Battlezone: Voldemort (Quanchi) vs. Yoda (Vos)

This video is the duel which shows off many of Voldemort's powers which I have been alluding to in the different subheadings describing his various abilities.

I wanted to cover most of his powers before I posted this epic duel. At the beginning when Harry Potter decides to attack Voldemort instead of Bellatrix see how quickly his reactions are and how easily he disarms Harry Potter using his tk. Also take note of how his energy beams emanating from his wand are matching Dumbledore's and how you still see bolts of energy hitting the walls, all around Dumbledore, and all around Harry Potter damaging the environment as well. This means he can shoot beams at Yoda's light saber and still have outside beams of energy going all over the place which could strike Yoda.

How fast are his reactions? Harry is turning, clearly not aiming for a defenseless Bellatrix, with his wand arm lifting up. Of course Voldemort knows Harry is going to try to hit him with a spell. Not only was Voldemort prepared, but frankly, in my opinion, that wasn't an example of a quick reaction. Harry was startled that Voldemort was behind him, and he didn't even respond rapidly. Regular people have the reflexes to replicate that motion.

And those beams of energy are not going to strike Yoda. Do you see any of those bolts hitting Voldemort or Dumbledore? How can you assume, all of a sudden, that Yoda would be hit? Like how Voldemort has a wand, Yoda has a sword that specializes in dissipating and deflecting concentrated energy (see Obi-Wan/Mace Windu blocking Force Lightning with a lightsaber and Jedi returning blaster fire).

Furthermore, Yoda can use tutaminis without a lightsaber, meaning he has backup protection behind his initial defense to block any bolts from striking him. He isn't even struck by any of the tendrils of lightning that can emerge from Force Lightning/Storm.

Albus Dumbledore is also wielding the Elder Wand against Voldemort's own wand despite it being nowhere near as powerful and Albus being one of the greatest wizards of all time shows you just how formidable Lord Voldemort is.

I agree with you here. Voldemort is a formidable wizard. However, against an opponent that has precognition/heightened senses/superhuman reflexes/bionic speed, that power will not be as effective. Not to mention, this opponent in particular has absolute mastery over those skills.

So far, what I have noticed is that you explained all the spells that Voldemort has demonstrated in the movies. Yet, you have not elucidated on how these spells would actually work against somebody like Yoda.

You've established that Voldemort has tremendous firepower- something that I also acknowledged. But you have not established a way for Voldemort to overcome his human limitations against the Jedi Grand Master. You have also not established any way for Voldemort to counter Yoda’s telekinesis.

After they briefly exchange energy beams back and forth we then see Voldemort easily use fiendfyre in the form of a basilisk(giant snake). Note Voldemort's absolute control of this fire creature whose sole purpose is the destruction of Albus Dumbledore. Dumbledore sends the creature back at Voldemort using his Elder Wand but Voldemort easily dissipates the fire showing off incredibly fast reaction time in the heat of a battle with another great wizard of his caliber despite Dumbledore having the far more powerful wand. Please note Yoda can't ever send the fire creature back at Voldemort so this option is off the table.

Yoda cannot send the serpent back to Voldemort. But why would he want to? Yoda can easily dodge the snake. Not only that, but the spell will have adverse effects for Voldemort. With Fiendfyre, Voldemort leaves himself with no visibility of his opponent since that would be blocked by the flames. More or less, he will have no idea where his 2.1 foot "little, green friend" has moved. That would be an overwhelming disadvantage for the Dark Wizard.

Remember my above arguments against Fiendfyre as while. ^

We next see Albus Dumbledore use his wand to create a water bubble which temporarily traps Voldemort inside it. Voldemort still breaks free and begins channeling dark force/matter at Dumbledore. Dumbledore is resisting until Voldemort releases it against the entire landscape of the environment which also knocks Dumbledore down.

And Yoda wouldn't have even allowed himself to be sucked in by that water.

This "dark force" spell is a concentrated energy bolt that is no different in style and essence than Force Lightning. This is why Yoda won't be able to absorb or deflect Fiendfyre (apart from the reason that it's simply too large for him), but can for the Killing Curse. Therefore, it is something Yoda can block with either his hands or his lightsaber.

We see the shattered glass then uses by Voldemort's wand to attack Dumbledore who creates a kind of water shield which transforms all of the glass which touches this shield into harmless water. Voldemort then apparates and takes possession of Harry Potter. Dumbledore is helpless to stop this from taking place but Voldemort is repulsed by Harry's goodness (he symbolized everything Voldemort has rejected as in love/humanity). Voldemort then leaves his body and apparates out of there when the Ministry shows up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDtEdDJ7Vpg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v​=IDtEdDJ7Vpg&feature=related
www.youtube.com

A nice recap of the duel whose attacks would play no part in this fight.

We are in a neural setting, meaning Voldemort does not have a roomful of giant windows to shatter and blast at Yoda. And Voldemort does not have the capability of possessing Yoda LOL. And if he could, that would just be a major 'epic fail.' Yoda is an avatar of light, with incredible willpower; I'd like to see Voldemort try and break his mind.

Originally posted by quanchi112
7.Avada Kedavra is the last of the unforgivable curses which I purposely saved for last here. It's the killing curse which causes instant death when it hits its intended victim.

Voldemort kills a muggle in goblet of fire with this spell as he also kills some of his own followers in Deathly Hallows part 2. He also goes off when one of his horcruxes is stolen and just starts randomly killing anyone he felt was responsible who happened to be nearby.The curse is final and one hit is all you need to render death. Harry Potter escaped death due to the love protection spell by his mother Lilly Potter who gave her life to accomplish this form of protection. This is what saved Harry Potter as a baby from the killing curse.

Here is a video with a few examples of the curse in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NefehSiSbm0

This attack has sealed Yoda's doom.

Have you forgotten tutaminis? Magic and Force powers are assumed to be forms of energy. Unlike Fiendfyre, which is a flame incantation that isn't a concentrated energy bolt, Avada Kadavra has the same style & essence as Force Lightning. Like a majority of other spells in the Harry Potter universe, it comes off as a jet of light that 'beams' itself toward where it is aimed. Likewise, Force Lightning comes off as a jet of lightning that 'beams' itself toward where it is aimed. Therefore, Yoda will be block/dissipate/redirect Avada Kadavra, but not Fiendfyre.

Furthermore, Avada Kadavra, like other spells, can be avoided if one sidesteps away from the location where the attack was intended for.

Avada Kadavra seals Yoda's doom if it actually hits the Grand Master. The Jedi can block it with his lightsaber, his hands, or simply avoid it altogether (which is by far the easiest and most effective move and one that Yoda will likely take).

8.Miscellaneous combat related powers

This is something I want to kind of cover altogether in a broad sense of something he might have only done once or not something covered in detail like the killing curses or other prominent magical abilities in the films. Firstly there's the dark magic he releases like he first did in the Order of the Phoenix duel he had against Albus Dumbledore which he later let loose on the entire room breaking all the glass in the room. Voldemort also uses this dark force/matter against Harry Potter in the Deathly Hallows part 2. I once again can't put up any videos due to it being out presently still at the theatre but the power would definitely hurt Yoda. This attack doesn't seem likely to be fatal if just hit with a blast or so but it did destroy the concrete of the environment around Hogwarts when he was trying to hit Harry Potter with it.

Voldemort simply gathered the combined energy from his previous spell and Dumbledore's Protego and unleashed that force upon the glass. It wasn't a new spell in itself.

And Harry managed to run and jump away from that "dark force/matter." That should be enough to tell you that Yoda would no difficulty evading that spell.

As for the comment on the spell hurting Yoda, well the Grand Master's constitution is tremendously high.

Look at the conclusion to Yoda vs. Sidious:

Fall [5:22]

We see Yoda feeling the impact of an electrical explosion and then thrown hundreds of feet downward, bouncing off an repulsorpod, before crashing onto the ground. Yet, he's still able to rise as if he simply tripped. The only reason he didn't continue the battle was because Sidious had brought Clone reinforcements and Yoda realized how the changes and dynamism of the Sith for the last thousand years made it impossible to defeat them that day.

Holy quadra-post.

I also want to discuss him warding off Harry's spell in Goblet of Fire. Harry used the disarming spell also known as Expelliarmus (Disarming Charm). Harry was trying to disarm Voldemort but he casually blocked his spell with his hand in this scene.

Yes, but once again, we don't know if Voldemort can use a similar hand motion without a wand. And Harry, y'know, was just tortured by the Cruciatus Curse two seconds before, and on the ground in desperation. Honestly, Voldemort was expected to block that spell.
There was nothing impressive about it.

Voldemort also cuts Snape's throat in Deathly Hallows part 2 with a simple wave of his wand. That's very impressive considering how easily this can be accomplished with just a flick of his wrist. Yoda could be cut while being held off at bay by the fire basilisk. Think about the options Voldemort has here while employing his ranged combat which befits a wizard while Yoda himself seemed at a huge disadavantage trying to bridge the gap to Palpatine (Darth Sidious) in the senate room. Voldemort can also apparate and create more distance anytime he wants.

1. First of all, it's not explicitly shown (in the film) where Voldemort cut Snape.

2. Secondly, Snape is injured, but very much alive after that attack. It's Nagini who does the dirty work. Compare that to Yoda's simple hand wave, which could break Voldemort's spine.

3. Thirdly, that slashing move would be more impressive if Snape actually bothered to resist, which he didn't. Now all that we see is a Sectumsempra on a sitting duck that doesn't even kill its recipient.

4. Options? You have ignored Voldemort's personality in battle. You seem to think he'll cast Fiendfyre from the get-go, then spam-Apparate around the arena till he's behind Yoda, then cast Sectumsempra, and finally finish with an Avada Kadavra. All this while ignoring Yoda's precog/sense/speed.

If you read my opening argument, you would know that's not the dynamic of wizard duels and how Voldemort himself would approach an opponent with an intent to kill.

And I'll provide you with some "options" on how easy this duel could be for Yoda. If both opponents are coming in with basic knowledge of the other's abilities, then Yoda knows all he needs to do is disarm Voldemort. For all the options Voldemort has, Yoda can erase them with a simple Force Pull on the Elder Wand the moment both combatants begin fighting. You remember Order 66? Gree and a fellow Clone reveal their weapons and fire, but Yoda had killed them by that point. Similarly, Voldemort swishes his wind and starts his first spell, only to see his wand already out of his hand.

