Hitomi vs Tifa Lockhart

Originally posted by MadMel
About DF - I just think its funny that none of the ff villains are being used. Or even the higher tier heroes, like Bartz or Cecil. Monty must be a fan of the newer FF's.
That said, I'm a HUGE fan of his work, and I really like what he's been doing at RvB.

On topic, though. Tifa's fists are said to be as devastating as Cloud's sword in combat. Given Cloud's ridiculous sword feats in AC, that would say a lot about Tifa's strength alone.
Also, the lack of materia gives Tifa a bigger advantage, as materia actually decreases the user's physical attributes when they are equipped.

I don't think that the strength benefits of not having materia will outweigh the negatives of not having access too it.

I think Monty got it right with Hitomi winning. Tifa's out of her element in this match, and Hitom's just too good at one vs one combat.

The amount of materia Tifa had in DF would have cut her strength down to nearly a half what it really is.
If Dissidia counts in the match, then Tifa's wins via her limit break alone.

DF isn't cannon and isn't really being used in this scenario. Besides, Tifa seemed useless without her materia.

Pretty sure limit breaks aren't suppose to be included in the set up either, but that isn't my place to comment. I think it was a straight up martial arts match, which Hitomi would win.

Originally posted by MadMel
The amount of materia Tifa had in DF would have cut her strength down to nearly a half what it really is.

Not necessarily.

If she used Master Magic materia, she could have all the spells and zero stat penalties.

The rest could be support, independent, command, or summon materia.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
DF isn't cannon and isn't really being used in this scenario. Besides, Tifa seemed useless without her materia.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
Pretty sure limit breaks aren't suppose to be included in the set up either, but that isn't my place to comment. I think it was a straight up martial arts match, which Hitomi would win.

Originally posted by cdtm
Not necessarily.

If she used Master Magic materia, she could have all the spells and zero stat penalties.

The rest could be support, independent, command, or summon materia.

Originally posted by MadMel

She had about 12 materia on her person in DF, and she used about 6 different kinds of magic. Furthermore, when Hitomi stole her materia they both started using magic simultaneously. I doubt that Tifa had any master or summon materia.

The one green materia Hitomi picked up let her use quake, fire, and lightning.

Sounds like Master Magic to me.

When they showed all the materia on Tifa at the start of the fight, only four or five of them were green "magic" materia. A fairly negligible penalty, considering the elemental damage and advantages gained from blind and poison.

So Tifa had a master magic and several other magic materia?
Either way, its not canon, so it doesn't make much difference.

Originally posted by MadMel
So Tifa had a master magic and several other magic materia?
Either way, its not canon, so it doesn't make much difference.

The other magic materia could be for elemental damage purposes.

Or, she had multiple master magics.

Which makes sense in the Dead Fantasy-verse, where you could lose individual materia mid battle.

That's where I draw the line. If you could lose materia just by being kicked in the head, Sephiroth would have won in FF7... Easily... In a number of situations. 😛

Tifa wasn't useless without materia. She was just unable to adapt to Hitomi's change of style. uhuh

Hitomi wins because she's a better character.

Subjective.

But true.

I disagree. Tifa has the better development as a character and is more fleshed out IMO.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
I disagree. Tifa has the better development as a character and is more fleshed out IMO.

Exactly.

Hitomi is great, but to claim any KOF character is more fleshed out than any FF character is false.

More development and being fleshed out doesn't necessarily mean better 😛

"More development and being fleshed out doesn't necessarily mean better. 😛"

That's usually exactly what it means.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
1. Interestingly enough, you're doing the exact same thing. You're claiming Tifa is better without any substance to back it up. This argument is just pointless banter and completely non-costructive at this point.

2. I played FF7. It was okay I guess. I'm guessing you have and are an FF fan, which is fine. But I've noticed that franchise fans tend to overrate their characters. I do the same with characters I'm passionate about, but have since started looking more objectively. Being a fan of both Hitomi and Tifa, I'm pretty familiar with what both are capable of. Tifa is fantastic a lot of things, unfortunately, Hitomi is better than her when it comes to using fists.

