Battlezone: Voldemort (Quanchi) vs. Yoda (Vos)

Holy hendeca-post!

quanchi
That makes it perfectly clear how powerful the Elder Wand can be as opposed to the other wizards in the Harry Potter universe.

Voldemort's destruction of the protection barrier had nothing to do with the Elder Wand in terms of power utilized; the book and film make it abundantly clear that the wand is not only limiting the power Voldemort can use, the latter actually shows the wand actively resisting him and destroying itself. Voldemort shattered the barrier because of his own natural potency, not any advantage afforded by the Deathstick, which is why he confronts and murders Snape shortly afterwards.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Voldemort's destruction of the protection barrier had nothing to do with the Elder Wand in terms of power utilized; the book and film make it abundantly clear that the wand is not only limiting the power Voldemort can use, the latter actually shows the wand actively resisting him and destroying itself. Voldemort shattered the barrier because of his own natural potency, not any advantage afforded by the Deathstick, which is why he confronts and murders Snape shortly afterwards.

I already covered why the wand resisted him at this point and everything he did with the wand basically in other detailed responses.
Now don't respond further here and speculate in the other thread where it's deemed acceptable.

Korto I already summed this up in my responses so no point in responding to this as I already covered it and can't resist someone attacking my points in the official battlezone thread.

Respond in this thread if you have to but it's better if you wait until the battlezone is over imo.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=553185&pagenumber=2

Yeah hey, please respond in the other thread if you think Quanchi or I made an illogical argument. The battlezone is a 1 v. 1 affair, or at least this particular debate is.

Time for a posting assault....

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, I am glad you used this as an example. We see very clearly here Obi tk General Grievous up into the air. I have always believed in the idea tk in star wars was always about catching your opponent off guard. This is exactly what occurs. Obi doesn't tk defeat him but does use it when necessary and his opponent isn't prepared for it. This is how tk is used throughout star wars to try and catch someone off guard not that they can tk their opponents into submission those with exceptional skill/powers.

1. It was not meant to be an example, but fair enough.

2. I’m sorry Quan, but your argument above is completely untrue.
Kenobi was sent to Utapau to eliminate Grievous. In that fight, he was hell-bent on destroying the General. Therefore, he clearly wanted that Force Push to wreck the cyborg. I agree with your point that TK can be utilized to surprise your opponent. However, to say that telekinesis is merely to startle and not to incapacitate your opponent is a far-fetched assumption. For example, regular Jedi often use telekinesis to dismantle droids. Read below.

Yoda’s Offensive Telekinesis:

1. Consider Kenobi's offensive TK in this instance. He was able to hurl the Separatist leader 50 feet (more or less) into the air into a metal hanging. The only reason Grievous survived that blow was because of his durable cybernetic armor. Yoda's TK > > Kenobi's TK. If Yoda exerted as much as Kenobi in that instant, the sheer power of such a Force Push in full galore would have crushed Grievous.

2. Let us watch this scene again, shall we?

Offensive TK 1

First of all, you argued that the two Royal Guards were unprepared for Yoda. That’s outlandish because the two watchmen are the Emperor’s bodyguards. They are elite soldiers selected from the military to protect the most important man in the galaxy; essentially, the Red Guards are the Secret Service of the Secret Service. It’s illogical to say they, of all people, are not ready for an attack by someone whom they can clearly hear ambling his way in the corridor towards them. Furthermore, as Yoda enters the room, you see the Royal Guards spring into action, turning and readying their pikes. Simply put, they were prepared.

With an effortless wave of his hand, Yoda throws the two Royal Guards into the wall. You see the point of contact being the center of their backs, right at the location of the spinal column. It’s quite easy to determine that the impact broke their thoracic vertebrae. Symptoms of a spinal injury include paralysis and unconsciousness as a result of nerves damaged in the cord. Mind you, these guards are not simply clad in crimson robes- they have full body armor underneath more advanced than standard military-grade equipment. Therefore, for Yoda to have still fractured their spines while they had such protection is indicative of his offensive TK might.

Your second argument was that, “In any event they were far.far, far below the skill of Yoda/Palpatine and Voldemort here. Most non jedi/sith characters pale in comparison to them so this is another example of this.”

‘Skill’ plays no part in the fragility of the human body. Voldemort is tall and emaciated, almost skeletal. He is physically weaker than an average health human being, and significantly less hardy than a tip top shape Royal Guard. Unlike Yoda, who uses Force Valor to overcome his elderly infirmities and boost his powers and constitution to insane levels, Voldemort doesn’t have any spell to strengthen his body to survive such damaging physical blows. In fact, Voldemort has nothing in his arsenal that can grant him the precognition and metahuman speed, reflexes, and senses to allow him to possibly defend against an instantaneous telekinetic wave.

3. I draw attention to this video again:

Offensive TK 2

If you watch very, very carefully, at 0:03 seconds, you can pick out around nine Clone troopers engaging Yoda (as if that wasn't impressive, in itself). At 0:05, you see Yoda telekinetically crippling/killing one trooper (the Clone doesn’t get back up, similar to the Royal Guards), and at 0:06, you can the animation of him just raising his hand and telekinetically crippling/killing three members of the 501st. This elite legion was fitted with superb armor (Phase II Clone trooper armor); thus, Yoda's offensive TK was brutally effective.

This substantiates the offensive TK that I described immediately above. Furthermore, this example again accentuates how Voldemort, physically weak and without any state-of-the-art protective gear, would be easier for Yoda to cripple/kill with his offensive TK.

4. I have a feeling you’ll attempt to refute my earlier points by commenting how Yoda’s Force Push against Sidious prior to the actual fighting didn’t cripple/kill the Dark Lord of the Sith. Simply put, Yoda wanted an ‘eye-for-eye’ retaliation for Sidious’s electrical bolt. Yoda continued to exchange words after the Force Push, thereby proving the Grand Master didn’t intend for that move to incapacitate the Emperor. It’s evident that if Yoda had been juiced up with Force Valor and ripe for battle, that move would have been far more damaging to Palpatine.

Here is a video of the Darth Maul/Obi Wan fight and at around 4.25 minutes into the video we see Maul gain the edge over Obi through tk. Maul catches him off guard and then strikes not that he ever could just easily tk Obi into submission at any time he wanted to but rather needed to wait for the appropriate time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A4fN7FEzjc

You said it yourself Quan. Maul couldn’t telekinetically incapacitate Obi-Wan at any time because he had to wait for the appropriate moment. Rage!Kenobi, y'know, was trying to chop his head off. Maul had to regain his footing and find a safe opening in the lightsaber duel to use the Force Push.

Ok.

1. I hardly see the point about providing other examples of him using tk in the Harry Potter films and here's why. Yoda moving heavier objects with all of his attention and energy focused on them isn't something that's a plus in his favor. None of his tk object moving feats were done even remotely fast by sub par human standards. This is a battle with two opponents who have shown exceptional skill in battle along with the reflexes such as Voldemort deflecting attacks from other magical wands and their effects within a moments notice that could have killed/wounded him.

You are avoiding the question, Quan. Fact of the matter is that Voldemort hasn't shown any comparable TK feats.

By highlighting all those dramatic examples of Yoda’s telekinetic might in my opening argument, I have proved the potency of the Grand Master’s ability. I have established the sheer amount of raw power Yoda possesses that can be employed both offensively and defensively.

In my opening argument, I have proved Yoda has tremendous defensive TK. He has shown he can lift, halt, and redirect incredibly heavy objects (some of which are coming at him with extreme momentum, such as the repulsorpod).

Basically, I have proved in my opening argument that Yoda has tremendous defensive TK.

And now I just finished discussing Yoda’s ruthlessly effectual offensive TK; with the raw power he access to, Yoda’s offensive TK can clearly one-shot Voldemort to unconsciousness --> death.

In addition, the "Jedi POV" comes into play for any TK that occurs in Jedi/Sith fights. The TK feats might come off as 'slow' perceiving it from a Jedi's frame of reference. However, a human would witness it as moderately fast. You said that Jedi POV was “impossible to gauge.” However, observational reference frame with relation to the state of motion of an observer is a well-known concept in physics. Lucas’s comment on the limitations of human actors is a valid statement since Jedi have superhuman senses, reflexes, and speed. The Jedi POV is a completely logical argument that I have made. With human senses, we would only notice the battles as blurs (such as the case in Twilight, but something that Lucas cannot cinematographically replicate), but from the frame of reference of a Jedi, we would perceive the duels as they were shown in the movies. With an ‘equivalent’ state of mind, we would see how they were played out by the actors.

I can further rationalize this line of thought because the Jedi vs Sith fights in the films involved the strongest individuals. Therefore, even from a Jedi POV, the duels were fast (which is what we watch in the movies). As a result, any of the “slow” TK you think of, such as Yoda’s redirection of the repulsorpod, would have been by no means slow by human perception.

In addition, the objects that Yoda had to lift, halt, and/or redirect were at least ten times heavier than Voldemort. If it took the time that it did to telekinetically manipulate those things, then Yoda’s TK would be very quick against Voldemort. How can we be certain? Look at the two examples of offensive TK that I’ve highlighted above- Yoda, without any exertion, speedily put two Red Guards and four 501st Clone troopers out of action.

2.Voldemort's tk disarming of Harry's wand fits perfectly against his opponent here. It shows how quickly he can react to someone being aggressive to him while on the other side we saw Yoda fail to stop Palpatine's initial force lightning blast after he slowly raised his arms against Yoda. Neither Yoda nor Voldemort weigh a lot so showing them lift something epically huge won't determine anything although Voldemort moving that Giant by moving his hand shows he can move a tremendous amount of weight as well with little to no effort. Voldemort didn't need to concentrate he simply moved his hand and the Giant moved unlike Yoda who while moving heavy objects needs all of his focus and attention while taking a considerable amount of time in terms of a battle such as this.

Seriously, your argument that “it doesn’t work both ways” is invalid. You continue to rely on a singular instance that I, as everyone else who have seen the films and/or are moderating this debate, know is not reflective of Yoda’s unparalleled reflexes.