Without higher ground, and Yoda gunning forward to close the 200 feet distance between him and Voldemort, the Dark Wizard will be hard-pressed to maintain a safe distance from the Grand Master. Yoda would continuously put him on the defensive (which would be extremely uncomfortable for a heavily-offensive Voldemort). As soon as this battle begins, and Voldemort fires his expected killing stroke, if Yoda hadn't already disarmed his wand, he'll be in the air advancing fiercely to engage the Dark Wizard in close combat.

Voldemort has superb firepower, sure. But that won't mean anything if he can't keep up with an opponent who can see his move ahead of time and has bionic reflexes and pace to boot.

Apparition and creating space is Voldemort's only effective defense. Essentially, he would only be delaying the inevitable. Yoda won't delay using TK to disarm Voldemort's wand, and eliminating any distance between him and Dark Wizard. A single lightsaber slash (or throw, for that matter) that connects would significantly hamper Voldemort (who, unlike Yoda, doesn't have the constitution to fall hundreds of feet and still stand as if nothing happened).

Voldemort upon learning of Harry Potter's continued survival after having been lied to by Draco's mother about his death shot what appeared to be flames at Harry Potter before he quickly fled the immediate area.

Voldemot also turned his robes into a menacing, much longer choking type effect weapon of sorts and used this against Harry Potter in Deathly Hallows part 2.

I won't be discussing his parseltongue or mind reading abilities or anything I don't see as beneficial to a standard fight. I really don't want to debate anything I feel is unlikely or out of character for Voldemort to accomplish against Yoda here.

If Voldemort is forced to use his cloak as an attack against Yoda, then that indicates he's engaged the Grand Master is in close quarters, which more or less means the Dark Wizard is already fvcked.

You know, that scene with Voldemort blasting fire at Harry is indicative of how this battle would play out. Granted, Voldemort didn't have the greatest of shots, but Harry is able to avoid spells simply by running to the side. Dodging seems to be a specialty of Yoda, and one that will frustrate Voldemort to no end when he sees none of his spells connecting. Imagine that frustration while dealing with a 2.1 foot creature rushing forward with a menacing green blade in his hands.

BTW, I still haven't seen an argument made as to how Voldemort will plan to augment his reflexes and senses to match that of Yoda's.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.Precognition--For all it's vagueness and supposed reactionary super reflexes I've seen even the supposed greatest jedi Yoda fail to react to a simple force lightning blast.

In 30 or so seconds in Palpatine slowly raises his hands to fire the force lightning in what I'd call slower than even an above human athlete reaction time because he telegraphed what he was doing with his hands prior to the blast. That's awful considering

a)Vos calls him the greatest jedi ever
b)Palpatine (Darth Sidious) blatantly telegraphs his attack.
c)This was just a one on one similar attack in which Palpatine's blast seemed far slower than Voldemort's blasts with casual flicks of his wrist.

I see no reason that despite this awful reaction of Yoda to suggest he's always on top of Voldemort's attacks who keeps pouring them on effortlessly with varying effects other than a straight beam of harmful/destructive energy.

This is a faulty rebuttal, Quanchi:

1. Sidious and Yoda had not begun fighting. They were engaged in wordplay when Sidious decided to taunt Yoda by firing a casual Force Lightning smack into his face. It is assumed Yoda is combat-ready at the start of his battle against Voldemort.

2. The 'slower' reactions (with Yoda hit by Force Lightning and Sidious hit by Force Push) are included to draw out, in dramatic effect, the confrontation between the two greatest Force-sensitives up to that time.

3. This is certainly Yoda's lowest showing.

Couple minutes later you see him dodging an avalanche of Senate pods. When he returns to engage Sidious on the repulsorpod, he lands close to the ledge, a precarious position. Here Sidious bombards him with Force Storm (which had the power to blast Windu across Coruscant) at point-blank range. The attack knocks away Yoda's lightsaber, but the Grand Master has the precog/reflexes/speed/strength to erect a potent defense single-handed (before resorting to both hands) on an insecure position.

Therefore, what you saw earlier contradicts all the other examples I have shown of his incredible precog/senses/speed.

2.Force sense/Hostile Intentions

This greatly benefits Yoda from someone's intentions which gave him the drop on the two stormtroopers but won't aid him in any way since Voldemort won't be trying to lure him into a false sense of security here. The reason order 66 was mainly in play was due to the fact the troopers were far less formidable than the jedi so unless they had raw numbers they had to use the element of surprise in a war type situation to try to catch the more formidable jedi. Voldemort won't need the element of surprise here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY4SbBUH9hU&feature=youtu.be&t=1m59s

Okay, sure. The only method Voldemort has of possibly avoiding a lightsaber up his throat is by apparating as often as he can to maintain distance from Yoda.

However, as I mentioned in my opening argument, wizarding duels usually involve two opponents a short distance away pummeling spells at each other. Apparition, as I have discussed earlier, doesn't seem to be as viable of an option in such a contest (not to mention, sneak attacks won't be effective against Yoda). As a result, Voldemort may be unprepared to utilize it to such an extent. Furthermore, Voldemort's offensive nature (and arrogant personality) suggests he won't let himself to be overwhelmed and put on the defensive (which is what will happen, though) by an insignificant little creature.

Therefore, while Apparition is Voldemort's most crucial ability in this battle, he would have tremendous reservations using it to the degree that would be expected in this fight.

Finally, returning back to what you mentioned: Yoda can use Force Sense to detect ripples in the Force. Somebody like Voldemort, who is immersed in the Dark Side and is quite powerful, would be as easy to recognize as smelling putrid odor while standing next to a dumpster. Therefore, if Voldemort apparates behind Yoda, the Grand Master would have already anticipated his presence and would have 'seen' the next attack.

Originally posted by quanchi112
3. Force Speed

Despite Yoda's supposed above human jedi reactions he just stands there as Dooku slowly tk's that large structure to fall into the jedi. It took multiple seconds and he had to lodge it free while Yoda took a really long time to hold it steady and make sure it didn't harm either fallen jedi. This is obviously the reason Dooku flees but Yoda had more than enough time to garner a victory while the battle seemed pretty even with the slightest of advantages maybe in Yoda's favor. Later in rots Anakin easily bests Count Dooku after he gives into his rage and temporarily embraces the dark side. This also further shows Yoda's weakness to finish his opponent since both of his on screen fights ended in stalemates and someone else other than Yoda defeated both of his opponents.

1. All right, I am going to deviate and discuss what I call the "Jedi Point of View." George Lucas has stated the limitations of portraying Jedi and Sith with human actors since obviously none of them have actual superhuman reflexes and speed. As a result, what we see in the film are fights that are fast, but still at human level.

Therefore, this leads to the "Jedi POV." Basically, the fights depicted should be seen from the frame of reference of a Jedi. Essentially, the duels in the films would be a blur if we viewed it with human senses. However, by perceiving it as a Jedi (therefore on an equal level as the combatants), you see it as how it is depicted by the actors.

Do you understand what I am saying? Basically, what you might think as a "slow" move by Dooku is actually tremendously fast because you are viewing the duel from a Jedi POV.

2. You realize Dooku was one of the Order's finest Jedi (he could outspar Mace Windu) and that he tooled Obi-Wan and Anakin (both of whom are already highly regarded Jedi by this point) just prior to fighting Yoda. Secondly, Yoda did not wish to slay his "old Padawan". He had a personal connection with Dooku and it's obvious he wanted to capture, not kill, him to find out why he had fallen to the Dark Side. If Yoda intended on finishing Dooku, he definitely would have came in with a stronger assault. Skywalker, tapping into his Chosen One potential, and with an intent to kill was able to defeat Dooku that rapidly. It should not be held against Yoda if he couldn't finish a powerful opponent (one of the finest swordsmen in the Order) that he had no desire of killing. Even then, Dooku was forced to flee because Yoda was already overwhelming him.

3. Yoda had to break concentration to secure the pillar and completely ensure that it wouldn't have the chance of accidently landing or rolling onto Anakin or Obi-Wan. That is why it took that much time. Yoda won't have to worry about others in this fight.

4. And did you see the clips of Kenobi and Yoda infiltrating the Temple against the 501st or the Grand Master's beheading of Gree and his Clone trooper? Those are two occasions where he doesn't show weakness of not being able to finish his opponents.

5. How is it against Yoda that he couldn't finish Sidious? He was the one who dominated close combat to the degree that the Sith Lord had to flee to higher ground. If the two weren't fighting on a repulsorpod at the end, Yoda wouldn't have been thrown hundreds of feet downward. After that, it's the Grand Master's realization about the failure of the Jedi Order and the dynamism of the Sith, along with incoming Clone troopers, that forced him to retreat.

Now onto the second fight against Palpatine. This fight I already briefly touched up on in my previous post. Palpatine does take out the featless jedi masters quickly in succession before ultimately falling to Mace Windu. This doesn't bode well for Master Yoda since another jedi disarmed him and defeated him. Now after Palpatine stupidly allows Yoda the time to recover and regain himself giving a speech in which villains are known to make throughout all aspects of fiction despite having their opponent in a vulnerable position the fight takes place.

Wait what are you saying? Only reason why Sidious disarmed Yoda at the end was because the Grand Master had no traction on the Senate pod he had just landed upon and the Force Storm was unleashed at point-blank range. Still, Yoda 'beats' Sidious in that energy exchange.

And your second part makes no sense since the two weren't fighting yet.

Yoda does seem quite agile jumping from pod to pod after fighting Palpatine on one of them initially. My problem here with Yoda is he allows Palpatine to gain the higher ground when it's something that gives a jedi/sith the edge in a close battle with light sabers. The reason Anakin Skywalker (Lord Vader) was defeated by the lesser talented Obi Wan was due to Obi having the higher ground. For Yoda to allow Palpatine the higher ground was a crucial mistake.

This battle takes place in an arena, on neutral ground. Higher ground is irrelevant.

Besides, I don't hold it against Yoda if Sidious, the most powerful Sith, managed to get to higher ground. Fact remains that despite that disadvantage, Yoda was able to get back onto equal ground with Sidious and essentially 'win' the next sequence if it weren't for the fact they were fighting on a Senate pod that Yoda landed on the edge of.

Yoda seems slow also after he stops the pod and spins it around before sending it ultimately back in the direction of Palpatine. Yoda uses the ground lost and attention diverted by dodging the pod by Palpatine to establish equal ground on the same pod. Yoda can't even hold onto his light saber when under the duress of this attack before ultimately sending some of it's force back into Palpatine knocking them both around in which Yoda plummets to the bottom of the senate room effectively losing his chance to defeat this would be monarch.

Do you realize how much momentum that pod had before Yoda brought it to a complete standstill? He spun it and threw it back with greater speed (against gravity), which of course would take more time than flinging it downward.

