Originally posted by ADarksideJediAgain, I never said otherwise.
And I had said that Fetus are still alive...
and that no matter if people believe it or not they are murdering a human being...They are killing an incomplete, human-shaped mass of cells that would one day become a human being. This is why abortion is controversial, and why the right of the mother -- a real person -- comes first.
BTW, everytime you have sex with birth control, that's another potential human being you are preventing from having a life.
Originally posted by TacDaveyPsychologically, yes, at least in the context of this thread. There's a mental construct, a symbolic self, an ego "housed" in a self-sustaining body. The fetus has neither this construct nor self-sustainability.
What does that mean? She can think of herself as I? That's what it means to be a person?
Originally posted by Mindship
Psychologically, yes, at least in the context of this thread. There's a mental construct, a symbolic self, an ego "housed" in a self-sustaining body. The fetus has neither this construct nor self-sustainability.
That still seems a little vague. Don't animals have a "self" that is housed in a body? What is a "symbolic self"?
As for self-sustaining, a person who is on life support is no less a person.
Originally posted by dadudemon
All you have to do is classify/declassify the organism as "not human" or "sub human" and abortion is justified. That's pretty much what it all boils down to.People disagree on that classification.
Exactly. If you want to classify something as "sub human" or "not human" there should be a valid reason why, though.
Originally posted by TacDaveyThat animals have a sense of self was exactly my point earlier: theirs is concrete (sensory-emotional), while humans' are more abstract (eg, monetary worth). May I suggest googling "developmental psychology." It's pretty cool stuff, especially its holistic nature.
That still seems a little vague. Don't animals have a "self" that is housed in a body? What is a "symbolic self"?
Originally posted by TacDaveyAgreed, generally, given this is really vague.
As for self-sustaining, a person who is on life support is no less a person.
Originally posted by dadudemonYup, and I am addressing it as it relates to this thread.
All you have to do is classify/declassify the organism as "not human" or "sub human" and abortion is justified. That's pretty much what it all boils down to.People disagree on that classification.
For what it's worth: abortion should be a last resort with many factors taken into consideration (the mental/physical status of the mother, finances, etc). I would never say it's "alright"; at best, it simply may be the more practical option, given the factors mentioned. And any woman who deliberately uses it as birth control...as far as I'm concerned, she forfeits her right to reproduce.
Originally posted by Mindship
For what it's worth: abortion should be a last resort with many factors taken into consideration (the mental/physical status of the mother, finances, etc). I would never say it's "alright"; at best, it simply may be the more practical option, given the factors mentioned. And any woman who deliberately uses it as birth control...as far as I'm concerned, she forfeits her right to reproduce.
I agree with this line of reasoning, too. I hold life as sacred. That includes non-human animals, as well.
That also means that I am shying away from the death penalty.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No, that's not how language works.mur·der   [mur-der] Show IPA
noun
1.
Law . the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law.So a) you have to show that the fetus is a human being under the law and b) you have to show that it is covered by the law.
Neither of these are true in the US, as abortion is legal, and it is therefore not murder.
q.e.d.
In Mississippi, a group is trying to pass an amendment stating that life starts when an egg is fertilized...including cloning and such. 😬
If passed, it will make Plan B illegal. 🙁
Originally posted by AbnormalButSane
In Mississippi, a group is trying to pass an amendment stating that life starts when an egg is fertilized...including cloning and such. 😬If passed, it will make Plan B illegal. 🙁
Well, the US is currently undergoing a right wing backlash, but don't worry, it's just their death jerks as they go away forever.
Either way, that law would obviously be against Roe vs. Wade, lets just hope that the conservative Supreme Court is not going to overturn it, which seems to be a fair many people have.
Originally posted by Mindship
Again, I never said otherwise.They are killing an incomplete, human-shaped mass of cells that would one day become a human being. This is why abortion is controversial, and why the right of the mother -- a real person -- comes first.
BTW, everytime you have sex with birth control, that's another potential human being you are preventing from having a life.
I don't use birth control
Originally posted by Mindship
For what it's worth: abortion should be a last resort with many factors taken into consideration (the mental/physical status of the mother, finances, etc). I would never say it's "alright"; at best, it simply may be the more practical option, given the factors mentioned. And any woman who deliberately uses it as birth control...as far as I'm concerned, she forfeits her right to reproduce.
Alright, I agree with this for the most part.
Re: Abortion dystopia #5823: Women deliberately conceiving and then aborting.
Originally posted by Zeal Ex NihiloThe woman can pay for thousands of dollars of IVF but not take care of two children. A consumerist lifestyle taking precedence over moral behavior; artificiality of the pregnancy justifying grotesque behavior. [/B]
Shit bloke you autistic right wing loser troll!
So a) you have to show that the fetus is a human being under the law and b) you have to show that it is covered by the law.Neither of these are true in the US, as abortion is legal, and it is therefore not murder.
q.e.d.
BTW, everytime you have sex with birth control, that's another potential human being you are preventing from having a life.
I don't use birth control