Originally posted by truejediWhat's the point? Ive dissected his argument to the point where his posts are dominated by reaching and making things up. His only hope is to prolong this argument as a way to sidetrack the obvious.
In this case, you McBeefy, you need to respond to the post, not facepalm. Though LS has not responded by what he meant when he said blocking a dozen blaster bolts was a better feat than keeping a single raindrop from hitting bane during the course of a driving rain.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Considering he directly references sources quite as few times I doubt he's just making things up.
Technically spoken, he mostly quotes Sidious on Sidious own knowledge. That while our favorite Dark Lord obviously makes some probably false assumptions, as least when the knowledge Sadow is concerned, because:
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[*] Sadow left the holocron behind when escaping to Yavin 4, given that the thing was later found by Nadd and led him to the planet.
[*] Given that Sadow did continue his experiments on Yavin 4, it's virtually impossible for all of his knowledge to be stored within the holocron.
[*] Combining those facts, it's also completely impossible for Sidious, to accurately judge the extend of Sadow's knowledge, when said holocron is the only source for that knowledge. How should he know, whether Sadow shared 10, 50 or 100 percent of his knowledge, when he can just access a single source? Validation of that idea would be impossible.
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That aside: If that holocron was passed down from Sith Lord to Sith Lord over a time span of several millenia, how could Sidious even hope mastering anything contained within?
Originally posted by Borbarad
That aside: If that holocron was passed down from Sith Lord to Sith Lord over a time span of several millenia, how could Sidious even hope mastering anything contained within?
What do you mean by this? Because of the sheer amount the Sith would add to it over the years? Not all Sith can actually add anything to it I'd imagine. Alot of Sith often spend their time tracking down old knowledge rather than inventing their own or creating new Force techniques. I believe only a few have ever been said to be actively experimenting with the darkside in fact.
I haven't been following this debate between Lightsnake and my wayward disciple, but I'm not familiar with any quote from Palpatine suggesting that the information within the Telos Holocron or the original holocron obtained by Palpatine contains the entirety of Sadow's teachings. All the Emperor says on the matter is that Sadow left "detailed records" of his work in the aforementioned holocron and that the older Sith Lord was "far too generous" with his knowledge. Indeed, Sadow claims to teach the subject "the secrets of Sith alchemy" after he or she passes the test. And with regards to Palpatine's mastery of it, he knows enough to incorporate Sadow's teachings into The Creation of Monsters.
Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
I haven't been following this debate between Lightsnake and my wayward disciple, but I'm not familiar with any quote from Palpatine suggesting that the information within the Telos Holocron or the original holocron obtained by Palpatine contains the entirety of Sadow's teachings. All the Emperor says on the matter is that Sadow left "detailed records" of his work in the aforementioned holocron and that the older Sith Lord was "far too generous" with his knowledge. Indeed, Sadow claims to teach the subject "the secrets of Sith alchemy" after he or she passes the test. And with regards to Palpatine's mastery of it, he knows enough to incorporate Sadow's teachings into The Creation of Monsters.
That's all wonderful Gideon, but this debate is largely centered around the comparative powers of Sidious and Zannah as they relate to sith sorcery, not alchemy.
DS
That's all wonderful Gideon, but this debate is largely centered around the comparative powers of Sidious and Zannah as they relate to sith sorcery, not alchemy.
Me
I haven't been following this debate between Lightsnake and my wayward disciple,
Additionally, who's making a comparison between Sidious and Zannah with regards to alchemy? Certainly not me.
Originally posted by Turr_PhennirMy point is, nobody is questioning Sidious' knowledge on sith alchemy precisely because he had Sadow's holocron and some of his knowledge and claimed he would incorporate it into his Dark Side Compendium, according to Jedi vs. Sith.
Additionally, who's making a comparison between Sidious and Zannah with regards to alchemy? Certainly not me.
I did and I agree with it. Apparently the question is how much knowledge Sadow offered in his holocron, as well as how much of it Sidious absorbed. I'm one to think that unless otherwise stated, no holocron gatekeeper includes all of his knowledge in a holocron and that Nadd had the benefit of learning at the feet of Sadow with possibly greater success in terms of the quantity and quality of knowledge. That doesn't negate the fact that Palpatine was well versed in sith alchemy though.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I'm one to think that unless otherwise stated, no holocron gatekeeper includes all of his knowledge in a holocron
I disagree. Considering that Bane's life work was setting up the ROT order to be as powerful as it could be I highly doubt he at least would intentionally sabotage its knowledge base by leaving things out of his Holocron, as you suggested he'd do a few pages ago.
DS
That doesn't negate the fact that Palpatine was well versed in sith alchemy though.
Borbarad
how could Sidious even hope mastering anything contained within?
^ Then it seems you and Nai aren't on the same page. That was mostly was mostly to which I was responding, clarifying the extent of Sadow's knowledge that was in the Holocron and how much Sidious knew.
Originally posted by NephthysBane is one of the exceptions I am talking about and it's still unclear as to how much knowledge he left in there. My guess is, the knowledge largely includes his philosophical views on the Rule of Two and the failures of the previous generations of Sith.
I disagree. Considering that Bane's life work was setting up the ROT order to be as powerful as it could be I highly doubt he at least would intentionally sabotage its knowledge base by leaving things out of his Holocron, as you suggested he'd do a few pages ago.
^ Then it seems you and Nai aren't on the same page. That was mostly was mostly to which I was responding, clarifying the extent of Sadow's knowledge that was in the Holocron and how much Sidious knew.Bah, I read "everything" instead of "anything".
Anyways, Rosh Hoshanah time, will catch up in the morning as TOR downloads slowly (30 damn gigs).
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Bane is one of the exceptions I am talking about and it's still unclear as to how much knowledge he left in there. My guess is, the knowledge largely includes his philosophical views on the Rule of Two and the failures of the previous generations of Sith.
Doubtful that was all he put in there, unless his holocron could only hold a few gigs or somthing.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Doubtful that was all he put in there, unless his holocron could only hold a few gigs or somthing.
Bane is one of the exceptions I am talking about and it's still unclear as to how much knowledge he left in there. My guess is, the knowledge largely includes his philosophical views on the Rule of Two and the failures of the previous generations of Sith.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Bane is one of the exceptions I am talking about and it's still unclear as to how much knowledge he left in there. My guess is, the knowledge largely includes his philosophical views on the Rule of Two and the failures of the previous generations of Sith.
Well I don't see why you'd question how much knowledge he'd leave in it. He'd put everything he knows on the Force in there. Lightsaber combat too probably. Yeah he'd ramble philosophically but he wouldn't deprive his order of knowldge intentionally.