I am going to end this specific argument by you once and for all, and ram this point home for any readers who seem to believe Yoda has sluggish reflexes.

Yoda v. Sidious

Pause the video at 0:35 and observe Yoda. You see him simply standing with both of his hands resting on his cane for support. Are you going to say that’s the stance of somebody ready for battle? At 1:30, you see Yoda struggling to stand up. It’s obvious that he hasn’t activated Force Valor to overpower his old age frailties. At the end of his fight with Sidious, Yoda raises himself up more easily than before, even though he just felt the impact of an electrical explosion and plummeted hundreds of feet (bouncing off a repulsorpod on the way) before colliding onto the ground; this proves that Yoda is employing Force Valor, a power he always kicks in before combat.

Secondly, I repeat this paragraph again:

“Couple minutes later you see him dodging an avalanche of Senate pods. When he returns to engage Sidious on the repulsorpod, he lands close to the ledge, a precarious position. Here Sidious bombards him with Force Storm (which had the power to blast Windu across Coruscant) at point-blank range. The attack knocks away Yoda's lightsaber, but the Grand Master has the precog/reflexes/speed/strength to erect a potent defense single-handed (before resorting to both hands) on an insecure position.”

Yoda was closer to Sidious than he was to him in his office, was at an unstable position, and had drained a lot of energy (though the Grand Master seems to have an inexhaustible amount of that when in battle) dodging when the Sith Lord unleashed his Force Storm barrage- much stronger than the teasing bolt he fired earlier. If Yoda is as slow to aggressive actions as you make him out to be, how come he wasn’t demolished then and there?

All the evidence (Yoda against Dooku, against the Clones, against Sidious) contradicts this lowest showing you keep reverting to. The straightforward explanation is that Yoda wasn’t in battle-mode and therefore unable to respond rapidly. From 2:03 onwards is when Yoda is ready to duke it out with the Dark Lord of the Sith.

This reasoning of course doesn’t even consider the fact that the whole purpose of the ‘office scene’ was to set up the duel that would transpire in the Senate Hall. Palpatine wasn’t intending on killing Yoda with his Force Lightning; he released a single bolt and proceeded to taunt the Grand Master about his victory and his delight that the Jedi Order was destroyed. Likewise, Yoda wasn’t intending on incapacitating Sidious with his Force Push; he wanted to ‘reply in kind’ and taunt the Sith Lord that his triumph was only ephemeral. More or less, the entire ‘office scene’ was designed to build up the confrontation that happens in the Senate Hall.

Next, your statement that Voldemort only missed Potter because it was plot-driven is unsound. Yoda and Sidious had not engaged in battle until 2:22 in the video. However, once the Dark Wizard saw Potter alive, he furiously aimed his wand and blasted firebals that were either meant to kill or disable Harry; Harry, likewise, was running for his life. It was clearly a combat situation where Voldemort could not land his attacks on his desired target.

3.Thirdly Yoda used tk in defense of himself with the pods/objects being hurled at him. Yoda wasn't offensively tossing pods around against Palpatine but instead dodging/defending himself while towards the end stopping one in mid flight and then focusing all his energy into sending it back at Palpatine in an offensive strike.

Was that supposed to be a negative point? As I discussed in my opening argument, that repulsorpod was descending with enormous force…

I think I have already backed up the notion in star wars tk is used only at crucial times against skilled opponents with their own tk it isn't a method in itself to destroy their opponents just a tool they call on when necessary and the moment is right.

FALSE

2.I agree Harry was scared but was resisting Voldemort and later fought him. Voldemort was simply toying with him at this point. I mean we see later on in Order of the Phoenix Harry turn around to cheapshot Voldemort to see Voldemort easily tk his wand/weapon out of his hand with ease.

Watch the clip again Quan. There was no “resistance” to the ‘bow’ whatsoever.

And again, the OOTP example wasn’t impressive at all. I don’t want to repeat what I said before. And lol, for as “easy” as it already was for Voldemort, the dude still had to snarl and vehemently move his hand down to disarm the wand…

I didn't use the sickle as proof as to how impressive the tk is just another example of him using it. I tend to put more weight on the feats which are combat related such as disarming your opponent rather than tking something that weighs a considerable amount in a drawn out period of time.

As a matter of fact, taking more time to TK an object that weights a considerable amount is relevant. We see Jedi having no difficulty pulling back their lightsabers if they ever lose them. We see Yoda having no difficulty TK-ing the Royal Guards and the Clone troopers. It’s rather logical to assume that lifting up an apple with the Force would take significantly less time than lifting an X-wing. Therefore, Yoda TK-ing something (such as a human) that has at least ten times less mass than some of the massive objects he has moved before wouldn’t occur in a “drawn out period of time” at all, but rather instantly. And Ihave shown proof of this phenomenon.

Where do you get that it breaks the guards' backs and spines ? These guards are completely unprepared and caught off guard. I agree it kos them but to suggest it breaks their backs and spines with absolutely no proof in the movies is a bit of a stretch. In any event they were far.far, far below the skill of Yoda/Palpatine and Voldemort here. Most non jedi/sith characters pale in comparison to them so this is another example of this. It's like most skilled wizards being greater than any other creature in the Harry Potter verse.

I’ve discussed this before in greater detail above. But just to recap: Bodyguards chosen (to even be selected for such a position means that not only are you in incredible condition, but that you have extreme focus, keen senses, and quick reflexes) to protect the most important man in the galaxy are not taken by surprise by someone whom they can hear grunting and slowly making his way to the room. And that is verified by how briskly they react to Yoda as passes the doorway.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I don't think he will torture Yoda to death I merely showed you this spell as an option since he used in combat against Harry Potter. This means it's a viable option against Yoda.

All right, but Voldemort, as the no nonsense-type, would most likely only use Avada Kedavra among the Unforgivable Curses.

I think Voldemort's reaction times are fine enough to speak it quickly which he does against Harry Potter and to have the skill to locate Yoda. Now I know Yoda will be moving around but I reference back to Voldemort's flight feat of Daethly Hallows part 1 while during flight he pinpoints Harry Potter in the sky and has no problem hitting Harry had it not been for his wand stalemating his attack. They were flying at a very high speed far faster than Yoda can jump so I don't see the problem at all. Yoda also to me isn't even close to a blur he moves quickly and doesn't stay put for long but to me a blurry combat feat is something like what occurs in True Blood by the vampires.[QUOTE]

Again, Voldemort closely cruised alongside Hagrid’s motorcycle and from his frame of reference took aim at a static target. If Hagrid was swerving around, then chances are Voldemort would have badly missed.

And again, unless you think Voldemort will ‘enter shadow flight mode’ and start flying around Yoda, then this particular discussion is irrelevant.

Finally, Lucas cannot have Jedi and Sith fighting as blurs, though they are supposed to be moving that quick (hence the basis behind my Jedi POV argument). Even then, Yoda’s on-screen movements (from a Jedi POV) are still much faster than Voldemort.

[QUOTE]Yeah, I just brought it up because I didn't want to leave any of the three unforgivable curses out not that I thought for a moment it would be successful against Yoda.

All right, then.

1.I never claimed he moved the stones I stated he broke them with pure force by way of magic/his wand. You can clearly see the stones crack which is due to Voldemort's offensive attack on the stone. I just mentioned it as another feat to show how impressive the force he can unleash from his wand even prior to acquiring the Elder wand by a simple motion. The stone is far more durable than Yoda as well.

Ah, okay. Well I’ve already acknowledged in my opening argument that Voldemort has a powerful arsenal; it’s just that firepower ultimately won’t save him against Yoda.

And after watching Yoda get up rather comfortably after feeling the impact of an explosion and crashing to the ground after falling hundreds of feet while bouncing off repulsorpods, I’d say he’s very durable, himself.

2.Ok, that wasn't meant to be quantified but since you brought it up I will attempt to display the overall impressiveness of the Elder Wand in Voldemort's possession.

Voldemort's energy blast from his wand destroyed the protective barrier of Hogwarts. His entire army of deatheaters had previously tried to break through with the combined attacks of over a 100 wizards easy. Now Voldemort after losing another piece of his soul when another Horcrux was destroyed reacts immediately and blasts through the combined protective charms multiple Professors and Wizards who were defending Hogwarts school. That makes it perfectly clear how powerful the Elder Wand can be as opposed to the other wizards in the Harry Potter universe.

To be honest Quan, I was going to respond quite similarly to the counter already posted against this argument:

1. Any shield becomes more damaged/less effectual the more blows it absorbs. If that’s the case, then if the Hogwarts’ barrier had already been bombarded with the spells of some 100 Death Eaters, Voldemort only truly destroyed an already broken shield.

2. (If #1 isn’t true) We don’t know what spell Voldemort utilized to break that protective barrier. For all we know, the other Death Eaters may not have known the correct incantation, but the Dark Wizard did.

3. And yes, the barrier’s destruction was due to Voldemort (fueled by his excessive rage/horror) rather than the powers of the Elder Wand. The movie explicitly depicts the Elder Wand resisting his spell.

Here is an example of what the other deatheaters are capable of. It occurs a little over a minute in the video and shows them take down a massive bridge with little to no effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo-U5iOinM8

WTF? This isn’t even a fight scene involving Death Eaters. Are you trying to say that since Voldemort broke a barrier that a hundred Death Eaters already significantly weakened for him or Voldemort broke a barrier that he happened to know the unique spell for, that suddenly he’s > 100 Death Eaters???

And now you are showing what a few Death Eaters can do (breaking a bridge unopposed) collectively, so everyone else can fathom what 100 Death Eaters can do combined? And this is due to your logic that Voldemort > 100 Death Eaters because he broke a shield. Wow…huh…I don’t even know what to say…

Now with regards to Palpatine's force blast of Windu out the window I will say this. Palpatine unloaded on him with a full fury and shot him out into gusting winds from a storm what was taking place at the time. I have seen his lightning resisted by Luke for a time and by Yoda as well. The lightning can be fatal when under a prolonged period of exposure to it but the feat only occurred due to Anakin's cheapshot behanding of Windu.