I've more than enough discussed Yoda's absolutely phenomenal ability to withstand and redirect Palpatine's Force Lighting (that fired Windu a mile+ across Coruscant) at that range with that hazardous footing. How you manage to see this as a negative point for Yoda is beyond me.

All in all Yoda danced around again and was unable to best his opponent again despite the gravity of the situation and the reality Palpatine would usher in should he survive. Yoda failed despite the gravest of circumstances which backs up my initial post of him not doing enough to kill/defeat a worthy opponent.

No, Yoda understood halfway through the duel, before he spun back the repulsorpod, that Sith had changed and adapted for the better while the Jedi remained static under his leadership. This personal failure along with the shortcomings of the Jedi told Yoda that the Sith could not be defeated that day. This coupled with the arrival of Clone Troopers forced him to retreat.

Therefore, your argument that Yoda lacks a killer edge is moot (both against Dooku and against Sidious). Against Voldemort he won't have doubts, burdens, or sudden realizations, but rather a clear mind with a sole intention to kill.

4.Tk

His most impressive tk feats don't happen quickly at all. They take time he won't have in a battle with Voldemort. Sheer size really requires a lot more energy focus and puts more of a strain on Yoda.

Voldemort's tk against Harry Potter is quick indeed. Voldemort wasn't even initially going to attack Harry until Harry decided to turn his efforts against the Dark Lord formerly known as Tom Marvolo Riddle.

1. JHis TK feats took some time because they were on a much higher scale than anything Voldemort has ever done.

2. The elimination of the Royal Guards wasn't quick?

3. Jedi POV for the TK acts against Dooku and Sidious.

4. Voldemort's TK isn't quick at all (and it's nothing compared to Yoda's) and I've touched on this in an earlier post.

Originally posted by quanchi112
5. Force Valor

Yes, I will agree in Harry Potter we frequently see wizards miss their targets throughout the entire series. We however don't see Voldemort frequently miss his target. He hits Harry Potter with the Avada Kedavra in the Dark Forest. The reason Harry ultimately survives is due to the help he has albeit through his dead parent's spirits, Albus Dumbledore showing up in Order of the Phoenix, a love protection spell causing the Avada Kedavra to rebound onto him, or Voldemort unknowingly destroying a horcrux he unsuspecting made inside Harry Potter it's a given he's pretty accurate. Now he does miss Potter as he is evading him later on near and around Hogwarts but Potter defends himself against his beams of energy and breaks free from his cloak of strangulation to defeat Voldemort due to the Elder wand not being rightfully Voldemort's possession.

You just hurt your own argument in this paragraph. The only reason Voldemort didn't miss is because Harry was standing still and ready to die.

You yourself accept that Voldemort misses when Potter is "evading him later on." Unless you think Yoda is going to lean on his stick and do this:

He will be dodging, and dodging very well.

Yoda doesn't have Harry's breaks. He's someone who dies when he's hit by Avada Kedavra. I could see him getting temp ko'd by that force blast from Voldemort in Deathly Hallows part 2 which ko's Neville. I mean it's not unlikely considering Yoda was temp ko'd by one force lightning blast which doesn't kill anyone from which we have seen in any of the Star Wars films.

1. Considering Neville was standing defiantly at the center and ready to charge, it's pretty apparent why he was KO'd.

2. What prevented you from seeing the whole "Yoda is holding onto his cane and talking to Sidious, clearly not ready for battle and therefore unprepared for the blast " or "Plot device intended to draw out the confrontation" that was quite apparent in the scene?

3. He dies by Avada Kedavra if it hits him, which isn't going to happen.

6.Tutaminis

Yoda can redirect certain attacks of energy that he blocks with his hand in time but in no way, shape, or form can he redirect or block the Avada Kedavra, fiendfyre, Crucio, or the cutting Voldemort's wand has shown against Severus Snape.

Yoda can redirect force lightning but that's little league compared to Voldemort's abilities.

Magic is assumed as a form of energy. Tutaminis absorbs, dissipates, and/or redirects concentrated energy attacks, which are what most spells in Harry Potter are.

Your right that Yoda can't block/redirect Fiendfyre and Crucio because they are different in style and essence than Avada Kadavra. But the Killing Curse is similar to Force Lightning.

And Sidious's Force Storm, which can send a master Jedi soaring across Coruscant with tremendous propulsion, is now in a "little league." Please.

Even Dooku's Force Lightning, which he seemed to do rather casually in the clip I show below, had the ability to lift up and slam Anakin against the wall, forcing him out of the duel for several minutes. Yoda, later on, easily (not once troubled) gathers in his palms a stronger version of that Lightning and redirects it into a pure energy bolt.

Dooku's Lightning

Originally posted by quanchi112
Weaknesses

I don't see Voldemort's dependency on his wand as a weakness. Like any combatant who brings a weapon to the table it all comes down to how formidable they are wielding it and what has occurred in their own respective universes to cause them to be separated from their weapon. Yoda's had his weapon disarmed by energy blasts in the form of force lightning so it's definitely in the cards for Voldemort to disarm him. If Yoda is disarmed he's a sitting duck and can't block really Voldemort's Avada Kedavra which will oneshot him. Voldemort only lost hold of his wand one time and it was due to the impact of Harry's words which had a lot to do with Voldemort's panic and fear that Harry was still alive and resisting Voldemort's attempts to take his life which gave Harry the opportunity to grab a hold of Voldemort and then after a lengthy flight struggling with Harry Potter in which they both lost a hold of their wands.

1. This is flawed logic Quan. You are making it seem that just because Yoda lost his lightsaber once in combat, he is suddenly easy for Voldemort to disarm. And then you continue saying because Voldemort only lost his wand once to "X" reason, Yoda won't have the capability of disarming him in battle. Yoda's telekinesis could instantly disarm Voldemort or return his lightsaber to him should he lose it.

bash him against the ground, simultaneously breaking his spine and knocking him out.

2. "If Yoda is disarmed he's a sitting duck..." What? Yoda can't dodge or use tutaminis anymore if he loses his lightsaber? Yoda can't use TK to bash Voldemort against the ground, simultaneously breaking his spine and knocking him out? Or throw Voldemort across the arena? You still haven't shown me how Voldemort can counter Yoda's telekinesis.

3. You are assuming Voldemort can physically keep up with Yoda and be able to disarm the Grand Master and then have the time to hit him with the Killing Curse. However, this assumption is false since Voldemort hasn't shown any superhuman senses or reflexes.

Yoda has the ability to force pull back his weapon but failed to do so against Palpatine due to his ranged attacks which will be the same reason here. Yoda won't have the time to get back to his weapon just like he didn't against Palpatine.

Yoda's lightsaber fell hundreds of feet below. Furthermore, the more pressing matter was the bombardment of lightning that Sidious was unleashing that Yoda had to counter. The duel ended after the energy exchange. If the battle was on neutral ground, you can be sure he would have Force Pull-ed his lightsaber.

Here's where I disagree. Voldemort's obsession with killing someone right out of the gate like he had a hard on for it only had to do with Harry Potter. Harry Potter was the only one who resisted his killing curse and it was this person who stood in his way of being all-powerful in the eyes of all by wiping out the one black mark on his record. When Voldemort fought someone with exceptional skill in Dumbledore he didn't just try to Avada Kedavra him he used various spells/attacks to try to weaken/kill Dumbledore. I see this as the same kind of situation. If the chances comes up he will use the killing curse but against someone greatly skilled he will use his other talents and won't be obsessed with the the quick kill. He wanted Harry Potter dead so badly he couldn't wait and just wanted to use the killing curse on him but won't be that singe minded against a skilled opponent.

I don't know about you, but I'm certain that opening spell by Voldemort was Avada Kadavra. Harry Potter Wiki also seems to agree...

...which if true, would kill everything you said above.

And Voldemort has always been no-nonsense. Avada Kadavra is his trademark and most effective spell. We seem killing the Potters and Frank Bryce in the films with this curse. Voldemort isn't going to be bothered on weakening his opponent when he knows that if Avada Kadavra hits, he will win no matter the condition of his opponent.

As I previously pointed out human reactions have blasted Yoda prior to and he's stood there while very slow attacks have taken place showing he isn't above human reaction at all. Voldemort also has great reactions to block attacks from wands and to negate spells/their effects quickly and decisively against Dumbledore.

No, you haven't. You took the lowest showing of Yoda in a plot-drive sequence aimed to set up the titanic battle between Dark Lord of the Sith and Jedi Grand Master and a moment when he wasn't even in battle-mode as your only defense against Yoda's precognition, Force sense, and speed.

You have attempted to show that Yoda doesn't have superhuman reflexes and speed due to one singular instance; apart from that, you have no argument as to how Voldemort can counter Yoda's abilities and TK. You have proven Voldemort has firepower; an argument both you and I and everyone else is aware of. However, you haven't shown how this firepower would actually work against an opponent that can comfortably dodge (since spells in Harry Potter can be avoided if you just run to the side). You have tried to portray Voldemort as having fast reflexes based on his various interactions with Harry Potter, but all those moments show Harry in a compromised position and therefore don't come off as impressive showings.

Mistakes/Clarifications:

[B]1. This is flawed logic Quan. You are making it seem that just because Yoda lost his lightsaber once in combat, he is suddenly easy for Voldemort to disarm. And then you continue saying because Voldemort only lost his wand once to "X" reason, Yoda won't have the capability of disarming him in battle. Yoda's telekinesis could instantly disarm Voldemort or return his lightsaber to him should he lose it.

bash him against the ground, simultaneously breaking his spine and knocking him out.

2. "If Yoda is disarmed he's a sitting duck..." What? Yoda can't dodge or use tutaminis anymore if he loses his lightsaber? Yoda can't use TK to bash Voldemort against the ground, simultaneously breaking his spine and knocking him out? Or throw Voldemort across the arena? You still haven't shown me how Voldemort can counter Yoda's telekinesis.

All right, I am going to deviate and discuss what I call the "Jedi Point of View." George Lucas has stated the limitations of portraying Jedi and Sith with human actors since obviously none of them have actual superhuman reflexes and speed. As a result, what we see in the film are fights that are fast, but still at human level.

Let me clarify that last sentence. Sidious and Yoda already fight in an ultra-human human manner in ROTS. Yet, the Jedi POV argument is rational and stands for every other duel in the movies (Anakin vs. Obi-Wan; Windu vs. Sidious; Skywalker/Kenobi vs. Dooku). Therefore, by extension, Sidious vs. Yoda must have been EXCEPTIONALLY fast.

