because she's better suited for this kind of match.
I think they do.
Sephy proved to immune to just about everything anyone threw at him, true to his form. Even when Cloud beat him (twice), Sephy came back about five seconds later like nothing happened. With Ult, its was only first form Ultimecia, and that wasn't exactly on the same level as her universe busting final form. 😬
Either way, Tifa going one on one with either of them and surviving is an impressive feat.
Originally posted by MadMel
Ryu vs Cloud alone is considered 'debatable' around here, and Sephiroth has the best physical combat showings of ANY FF character.To answer your question - Ryu might be able to fight against Sephy for a limited time, but would ultimately lose.
Of course that's IMO.
Sephiroth is considered superior to Cloud? O_o
I find that surprising, considering Cloud is usually the anti Sephiroth character.. FF VII and Advent Children, for example.