LOL? Tell me, what “gusting winds” do you see moving parallel to the trajectory of Windu’s ejection that they carry Mace at least a mile+ into the Coruscant skyline?

UNLIMITED POWAHHH!

I apologize, but this is a ludicrous rebuttal.

These “gusting winds” that you speak of do not suddenly maintain the force that Sidious’s lightning expelled Windu. Watch the video again- it’s very obvious that it was the strength of the Sith Lord’s barrage that threw the Jedi to that distance, and not because of any assisting “gusting winds.”

In fact, since you brought up “gusting winds,” if you watch from 1:27 onwards, you see the gale blowing into Sidious’s face (look at his eyes) and then later his back as he turns around.

Therefore, the “gusting winds” are actually more orthogonal than parallel to Windu as he is thrown into the air.

Thank you- you have established Sidious’s Force Storm as even more powerful. Without the “gusting winds” to lessen the forward force, Windu would have traveled even farther. And this makes Yoda’s accomplishment against Palpatine’s Force Storm even more impressive.

3.I never once stated the Elder wand makes you unbeatable I just stated it is the most powerful wand ever to be created in Harry Potter movies.

I disagree. The only reason it opposed him in the movie is because he directly opposed the rightful owner. Harry Potter isn't in this thread and the wand was surely capable of killing his own followers, critically cutting Snape, breaking through the combined enchantments of hogwarts school, koing Neville through sheer force, and destroying a Horcrux within Harry Potter.

1. The Elder Wand cracked and harmed itself (and hurt the Dark Wizard, as well) when Voldemort broke the Hogwarts’ barrier. That wasn’t a moment when Voldemort was opposing Harry Potter.

2. The Deathstick wasn’t any stronger than a normal wand in all those examples you state above. The Elder Wand will release spells reluctantly, but it no way would it ever bolster Voldemort’s attacks.

3. The Elder Wand only performed the Killing Curse against Potter because Harry wanted the Deathstick to kill him.

Without opposing Harry Potter here the wand won't resist him. [/B]

FALSE

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, I know Harry was able to veer around and stop Voldemort's attack but this would still create the necessary distance between himself and Yoda during combat if Yoda does successfully block the attack with his saber.

Apparition would be Voldemort’s only defense against Yoda’s bionic precog/sense/reflexes/speed, not to mention brutal TK.

I think it's just something rarely shown in battles like combat speed in True Blood. To me it's obvious it would be an advantage and throw your opponent off or like I said create the necessary distance you need against someone who has a lightsaber and is actively trying to kill you with it.

I’m not saying it’s impossible for Voldemort to use Apparition. HOWEVER, as I have described in my opening argument and prior rebuttal, the very nature of wizard duels and Voldemort’s highly-offensive persona will place the Dark Wizard at a disadvantage due to the uncomfortable degree of Apparition he will have to employ to evade Yoda. That's why I see this battle ending rather quickly in the Jedi's favor.

I see the killing of Sirius Black as similar to Yoda's tk of those unsuspecting Palpatine guards. They simply weren't ready for it and like a sucker punch in real life it will definitely affect you more when your guard is completely down.

No, those two are completely different circumstances that are no way analogous. Black never heard (therefore anticipated) Bellatrix approaching, and didn’t have the opportunity to see her and aim his wand before he was killed. Lestrange materialized a distance away, and cheapshot a completely unsuspecting Sirius. My point holds- in the films, Apparition works if the opponent has no anticipation whatsoever.

Potter and most of the wizards in Harry Potter don't just have normal reactionary skill since most humans couldn't easily just without training just block someone else's offensive spell/attacks and would be caught off guard if someone teleported behind you. Harry Potter though young was battle tested and had run into Giant Arachnids, a Basilisk, other deatheaters, other opposing wizards, been taught and trained at school both officially and secretly. He's not some schlub someone gave a wand to last week and suddenly can react to the dark lord.

Sure, Potter might have had an adrenaline-fueled rapid reaction rate during that fight, but ultimately, even with all of his experiences, his senses are still human. And Yoda, on the other hand, has precognition and Force Sense with superhuman reflexes and speed.

hardly see him not knowing where to send the Basilisk as a serious defense against it. The snake is gigantic and it Yoda isn't fast enough to completely avoid it pursuing him. Yoda will have his hands busy while Voldemort sends it after him. The snake didn't ever lose it's potency and in Deathly Hallows 2 when the younger/more inexperienced wizards who used this spell but lacked the ability to control it the creatures still pursued everyone in the room. They were running they weren't actively controlling them and they didn't ever lose potency and didn't stop pursuing anyone. Voldemort only dissipated it after Dumbledore sent it back at him with razor sharp reflexes which set up the moment where Dumbledore encased him in the water bubble temporarily.
Yoda can leap all he wants it won't stop pursuing him. We also see Yoda barely dodging pods tossed his way despite being most likely several hundred feet away in the senate chamber. Yoda's nowhere near as quick even in his own battles to suggest he can avoid this giant snake for long.

What is this??? This ‘fire control’ that you claim is off-the-charts speculation.

The film never shows what would transpire in a controlled Fiendfyre when Voldemort conjures up his fiery serpent without knowing the position of his opponent. There isn’t any proof to suggest that this snake can even sense on its own accord and move without Voldemort commanding its movements.

Secondly, the film doesn’t show whether Voldemort can maintain Fiendfyre and unleash another enchantment simultaneously, especially considering he has to sustain concentration in order to control this wild spell from being uncontained.

Thirdly, with the flames masking Voldemort’s visibility in the direction he released Fiendfyre, the Dark Wizard may not have any idea where the exceedingly swift Grand Master has jumped to. Fiendfyre would be a waste for Voldemort to maintain (especially if he cannot utilize other spells while the spell is still active and/or the serpent can only move with Voldemort’s command, both of which are unknowns that the films never explain).

All we know about controlled Fiendfyre is that Voldemort manipulate it, shape it into an aflame serpent, and set it, on his order, onto someone whose location he knows.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Harry turning and trying to attack Voldemort happened a lot faster than Palpatine slowly raised his hands and blasted Yoda into temporarily unconsciousness. This shows Yoda's poor reaction times while facing an opponent with both of their motives perfectly clear. They both want to kill each other and Yoda's precog didn't even catch the obvious a mere human being would have no doubt been prepared for. Voldemort can't see into the future and know Harry's turning around at that moment but he reacted despite not having his wand pointed at Harry prior to. That's a direct comparison to Voldemort looking far quicker to his opponent than Yoda's slow nonreaction to Palpatine's blatant attack.

I think I’ve drilled the point home as to why that one presentation you keep falling back to isn’t representative of Yoda in combat (which is a Battlezone presumption- that both combatants are ready for battle).

Yoda’s reflexes and speed are leagues higher than that of Voldemort’s. You can continue to glorify the Dark Wizard with his removal of Harry Potter’s wand, but the fact remains that it was an unimpressive showing , and doesn’t prove whatsoever that Voldemort has anything remotely close to herculean reflexes and agility.

I said it's a possibility not a given the electric like beams could hit Yoda who is busy repelling Voldemort's offensive attack. Yes, deflecting a force lightning attack is in the cards but also losing your light saber in the process is also in the cards. We also see it wasn't easy for Windu to do so while Yoda outright failed to do so with his lightsaber. Once Yoda loses his lightsaber it's over since the Avada Kedavra is coming for him which he cannot redirect an attack that kills you upon contact. The movies have made that clear and even in ROTS we see Yoda get knocked back by the sheer force of Palpatine's lightning he partially redirects back onto him. Just sheer force alone he can't redirect which also went back into him effectively knocking him off of the pod.

Then it’s also a possibility that if Yoda is an energy exchange with Voldemort, that the tendrils could hit the Dark Wizard as he is busy repelling the pure energy Yoda is sending back.

How in the world can you compare Windu’s and Yoda’s lightning interactions? The circumstances in which Sidious unleashed his electrical maelstrom were completely different- Windu was on solid ground with this lightsaber right between himself and Sidious on the ground, whereas Yoda just landed on a precarious position on the repulsorpod after just dodging an avalanche of Senate pods. That Yoda lost his lightsaber is completely reasonable. Fact of the matter is that he ends up ‘winning’ the energy exchange against the same barrage that took Windu everything he had to block with his lightsaber and later ejected him very far into the Coruscant skyline.

Avada Kadavra ”kills you upon contact” but tutaminis, either with a lightsaber or bare hands, prevents the concentrated energy from ever touching the body.

Ok, Yoda's precog has failed him before and is vague at best. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse but for all his precog he wasn't even aware Palpatine was going to force lightning blast him at the start of their fight. This shows he can be hit and by a slow initial attack in Palpatine slowly raising his hands. So despite all the exaggeration of Yoda's abilities how he fights on film is vastly different with the examples I have given.

Voldemort's tremendous firepower can and will be used at a distance unlike Yoda who has no way of ending Voldemort without his lightsaber. Yoda has also been hit by attacks far less than human reactions so acting like he can't be hit by Voldemort when he was hit by force lightning multiple times and only narrowly avoided incoming flying pods coming from over a hundred feet away.

Talk about beating a dead horse for the amount of times I have to tell you that the moment you keep going back to isn’t exhibitive of Yoda’s abilities, especially when all his combat scenes have him contradicting this singular instance.

Secondly, losing his lightsaber isn't a gamebreaker for Yoda since the Grand Master can just TK Voldemort.

This is something I will never understand about the star wars faithful. Voldemort has tk of his own like Yoda. It's about whose is more effective in a combat situation against the other not a liftathon. For Yoda's great tk he's never easily killed someone by tk alone and did effectively land an attack of tk against Palpatine. Like most tk and even tk you've shown demonstrated by star wars characters it usually knocks their opponents back.