You just hurt your own argument in this paragraph. The only reason Voldemort didn't miss is because Harry was standing still and ready to die. You yourself accept that Voldemort misses when Potter is "evading him later on." Unless you think Yoda is going to lean on his stick and do this:

This is the video clip I meant to add:

Laugh!

I forgot this and it should be included in my last post but I forgot to copy and paste this as well. Prepare for a post blitzkrieg.

Yoda's characterization

I will delve into this more once I get into breaking down his responses post by post but Yoda has always been the epitome of a selfless jedi.

Yoda's problem is just the opposite from Voldemort's more aggressive approach. Yoda has had two opportunities to save countless lives but has failed in stopping both of his foes. Yoda knew stopping Dooku would prevent the clone wars but Dooku after stalemating Yoda fled the scene and Yoda was so slow to react while defending against his tk could do nothing to prevent it.

While flashy and quick he rarely has even grazed his opponent with a lightsaber those at least worthy opponents he has went up against on screen.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Oh! [1:44]

Did you mean the “Force” instead of a lightsaber as a form of energy? A lightsaber is not a “form” of energy; the weapon has a blade of pure plasma contained in a containment field. As Star Wars Databank states, the lightsaber has a “shaft of pure energy,” but itself is not a form of energy. It's this composition that allows lightsabers to diffuse concentrated energy (such as Force Lightning), and deflect blaster fire.

I don't know if you meant the Force or a lightsaber, but this isn’t a matter of contention because I understood what you were trying to say.

1. Please provide evidence of other examples of his telekinetic powers in the films. If you can find anything comparable to lifting and moving a multi-ton starfighter and redirecting an oncoming repulsorpod at breakneck speed, then you can say Voldemort is "exceptionally skilled" with telekinesis.

What you have 'rammed home' is that Voldemort's TK is severely not on par with that of Yoda's.

2. Harry Potter put zero resistance to Voldemort's "bow" attack. He was in a state of shock and absolutely frightened.

And loosening a sickle and causing Harry to slightly bend his back are not impressive examples of telekinesis. These are feats that average Jedi could easily replicate.

Since you are talking about backs, I'll once again reference Yoda and his removal of two elite Royal Guards just before his confrontation with Sidious. The guards are less than a foot away from the wall, yet Yoda's TK has such potency that, even with a casual flick of his hand, the impact of the guards upon the wall breaks their spines and completely knocks them out.

^ I would say that is a tad bit more impressive than slightly bending somebody's back.

Here is a video of the Darth Maul/Obi Wan fight and at around 4.25 minutes into the video we see Maul gain the edge over Obi through tk. Maul catches him off guard and then strikes not that he ever could just easily tk Obi into submission at any time he wanted to but rather needed to wait for the appropriate time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A4fN7FEzjc

Ok.

1. I hardly see the point about providing other examples of him using tk in the Harry Potter films and here's why. Yoda moving heavier objects with all of his attention and energy focused on them isn't something that's a plus in his favor. None of his tk object moving feats were done even remotely fast by sub par human standards. This is a battle with two opponents who have shown exceptional skill in battle along with the reflexes such as Voldemort deflecting attacks from other magical wands and their effects within a moments notice that could have killed/wounded him.

2.Voldemort's tk disarming of Harry's wand fits perfectly against his opponent here. It shows how quickly he can react to someone being aggressive to him while on the other side we saw Yoda fail to stop Palpatine's initial force lightning blast after he slowly raised his arms against Yoda. Neither Yoda nor Voldemort weigh a lot so showing them lift something epically huge won't determine anything although Voldemort moving that Giant by moving his hand shows he can move a tremendous amount of weight as well with little to no effort. Voldemort didn't need to concentrate he simply moved his hand and the Giant moved unlike Yoda who while moving heavy objects needs all of his focus and attention while taking a considerable amount of time in terms of a battle such as this.

3.Thirdly Yoda used tk in defense of himself with the pods/objects being hurled at him. Yoda wasn't offensively tossing pods around against Palpatine but instead dodging/defending himself while towards the end stopping one in mid flight and then focusing all his energy into sending it back at Palpatine in an offensive strike.

I think I have already backed up the notion in star wars tk is used only at crucial times against skilled opponents with their own tk it isn't a method in itself to destroy their opponents just a tool they call on when necessary and the moment is right.

2.I agree Harry was scared but was resisting Voldemort and later fought him. Voldemort was simply toying with him at this point. I mean we see later on in Order of the Phoenix Harry turn around to cheapshot Voldemort to see Voldemort easily tk his wand/weapon out of his hand with ease.

I didn't use the sickle as proof as to how impressive the tk is just another example of him using it. I tend to put more weight on the feats which are combat related such as disarming your opponent rather than tking something that weighs a considerable amount in a drawn out period of time.

Where do you get that it breaks the guards' backs and spines ? These guards are completely unprepared and caught off guard. I agree it kos them but to suggest it breaks their backs and spines with absolutely no proof in the movies is a bit of a stretch. In any event they were far.far, far below the skill of Yoda/Palpatine and Voldemort here. Most non jedi/sith characters pale in comparison to them so this is another example of this. It's like most skilled wizards being greater than any other creature in the Harry Potter verse.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I have acknowledged that Voldemort has a handful of spells that he knows. However, what are the ones he will actually use in a combat situation? Are you suggesting he plans on torturing Yoda to death?

Even if he does use the Cruciatus Curse, it will fail. As you stated, "you must verbally speak the incantation 'Crucio' while pointing your wand at the victim."

As I've established in my opening argument, Yoda moves at rapid speeds in all dimensions. Voldemort would have an extremely difficult time attempting to both speak & successfully aim the torture spell on a continuous blur.

Yes, the Imperius Curse would have [B]no effect on Yoda. With you, I agree on this matter.

1. First of all, I don't even see Voldemort when he is moving the stones. You don't know how much force it required him to slowly remove those objects. Secondly, even if it didn't require him difficulty, that’s only because the tomb was completely stationary. In a similar circumstance, Yoda lifts up an X-Wing submerged in a swamp and then directs it across the bog to solid ground. That was > than Voldemort’s feat.

2. How powerful that beam of light was isn't quantifiable. It was just a visually dazzling display that he releases to signify a moment of triumph.

He copies the Witch King of Angmar, who does a similar showing of power as he led the forces of Mordor out of Minas Morgul.

I can, on the other hand, quantify Sidious's Force Lightning:

http://youtu.be/n3DHDXAzoBA?t=3m34s [3:34]

Palpatine's Force Lightning had such force that it ejected Mace Windu at least a mile (horizontally) into the Coruscant skyline.

3. The exact nature of the Elder Wand is vague. It has switched masters countless times, indicating that the owner can clearly be beaten. In fact, Malfoy's disarming of Dumbledore is considered a 'victory.'

And of course the Elder Wand will resist Voldemort's attempts to control it! Voldemort is not its rightful master. In Deathly Hallows II, you see the Elder Wand cracking and resisting Voldemort's ownership, and also inflicting pain in the Dark Wizard's arm. It will follow but heavily oppose the Dark Wizard's bidding. He will never receive any power boost from it, thereby making it no stronger than a regular wand. In fact, he runs the risk of not only hurting himself but damaging the Elder Wand from overusage (which will definitely happen against an opponent of Yoda's caliber). [/B]

I think Voldemort's reaction times are fine enough to speak it quickly which he does against Harry Potter and to have the skill to locate Yoda. Now I know Yoda will be moving around but I reference back to Voldemort's flight feat of Daethly Hallows part 1 while during flight he pinpoints Harry Potter in the sky and has no problem hitting Harry had it not been for his wand stalemating his attack. They were flying at a very high speed far faster than Yoda can jump so I don't see the problem at all. Yoda also to me isn't even close to a blur he moves quickly and doesn't stay put for long but to me a blurry combat feat is something like what occurs in True Blood by the vampires.

Yeah, I just brought it up because I didn't want to leave any of the three unforgivable curses out not that I thought for a moment it would be successful against Yoda.

1.I never claimed he moved the stones I stated he broke them with pure force by way of magic/his wand. You can clearly see the stones crack which is due to Voldemort's offensive attack on the stone. I just mentioned it as another feat to show how impressive the force he can unleash from his wand even prior to acquiring the Elder wand by a simple motion. The stone is far more durable than Yoda as well.

2.Ok, that wasn't meant to be quantified but since you brought it up I will attempt to display the overall impressiveness of the Elder Wand in Voldemort's possession.

Voldemort's energy blast from his wand destroyed the protective barrier of Hogwarts. His entire army of deatheaters had previously tried to break through with the combined attacks of over a 100 wizards easy. Now Voldemort after losing another piece of his soul when another Horcrux was destroyed reacts immediately and blasts through the combined protective charms multiple Professors and Wizards who were defending Hogwarts school. That makes it perfectly clear how powerful the Elder Wand can be as opposed to the other wizards in the Harry Potter universe.

Here is an example of what the other deatheaters are capable of. It occurs a little over a minute in the video and shows them take down a massive bridge with little to no effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo-U5iOinM8

Now with regards to Palpatine's force blast of Windu out the window I will say this. Palpatine unloaded on him with a full fury and shot him out into gusting winds from a storm what was taking place at the time. I have seen his lightning resisted by Luke for a time and by Yoda as well. The lightning can be fatal when under a prolonged period of exposure to it but the feat only occurred due to Anakin's cheapshot behanding of Windu.

3.I never once stated the Elder wand makes you unbeatable I just stated it is the most powerful wand ever to be created in Harry Potter movies.

I disagree. The only reason it opposed him in the movie is because he directly opposed the rightful owner. Harry Potter isn't in this thread and the wand was surely capable of killing his own followers, critically cutting Snape, breaking through the combined enchantments of hogwarts school, koing Neville through sheer force, and destroying a Horcrux within Harry Potter.

Without opposing Harry Potter here the wand won't resist him.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yes, there is an instance of Voldemort using Apparition in combat against Harry in DH2. However, do you remember how effective it was? I'll tell you- it was absolutely useless. Potter was still able to veer around and respond with a spell of his own.

It makes me wonder just how effective this move is in a duel. You don't see Dumbledore or Voldemort making use of this method in their battle in the Ministry of Magic headquarters.

In the films, the maneuver only seems to work if your opponent has absolutely no anticipation of your approach. I speak of Bellatrix's killing of Sirius Black in Harry Potter😮rder of the Phoenix.

As I pointed out, Yoda has advanced precognition and Force Sense. If Potter, with normal senses, managed to produce a counter, then Yoda, blessed with superhuman reflexes, will have no chance of being surprised by an Apparition-sneak attack.