Anyways, I read up to 'black materia' and stopped, since materia isn't available in this scenario thus making the rest of the paragraph of non-interest to me. This isn't about universe vs. universe, that's a completely different debate. This is Hitomi vs Tifa. You're not looking at this objectively for the scenario, you're looking at the 'bigger picture'.

3. See argument 1.

4. Yeah sure I guess if you ignore that evidence suggests Tifa is superior in every physical way, skill being the only possible area Hitomi outshines her, and even that is not really provable.

4. It's pretty probable, and Hitomi is physically just as capable as Tifa. Read the comments on the Dead Fantasy videos and you'll find that many people agree with that statement.

Look, I'm not trying to be crude, but a lot of the 'Well the FF universe is stronger so therefore Tifa wins' argument doesn't hold up that well, at least with me. Tifa's a great fighter, but not in 1 vs 1. She's lost everytime (I don't care how powerful Loz is, she still lost), and she's use to fighting as a team. Physically they're both about the same, and trying to suggest one is more dominant than the other is fanboyism from both sides. Hitomi is more experienced in this field, which is pretty tough to argue.

In [B]this scenario, the odds are stacked in Hitomi's favor. Tifa just flat out doesn't win, and it's not because she's bad - it's because Hitomi's fighting under her terms, without handicap, and in a familiar zone. [/B]

Only I'm not. I'm using the fight between Tifa and Loz as evidence, do you want me to post it?

YouTube video

Based on this, actual on-screen evidence, Tifa is superior, will highlight why later in my post.

2. You can guess to whatever you want, but frankly, I'm not really a "fan" of Final Fantasy, and not really VII in particular. Please don't attempt to discredit me by stating that as a FFVII fan I overrate them, I don't, you simply underrate them.

Maybe if you had read the rest you would have noticed that not everything was materia-related. You claimed that people are assuming that FFVII is the stronger verse, I simply stated what is fact, it's thought of as stronger because it is.

3. Uhuh.

We see Tifa take a direct punch in the face from Loz's gauntlet and continue fighting. Hitomi has no durability feat to compare.

We see Tifa react mid-air and bracing herself to land without injury on a wall after being thrown by Loz, due to how the flower's reacted after she hit the wall, I am pretty sure that means she was thrown at supersonic speeds (I think? Admittedly am struggling to remember what that effect means). But regardless, is a better speed and durability feat than what Hitomi has.

We see her at several points manhandle Loz, and while Loz is physically stronger, it still demonstrates the amount of strength she can exert on a human-sized opponent. Oh and she casually shatters the bench thrown at her by Loz.

Then of course there is this:

YouTube video

Her strength feat at 2:08 is superior to anything Hitomi has shown, throwing Cloud thousands of feet above her at supersonic speeds to attack Bahamut Sin.

Tifa is stronger, faster, and more durable, as I have shown.

4. Physically Hitomi is not near as capable of Tifa. Prove up or shut up. I give not a single shit what some person on Youtube (There has never been a more wretched hive of scum and villainy) said in the comments.

Physically, Tifa is far superior. Tifa has held her own against opponents that would casually and effortlessly snap Hitomi in half (Loz). This is based on objective evidence I have posted. If you have no counter to this evidence to prove your own case, your argument is not a credible one. Tifa fights in teams more often, sure... But she still fights opponents that would crush Hitomi even if Hitomi had help from anyone not named Ryu Hayabusa in DoA. Also notice Tifa had no Materia against Loz.

Tifa's strength feats are better, her speed feats are better, her durability feats are better, physically she is better.

It means she's more in depth and her character has been more explored. That has nothing to do with how "good" they are.

1. Congratulations, you posted a match that has Tifa losing in singles combat. I've seen that fight like, twenty times.

Based on the on screen evidence, Tifa loses in a one vs one scenario. Yes, it's impressive, but the fact that Loz was toying with her for a majority of the fight and pretty much takes her out with two hits doesn't build a fantastic strong case as to how Tifa is stronger than Hitomi.

2. You seemed pretty quick to pass judgment on me, I was only returning the favor and 'speculating' an opinion. I'm not under rating any of the FF7 characters. In fact, if you read a lot of my posts you'd actually see that I go out of my way to state that I don't think they're weak. I think Tifa is out of her element in singles combat, and yes I do believe Hitomi is capable of beating her, but never do I say 'Tifa is a weak character.'