FALSE

1. Yoda crippled the Royal Guards and crippled/killed the Clone Troopers with TK.

2. Yoda’s TK of Palpatine was an ‘eye for an eye’ retaliation and not meant to incapacitate the Emperor.

3. Of course TK knocks opponents back- if you’re forcefully pushing someone, he/she will certainly move backwards.

It also is quite evident despite Yoda being able to tk Palpatine to catch him off guard it's not an attack he can just use at will to defeat him. Palpatine has his own form of ranged attacks he uses such as force lightning and needs to hit Yoda with it when he's unprepared just like Yoda needs to catch Palpatine unprepared for it.

Palpatine and Yoda are essentially equals in their precognition, Force sense, reflexes, and speed. In lightsaber combat, neither can afford to disengage and use an offensive TK maneuver without the risk of a lightsaber up his throat. It’s the explanation behind the limited usage of Force attacks between Force-sensitives. All Jedi Knights have the precognition to dodge/block the move and then press the advantage.

It’s the reason why lightsaber contests are not only won by those who are quicker, but also by the ones who have superior precognition to look farther ahead and counter their opponenet’s maneuver.

When Obi Wan uses tk against Grievous later when he catches up to him he uses it to bring a blaster over to him to win the fight. Obi couldn't simply tk his opponent here into submission and star wars has always made this clear or so I thought in every instance of using it in battle.

FALSE. Kenobi tried to dismantle Grievous by slamming into a metal overhanging, which failed. Once Obi-Wan saw that, he knew Grievous’s cybernetic armor was too strong for his TK to break. Therefore, he went for the cyborg’s heart.

I will cite yet another example here to prove my point. In the Anakin(Darth Vader) battle against Obi Wan in ROTS we clearly see them both try a tk attack at the same time. Neither overpowers the other really instead they both are knocked far back due to their opponents tk. To me Anakin was obviously his superior which Obi rather admitted in ROTS and he still didn't flat out overpower Obi but instead they both suffered the effects of tk.

The 1:45 mark is when the tk stalemate occurs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI

Tk has always been catching your opponent off guard in the Harry Potter films as in the Star Wars films. Even when successful Yoda has only done so to knock his opponents backwards as has Darth Maul against Obi Wan, Obi and Anakin have against each other, and Obi Wan knocking Grievous back in ROTS.

Completely False.

1. Rage!Anakin/Vader at the end of ROTS isn’t nowhere as powerful as the Zone!Anakin that clobbered Dooku. It’s a ‘fact’ that’s quite established in the Star Wars Versus Forum.

2. Anakin and Obi-Wan were engaged in high-speed lightsaber combat- if one slowed his pace to use TK, the other would have chopped a limb off. Both of them had engaged in a saber lock, and saw the opportunity to safely utilize a Force Push to drive the opponent into submission. Of course, both of them saw the opening and that’s why it ended up becoming a stalemate.

3. Again, TK is effective if it can surprise an opponent. However, that’s not its sole purpose whatsoever. All the examples you’ve provided demonstrate that the user employs TK to incapacitate the opponent (Yoda against the Clones/Royal Guards; Obi-Wan against Grievous; Vader & Kenobi against each other).

I won't argue Voldemort apparating left and right because it's out of character and powerset arguing just like Yoda using tk over and over again is.

Against an opponent who he knows doesn’t have the matching precognition, reflexes, sense, and speed, Yoda will definitely make use of telekinesis. Against lesser opponents (the Clones & Royal Guards), he has utilized TK successfully.

Yoda like the others doesn't ever keep going back to the well and even if he does catch Voldemort off guard he will go backwards but that's it. Yoda didn't suddenly rush Palpatine after doing so either and gave him the time to wield his lightsaber. I never have taken this tk stuff seriously as it's always been portrayed in the films as I have described it and it's out of character for Yoda or any Star Wars characters to keep suing it to defeat a skilled/opponent other than random schlub Vader chokes out with it.

Yes, I’ve explained more than enough times why Yoda “didn’t suddenly rush Palpatine” after his Force Push.

I feel this is a point of contention that we won’t be able to agree upon. Therefore, it’s up for all those judging and deciding the outcome of this debate to see who’s actually right on this matter.

Yoda doesn’t need to “keep suing it” against Voldemort; if he can successfully land an offensive TK (which he most certainly can as a result of his much faster speed) Voldemort would either lose his wand or end smashed to the ground and knocked out cold like the Clones and Royal Guards.

Yes, I agree he won't have access to the glass here but the sheer force of such an attack would put Yoda on his ass. That's why I brought it up to show when he releases all that matter/energy Yoda's hitting the deck.

Yoda, landing on the edge of a repulsorpod and having no traction, and just returning from dodging an avalanche of Senate pods, managed to temporarily block Sidious’s Force Storm single-handed before resorting to two hands, and still, once he regained composure, clearly ‘won’ that exchange. That Force Storm had the power to throw Windu at least mile+ (against “gusting winds” along the way) into Coruscant.

Therefore, it would take something with tremendous force for Yoda to not be able to block. That Force Storm attack would have put anyone on his/her ass, but not the Grand Master.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I haven't forgotten it. I disagree though to the nth power. Avada Kedavra can be blocked or avoided but redirected not a chance. It's instantaneous death whereas there's no time to redirect as it kills you. Yoda even while redirecting force lightning which isn't instantaneous death even at it's greatest showing but is pure force. Even while trying to redirect pure force after Yoda arrives at the same pod Palpatine has been attacking him from the effects still send Yoda back. Yoda in effect despite all his focus couldn't avoid all the force of the effects from it and won't have more than an instant against a spell which kills you with one shot. Even if I agreed with you which I don't Yoda hasn't even been able to resist all the effects/force from Palpatine so I don't see him resisting a powerful blast for long from the Elder wand since it destroyed the combined protective enchantments at Hogwarts.

Yes, I agree he can sidestep it or avoid it but redirect not a chance as I have just explained.

1. Tutaminis doesn’t simply allow Yoda to block or redirect. It can also dissipate the negative energy of an attack. You see Yoda dissipating Dooku’s Force Lightning into nothingness before his palms in AOTC. Therefore, Yoda can dissipate the energy of the Killing Curse if it’s arriving at tremendous pace; however, seeing how he dealt with Sidious’s Force Storm, I’d say it would take some very powerful magic for Yoda to not be able to redirect into a pure energy pulse, and even more stronger for him to not be able to dissipate.

2. It causes instantaneous death if it hits his opponent. Yoda is creating a Force Armor that prevents the attack from making contact with its target. I have shown how Force Lightning and the Killing Curse are similar in style and essence. Therefore, tutaminis is a viable option for Yoda to active to block Avada Kadavra.

3. Yoda could easily dissipate some of the negative energy of Avada Kadavra and then gather the rest and redirect it into a bolt of pure energy. Perhaps Avada Kadavra is unblockable with magical spells, but there’s nothing to suggest a potent energy shield designed to block, dissipate, and redirect the concentrated energy of an attack wouldn’t be efficacious. Tutaminis isn’t specific for Force Lightning- it’s a universal shield designed to absorb harmul concentrated energy.

4. Elder Wand won’t boost Voldemort’s attack. Nuff said.

Yoda can block or dodge it but once he loses his saber he's done for. He can only avoid it for so long and the sheer onslaught Voldemort can bring forth at Yoda unarmed will end very quickly. hell, if Voldemort calls forth the snake I don't see Yoda lasting long. You also have to agree the Crucio Curse would render him defenseless without his saber and make him completely vulnerable. Voldemort can also cut him with a swipe of his wand as well which Yoda cannot block or redirect.

1. Unfortunately for Voldemort, Yoda still has his Force powers and TK to finish the Dark Wizard. And how about the fact that once Voldemort loses his wand, he really is done for.

2. Voldemort can only evade Yoda for so long before he’s TK-ed or cut into mincement by Yoda’s lightsaber. Apart from that 'office scene', you haven’t shown anything else that has Voldemort to be able to keep up with Yoda.

3. There is no proof in the films as to what can happen with a controlled Fiendfyre.

4. Yeah, if Voldemort can even manage to say Crucio and hit Yoda at the same time. He has a tendency to miss opponents that don’t stand nice and still.

I’ll just repeat this again:

"And I'll provide you with some "options" on how easy this duel could be for Yoda. If both opponents are coming in with basic knowledge of the other's abilities, then Yoda knows all he needs to do is disarm Voldemort. For all the options Voldemort has, Yoda can erase them with a simple Force Pull on the Elder Wand the moment both combatants begin fighting. You remember Order 66? Gree and a fellow Clone reveal their weapons and fire, but Yoda had killed them by that point. Similarly, Voldemort swishes his wind and starts his first spell, only to see his wand already out of his hand.

Without higher ground, and Yoda gunning forward to close the 200 feet distance between him and Voldemort, the Dark Wizard will be hard-pressed to maintain a safe distance from the Grand Master. Yoda would continuously put him on the defensive (which would be extremely uncomfortable for a heavily-offensive Voldemort). As soon as this battle begins, and Voldemort fires his expected killing stroke, if Yoda hadn't already disarmed his wand, he'll be in the air advancing fiercely to engage the Dark Wizard in close combat."

And I’ll add that if Voldemort keeps apparating to add distance, then Yoda can just precog/sense his location when he materializes, and then rush him for one-shot TK --> lightsaber slash --> death.

The dark energy from his own spell/etc. can still be used against Yoda. The sheer force would knock him down but it isn't a major contention anyways as knocking him over really doesn't prove he will win the fight on that alone just that he has the power necessary to keep him at bay and off balance while Yoda is fighting for his life.

Yes, the dark energy can be avoided but harry wasn't out in the open against Voldemort at that point and the environment initially played a factor.

Sure, if that dark energy spell can even hit Yoda. And even though the setting in an arena, the fact that Harry was running his back towards Voldemort when the Dark Wizard fired that spell and Potter still managed to jump away shows that Yoda wouldn’t any trouble dodging these spells.

Yes, I agree even if he's hit with the force of this attack it will just keep him off balance which Sidious seemed to effectively have accomplished throwing the pods at him.

I do also agree Yoda's opportunity to defeat Palpatine slipped through his grasp which is why he left. Palpatine also had the higher ground and would have held the advantage once again with all those pods at his disposal had Yoda continued the fight.