Yes, it's another of his fancy powers that will [B]serve him absolutely no good in combat. Voldemort is not going to switch into 'shadow flight mode' and start flapping around Yoda.

And "what accuracy" are you speaking of? Voldemort is closely cruising directly horizontal to Hagrid's motorcycle. From his frame of reference, he is essentially just aiming straight at a static target. Tell me how this "accuracy" will fare against the 'Tasmanian Devil'-like Jedi.

Aye, Fiendfyre is a very powerful spell that Voldemort has in his arsenal. However, it will not be a spell that he will open with. The Dark Wizard only used that spell after the initial stalemate and because Dumbledore was stationary. Voldemort saw the opportunity of sending the fiery serpent to finish him.

Against Yoda, an opponent who will certainly not remain fixed at a spot, Fiendfyre will lose potency since Voldemort may not know where to direct it except for in a general direction.

Yoda has shown the ability to jump multiple stories (see the Senate Chamber duel). Even if such a blaze is released near his position, he can easily move away (he is an arena/neutral location, after all) in any direction, even leaping over the afire snake. [/B]

I think it's just something rarely shown in battles like combat speed in True Blood. To me it's obvious it would be an advantage and throw your opponent off or like I said create the necessary distance you need against someone who has a lightsaber and is actively trying to kill you with it.

I see the killing of Sirius Black as similar to Yoda's tk of those unsuspecting Palpatine guards. They simply weren't ready for it and like a sucker punch in real life it will definitely affect you more when your guard is completely down.

Potter and most of the wizards in Harry Potter don't just have normal reactionary skill since most humans couldn't easily just without training just block someone else's offensive spell/attacks and would be caught off guard if someone teleported behind you. Harry Potter though young was battle tested and had run into Giant Arachnids, a Basilisk, other deatheaters, other opposing wizards, been taught and trained at school both officially and secretly. He's not some schlub someone gave a wand to last week and suddenly can react to the dark lord.

I hardly see him not knowing where to send the Basilisk as a serious defense against it. The snake is gigantic and it Yoda isn't fast enough to completely avoid it pursuing him. Yoda will have his hands busy while Voldemort sends it after him. The snake didn't ever lose it's potency and in Deathly Hallows 2 when the younger/more inexperienced wizards who used this spell but lacked the ability to control it the creatures still pursued everyone in the room. They were running they weren't actively controlling them and they didn't ever lose potency and didn't stop pursuing anyone. Voldemort only dissipated it after Dumbledore sent it back at him with razor sharp reflexes which set up the moment where Dumbledore encased him in the water bubble temporarily.

Yoda can leap all he wants it won't stop pursuing him. We also see Yoda barely dodging pods tossed his way despite being most likely several hundred feet away in the senate chamber. Yoda's nowhere near as quick even in his own battles to suggest he can avoid this giant snake for long.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
How fast are his reactions? Harry is turning, clearly not aiming for a defenseless Bellatrix, with his wand arm lifting up. Of course Voldemort knows Harry is going to try to hit him with a spell. Not only was Voldemort prepared, but frankly, in my opinion, that wasn't an example of a quick reaction. Harry was startled that Voldemort was behind him, and he didn't even respond rapidly. Regular people have the reflexes to replicate that motion.

And those beams of energy are not going to strike Yoda. Do you see any of those bolts hitting Voldemort or Dumbledore? How can you assume, all of a sudden, that Yoda would be hit? Like how Voldemort has a wand, Yoda has a sword that specializes in dissipating and deflecting concentrated energy (see Obi-Wan/Mace Windu blocking Force Lightning with a lightsaber and Jedi returning blaster fire).

Furthermore, Yoda can use tutaminis without a lightsaber, meaning he has backup protection behind his initial defense to block any bolts from striking him. He isn't even struck by any of the tendrils of lightning that can emerge from Force Lightning/Storm.

I agree with you here. Voldemort is a formidable wizard. However, against an opponent that has precognition/heightened senses/superhuman reflexes/bionic speed, that power will not be as effective. Not to mention, this opponent in particular has absolute mastery over those skills.

So far, what I have noticed is that you explained all the spells that Voldemort has demonstrated in the movies. Yet, you have not elucidated on how these spells would actually work against somebody like Yoda.

You've established that Voldemort has tremendous firepower- something that I also acknowledged. But you have not established a way for Voldemort to overcome his human limitations against the Jedi Grand Master. You have also not established any way for Voldemort to counter Yoda’s telekinesis.

Yoda cannot send the serpent back to Voldemort. But why would he want to? Yoda can easily dodge the snake. Not only that, but the spell will have [B]adverse effects for Voldemort. With Fiendfyre, Voldemort leaves himself with no visibility of his opponent since that would be blocked by the flames. More or less, he will have no idea where his 2.1 foot "little, green friend" has moved. That would be an overwhelming disadvantage for the Dark Wizard.

Remember my above arguments against Fiendfyre as while. ^

And Yoda wouldn't have even allowed himself to be sucked in by that water.

This "dark force" spell is a concentrated energy bolt that is no different in style and essence than Force Lightning. This is why Yoda won't be able to absorb or deflect Fiendfyre (apart from the reason that it's simply too large for him), but can for the Killing Curse. Therefore, it is something Yoda can block with either his hands or his lightsaber.

A nice recap of the duel whose attacks would play no part in this fight.

We are in a neural setting, meaning Voldemort does not have a roomful of giant windows to shatter and blast at Yoda. And Voldemort does not have the capability of possessing Yoda LOL. And if he could, that would just be a major 'epic fail.' Yoda is an avatar of light, with incredible willpower; I'd like to see Voldemort try and break his mind. [/B]

I said it's a possibility not a given the electric like beams could hit Yoda who is busy repelling Voldemort's offensive attack. Yes, deflecting a force lightning attack is in the cards but also losing your light saber in the process is also in the cards. We also see it wasn't easy for Windu to do so while Yoda outright failed to do so with his lightsaber. Once Yoda loses his lightsaber it's over since the Avada Kedavra is coming for him which he cannot redirect an attack that kills you upon contact. The movies have made that clear and even in ROTS we see Yoda get knocked back by the sheer force of Palpatine's lightning he partially redirects back onto him. Just sheer force alone he can't redirect which also went back into him effectively knocking him off of the pod.

Ok, Yoda's precog has failed him before and is vague at best. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse but for all his precog he wasn't even aware Palpatine was going to force lightning blast him at the start of their fight. This shows he can be hit and by a slow initial attack in Palpatine slowly raising his hands. So despite all the exaggeration of Yoda's abilities how he fights on film is vastly different with the examples I have given.

Voldemort's tremendous firepower can and will be used at a distance unlike Yoda who has no way of ending Voldemort without his lightsaber. Yoda has also been hit by attacks far less than human reactions so acting like he can't be hit by Voldemort when he was hit by force lightning multiple times and only narrowly avoided incoming flying pods coming from over a hundred feet away.

This is something I will never understand about the star wars faithful. Voldemort has tk of his own like Yoda. It's about whose is more effective in a combat situation against the other not a liftathon. For Yoda's great tk he's never easily killed someone by tk alone and did effectively land an attack of tk against Palpatine. Like most tk and even tk you've shown demonstrated by star wars characters it usually knocks their opponents back.

It also is quite evident despite Yoda being able to tk Palpatine to catch him off guard it's not an attack he can just use at will to defeat him. Palpatine has his own form of ranged attacks he uses such as force lightning and needs to hit Yoda with it when he's unprepared just like Yoda needs to catch Palpatine unprepared for it.

When Obi Wan uses tk against Grievous later when he catches up to him he uses it to bring a blaster over to him to win the fight. Obi couldn't simply tk his opponent here into submission and star wars has always made this clear or so I thought in every instance of using it in battle.

I will cite yet another example here to prove my point. In the Anakin(Darth Vader) battle against Obi Wan in ROTS we clearly see them both try a tk attack at the same time. Neither overpowers the other really instead they both are knocked far back due to their opponents tk. To me Anakin was obviously his superior which Obi rather admitted in ROTS and he still didn't flat out overpower Obi but instead they both suffered the effects of tk.

The 1:45 mark is when the tk stalemate occurs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI

Tk has always been catching your opponent off guard in the Harry Potter films as in the Star Wars films. Even when successful Yoda has only done so to knock his opponents backwards as has Darth Maul against Obi Wan, Obi and Anakin have against each other, and Obi Wan knocking Grievous back in ROTS.

I won't argue Voldemort apparating left and right because it's out of character and powerset arguing just like Yoda using tk over and over again is.

Yoda like the others doesn't ever keep going back to the well and even if he does catch Voldemort off guard he will go backwards but that's it. Yoda didn't suddenly rush Palpatine after doing so either and gave him the time to wield his lightsaber. I never have taken this tk stuff seriously as it's always been portrayed in the films as I have described it and it's out of character for Yoda or any Star Wars characters to keep suing it to defeat a skilled/opponent other than some random schlub Vader chokes out with it.

Yes, I agree he won't have access to the glass here but the sheer force of such an attack would put Yoda on his ass. That's why I brought it up to show when he releases all that matter/energy Yoda's hitting the deck.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Have you forgotten tutaminis? Magic and Force powers are assumed to be forms of energy. Unlike Fiendfyre, which is a flame incantation that isn't a concentrated energy bolt, Avada Kadavra has the same style & essence as Force Lightning. Like a majority of other spells in the Harry Potter universe, it comes off as a jet of light that 'beams' itself toward where it is aimed. Likewise, Force Lightning comes off as a jet of lightning that 'beams' itself toward where it is aimed. Therefore, Yoda will be block/dissipate/redirect Avada Kadavra, but not Fiendfyre.

Furthermore, Avada Kadavra, like other spells, can be avoided if one sidesteps away from the location where the attack was intended for.

Avada Kadavra seals Yoda's doom if it actually hits the Grand Master. The Jedi can block it with his lightsaber, his hands, or simply avoid it altogether (which is by far the easiest and most effective move and one that Yoda will likely take).

Voldemort simply gathered the combined energy from his previous spell and Dumbledore's Protego and unleashed that force upon the glass. It wasn't a new spell in itself.

And Harry managed to run and jump away from that "dark force/matter." That should be enough to tell you that Yoda would no difficulty evading that spell.

As for the comment on the spell hurting Yoda, well the Grand Master's constitution is tremendously high.