This scenario is heavily titled in Hitomi's favor - it isn't a knock on Tifa that she loses. Hitomi is by no means a weak character, losing to her isn't that unimaginable or at least shouldn't be. Tifa just struggles in singles environments, which is something that continues to be over looked.

I'm not discussing anything related to the universes since it's not especially relevant to this match up. If you're just going to say 'FF world is more powerful then DOA world" then that's your opinion - however, as stated before, it doesn't really have much of an implication on this match. It's literally just two martial artists squaring off, which takes a lot of any edge the FF world has away. The characters in DOA take a lot of insane bumps of their own - falling off bridges, waterfalls, etc. Grabbing onto a wall doesn't seem that fantastic in comparison.

3. Ya-huh.

Tifa pretty much gets taken out in one or two hits from Loz. Not to mention, she ultimately loses the fight. The whole fight with Loz isn't really a strong point for Tifa in this match, since all it does is discredit her ability to get the job done one on one. At least Hitomi's managed to beat several highly regarded DOA characters.

You're making speculation about the speeds that the fight are occurring at. Lets face it - we don't know how fast she was or wasn't going, and to compare an unknown to an unknown isn't a great argument for either side.

She 'manhandled' Loz because, as pointed out earlier, he wasn't taking her seriously for a majority of the fight. Hitomi also combats physically stronger opponents and comes out victorious as well.

I'm glad that Tifa can throw Cloud. Again, you're speculating about the speed.

All you've really shown was that a) Tifa is super strong and b) Tifa still sucks at one on ones. Physically, Hitomi is pretty impressive herself. Even if Tifa is physically stronger, which I still do not believe is the case, Hitomi's got the experience and success advantage heading into this match.

Do I have youtube videos of Hitomi shattering benches? No, I can't say as I do. However, Hitomi's defeated opponents who have some impressive feats of there own (Hayate). Therefore, she's clearly a capable fighter.

You seem to be repeating yourself from here on in. You're not looking at this objectively. All these 'feats' Tifa supposedly has, yet she always comes up short in singles combat. That to me tells more of a story than anything.

Your argument isn't especially credible either, I hate to point that out to you. You're entire argument is that "Tifa's stronger because I have a video that says so and the FF world is stronger and blah blah" isn't factoring the rest of the scenario. Looking at the people Hitomi's beaten should be evidence enough that she could handle Tifa, regardless of whether or not we see it. She's beaten Lei Fang, Jann Lee, and Hayate - which is more than we've ever seen Tifa accomplish on her own.

Tifa doesn't have materia access
Tifa has never won singles fights

Hitomi's more experienced
Hitomi is a better fighter
Hitomi's actually won one on ones
Hitomi is one of the strongest Dead or Alive fighters

I just can't get over the fact Tifa hasn't won a singles match against anyone. That to me is a huge sticking point. She could have the power advantage, but at the end of the day I don't see her defeating someone of Hitomi's caliber.

Hitomi's one on one feats are better, she's a more successful fighter, and she's less gimped by the scenario. Physically she's proven herself against Hayate and others in the DOA universe, and while it may not be on youtube, is one very powerful chick.

Originally posted by NemeBro

Based on this, actual on-screen evidence, Tifa is superior, will highlight why later in my post.

Technically, without any actual feats we don't know how strong Hitomi really is..

That's the beauty of Dead Fantasy. The DOA characters can be however strong without contradicting anything, because there's nothing to contradict.. (Not that it matters anyways, any more than the Samurai Jack creator contradicting movie canon with his Clone Wars toon mattered, because of how awesome it was executed..)

Tifa wins because she has something to argue with.

That's the point several have tried to make here. You can't provide any real evidence that Hitomi wins, but you can provide evidence why Tifa wins. It's a litte unreasonable to give Hitomi the win.

For example, I could say that Tifa grabs Hitomi at max speed and tosses her into the sky. It's an argument I can make because Tifa has demonstrated she is capable of that. Hitomi hasn't proven she is capable of defending herself from that. Her victories are irrelevant because none of her opponents could replicate what Tifa did. Hitomi has never demonstrated that kind of speed or strength, while Tifa has. You can't really argue against it.

Also, when did Hitomi beat Hayate in canon?