Originally posted by CortSetherGood. Then it's worth mentioning that by the time Sise confronted Shuma, he was at full power. Hence his statement to Strange/Mordo at the bottom of the scan I posted earlier...
At the end of his journey, when he merged with the Big Bang that wouldn't be in question at all
"Follow me now, for the FINAL time--and we shall seek my journey's END!":
Then on the very next pages we see Sise destroy and recreate all of Marvel:
So yeah, Sise was at the height of his power when he confronted Shuma. So by your own accord he would have been able to destroy the slug, without question. 👆
Originally posted by CortSetherSise took away the bulk of Shuma's power with a literal blink of his eyes. The difference in power speaks for itself.
Why is taking most of Shuma's energy away indicative of anything?
Originally posted by Galan007
Good. Then it's worth mentioning that by the time Sise confronted Shuma, he was at full power. Hence his statement to Strange/Mordo at the bottom of the scan I posted earlier..."Follow me now, for the FINAL time--and we shall seek my journey's END!":
So yeah, Sise was at the height of his power when he confronted Shuma. So by your own accord he would have been able to destroy the slug, without question. 👆
Sise took away the bulk of Shuma's power with a literal blink of his eyes. The difference in power speaks for itself.
Sise-Neg was not at full power when he confronted Shuma. The cosmos was still intact. You see after Sise-Neg disposes of Shuma that they travel further where they literally see planets and stars implode and everything reverts into nothingness.
Sise-Neg was only at full power when he reached the pre-Big Bang point in the Void.
Originally posted by CortSetherSise absorbed no further power after he confronted Shuma, therefore he was fully powered at that point in time. Location had absolutely nothing to do with Sise's power. Not debatable.
Sise-Neg was not at full power when he confronted Shuma. The cosmos was still intact. You see after Sise-Neg disposes of Shuma that they travel further where they literally see planets and stars implode and everything reverts into nothingness.Sise-Neg was only at full power when he reached the pre-Big Bang point in the Void.
Originally posted by Galan007
Sise absorbed no further power after he confronted Shuma, therefore he was fully powered at that point in time. Location had absolutely nothing to do with Sise's power. Not debatable.
It isn't debatable because you're wrong.
You're the only person I've ever seen on a forum post that Sise-Neg was at full power when on Earth with Shuma-Gorath.
He very clearly did absorb more power. Or do you honestly think Sise-Neg would have resorted to putting Shuma-Gorath to sleep if he could have just used a freakin' Big Bang and created the universe in his own image right then and there? I mean if he had the power to make the universe in his own image at that point it would have been much simpler to recreate a universe that doesn't include a Shuma-Gorath.
And he very clearly sucks out Shuma's energy to add to his power, so kinda makes the FP argument of yours nonsensical.
Originally posted by CortSetherVery clearly, eh? Okay then, show me some on panel evidence that Sise absorbed energy between confronting Shuma, and recreating the universe.
You're the only person I've ever seen on a forum post that Sise-Neg was at full power when on Earth with Shuma-Gorath.He very clearly did absorb more power.
I'm waiting. 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007
Very clearly, eh? Okay then, show me some on panel evidence that Sise absorbed energy between confronting Shuma, and recreating the universe.I'm waiting. 🙂
When he draws Shuma's power away, where do you think it goes? You think he just leaves Shuma's energy floating around? Because Sise-Neg has shown himself to be very conservative and unselfish when absorbing from others, right? I mean it's not like his very excuse for not wanting to combat Shuma was the fear of a loss of energy, right?
I guess if he has an opportunity to gain more power in his goal for recreating the universe he'd rather just leave it there.
🙄
Originally posted by CortSetherHeh, you might also note that I said: "show me some on panel evidence that Sise absorbed energy between confronting Shuma, and recreating the universe." And between "confronting" Shuma and recreating the universe, Sise absorbed no further power. Thank you. Additionally, it's lulz-worthy to think that absorbing a portion of Shuma's power would make the difference in whether or not Sise was capable of destroying/recreating existence.
When he draws Shuma's power away, where do you think it goes? You think he just leaves Shuma's energy floating around? Because Sise-Neg has shown himself to be very conservative and unselfish when absorbing from others, right? I mean it's not like his very excuse for not wanting to combat Shuma was the fear of a loss of energy, right?I guess if he has an opportunity to gain more power in his goal for recreating the universe he'd rather just leave it there.