There’s a lot of difference between a spell that easily be avoided by side-stepping and dodging massive Senate pods flying at ridiculous speeds. You make a major assumption even saying Yoda can be hit by a spell.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'm saying here Voldemort can casually deflect a spell with his hand only. That's impressive in the Harry Potter verse since we don't really see this happen all that often. Voldemort will be holding his wand the entire time vs. Yoda so I hardly see what the hub bub is all about in terms of how he accomplished the feat.

“Hub bub?” Yes, it makes a difference because we don’t know if Voldemort can perform hand manipulations of spells without the use of a wand. If Yoda knows Voldemort can perform magic with a wand, then he’ll know he has to remove that instrument. Since Yoda has superhuman speed and reflexes, it’s very, very likely that he can Force Pull/Push that wand out of Voldemort’s hand at any time and then proceed to destroy Voldemort with his lightsaber or another TK.

Perhaps Voldemort is capable of some wandless magic and basic hand manipulation of the Force, but without his wand, he will lose this fight.

Quit assuming that because Voldemort only lost his wand in combat due to a random reason that he won’t be able to lose it in this fight.

Yes, Harry was tortured but had recovered from the effects of it and it in no way took away the effectiveness of the spell at all. This wasn't hinted it at all on screen.

What was hinted at was that Harry was tortured and in complete desperation and likely not have been able to perform any spell with the potency he would have in normal conditions. Seriously Quan, there was nothing impressive about it.

1. Ok, I will grant you it isn't explicitly shown where he cut Snape but the fact is HE CUT SNAPE. So wherever his wand is aiming for will be cut. Yoda will have to avoid this seemingly quick attack because otherwise he will be gashed open like Snape was.

Precognition, hello?

2. Snape is there helpless and Voldemort allows Nagini to take it from there. Snape was completely helpless and at Voldemort's mercy. The attack definitely left him in a defenseless state. Voldemort could have Avada Kedavara'd him at any time. Being the Dark Lord that he is he allowed his pet to finish the job.

Well, of course, he didn’t bother resisting before and now he is wounded somewhere in his body. He's especially defenseless now. Fact remains is that all we see is a Sectumsepra on a sitting duck that doesn’t kill its recipient.

You get all nitpicky and dispute Snape's throat being cut but despite no evidence at all being shown in the films pronounce Yoda as some spine destroyer. Yoda tk'd Palpatine and his spine and his health overall weren't affected in the slightest save the force of being tossed back.

No I’m not being “nitpicky.” If I saw blood dripping down Snape’s throat, I would agree that his throat was cut. You were the one who stated his throat was cut, and I contended that it wasn’t explicitly shown where Voldemort cut Snape.

Secondly, you can clearly SEE where the contact region between the wall and the Royal Guards took place- the center of the back at the location of the vertebral column.

Thirdly, I’m not even bother repeating this because I’ve said it way too many times. That whole ‘office scene’ before 2:22 wasn’t combat.

3.Yoda can't resist being slashed. No more than he can resist the effects of Crucio if it hits him. The Sectumsempra spell was only known by Harry Potter and Snape since he had access to his diary. Furthermore we see Harry speak the words every time it is used and we hear no verbal incantations here nor can we determine if Voldemort even knew about the spell so it's unlikely he used it here but due to his powers just cut him with the wave of his wand.

If he "cut him with the wave of his wand," then it is probably Sectumsempra.

Either way you want to look at it Voldemort does it without speaking the verbal words and can achieve this just as easily on Yoda.

Because Yoda will stand still and allow this to happen, of course?

And Yoda just as easily, if not more easily thanks to his bionic speed and reflexes, can nonverbally TK Voldemort onto the ground and knock him unconscious.

4.No, I haven't ignored how he fights in character and am purposely trying to argue what's in character for him. He didn't start the battle against Dumbledore using the basilisk but did to resort to it pretty quickly in so based off of evidence let's say Yoda effectively blocks his energy attacks it's coming or could come right after since that's exactly how quickly Voldemort used it against Dumbledore on screen.

That’s because Dumbledore was standing at a fixed location so Fiendfyre was a viable option to overwhelm the Headmaster.

Why wound Voldemort want to take the time to manipulate and maintain control of a fiery serpent when he sees a blur dodging and rapidly rushing towards him. Will he risk sending his snake dangerously close to his position?

Voldemort won’t bother with Fiendfyre. He’d rather keep chugging other spells then waste time controlling a giant fiery serpent that’ll complete block his visibility on one side.

But anyway, if he does use Fiendfyre, the battle becomes already that much easier for Yoda.

The other abilities are options has done on screen so they are still options he has on the table. I am not citing other characters' feats as his own but simply am piecing together his offensive attacks from the movies and laying them out there as options. I don't believe he will apparate all over the place as that's out of character but do think him doing so once or possibly twice is something he might do just like Yoda might use tk once or possibly twice in an attacking fashion.

That’s exactly my point. Yoda will move so fast for Voldemort that Apparition will be Voldemort’s only defense, but it’s completely out of his character to continuously keep apparating. Furthermore, it's something uncommon in wizard duels where two opponents usually hold their ground and attempt to overwhelm each other with spells.

Me taking attacks out of his combat history and him using them isn't out of character but if I had Voldemort aparating while creating basilisks, and firing the Avada Kedavara, and if that fails trying the cutting attack then this would be completely out of character and how a poster tries to steer the argument in his favor by powerset arguing.

Basically, your ‘fire control’ argument earlier was out of line.

I do remember Order 66 and them approaching him from behind while still believing they had the element of surprise on him. They didn't and Voldemort won't try to get closer to Yoda as they foolishly did. There were only two of them so Yoda reacting while they were under the misconception he was unaware of their motives isn't applicable here.

Then that’s even better for Yoda. At that proximity, the sneak attack still miserably failed and Yoda displayed incredible precognition, Force Sense of hostile intentions, reflexes, and speed. At the distance from which Voldemort will be bombarding spells, Yoda will already be two steps ahead of the attack.

If Yoda was this badass with his tk he'd easily tk Palpatine's light saber out of his hand. No, he doesn't but instead just pushes him across the room the one time he caught him off guard. He won't be catching Voldemort off guard as Voldemort won't be giving a speech like Palpatine did right before he was hit with the attack.

Because he wasn’t "badass with his tk" at the beginning of the video .

Again, Palpatine is the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith and has abilities equivalent to Yoda. He has the matching precog/speed/reflexes to prevent Yoda from TK’ing his lightsaber out of his hands.

And that ‘office scene’ wasn’t combat. I swear I repeated this a dozen times already...

I argue it consistently and just because we see Voldemort tk Harry's wand out of his hands that doesn't mean he can do it at will he needs to catch Harry off guard just like Yoda needs to catch those off guard he hits with tk.

Because some of the best bodyguards the galaxy can offer would not be ready for someone they can hear leisurely making his way to the Emperor’s office.

And 9.6/10 Yoda will catch Voldemort off guard (thanks to his superhuman speed and reflexes) than vice versa since Yoda has advanced precog/sense at his disposal.

Voldemort will have Yoda pressed right out of the gate with his energy blasts. Yoda will be hard pressed to gain the ground when he could send a basilisk after him after his initial blasts fail to hit him. Then Yoda has to worry about it and has to go on the defensive. I also don't see a problem with Voldemort apparating once since he has while in direct combat effectively re-establishing the distance between the two.

Again, absolutely no proof that Voldemort can use multiple spells while maintain control of Fiendfyre. And no proof that Voldemort can also apparate and maintain control of Fiendfyre.

And right out of the gate, Yoda, with the precog/sense to ‘see’ Voldemort will attempt to hit him with a spell coming from his wand, can, with his much faster reflexes and speed, just TK Voldemort or the instrument out of his hand then finish off the Dark Wizard from there.

I've already pointed out far less speedier movements from Palpatine have caught Yoda off guard and hit him/or the effects have still hit Yoda as well despite his best efforts to completely redirect the force. Voldemort's quick wrist like movements are going to make it very difficult for Yoda who seems to struggle with force lightning.

Readers, you guys are going to have to judge whether this ‘office’ scene is reflective of Yoda’s actual reflexes and speed in combat. Quan and I will never be able to see eye to eye on this, I feel.

Yoda has never disarmed an opposing/experienced jedi's lightsaber before nor has Voldemort ever been disarmed by an opposing wizard's tk. The likelihood of Yoda hitting him an attack will have the same effect on Voldemort as it did on Palpatine in the movies. It will knock him back. Unlike Yoda and his lack of disarming movie feats at least Voldemort has effectively disarmed someone through tk while Yoda's claims to fame are tking huge inanimate objects or force pushing someone.

I find your lack of respect to Yoda disturbing.

Voldemort’s TK of Harry was utterly unimpressive no matter the way you look at the situation.

Yoda has used TK to incapacitate Clones and Royal Guards. Him not being able to TK Sidious and Dooku (one of whom he didn’t even want to kill), two of the strongest individuals shown in the films, doesn’t mean he won’t be able to TK someone who has far less reflexes and speed with no precognition to sense a telekinetic maneuver .

Yes, a lightsaber throw is a risk maneuver. If Yoda missed or Voldemort wards it off with energy blasts or what not Yoda is effectively weaponless and is a sitting duck. Yoda also with a lightsaber struggled with warding off a force lightning attack with his saber so it won't be easily accomplished since Voldemort will be sending all kinds of hell at him and in quick succession.

FALSE!!!

1. Yoda is not a sitting duck without his lightsaber.

2. Yoda returned from lower ground and landed on a precarious position before he was immediately bombarded by an attack that sent a master Jedi careening across Coruscant. 9.6/10 Yoda will be the one surprising Voldemort, not vice-versa.

3. Potter had no trouble dodging the “all kinds of hell” that Voldemort sent at him “in quick succession.” And neither will Yoda because the Grand Master has superhuman reflexes and speed and advanced precognition and senses.