Look at the conclusion to Yoda vs. Sidious:

Fall [5:22]

We see Yoda feeling the impact of an electrical explosion and then thrown hundreds of feet downward, bouncing off an repulsorpod, before crashing onto the ground. Yet, he's still able to rise as if he simply tripped. The only reason he didn't continue the battle was because Sidious had brought Clone reinforcements and Yoda realized how the changes and dynamism of the Sith for the last thousand years made it impossible to defeat them that day.

Yes, I agree he can sidestep it or avoid it but redirect not a chance as I have just explained.

Yoda can block or dodge it but once he loses his saber he's done for. He can only avoid it for so long and the sheer onslaught Voldemort can bring forth at Yoda unarmed will end very quickly. hell, if Voldemort calls forth the snake I don't see Yoda lasting long. You also have to agree the Crucio Curse would render him defenseless without his saber and make him completely vulnerable. Voldemort can also cut him with a swipe of his wand as well which Yoda cannot block or redirect.

The dark energy from his own spell/etc. can still be used against Yoda. The sheer force would knock him down but it isn't a major contention anyways as knocking him over really doesn't prove he will win the fight on that alone just that he has the power necessary to keep him at bay and off balance while Yoda is fighting for his life.

Yes, the dark energy can be avoided but harry wasn't out in the open against Voldemort at that point and the environment initially played a factor.

Yes, I agree even if he's hit with the force of this attack it will just keep him off balance which Sidious seemed to effectively have accomplished throwing the pods at him.

I do also agree Yoda's opportunity to defeat Palpatine slipped through his grasp which is why he left. Palpatine also had the higher ground and would have held the advantage once again with all those pods at his disposal had Yoda continued the fight.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yes, but once again, we don't know if Voldemort can use a similar hand motion without a wand. And Harry, y'know, was just tortured by the Cruciatus Curse two seconds before, and on the ground in desperation. Honestly, Voldemort was expected to block that spell.
There was nothing impressive about it.

1. First of all, it's not explicitly shown (in the film) where Voldemort cut Snape.

2. Secondly, Snape is injured, but very much alive after that attack. It's Nagini who does the dirty work. Compare that to Yoda's simple hand wave, which could break Voldemort's spine.

3. Thirdly, that slashing move would be more impressive if Snape actually bothered to resist, which he didn't. Now all that we see is a Sectumsempra on a sitting duck that doesn't even kill its recipient.

4. Options? You [B]have ignored Voldemort's personality in battle. You seem to think he'll cast Fiendfyre from the get-go, then spam-Apparate around the arena till he's behind Yoda, then cast Sectumsempra, and finally finish with an Avada Kadavra. All this while ignoring Yoda's precog/sense/speed.

If you read my opening argument, you would know that's not the dynamic of wizard duels and how Voldemort himself would approach an opponent with an intent to kill.

And I'll provide you with some "options" on how easy this duel could be for Yoda. If both opponents are coming in with basic knowledge of the other's abilities, then Yoda knows all he needs to do is disarm Voldemort. For all the options Voldemort has, Yoda can erase them with a simple Force Pull on the Elder Wand the moment both combatants begin fighting. You remember Order 66? Gree and a fellow Clone reveal their weapons and fire, but Yoda had killed them by that point. Similarly, Voldemort swishes his wind and starts his first spell, only to see his wand already out of his hand.

Without higher ground, and Yoda gunning forward to close the 200 feet distance between him and Voldemort, the Dark Wizard will be hard-pressed to maintain a safe distance from the Grand Master. Yoda would continuously put him on the defensive (which would be extremely uncomfortable for a heavily-offensive Voldemort). As soon as this battle begins, and Voldemort fires his expected killing stroke, if Yoda hadn't already disarmed his wand, he'll be in the air advancing fiercely to engage the Dark Wizard in close combat.

Voldemort has superb firepower, sure. But that won't mean anything if he can't keep up with an opponent who can see his move ahead of time and has bionic reflexes and pace to boot.

Apparition and creating space is Voldemort's only effective defense. Essentially, he would only be delaying the inevitable. Yoda won't delay using TK to disarm Voldemort's wand, and eliminating any distance between him and Dark Wizard. A single lightsaber slash (or throw, for that matter) that connects would significantly hamper Voldemort (who, unlike Yoda, doesn't have the constitution to fall hundreds of feet and still stand as if nothing happened).

If Voldemort is forced to use his cloak as an attack against Yoda, then that indicates he's engaged the Grand Master is in close quarters, which more or less means the Dark Wizard is already fvcked.

You know, that scene with Voldemort blasting fire at Harry is indicative of how this battle would play out. Granted, Voldemort didn't have the greatest of shots, but Harry is able to avoid spells simply by running to the side. Dodging seems to be a specialty of Yoda, and one that will frustrate Voldemort to no end when he sees none of his spells connecting. Imagine that frustration while dealing with a 2.1 foot creature rushing forward with a menacing green blade in his hands.

BTW, I still haven't seen an argument made as to how Voldemort will plan to augment his reflexes and senses to match that of Yoda's. [/B]

Yes, Harry was tortured but had recovered from the effects of it and it in no way took away the effectiveness of the spell at all. This wasn't hinted it at all on screen.

1. Ok, I will grant you it isn't explicitly shown where he cut Snape but the fact is HE CUT SNAPE. So wherever his wand is aiming for will be cut. Yoda will have to avoid this seemingly quick attack because otherwise he will be gashed open like Snape was.

2. Snape is there helpless and Voldemort allows Nagini to take it from there. Snape was completely helpless and at Voldemort's mercy. The attack definitely left him in a defenseless state. Voldemort could have Avada Kedavara'd him at any time. Being the Dark Lord that he is he allowed his pet to finish the job.

You get all nitpicky and dispute Snape's throat being cut but despite no evidence at all being shown in the films pronounce Yoda as some spine destroyer. Yoda tk'd Palpatine and his spine and his health overall weren't affected in the slightest save the force of being tossed back.

3.Yoda can't resist being slashed. No more than he can resist the effects of Crucio if it hits him. The Sectumsempra spell was only known by Harry Potter and Snape since he had access to his diary. Furthermore we see Harry speak the words every time it is used and we hear no verbal incantations here nor can we determine if Voldemort even knew about the spell so it's unlikely he used it here but due to his powers just cut him with the wave of his wand.

Either way you want to look at it Voldemort does it without speaking the verbal words and can achieve this just as easily on Yoda.

4.No, I haven't ignored how he fights in character and am purposely trying to argue what's in character for him. He didn't start the battle against Dumbledore using the basilisk but did to resort to it pretty quickly in so based off of evidence let's say Yoda effectively blocks his energy attacks it's coming or could come right after since that's exactly how quickly Voldemort used it against Dumbledore on screen.

The other abilities are options has done on screen so they are still options he has on the table. I am not citing other characters' feats as his own but simply am piecing together his offensive attacks from the movies and laying them out there as options. I don't believe he will apparate all over the place as that's out of character but do think him doing so once or possibly twice is something he might do just like Yoda might use tk once or possibly twice in an attacking fashion.

Me taking attacks out of his combat history and him using them isn't out of character but if I had Voldemort aparating while creating basilisks, and firing the Avada Kedavara, and if that fails trying the cutting attack then this would be completely out of character and how a poster tries to steer the argument in his favor by powerset arguing.

I do remember Order 66 and them approaching him from behind while still believing they had the element of surprise on him. They didn't and Voldemort won't try to get closer to Yoda as they foolishly did. There were only two of them so Yoda reacting while they were under the misconception he was unaware of their motives isn't applicable here.

If Yoda was this badass with his tk he'd easily tk Palpatine's light saber out of his hand. No, he doesn't but instead just pushes him across the room the one time he caught him off guard. He won't be catching Voldemort off guard as Voldemort won't be giving a speech like Palpatine did right before he was hit with the attack.

I argue it consistently and just because we see Voldemort tk Harry's wand out of his hands that doesn't mean he can do it at will he needs to catch Harry off guard just like Yoda needs to catch those off guard he hits with tk.

Voldemort will have Yoda pressed right out of the gate with his energy blasts. Yoda will be hard pressed to gain the ground when he could send a basilisk after him after his initial blasts fail to hit him. Then Yoda has to worry about it and has to go on the defensive. I also don't see a problem with Voldemort apparating once since he has while in direct combat effectively re-establishing the distance between the two.

I've already pointed out far less speedier movements from Palpatine have caught Yoda off guard and hit him/or the effects have still hit Yoda as well despite his best efforts to completely redirect the force. Voldemort's quick wrist like movements are going to make it very difficult for Yoda who seems to struggle with force lightning.

Yoda has never disarmed an opposing/experienced jedi's lightsaber before nor has Voldemort ever been disarmed by an opposing wizard's tk. The likelihood of Yoda hitting him an attack will have the same effect on Voldemort as it did on Palpatine in the movies. It will knock him back. Unlike Yoda and his lack of disarming movie feats at least Voldemort has effectively disarmed someone through tk while Yoda's claims to fame are tking huge inanimate objects or force pushing someone.

Yes, a lightsaber throw is a risk maneuver. If Yoda missed or Voldemort wards it off with energy blasts or what not Yoda is effectively weaponless and is a sitting duck. Yoda also with a lightsaber struggled with warding off a force lightning attack with his saber so it won't be easily accomplished since Voldemort will be sending all kinds of hell at him and in quick succession.

I don't think he's screwed here due to the fact his dark robes will be effective if they grab a hold of Yoda but granted I don't see this as a likely option either as I believe Yoda will be dead before he ever gets this up close and personal.

Another example of Harry greatly benefiting from the environment and the sheer confusion of Voldemort. Voldemort had just experienced his greatest triumph and gloat over those who opposed him at the school to just see Harry Potter get up and scurry off before his eyes. Harry also quickly got behind something a wall I believe off memory and evade him for the time being. Yoda won't benefit from the environment of Hogwarts just like Voldemort won't benefit from the Ministry room.

How does Voldemort need to up his reflexes when far less in terms of movie time has hit Yoda and temp ko'd him. Slowly raising your hands against someone you know is going to kill you and blasting him isn't an impressive showing of precog. This is a legit showing of Yoda being caught by an obvious attack against a highly skilled opponent with a ranged attack similar to Voldemort. Voldemort has many more options than energy blasts though along with more abilities. If Yoda gets hit once with Avada Kedavra it's a kill shot.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
This is a faulty rebuttal, Quanchi:

1. Sidious and Yoda had not begun fighting. They were engaged in wordplay when Sidious decided to taunt Yoda by firing a casual Force Lightning smack into his face. It is assumed Yoda is combat-ready at the start of his battle against Voldemort.

