++Religion/kids/atheism.... problem??

Originally posted by King Kandy
What then, do you think he should lie to the kid and tell them he doesn't believe those things? His position should be something like "You can believe whatever you want, but my own belief is that its all nonsense, and if you want to know why i'll explain it". So then he learns both his mother and father's side, and the choice is ultimately his.

He said one of his biggest problems was that Christianity "practically says that every human emotion is a sin". Seems like you are basically reaffirming exactly what his problem was. So seems like you're proving yourself wrong, here.

This, I actually agree with. If my girlfriend was insisting that the kids be raised christian, I think that would be a strong reason not to marry her.

There's jerks inside and outside of churches. Atheists can be just as preachy.

We all like to think life is peachy from our POV. It's not. There's just jerks on either side.

Facts: The Christian God is racist, sexist, and anti-homosexual. Not to mention a "jealous God" (He said it himself). He likes to get teh gays when they get too carried away (Sodom).

It's hard for me to like a God like that. Good thing I don't believe in that God.

Originally posted by dadudemon
There's jerks inside and outside of churches. Atheists can be just as preachy.

We all like to think life is peachy from our POV. It's not. There's just jerks on either side.

Facts: The Christian God is racist, sexist, and anti-homosexual. Not to mention a "jealous God" (He said it himself). He likes to get teh gays when they get too carried away (Sodom).

It's hard for me to like a God like that. Good thing I don't believe in that God.

Originally posted by King Kandy

EDIT: That was probably not the best way of explaining what I meant. What i'm saying, is, the christian position is that atheism is totally wrong, a fraud. And that's the view he'll get when he's preached to. So it baffles me that you think its OK for him to let his kid be subjected to that, which is obviously not a position of "point of view", but you think that it would be wrong for the dad to present his own view with certainty. This seems to me to be saying, the preacher should have more authority than the kids own parents.

Look at the the OP again. He wants to forbid his kids from going to church because he's worried they'll brainwash them into being intolerant of other people and this is laughable and will never happen if you're a decent parent. Letting kids go to church doesnt mean you're "relinquishing your parents authority". Its still up to you to raise your children any way you want. But being told an alternative point of view while knowing its just a belief and having the right to deside is better than having something forced upon you because of some silly fears that they'll grow up to crucify gay people. In the end of the day they will doubt some preacher's words (who they see like 3 times a month) as long as their father tells them its just an opinion. BUT they'll eat up anything their daddy tells them. So forcing your kids to become atheists is just wrong. Its a matter of having a free choice.

And going to church is more of a cultural thing this days. For most people its just a healthy family activity anyway, like bawling or camping.

Originally posted by SamZED
Well, I didnt mean it that way.

Look at the the OP again. He wants to forbid his kids from going to church because he's worried they'll brainwash them into being intolerant of other people and this is laughable and will never happen if you're a decent parent. Letting kids go to church doesnt mean you're "relinquishing your parents authority". Its still up to you to raise your children any way you want. But being told an alternative point of view while knowing its just a belief and having the right to deside is better than having something forced upon you because of some silly fears that they'll grow up to crucify gay people. In the end of the day they will doubt some preacher's words (who they see like 3 times a month) as long as their father tells them its just an opinion. BUT they'll eat up anything their daddy tells them. So forcing your kids to become atheists is just wrong. Its a matter of having a free choice.

And going to church is more of a cultural thing this days. For most people its just a healthy family activity anyway, like bawling or camping.

It wouldn't be a healthy family activity. The father wouldn't take part and it would put a dividing line between parents.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't understand, isn't that your own religion? Did you leave christianity?

Sort of but not really. Keep in mind the Mormons think the bible has problems and the original context has sometimes been utterly destroyed from the bible.

Like, I'm not too sure about the "God-commanded" genocide thing. Did God really command genocide against the Jericho-ites?

Does God really hate gays...or is that just human addition to to God hating sin? From my recollection, all of us sin and God loves all of us, but hates sin. Seems contradictory but you can love someone but dislike their actions.

some of you think im trying to "force" my kids to be atheist.... i'm not. Let me ask you this: WHAT would my kid get from going to church? Everything you can think of, manners, some "good" morals, are all things i could teach them. And already stated numerous times, I do not want them hearing masturbation, being gay, lust, are bad things. Because they are not.

King kandy so if you were in my exact situation what would you do?

Originally posted by cool_ghost
some of you think im trying to "force" my kids to be atheist.... i'm not. Let me ask you this: WHAT would my kid get from going to church? Everything you can think of, manners, some "good" morals, are all things i could teach them. And already stated numerous times, I do not want them hearing masturbation, being gay, lust, are bad things. Because they are not.

King kandy so if you were in my exact situation what would you do?

1. Well, first off, if my GF was adamant about the kids growing up christian, this would be a deal breaker for me in terms of marriage.
2. I think children should truly be given the opportunity to make up their own minds... including all the arguments they want to hear from both sides, with complete honesty. And should be made aware that there are many other options as well, which they could be taught about if interested.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I agree with you completely. I can see two courses of action.

1. Well, first off, if my GF was adamant about the kids growing up christian, this would be a deal breaker for me in terms of marriage.
2. I think children should truly be given the opportunity to make up their own minds... including all the arguments they want to hear from both sides, with complete honesty. And should be made aware that there are many other options as well, which they could be taught about if interested.