I don't think he's screwed here due to the fact his dark robes will be effective if they grab a hold of Yoda but granted I don't see this as a likely option either as I believe Yoda will be dead before he ever gets this up close and personal.

A bold and untrue assumption. Yoda will up in Voldemort’s face with a lightsaber in no time or will be in range to unleash a debilitating TK.

Another example of Harry greatly benefiting from the environment and the sheer confusion of Voldemort. Voldemort had just experienced his greatest triumph and gloat over those who opposed him at the school to just see Harry Potter get up and scurry off before his eyes. Harry also quickly got behind something a wall I believe off memory and evade him for the time being. Yoda won't benefit from the environment of Hogwarts just like Voldemort won't benefit from the Ministry room.

Potter ran between stone pillars that had large openings for Voldemort to blast fireballs at Harry. The time that it took Voldemort to fire spells in rapid succession was too slow to hit an opponent that didn’t bother standing still.

Yoda, with his speed, would have no difficulty avoiding Voldemort's ranged attacks.

How does Voldemort need to up his reflexes when far less in terms of movie time has hit Yoda and temp ko'd him. Slowly raising your hands against someone you know is going to kill you and blasting him isn't an impressive showing of precog. This is a legit showing of Yoda being caught by an obvious attack against a highly skilled opponent with a ranged attack similar to Voldemort. Voldemort has many more options than energy blasts though along with more abilities. If Yoda gets hit once with Avada Kedavra it's a kill shot.

Wild Yoda appears!
Wild Yoda uses Force Valor!
Wild Yoda’s evasiveness, speed, attack, strength, and health sharply increases!
Wild Yoda uses Quick Attack!
It’s super effective!
Voldemort faints!

OR

Voldemort uses Avada Kadavra!
But the attack missed!
Wild Yoda uses Close Combat!
It’s super effective!
Voldemort faints!

OR

Voldemort uses Avada Kadavra!
But the attack missed!
Wild Yoda uses Telekinesis!
It’s super effective!
Voldemort faints!

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. How is it a fault argument ? I am only using it to display how unsuccessful his precog is. Voldemort wasn't ready for Harry Potter either when he tk'd the wand out of his hand but rather reacted accordingly when he realized it. Yoda also didn't adjust his hands to redirect it as he could have showing precog for all intents and purposes can even miss the obvious. Harry also didn't slowly raise his wand up to Voldemort like Palpatine did to Yoda.

I have already explained this, but here I say it again:

1. It wasn’t a combat situation. The Battlezone and this thread assume both opponents are prepared for a fight.
2. It was a plot-driven sequence designed to set up the fight that takes place in the Senate Hall.

2.You can't have it both ways. Harry Potter surviving and dodging Voldemort's attacks are drawing out the epic confrontation between the two as well. I argue on what happens alone not the subjectivity how the director was trying to create a sense of lasting drama.

That’s a faulty defense. Potter and Voldemort were engaged in combat, with one clearly trying to kill the other. Yoda and Sidious don’t start fighting till both of them ignite their lightsabers.

3.Yes, but Yoda only has two showings against two highly skilled opponents. One can't ignore how pitiful and how obvious what Palpatine was planning on doing with his hands. Did Yoda honestly think he was going to clap or give him the finger ?

If Yoda isn’t in battle mode, then he hasn’t activated his Force Valor to overcome his elderly infirmities. Therefore, he would have the reflexes and speed of an 880 year old of his species, which would roughly translate to the reflexes and speed of an 88 year old human being. Do you expect an 88 year old man to evade an extremely fast lightning bolt?

Palpatine had the power to conceal his Dark Side persona and block any Jedi Force Sense on his true nature. For all we know, he could have very blocked Yoda’s precognition. And even if that isn’t the case, Sidious clearly didn’t intend on killing Yoda, otherwise he wouldn’t have just released a teasing bolt but rather unleashed a storm. There wasn’t a truly hostile intention from the get-go, and as a result no reason for Yoda to kick in Force Valor.

And honestly, your argument here leads nowhere. Yes, if Yoda wasn’t in battle-mode and didn’t use Force Valor, an 8-year old could beat him up.

THE BATTLEZONE AND THIS THREAD HAS YODA PREPARED TO FIGHT. THEREFORE, HIS OLD AGE FRAILTIES WON’T BE PLAYING A FACTOR WHATOSEVER!

Yes, he dodges the senate pods but this shouldn't even be an issue since his precog is supposedly this good and factoring in the distance between the pods from Yoda. Yoda was fighting for his life he wasn't in control at all. When Voldemort was fighting against Dumbledore who sported the most powerful wand in existence he still looked firmly in control while Dumbledore looked like he was trying to keep up.

WTF? I’d like to see Voldemort’s vaunted reflexes and speed that you keep touting fare against the rapid succession of high velocity repulsorpods.

And please, Dumbledore never “looked like he was trying to keep up” against Voldemort. In fact, if it wasn’t for Harry trying to walk into the fray, the Headmaster wouldn’t have broken his concentration and would have drowned the Dark Wizard in his aqua bubble.

In an earlier post I explained the weather and the wind also had something to do with it as well as the duration under the force lightning Windu experienced. Palpatine hit Yoda with force lightning at the start of their fight and didn't go back more than twenty feet let alone the hundred or so feet you're claiming was all due to force lightning. It shows Yoda needs proper leverage to wield off energy attacks and despite having it where he wanted it this still didn't save his lightsaber from falling.

Watch the video over and over again. Palpatine fired a teasing bolt [; he wasn’t going all out. And for crying out loud, they were not fighting.

It doesn't contradict anything these aren't simulations these are characters who can fall victim to certain attacks and repel certain ones. It's like saying the new England Patriots defeat by The jets in the playoffs shouldn't stand since prior to New England routed them. Yoda while incredibly skilled can be hit and has been hit. He was hit by two force lightning attacks and was unsuccessful in critically injuring Palpatine.

He was hit by one Force Lightning in a moment where he wasn’t prepared for combat and his aged infirmities played a significant factor.

And he was never hit by Sidious’s Force Storm in actual combat; he successfully applied tutaminis to block and redirect the blast.

I don't see Voldemort as being the one who will be pressed here I see him easily overwhelming Yoda with his ranged attacks. But he does have the option of apparating which will create distance provided Yoda closes in on him.

Again, you fail to consider Yoda’s superhuman reflexes and speed and advanced senses and precognition. Apart from the ‘office scene,’ which is contradicted by all other of Yoda’s showings and isn’t reflective of the Grand Master’s combat prowess, you have zero evidence as to how Voldemort will manage to keep up with a tiny creature that’s essentially moving as a blur and can easily reach close distance to slash him with a lightsaber or disarm/incapacitate him with telekinesis within a particular range.

You won’t be convincing anyone by saying “I see him easily overwhelming Yoda with ranged attacks” if you cannot provide any counterevidence as to how Voldemort can kill someone who can ‘see’ his attack ahead in the future, can ‘see’ where the Dark Wizard apparates, can dodge/block attacks instantly, and can move far, far faster than Voldemort’s senses can sustain.

It’s like me having a shotgun and attempting to kill a rabbit that’s moving at a bionic speed. No matter how powerful are my bullets, they are useless if my target knows where I am aiming and is two steps ahead with insane speed backing it up. Not only that, apart from the fact that this rabbit can cut me in half with its razor sharp teeth, it can also snatch the shotgun out of my hands or throw me at any time and knock me out cold. Furthermore, if I do happen to have it within my sights and fire my bullet, it has the power to stop it and even send it back to me. Lovely

Voldemort apparated against Harry Potter so why won't he apparate here ? I mean he's already done so on film and he isn't fighting a wizard anyways so what he does against wizards really carries no weight against what he would do against a jedi.

You yourself conceded that Voldemort won’t be apparating left and right because it’s out of character, even though that’s the only move he can do if he wishes to stand a chance in this fight.

[Voldemort may be arrogant but he is indeed intelligent and suffered no shortcomings against Dumbledore. He fought intelligently and for the kill against Dumbledore without any of these supposed shortcomings coming into play.

I only see him needing to use it once at most if that as this fight should be over pretty quickly.

200 feet/60 meters is chum change for someone like Yoda who can jump multiple stories in seconds. The Grand Master can close distances very quickly for a TK or a lightsaber assault. It’s hilarious to read that you think that Voldemort only needs to apparate once to kill Yoda.

You can't have it both ways. You just attributed the dark side type aspect of himself giving Voldemort away but it also clouds the Force. It also failed Yoda when Palpatine started off the battle he obviously raised his hands to attack him. If Yoda can't see this blatant attack coming don't presume he will be all over Voldemort's next move.

1. Palpatine, as a result of his own powers, obscured the aura of the Dark Side within him for decades, until the very end of the Clone Wars. He was a master at cloaking.
2. But, in battle, Yoda would be able to clearly sense his malicious goal to kill(and no, that ‘office scene’ wasn’t malicious because Sidious was taunting, not trying to kill Yoda- it wasn’t combat) him.
3. Voldemort has no ability to hide his malevolent intentions or mask his intense Dark Side permeations. Thus, Yoda will be all over Voldemort’s next move.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's all fine and dandy but it's impossible to gauge if we went by Lucas' supposed jedi point of view. I argue based on what the films show me just like a Twilight vampire is shown on film with blurry speed then I will give their speed another gear but if it isn't shown then I won't just give into George Lucas who seems to change his mind when the wind blows.

I get exactly what you're saying but it makes it impossible to gauge and all guesswork due to Lucas' words alone which are subject to change.

I explained this earlier. However, if you are not convinced, I am inclined to think that others following this debate would see the logical basis behind the Jedi POV argument.

2.Yes, I realize Count Dooku was highly skilled. I already discussed earlier despite this Anakin destroys him the moment he lets loose his rage onto him. Yoda didn't disarm Count Dooku as decisively or as easily as Anakin did despite being imo a better fighter than Anakin. Anakin didn't kill hm to beat him he killed him after disarming him only through Palpatine's goading. Yoda still had ample time to do so. Yes, Yoda probably would have won if the fight had played it but Yoda not being able to do so or being unable to stop Dooku's tk attack without taking a tremendous amount of time and focus is unforgivable.