🙄
Anyhow, Sise drew away "much" of Shuma's power, placed him in a comatose state, and trapped him in another dimension for millenia... With a blink. The gargantuan difference in power between them is obvious.
Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, you might also note that I said: "show me some on panel evidence that Sise absorbed energy between confronting Shuma, and recreating the universe." And between "confronting" Shuma and recreating the universe, Sise absorbed no further power. Thank you. Additionally, it's lulz-worthy to think that absorbing a portion of Shuma's power would make the difference in whether or not Sise was capable of destroying/recreating existence.Anyhow, Sise drew away "much" of Shuma's power, placed him in a comatose state, and trapped him in another dimension for millenia... With a blink. The gargantuan difference in power between them is obvious.
Now you're just tangling up your argument. In your post with the Marvel Premiere scans you said:
"Good. Then it's worth mentioning that by the time Sise confronted Shuma, he was at full power. Hence his statement to Strange/Mordo at the bottom of the scan I posted earlier...
and
"So yeah, Sise was at the height of his power when he confronted Shuma."
Those statements make it apparent that you meant Sise-Neg already had reached full power before he put Shuma to sleep. Unless what you typed and what you meant are two different things. Although I'm inclined to think you just switched up your argument a bit.
Additionally, it's lulz-worthy to think that absorbing a portion of Shuma's power would make the difference in whether or not Sise was capable of destroying/recreating existence.
Considering Shuma-Gorath is a Great Old One that conquers entire dimensions, it's not at all ridiculous to think that Shuma-Gorath's power was valuable to Sise-Neg.
And anyway, I didn't say that Sise-Neg got to FP from absorbing Shuma's energy either. I said that he got to FP after reaching the Void where he could harness the Big Bang.
What's "lulzworthy" is that you think Sise-Neg traveled even further back to the void just for the fun of it. He clearly wasn't at FP when he first met Shuma, as your originally intended to argue. But even after you tried to cover that up and say that "he reached FP after confronting Shuma" it still wasn't the case.
Why wouldn't Sise-Neg just recreate everything right then? Do you think he wanted to do it when the lights were off and surprise everybody?
😆
Originally posted by CortSetherI worded it that way because it is pure idiocy to assume the (minimal by comparison) power Sise absorbed from Shuma would have made any sort of difference in whether or not he was able to destroy and recreate the universe. Don't be obtuse.
Those statements make it apparent that you meant Sise-Neg already had reached full power before he put Shuma to sleep. Unless what you typed and what you meant are two different things. Although I'm inclined to think you just switched up your argument a bit.
Originally posted by CortSetherWhat are you talking about? Unless I missed something, the void was simply where Sise needed to be in order to destroy/recreate the universe. He didn't gain additional power just by teleporting there srsly
And anyway, I didn't say that Sise-Neg got to FP from absorbing Shuma's energy either. I said that he got to FP after reaching the Void where he could harness the Big Bang.
Originally posted by CortSetherSee above. Your stance is entirely nonsensical. The void did not power Sise up in any way/shape/form. It was simply the point he had to travel to for his plan to come into fruition.
He clearly wasn't at FP when he first met Shuma, as your originally intended to argue. But even after you tried to cover that up and say that "he reached FP after confronting Shuma" it still wasn't the case.
Originally posted by CortSetherYou've now ignored this part of my post a few times now:
😆
Anyhow, Sise drew away "much" of Shuma's power, placed him in a comatose state, and trapped him in another dimension for millenia... With a blink. The gargantuan difference in power between them is obvious.
I wonder why..? mmm
Not trying to get into a lenghthy debate here but if you notice in this scan when Sise decides to exterminate Shuma, Steven comments that Sise is the sun:
Later on after Shuma is banished and they continue their journey, (now in the cosmos) Steven comments "he has changed again ! His face so etheral filling the heavens".
Taking into consideration it's millions of years between the evolution of man and creation of the cosmos, + the fact that Steven said he changed apperance, it's concievable to say that Sise did obtain more power. Off panel perhaps? Just wanted to throw that out there.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Not trying to get into a lenghthy debate here but if you notice in this scan when Sise decides to exterminate Shuma, Steven comments that Sise [B]is the sun:Later on after Shuma is banished and they continue their journey, (now in the cosmos) Steven comments "he has changed again ! His face so etheral filling the heavens".