So i should let my kids do what they want, and say all sides of the situation? Like, lets say if they did want to go to church, let them, but calmly tell them that i don't believe in that, and that its okay to be gay, etc. etc. so they can make their own opinion based off what they heard from me and what they heard at church?

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

Because of your different beliefs I would talk things over now with her if you are sure this is the girl that you want to spend the rest of your life with.
\ if they are not talked about your marriage will not last.

So, the idea to "let the kids decide for themselves" sounds good and all, but how is this going to be accomplished? It's going to be many years before they are old enough to make that decision. It's not like you can keep the concept of god completely hidden from them until they reach a certain age.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, and they probably should figure it out before. If it's an issue neither of them can budge on maybe they shouldn't have children.

My question was to what you think though, what would be right.

That's a tough one. I would say it would depend on the age of the kids. If they don't want to go to church because they don't like getting dressed up, then I would say still take them. If they are old enough to say, "I don't want to go to church because I'm not interested in accepting this religion", then you stop taking them.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Sort of but not really. Keep in mind the Mormons think the bible has problems and the original context has sometimes been utterly destroyed from the bible.

Like, I'm not too sure about the "God-commanded" genocide thing. Did God really command genocide against the Jericho-ites?

Does God really hate gays...or is that just human addition to to God hating sin? From my recollection, all of us sin and God loves all of us, but hates sin. Seems contradictory but you can love someone but dislike their actions.

Christianity doesn't teach you are suppose to hate gay people. You are suppose to "love thy neighbor as thy self." You aren't suppose to hate ANYONE.

Sure, according to Christianity the act is wrong, but that doesn't mean you hate the person. That just means you believe they are doing something wrong.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Sure, according to Christianity the act is wrong, but that doesn't mean you hate the person. That just means you believe they are doing something wrong.

I don't hate you, I just hate who you are.

I am always against trying to manipulate the beliefs of children who are too young to decide for themselves themselves. If your girlfriend wants to take your children to church, I would say let her. But eventually they're going to want to know why their father doesn't go, at which point I would they should be given a logical explanation for why you don't believe. Just emphasize that they should decide for themselves rather than follow either parent.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Sure, according to Christianity the act is wrong, but that doesn't mean you hate the person. That just means you believe they are doing something wrong.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I don't hate you, I just hate who you are.

No. I don't hate you, I hate what you're doing.

My little brother comes over from time to time. When he does, he usually brings over a lot of friends at some point in his visit. Which usually involves a trashed house afterward.

I hate that he does that. But that's just how he is.

So I hate my little brother, do I? I think not. I'm perfectly able to love my little brother yet dislike his actions.

Originally posted by Varunga
Problem is, the act is not wrong. So Christianity's assertion of this is utterly unfounded, and neither the person nor the act should be hated.

You realize that you basically just said 'Christianity's assertion that it is wrong is not founded because it's not wrong."

That's basically saying, "It's not wrong because it's not wrong."

Originally posted by TacDavey
You realize that you basically just said 'Christianity's assertion that it is wrong is not founded because it's not wrong."

That's basically saying, "It's not wrong because it's not wrong."

There is nothing wrong with homosexuals, nor the act of homosexual intercourse. You can find homosexuality in nature. In addition, the Church claims homosexuality to be immoral based upon the Bible, which is a bias book written by men that tells us to worship an immoral God. This is not the best source to follow on issues of morality. Which goes back to my point about the Church having no foundation for its assertion.

It's far more than me merely claiming "it's not wrong because it's not wrong."

Originally posted by Varunga
I said that it is not wrong and that the Church's assertion is unfounded. Both claims that I made are true.

There is nothing wrong with homosexuals, nor the act of homosexual intercourse. You can find homosexuality in nature. In addition, the Church claims homosexuality to be immoral based upon the Bible, which is a bias book written by men that tells us to worship an immoral God. This is not the best source to follow on issues of morality. Which goes back to my point about the Church having no foundation for its assertion.

It's far more than me merely claiming "it's not wrong because it's not wrong."

^^This is exactly why I would prefer my kids not going to church, but i guess I have to give them the chance to let them see for themselves. It would just feel odd if I were to let them go because I think that would not be best for them.

It seems logical to let them make there own decision, but at what age can they make such a decision? And up until that age, should I let my girlfriend take them to church or should I say no?

Remember everyone, the only reason I don't want them going to church is because I think it is best for them, not because i want them like me. I could not care less about the latter. The above post gives reasons of how church is in no way beneficial to my child. And every way that IS positive, could be learned else where.

So before my child is old enough to make the decision of wether or not he/she would like to go to church, can anyone give me a reason to actually take them there?

In all honestly, you have to decide. There is no set age for this type of situation; it all depends on your children and their personalities. Some mature faster than others and can make that sort of decision at a younger age, while others have to wait until they're older.

It's a difficult thing to deal with, and I agree that not going to church would be better for them. But look at it this way: you love your girlfriend and she is Christian, so it doesn't mean you kids will be bad people.

The only real issue I see is if one of them does decide against the religion later in life, it will cause doubt and confusion because it's something that's been taught to them so strongly. It happens to a lot of atheists who stop believing, including myself.

Originally posted by TacDavey
If they don't want to go to church because they don't like getting dressed up, then I would say still take them.

It was the same for me. I didn't care for going to church as a kid because I often found it boring. Still, I found myself believing in God, until I actually started reading the Bible for myself.

And realized the bigotry and hypocrisy of the religion.

And discovered the immorality of God.

And learned of the atrocities committed in the name of religion.

I think you all get the point...