Did you completely ignore what I wrote before? Yoda had no intention to slay his ”old Padawan”. Secondly, how did Yoda have ample time to disarm Dooku? The man broke a pillar that was about to fall onto Kenobi and Skywalker. Yoda, at his height, cannot disarm Dooku from a saber lock. The dynamics of swordfighting change with the styles of your opponents. Yoda, at his position, would have to perform an aerial maneuver if he wished to remove Dooku’s lightsaber. And that would risk precious time to prevent the pillar from crushing Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Furthermore, Anakin, with an intent to kill, disarmed Dooku that quickly; there’s nothing to suggest that if he didn’t have this purpose, like Yoda, he would have lacerated the Count’s hands that rapidly.

3.Yoda had to break from the fight to concentrate just like he did against the pod thrown right at him in the senate chamber due to it's immense size. That's why it took Yoda all that time. It's obvious the heavier the object the more focus and concentration it takes.

No, they are completely different situations. Yoda, being the paragon Jedi, would never gamble the lives of his fellow compatriots. He had to be positive that the pillar wouldn’t accidently roll over Skywalker and Kenobi.

And since a human being isn’t exactly heavy, and we are assured Voldemort won’t be firing X-wings at Yoda, Yoda won’t need deep focus or concentration to fling the Dark Wizard like a ragdoll.

4.Yoda can easily and quickly finish off unskilled opponents far beneath his pay grade. My argument has always been an exceptional opponent he doesn't for the kill and isn't aggressive enough.

How can you make such an absurd assumption? The Royal Guards and 501st Clone Troopers were skilled elite combatants (that are stronger, faster, and quicker than Voldemort physically) that Yoda easily dismantled.

Against Dooku, Yoda wasn’t going for the kill.

And against Sidious, he was exceptionally aggressive .The Dark Lord of the Sith was overwhelmed by the pace of Yoda’s attacks to the extent that he had to flee to higher ground (which isn’t available in this duel). And did you see YODA’S EYES during the ‘lightning exchange’; that clearly reflected a man with a definite ‘killer edge.’

5.I honestly don't see Yoda dominating Palpatine at all. They seemed dead even to me but Palpatine just needed to survive this conflict so separating and gaining higher ground benefited him two fold. He had the higher ground and it increased his chances of survival creating space between the two. Yoda sought out his death Palpatine knew if he survived this they wouldn't have another chance and that Yoda could do nothing further to stop Palpatine's plans.

Are you kidding me? Look at this:
Domination
Look at Sidious’s reaction at 2:12 – it’s clearly the visage of one who is struggling.
Look at Yoda’s reaction at 2:14- it’s clearly the countenance of who is aggressive (“bring it beotch!”).

How does Yoda win in that energy exchange ? It ends up hitting them both and Yoda hits the dirt not Palpatine. So to me I see Yoda as temporarily resisting only to affect him in the end and for it also to affect Palpatine as well. since Palpatine held onto the pod he definitely won that exchange since neither of them were critically hurt.

Are you for real? Watch that video above and watch it again, taking note of the facial expressions of Yoda (3:27) vs. Sidious (3:28-3:29). Yoda has utilized tutaminis to take control of the Force Storm and redirect into pure energy that had Sidious overpowered. You see Yoda directing the counterattack at 3:31, which causes the explosion at 3:32 from the sheer chaos and power of the exchange. Yoda definitely won that sequence. The movie explicitly depicts his victory.

How can you possibly say Palpatine won that exchange? That makes absolutely no sense- you’re just trying to find a way to downplay Yoda. Yoda, being lightweight, would of course experience some recoil; unfortunately, he was right at the ledge of the repulsorpod, and that’s why he fell hundreds of feet.

I am not referencing the higher ground as any advantage Voldemort needs only attacking Yoda's mindset when he knows fully well he's at a disadvantage against Palpatine and allowing such a mistake in the first place despite being more elusive/mobile than Palpatine.

Sidious slaughtered 3 members of the Jedi Council in 9 seconds and only lost to Mace after an extended battle because Windu utilizes Vapaad, which is effectual against Dark Side practitioners. He was Dooku’s (who himself was a master swordsman) greater, and matched Yoda toe to toe until he had flee to higher ground to avoid being overwhelmed.

Fact of the matter is that Sidious is considerably faster (and I certainly mean a lot ) than Voldemort, and there should be nothing held against Yoda for him fleeing to higher ground. And Yoda is slightly quicker than Sidious.

Yes, I understand this. I also understand all three times Yoda moved a huge object he needed his complete concentration and an assload of time to do so. Every single time so despite him needing to stop the momentum there are other examples of the drawn out process taking place each time this occurs.

1. Therefore, for him to TK a human would occur instantly…
2. …such as the two times where he handled the Royal Guards and the Clone troopers.
3. Jedi POV for the TK feats in the duels.

I've already explained to you there were other factors present in the Windu force lightning feat and he's hit Yoda with it before and it sent him nowhere near that distance.

That you did. You made Yoda’s feat even more remarkable. And Sidious hit him with a bolt, not a continuous lightning barrage. Quit confusing the two.

No, Yoda failing himself to kill Palpatine which he himself readily admits is on him. Yoda had the chance and failed. Yoda had the chance against the Count and failed. Two other jedi succeeded where he failed. It's point blank and doesn't get any more crystal clear. When Yoda is matched up with greatly skilled opponents it's a long fight he isn't aggressive enough to win/kill within a short amount of time unless fighting someone far below the skills of a jedi.

Yoda won't have time to doubt himself or think of anything other than evading for his life against Voldemort who will pour it on from start to finish.

I’m slightly infuriated at the fact that you did not read anything I stated on this subject in my first rebuttal.

Yoda didn’t want to kill Dooku. He was battling someone he had a close connection with, for crying out loud.

Secondly, if you didn’t realize, Episode III is part of the Prequel Trilogy, and therefore Sidious is supposed to live. Therefore, as well as the Grand Master fought, Yoda is plot-driven to not be able to kill the Sith Lord.

And as I said before, Yoda realized before he redirected the Senate pod that the Sith had adapted and succeeded while the Jedi Order under his leadership had remained static. Hence, the Sith could not be defeated that day regardless of the duel’s outcome, and the Grand Master understood that he had lost the fight before it even began. That coupled with the arrival of Clone troopers forced him to retreat. Despite the thoughts that raged through the Jedi’s mind, Yoda still was aggressive to the degree that he was ‘winning’ the lightsaber contest (since Sidious had to flee to higher ground) and later ‘won’ the lightning/energy exchange.

Finally Yoda’s statement of, “Failed, I have,” is a reference to his bitter disappointment that he couldn’t instigate positive change within the Order and allowed the Sith to destroy the Jedi Knights under his leadership.

The burdens, doubts, and thoughts that plagued Yoda’s mind in both of those fights will be completely absent in this duel against Voldemort. He will fight without any reservations and will even be more deadly than he was against the two Sith Lords.

Your argument that he isn’t “aggressive enough” is simply invalid.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.Yes, they took longer a lot longer meaning they aren't applicable here. Him force pushing his opponents has done nothing than hurt them by pushing them back and koing unsuspecting guards.

The purpose behind drawing light to these examples is to show how much raw power Yoda has for offensive and defensive telekinesis.

2.Yes, but the guards weren't ready for it whereas harry initially attacked Voldemort first.

On the contrary, the guards were ready for an intruder. And even if they were “ready” to the nth degree, nothing would be able to impede the TK’KO that Yoda let loose with a casual wave of his hand.

3.Not going to fly here with the POV stuff. That calls everything they do on screen into question and has all just guessing how fast on everything.

Even without considering Jedi POV, what Yoda demonstrates on-screen is still more than enough to own Voldemort.

4.It sure seemed quick against Harry. Yoda can tk about just as quick as Voldemort by moving his hands/wrist. Yoda tking out the guards or tking Palpatine didn't seem any more impressive and unlike bot of those situations neither Palpatine nor the guards were trying to attack when they got hit by it.

Yoda has metahuman speed and reflexes. Voldemort does not. Ergo, Yoda can TK objects and humans faste than Voldemort.

How is him “tking out the guards” not impressive?They never get back up. As visible as it is onscreen, even if Yoda didn’t break their spines, he causes them to be in some pseudo-coma state for who knows how long.

Yoda won't be jumping through different levels off a school or hiding behind walls. Yoda will be out in the open and when Harry was Voldemort was all over him. How often did Yoda ever evade force lightning ? Did he ever ? That brings up a serious point since it doesn't even seem like Yoda was fast enough to evade it just to block it, get hit by it, or try to redirect it.

1. Yoda will not just be running laps around Voldemort or scampering for his life like Harry Potter. He’s an offensive player who will moving with bionic pace to engage the Dark Wizard in close combat. Even against Sidious, when he had to employ defensive TK to stop and redirect the Senate pod, his overall intention was to use the repulsorpod to distract the Sith Lord so he can resume fighting him in close quarters.
2. I cannot quantify the exact range when Yoda’s TK can be utilized but the fact that he can jump stories in seconds demonstrates he can be within range to hit Voldemort as soon as the battle commences.
3. If the TK doesn’t manage to KO Voldemort (which I don’t see how it wouldn’t, since it takes out other humanoids rather handily), it would certainly remove the Deathstick (which, I would think, would be quite glad to be out old Voldy’s grimy hands lol), thereby leaving Yoda an open avenue to slaughter the Dark Wizard.
4. Hmm, let’s see. He blocked and redirected Force Lightning both times against Dooku and Sidiousin combat.

Neville was actively opposing Voldemort and was ko'd with one shot. He was ready for battle so the excuse of him being unaware doesn't fly. Now had Neville been standing up guarding something and been blasted unaware of Voldemort's presence then you'd have a point but since he's charging into battle you don't.

What? Neville was standing still, something Yoda will certainly not be doing.