2. The 'slower' reactions (with Yoda hit by Force Lightning and Sidious hit by Force Push) are included to draw out, in dramatic effect, the confrontation between the two greatest Force-sensitives up to that time.

3. This is certainly Yoda's lowest showing.

Couple minutes later you see him dodging an avalanche of Senate pods. When he returns to engage Sidious on the repulsorpod, he lands close to the ledge, a precarious position. Here Sidious bombards him with Force Storm (which had the power to blast Windu across Coruscant) at point-blank range. The attack knocks away Yoda's lightsaber, but the Grand Master has the precog/reflexes/speed/strength to erect a potent defense single-handed (before resorting to both hands) on an insecure position.

Therefore, what you saw earlier contradicts all the other examples I have shown of his incredible precog/senses/speed.

Okay, sure. The only method Voldemort has of possibly avoiding a lightsaber up his throat is by apparating as often as he can to maintain distance from Yoda.

However, as I mentioned in my opening argument, wizarding duels usually involve two opponents a short distance away pummeling spells at each other. Apparition, as I have discussed earlier, doesn't seem to be as viable of an option in such a contest (not to mention, sneak attacks won't be effective against Yoda). As a result, Voldemort may be unprepared to utilize it to such an extent. Furthermore, Voldemort's offensive nature (and arrogant personality) suggests he won't let himself to be overwhelmed and put on the defensive (which is what will happen, though) by an insignificant little creature.

Therefore, while Apparition is Voldemort's most crucial ability in this battle, he would have tremendous reservations using it to the degree that would be expected in this fight.

Finally, returning back to what you mentioned: Yoda can use Force Sense to detect ripples in the Force. Somebody like Voldemort, who is immersed in the Dark Side and is quite powerful, would be as easy to recognize as smelling putrid odor while standing next to a dumpster. Therefore, if Voldemort apparates behind Yoda, the Grand Master would have already anticipated his presence and would have 'seen' the next attack.

2.You can't have it both ways. Harry Potter surviving and dodging Voldemort's attacks are drawing out the epic confrontation between the two as well. I argue on what happens alone not the subjectivity how the director was trying to create a sense of lasting drama.

3.Yes, but Yoda only has two showings against two highly skilled opponents. One can't ignore how pitiful and how obvious what Palpatine was planning on doing with his hands. Did Yoda honestly think he was going to clap or give him the finger ?

Yes, he dodges the senate pods but this shouldn't even be an issue since his precog is supposedly this good and factoring in the distance between the pods from Yoda. Yoda was fighting for his life he wasn't in control at all. When Voldemort was fighting against Dumbledore who sported the most powerful wand in existence he still looked firmly in control while Dumbledore looked like he was trying to keep up.

In an earlier post I explained the weather and the wind also had something to do with it as well as the duration under the force lightning Windu experienced. Palpatine hit Yoda with force lightning at the start of their fight and didn't go back more than twenty feet let alone the hundred or so feet you're claiming was all due to force lightning. It shows Yoda needs proper leverage to wield off energy attacks and despite having it where he wanted it this still didn't save his lightsaber from falling.

It doesn't contradict anything these aren't simulations these are characters who can fall victim to certain attacks and repel certain ones. It's like saying the new England Patriots defeat by The jets in the playoffs shouldn't stand since prior to New England routed them. Yoda while incredibly skilled can be hit and has been hit. He was hit by two force lightning attacks and was unsuccessful in critically injuring Palpatine.

I don't see Voldemort as being the one who will be pressed here I see him easily overwhelming Yoda with his ranged attacks. But he does have the option of apparating which will create distance provided Yoda closes in on him.

Voldemort apparated against Harry Potter so why won't he apparate here ? I mean he's already done so on film and he isn't fighting a wizard anyways so what he does against wizards really carries no weight against what he would do against a jedi.

Voldemort may be arrogant but he is indeed intelligent and suffered no shortcomings against Dumbledore. He fought intelligently and for the kill against Dumbledore without any of these supposed shortcomings coming into play.

I only see him needing to use it once at most if that as this fight should be over pretty quickly.

You can't have it both ways. You just attributed the dark side type aspect of himself giving Voldemort away but it also clouds the Force. It also failed Yoda when Palpatine started off the battle he obviously raised his hands to attack him. If Yoda can't see this blatant attack coming don't presume he will be all over Voldemort's next move.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
1. All right, I am going to deviate and discuss what I call the "Jedi Point of View." George Lucas has stated the limitations of portraying Jedi and Sith with human actors since obviously none of them have actual superhuman reflexes and speed. As a result, what we see in the film are fights that are fast, but still at human level.

Therefore, this leads to the "Jedi POV." Basically, the fights depicted should be seen from the frame of reference of a Jedi. Essentially, the duels in the films would be a blur if we viewed it with human senses. However, by perceiving it as a Jedi (therefore on an equal level as the combatants), you see it as how it is depicted by the actors.

Do you understand what I am saying? Basically, what you might think as a "slow" move by Dooku is actually tremendously fast because you are viewing the duel from a Jedi POV.

2. You realize Dooku was one of the Order's finest Jedi (he could outspar Mace Windu) and that he tooled Obi-Wan and Anakin (both of whom are already highly regarded Jedi by this point) just prior to fighting Yoda. Secondly, Yoda did not wish to slay his [B]"old Padawan". He had a personal connection with Dooku and it's obvious he wanted to capture, not kill, him to find out why he had fallen to the Dark Side. If Yoda intended on finishing Dooku, he definitely would have came in with a stronger assault. Skywalker, tapping into his Chosen One potential, and with an intent to kill was able to defeat Dooku that rapidly. It should not be held against Yoda if he couldn't finish a powerful opponent (one of the finest swordsmen in the Order) that he had no desire of killing. Even then, Dooku was forced to flee because Yoda was already overwhelming him.

3. Yoda had to break concentration to secure the pillar and completely ensure that it wouldn't have the chance of accidently landing or rolling onto Anakin or Obi-Wan. That is why it took that much time. Yoda won't have to worry about others in this fight.

4. And did you see the clips of Kenobi and Yoda infiltrating the Temple against the 501st or the Grand Master's beheading of Gree and his Clone trooper? Those are two occasions where he doesn't show weakness of not being able to finish his opponents.

5. How is it against Yoda that he couldn't finish Sidious? He was the one who dominated close combat to the degree that the Sith Lord had to flee to higher ground. If the two weren't fighting on a repulsorpod at the end, Yoda wouldn't have been thrown hundreds of feet downward. After that, it's the Grand Master's realization about the failure of the Jedi Order and the dynamism of the Sith, along with incoming Clone troopers, that forced him to retreat.

Wait what are you saying? Only reason why Sidious disarmed Yoda at the end was because the Grand Master had no traction on the Senate pod he had just landed upon and the Force Storm was unleashed at point-blank range. Still, Yoda 'beats' Sidious in that energy exchange.

And your second part makes no sense since the two weren't fighting yet.

This battle takes place in an arena, on neutral ground. Higher ground is irrelevant.

Besides, I don't hold it against Yoda if Sidious, the most powerful Sith, managed to get to higher ground. Fact remains that despite that disadvantage, Yoda was able to get back onto equal ground with Sidious and essentially 'win' the next sequence if it weren't for the fact they were fighting on a Senate pod that Yoda landed on the edge of.

Do you realize how much momentum that pod had before Yoda brought it to a complete standstill? He spun it and threw it back with greater speed (against gravity), which of course would take more time than flinging it downward.

I've more than enough discussed Yoda's absolutely phenomenal ability to withstand and redirect Palpatine's Force Lighting (that fired Windu a mile+ across Coruscant) at that range with that hazardous footing. How you manage to see this as a negative point for Yoda is beyond me.

No, Yoda understood halfway through the duel, before he spun back the repulsorpod, that Sith had changed and adapted for the better while the Jedi remained static under his leadership. This personal failure along with the shortcomings of the Jedi told Yoda that the Sith could not be defeated that day. This coupled with the arrival of Clone Troopers forced him to retreat.

Therefore, your argument that Yoda lacks a killer edge is moot (both against Dooku and against Sidious). Against Voldemort he won't have doubts, burdens, or sudden realizations, but rather a clear mind with a sole intention to kill. [/B]

I get exactly what you're saying but it makes it impossible to gauge and all guesswork due to Lucas' words alone which are subject to change.

2.Yes, I realize Count Dooku was highly skilled. I already discussed earlier despite this Anakin destroys him the moment he lets loose his rage onto him. Yoda didn't disarm Count Dooku as decisively or as easily as Anakin did despite being imo a better fighter than Anakin. Anakin didn't kill hm to beat him he killed him after disarming him only through Palpatine's goading. Yoda still had ample time to do so. Yes, Yoda probably would have won if the fight had played it but Yoda not being able to do so or being unable to stop Dooku's tk attack without taking a tremendous amount of time and focus is unforgivable.

3.Yoda had to break from the fight to concentrate just like he did against the pod thrown right at him in the senate chamber due to it's immense size. That's why it took Yoda all that time. It's obvious the heavier the object the more focus and concentration it takes.

4.Yoda can easily and quickly finish off unskilled opponents far beneath his pay grade. My argument has always been an exceptional opponent he doesn't for the kill and isn't aggressive enough.

5.I honestly don't see Yoda dominating Palpatine at all. They seemed dead even to me but Palpatine just needed to survive this conflict so separating and gaining higher ground benefited him two fold. He had the higher ground and it increased his chances of survival creating space between the two. Yoda sought out his death Palpatine knew if he survived this they wouldn't have another chance and that Yoda could do nothing further to stop Palpatine's plans.

How does Yoda win in that energy exchange ? It ends up hitting them both and Yoda hits the dirt not Palpatine. So to me I see Yoda as temporarily resisting only to affect him in the end and for it also to affect Palpatine as well. since Palpatine held onto the pod he definitely won that exchange since neither of them were critically hurt.

I am not referencing the higher ground as any advantage Voldemort needs only attacking Yoda's mindset when he knows fully well he's at a disadvantage against Palpatine and allowing such a mistake in the first place despite being more elusive/mobile than Palpatine.

Yes, I understand this. I also understand all three times Yoda moved a huge object he needed his complete concentration and an assload of time to do so. Every single time so despite him needing to stop the momentum there are other examples of the drawn out process taking place each time this occurs.

I've already explained to you there were other factors present in the Windu force lightning feat and he's hit Yoda with it before and it sent him nowhere near that distance.

No, Yoda failing himself to kill Palpatine which he himself readily admits is on him. Yoda had the chance and failed. Yoda had the chance against the Count and failed. Two other jedi succeeded where he failed. It's point blank and doesn't get any more crystal clear. When Yoda is matched up with greatly skilled opponents it's a long fight he isn't aggressive enough to win/kill within a short amount of time unless fighting someone far below the skills of a jedi.