2.Then you admit his precog is off and won't react to every attack. Voldemort wasn't holding his wand up to Harry when he tried to attack Voldemort but was more than quick enough to react when he turned around. If Yoda's precog is so good why couldn't or didn't he react to the obvious attack ?

This is ridiculous. Your only major argument has been to fall back to this lowest showing in which Yoda isn’t even ready for battle.

3.Don't worry it will since force lightning has hit him I see no reason as to think it's ludicrous that the Avada Kedavra won't.

You go ahead and convince yourself that since the evidence indicates that Yoda blocked and redirected all lightning blasts in combat. This is once again based on Yoda’s lowest showing in the ‘office scene’ where Yoda isn’t prepared to fight.

Did Yoda ever successfully block force lightning with his lightsaber ? Not one time yet the only time he did attempt to he lost his saber yet you're completely convinced He easily can deflect Voldemort's attacks without any proof of him even doing so within his own films.

Y’know, I showed in my opening argument that Jedi can block Force Lightning with a lightsaber, and by extension, other concentrated energy attacks via tutaminis. You see Obi-Wan doing it, and you see Mace Windu doing it. Unless you are going to argue now that Yoda’s lightsaber is of a different composition that fails to similarly block these types of attacks, then yes, Yoda can block with his saber.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The killing curse kills you instantly so he won't be alive to redirect it. We also don't even see him completely redirect the force lightning as the blast hits the both of them despite Yoda's best efforts to completely redirect it back at Palpatine.

It kills you if it hits your body, but it won’t kill you if there is a Force-protecting armor that can dissipate/absorb the harmful energy and allow a master practitioner to gather the raw energy and redirect it into a pure energy pulse. In Yoda v. Sidious, the energy exchange between both of them built up to a critical level, and caused the explosion that catapulted both backwards.

Yes, Dooku's lightning seemed weaker than even Palpatine's whom Luke survived despite the duration of the attacks on him and to which Yoda couldn't even completely redirect against Palpatine alone. Weak sauce.

Weak sauce?. Dooku’s Force Lightning would smash Voldemort’s skeletal body against the ground. Sidious’s Force Storm would ravage him.

1.Yoda's never disarmed any skilled opponent with tk in his own films and Voldemort's never been disarmed by another wizard's tk so the only logical conclusion is it doesn't happen here. You criticize me for saying Voldemort can't start out the fight with a basilisk since in Order of the Phoenix it's his second attack but then by the same token you can't argument for Yoda to suddenly disarm his opponents main weapon despite never doing so himself in his own movies. If he tks it's usually in self defense of force pushing someone. That's fair and consistent to how we've been arguing this from the start.

That’s a logical fallacy, if I ever saw one. Just because it doesn’t happen it won’t happen in this fight?

If Yoda knows Voldemort can do magic with a wand, the first thing he’ll do after he dodges the first attack [that he knew was coming] would be to disarm his foe’s instrument. He will employ an unavoidable/unblockable offensive TK similar to what he utilized against the Royal Guards and the Clone troopers.

Yoda isn’t stupid. He can sense the powerful Dark ripples in the Force pervaded by Voldemort. He isn’t going to waste time allowing the wizard to conjure up a fiery snake. He will aim to end this battle very quickly.

2.There's no proof anyone's spine was broken and those guards were completely unaware. Yoda didn't even really hurt Palpatine by his force tk attack so I really don't think you have a leg to stand on. Voldemort can keep him busy with his offensive powers, send a basilisk at him, use tk of his own, etc. Take your pick. Yoda also despite effectively tking Palpatine doesn't keep doing so. It's not in character just like Voldemort won't keep trying to knock Yoda's lightsaber out from him with his own tk when Yoda starts jumping around. I'm consistent to what I see on film I don't create feats which were never done on film and argue that way.

Do you realize by the time Voldemort is finished chuckling conjuring up his fiery serpent and ready to command it, Yoda could have already disarmed his wind, incapacitated him, or be close to finishing him with a lightsaber?

And you do understand how little time Voldemort has in general? Remember how I stated in my opening argument that Yoda would see the Dark Wizard similar to a Clone trooper. Let us return to that.

These magical spells are slow enough for human wizards to be able to sidestep. Therefore, they are not as rapid as bullets; logically, the blasts from the futuristic Star Wars guns are likely faster than bullets. Jedi are able to dodge gunfire and have the reflexes to block them; Yoda himself simultaneously engaged at least 9 Clones from the 501st, evading all of the fire and crippling/killing all of them with his lightsaber or with telekinesis. When Yoda senses how the strong the shroud of the Dark Side is within Voldemort, he isn’t going to wait for “Voldemort to keep him busy with his offensive powers.” He’s going to dodge the one or two spells the Dark Wizard will fire at him thanks to his advanced precognition and senses, rush forward with his herculean speed and immediately use telekinesis to either knock out the Elder Wand or the wizard himself- it’s the most effective technique and one that Yoda, an experienced combatant, would exploit.

The only way for Voldemort to survive would if he apparates in time. Of course, when he materializes, Yoda would have Force Sense-d his arrival and evaded the incoming attack thanks to his precognition. And then the same scenario will repeat. You yourself admitted that spam-Apparition is out of character for Voldemort- thus, it’s only a matter of time (if not within the first 30-45 seconds of the fight) before the Elder Wand is disarmed and a lightsaber is rammed through Voldemort’s chest.

3.I've seen Voldemort move and likewise Yoda move. Yoda isn't a blur nor have his reactions been bullet speed or anywhere else. Yoda deflecting a laser blast to me is similar to Voldemort deflecting or parrying an offensive blast from an opposing wizard. They both are highly skilled and happen to be at the top of the class from their respective universes.

Even if you can make the assumption that magical fire rate = blaster fire rate (which I think is slightly unreasonable), in the Jedi Incursion on the Temple, Yoda was able to dodge multiple blaster fire coming in from all directions and still rush forward and eliminate his opposition. His movement > > Voldemort at his quickest.

Just like if his saber falls down he will have to worry about Voldemort's attacks which will probably be coming right for Yoda who has never ever evaded force lightning.

Harry Potter wiki also has to do with the books as well they don't differentiate from the movies and the books and it becomes a tangled mess. When do you hear him say Avada Kedavra ? I've never heard him say it against Dumbledore. I don't own the movie so I can't subtitle it. If you can't prove he says it within the subtitle option then he doesn't try to use it against Dumbledore as it has to be spoken.

If that’s the case, then we don’t know if that flame incantation was Fiendfyre because I certainly don’t hear Voldemort yelling, “FIENDFYRE! NYEAHHH!” .

The movies are adaptations of the books, and it’s very likely they would have Voldemort opening with an attack that happened in the book and is his trademark go-to option when interacting with others.

I agree he uses it a lot I just don't see him doing it at all against Dumbledore in the Order of the Phoenix scene nor do I see him use it against Snape, or Neville. If it fails to hit or connect expect a lot of other attacks not just repeated Avada Kedavra attacks.

Sure, except he won’t have the time for “a lot of other attacks”.

You're trying to ham up Yoda's showings of taking out two troopers while excusing an equally skilled opponent blasting him and then excusing it as furthering the plot. Precog should put his mind in battle mode since it was obvious even to me what Palpatine's intentions were here.

No, I have not made any “excuses.” Anyone reading my arguments would know that the Royal Guards were prepared and that they, along with the 501st and Voldemort, have no way of defending against an immediate telekinetic wave.

Anyone reading my arguments would also know that you are trying to cheapen Yoda by constantly relying on a plot-driven scene that involved no combat and had Yoda not ready for a fight. The Battlezone assumes combatants are in battle-mode and doesn’t consider their lowest showing.

Blatantly untrue. I have also gone into detail about how warped your view is with regards to Yoda lifting huge objects with his tk which requires all his focus and I have also established it isn't in character for Yoda to tk his opponent into submission or disarm a skilled opponent since he's never done so on film. My arguments are based off what Voldemort has done on film and varying it while you criticize me for having him use Fiendfyre while at the same time argue Yoda just tk disarms him or breaks his spine which is completely unsupportable. If you want to argue based on powersets alone and their abilities Voldemort absolutely destroys Yoda due to apparating and sending fire creatures at him.

1. Again, there is zero proof on what can be possible in a controlled Fiendfyre. And I have already argued against this in much greater detail above.

2. Yes, it is in character for Yoda to TK his opponents into submission.

I don't want to argue based off of abilities but rather what's in character and it isn't in character for Yoda to disarm his opponents since he's never done so. Yoda can force push him as he's done so in the films so that's an agreeable option and something supportable by the films as he's done it.

No, it is in character. When Yoda fights the 501st, his offensive TK also hurls the weapon out of the Clone Trooper’s hands. Therefore, Yoda can very much apply TK to disarm the Dark Wizard.

You seem to forget Voldemort's duel with Dumbledore which is by far his most impressive showing. Harry Potter survived due to loads of help from his dead parents, Dumbledore, the Elder wand not rightfully being his, and his mother's initial protective spell. Harry should have been dead multiple times had he not had aid. Yoda doesn't have the luxury of surviving an Avada Kedavra or having a horcrux built into him like Harry does.

LOL? This is completely irrelevant. Unlike your regard for Yoda, I have always acknowledged Voldemort as having tremendous firepower. And what about his duel with Dumbledore?

Hmm, perhaps I’ll play by your game. ..

…Since Voldemort failed to kill his two primary adversaries, Harry Potter and Dumbledore, he lacks the killer edge to finish off his opponents. Ergo, Voldemort doesn’t have what’s necessary to defeat Yoda.

Also Yoda hasn't evaded force lightning or successfully blocked it on screen. Now I think he can but acting like it's easily done is another matter altogether so it isn't a foregone conclusion that Yoda just easily dodges and blocks what Voldemort unleashes on him. If Voldemort sends Fiendfyre after him it ends quickly. Yoda has no way to slay the fire magic.

Have you forgotten how easily he blocked Dooku’s Force Lightning? And sorry, by the time Voldemort blasts his first two Killing Curses that Yoda dodges, this duel could very much be over with the Grand Master victorious.