Yoda won't have time to doubt himself or think of anything other than evading for his life against Voldemort who will pour it on from start to finish.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
1. JHis TK feats took some time because they were on a [B]much higher scale than anything Voldemort has ever done.

2. The elimination of the Royal Guards wasn't quick?

3. Jedi POV for the TK acts against Dooku and Sidious.

4. Voldemort's TK isn't quick at all (and it's nothing compared to Yoda's) and I've touched on this in an earlier post.

You just hurt your own argument in this paragraph. The only reason Voldemort didn't miss is because Harry was standing still and ready to die.

You yourself accept that Voldemort misses when Potter is "evading him later on." Unless you think Yoda is going to lean on his stick and do this:

He will be dodging, and dodging very well.

1. Considering Neville was standing defiantly at the center and ready to charge, it's pretty apparent why he was KO'd.

2. What prevented you from seeing the whole "Yoda is holding onto his cane and talking to Sidious, clearly not ready for battle and therefore unprepared for the blast " or "Plot device intended to draw out the confrontation" that was quite apparent in the scene?

3. He dies by Avada Kedavra if it hits him, which isn't going to happen. [/B]

2.Yes, but the guards weren't ready for it whereas harry initially attacked Voldemort first.

3.Not going to fly here with the POV stuff. That calls everything they do on screen into question and has all just guessing how fast on everything.

4.It sure seemed quick against Harry. Yoda can tk about just as quick as Voldemort by moving his hands/wrist. Yoda tking out the guards or tking Palpatine didn't seem any more impressive and unlike bot of those situations neither Palpatine nor the guards were trying to attack when they got hit by it.

Yoda won't be jumping through different levels off a school or hiding behind walls. Yoda will be out in the open and when Harry was Voldemort was all over him. How often did Yoda ever evade force lightning ? Did he ever ? That brings up a serious point since it doesn't even seem like Yoda was fast enough to evade it just to block it, get hit by it, or try to redirect it.

Neville was actively opposing Voldemort and was ko'd with one shot. He was ready for battle so the excuse of him being unaware doesn't fly. Now had Neville been standing up guarding something and been blasted unaware of Voldemort's presence then you'd have a point but since he's charging into battle you don't.

2.Then you admit his precog is off and won't react to every attack. Voldemort wasn't holding his wand up to Harry when he tried to attack Voldemort but was more than quick enough to react when he turned around. If Yoda's precog is so good why couldn't or didn't he react to the obvious attack ?

3.Don't worry it will since force lightning has hit him I see no reason as to think it's ludicrous that the Avada Kedavra won't.

Did Yoda ever successfully block force lightning with his lightsaber ? Not one time yet the only time he did attempt to he lost his saber yet you're completely convinced He easily can deflect Voldemort's attacks without any proof of him even doing so within his own films.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Magic is assumed as a form of energy. Tutaminis absorbs, dissipates, and/or redirects concentrated energy attacks, which are what most spells in Harry Potter are.

Your right that Yoda can't block/redirect Fiendfyre and Crucio because they are different in style and essence than Avada Kadavra. But the Killing Curse is similar to Force Lightning.

And Sidious's Force Storm, which can send a master Jedi soaring across Coruscant with tremendous propulsion, is now in a "little league." Please.

Even Dooku's Force Lightning, which he seemed to do rather casually in the clip I show below, had the ability to lift up and slam Anakin against the wall, forcing him out of the duel for several minutes. Yoda, later on, [B]easily (not once troubled) gathers in his palms a stronger version of that Lightning and redirects it into a pure energy bolt.

Dooku's Lightning

1. This is flawed logic Quan. You are making it seem that just because Yoda lost his lightsaber once in combat, he is suddenly easy for Voldemort to disarm. And then you continue saying because Voldemort only lost his wand once to "X" reason, Yoda won't have the capability of disarming him in battle. Yoda's telekinesis could instantly disarm Voldemort or return his lightsaber to him should he lose it.

bash him against the ground, simultaneously breaking his spine and knocking him out.

2. "If Yoda is disarmed he's a sitting duck..." What? Yoda can't dodge or use tutaminis anymore if he loses his lightsaber? Yoda can't use TK to bash Voldemort against the ground, simultaneously breaking his spine and knocking him out? Or throw Voldemort across the arena? You still haven't shown me how Voldemort can counter Yoda's telekinesis.

3. You are assuming Voldemort can physically keep up with Yoda and be able to disarm the Grand Master and then have the time to hit him with the Killing Curse. However, this assumption is false since Voldemort hasn't shown any superhuman senses or reflexes.

[/B]

Yoda's lightsaber fell hundreds of feet below. Furthermore, the more pressing matter was the bombardment of lightning that Sidious was unleashing that Yoda had to counter. The duel ended after the energy exchange. If the battle was on neutral ground, you can be sure he would have Force Pull-ed his lightsaber.

I don't know about you, but I'm certain that opening spell by Voldemort was Avada Kadavra. Harry Potter Wiki also seems to agree...

...which if true, would kill everything you said above.

And Voldemort has always been no-nonsense. Avada Kadavra is his trademark and most effective spell. We seem killing the Potters and Frank Bryce in the films with this curse. Voldemort isn't going to be bothered on weakening his opponent when he knows that if Avada Kadavra hits, he will win no matter the condition of his opponent.

No, you haven't. You took the lowest showing of Yoda in a plot-drive sequence aimed to set up the titanic battle between Dark Lord of the Sith and Jedi Grand Master and a moment when he wasn't even in battle-mode as your only defense against Yoda's precognition, Force sense, and speed.

You have attempted to show that Yoda doesn't have superhuman reflexes and speed due to one singular instance; apart from that, you have no argument as to how Voldemort can counter Yoda's abilities and TK. You have proven Voldemort has firepower; an argument both you and I and everyone else is aware of. However, you haven't shown how this firepower would actually work against an opponent that can comfortably dodge (since spells in Harry Potter can be avoided if you just run to the side). You have tried to portray Voldemort as having fast reflexes based on his various interactions with Harry Potter, but all those moments show Harry in a compromised position and therefore don't come off as impressive showings. [/B]

Yes, it's little league because it hasn't killed anyone with a blast or two. The Avada Kedavra is a oneshot kill method aka "Big Leagues." Even against Luke Skywalker he needed quite a bit of time to kill Luke with it who still easily recovered after Darth Vader tossed him down the shaft. Sending Windu out the window into gusts of wind and going all out on a then defenseless Windu due to Anakin's actions reeks of taking advantage of the situation.

Yes, Dooku's lightning seemed weaker than even Palpatine's whom Luke survived despite the duration of the attacks on him and to which Yoda couldn't even completely redirect against Palpatine alone. Weak sauce.

1.Yoda's never disarmed any skilled opponent with tk in his own films and Voldemort's never been disarmed by another wizard's tk so the only logical conclusion is it doesn't happen here. You criticize me for saying Voldemort can't start out the fight with a basilisk since in Order of the Phoenix it's his second attack but then by the same token you can't argument for Yoda to suddenly disarm his opponents main weapon despite never doing so himself in his own movies. If he tks it's usually in self defense of force pushing someone. That's fair and consistent to how we've been arguing this from the start.

2.There's no proof anyone's spine was broken and those guards were completely unaware. Yoda didn't even really hurt Palpatine by his force tk attack so I really don't think you have a leg to stand on. Voldemort can keep him busy with his offensive powers, send a basilisk at him, use tk of his own, etc. Take your pick. Yoda also despite effectively tking Palpatine doesn't keep doing so. It's not in character just like Voldemort won't keep trying to knock Yoda's lightsaber out from him with his own tk when Yoda starts jumping around. I'm consistent to what I see on film I don't create feats which were never done on film and argue that way.

3.I've seen Voldemort move and likewise Yoda move. Yoda isn't a blur nor have his reactions been bullet speed or anywhere else. Yoda deflecting a laser blast to me is similar to Voldemort deflecting or parrying an offensive blast from an opposing wizard. They both are highly skilled and happen to be at the top of the class from their respective universes.

Just like if his saber falls down he will have to worry about Voldemort's attacks which will probably be coming right for Yoda who has never ever evaded force lightning.

Harry Potter wiki also has to do with the books as well they don't differentiate from the movies and the books and it becomes a tangled mess. When do you hear him say Avada Kedavra ? I've never heard him say it against Dumbledore. I don't own the movie so I can't subtitle it. If you can't prove he says it within the subtitle option then he doesn't try to use it against Dumbledore as it has to be spoken.

I agree he uses it a lot I just don't see him doing it at all against Dumbledore in the Order of the Phoenix scene nor do I see him use it against Snape, or Neville. If it fails to hit or connect expect a lot of other attacks not just repeated Avada Kedavra attacks.

You're trying to ham up Yoda's showings of taking out two troopers while excusing an equally skilled opponent blasting him and then excusing it as furthering the plot. Precog should put his mind in battle mode since it was obvious even to me what Palpatine's intentions were here.

Blatantly untrue. I have also gone into detail about how warped your view is with regards to Yoda lifting huge objects with his tk which requires all his focus and I have also established it isn't in character for Yoda to tk his opponent into submission or disarm a skilled opponent since he's never done so on film. My arguments are based off what Voldemort has done on film and varying it while you criticize me for having him use Fiendfyre while at the same time argue Yoda just tk disarms him or breaks his spine which is completely unsupportable. If you want to argue based on powersets alone and their abilities Voldemort absolutely destroys Yoda due to apparating and sending fire creatures at him.

I don't want to argue based off of abilities but rather what's in character and it isn't in character for Yoda to disarm his opponents since he's never done so. Yoda can force push him as he's done so in the films so that's an agreeable option and something supportable by the films as he's done it.

You seem to forget Voldemort's duel with Dumbledore which is by far his most impressive showing. Harry Potter survived due to loads of help from his dead parents, Dumbledore, the Elder wand not rightfully being his, and his mother's initial protective spell. Harry should have been dead multiple times had he not had aid. Yoda doesn't have the luxury of surviving an Avada Kedavra or having a horcrux built into him like Harry does.

Also Yoda hasn't evaded force lightning or successfully blocked it on screen. Now I think he can but acting like it's easily done is another matter altogether so it isn't a foregone conclusion that Yoda just easily dodges and blocks what Voldemort unleashes on him. If Voldemort sends Fiendfyre after him it ends quickly. Yoda has no way to slay the fire magic.