Taking into consideration it's millions of years between the evolution of man and creation of the cosmos, + the fact that Steven said he changed apperance, it's concievable Sise did obtain more power. Off panel perhaps? Just wanted to throw that out there. [/B]
It's a good thing I checked the thread before posting again b/c otherwise we would have had two posts toward Galan007 addressing what you did.
I had to erase all I typed though 🙁 Anyway, 👆 for you.
@ Sundipped.
You've got to look at the entire comment Strange made in context: "My power dissipates like fog in the sun--and Sise-Neg is the sun." That comment was pretty clearly meant as a point of comparison between Strange's power and Sise's. After all, Sise was obviously not a literal sun.
Also, there were no mentioned gaps in time between Sise trouncing Shuma, and destroying/recreating the universe. In fact, Sise teleported to the void immediately after he beat Shuma.
Anyhow, here's the whole scene from the time Sise arrived on Shuma's planet, to the time he destroyed and recreated existence, for anyone who's curious:
Originally posted by Galan007
Also, there were no mentioned gaps in time between Sise trouncing Shuma, and destroying/recreating the universe. In fact, Sise teleported to the void immediately after he beat Shuma.
Except you know, we see that planets and stars are imploding in upon themselves. The planets and stars didn't form in a day after the Big Bang. 🙄
The universe is estimated to be between 15 and 20 billion years old, and our solar system formed 4.5 billion years ago. So for Sise-Neg to appear out of the void he'd have to make a huge jump in time from the Shuma encounter and that point.
That's the biggest jump in time Sise-Neg made.
Originally posted by CortSetherSo Sise time traveling means he absorbed extra magical power by proxy? Lol, what world are you living in?
Except you know, we see that planets and stars are imploding in upon themselves. The planets and stars didn't form in a day after the Big Bang. 🙄The universe is estimated to be between 15 and 20 billion years old, and our solar system formed 4.5 billion years ago. So for Sise-Neg to appear out of the void he'd have to make a huge jump in time from the Shuma encounter and that point.
That's the biggest jump in time Sise-Neg made.
Originally posted by Galan007
So Sise time traveling means he absorbed extra magical power by proxy? Lol, what world are you living in?
Nice deflecting.
Anyway, it's practically shoved right in your face that Sise-Neg gained another increase in power just by the fact that his image changed drastically, as it did the first time he gained a large increase in power.
You really think Sise-Neg traveled back billions of years from his encounter with Shuma without absorbing a single thing? Good lord.
And it's not like Sise-Neg was at that point able to unleash a Big Bang whereas he couldn't previously.
O wait...
Deflecting? That's horribly ironic coming from you.
Anyhow, Sise teleporting away and beginning to destroy the universe immediately after he owned Shuma, coupled with the fact that nothing was ever mentioned (or even alluded to) that pertained to him absorbing any additional energy, is all the evidence I need. Projecting your opinions here is utterly irrelevant. I am going by exactly what was shown and stated on panel *see above*. Nothing more, nothing less
Originally posted by Galan007
Deflecting? That's horribly ironic coming from you.Anyhow, Sise teleporting away and beginning to destroy the universe immediately after he owned Shuma, coupled with the fact that nothing was ever mentioned (or even alluded to) that pertained to him absorbing any additional energy, is all the evidence I need. Projecting your opinions here is utterly irrelevant. I am going by exactly what was shown and stated on panel *see above*. Nothing more, nothing less
It's not ironic at all, I addressed all your points.
Anyway, most people know that the universe is much older than our solar system and so I hardly think Englehart would feel inclined to state in writing that Sise-Neg traveled billions of years into the past again. He did enough by having Frank Brunner illustrate clearly by showing the stars and planets implode.
You need to take an astronomy class or something, because it's hilarious that you think our solar system was spawned immediately after the Big Bang. 😂
Nothing was alluded to Sise-Neg absorbing more? I guess you'd be right if we didn't have the BIG hints of Sise-Neg's appearance changing drastically once again and then being capable of wielding the Big Bang.
Originally posted by Galan007
@ Sundipped.You've got to look at the entire comment Strange made in context: "My power dissipates like fog in the sun--and Sise-Neg is the sun." That comment was pretty clearly meant as a point of comparison between Strange's power and Sise's. After all, Sise was obviously not a literal sun.
Also, there were no mentioned gaps in time between Sise trouncing Shuma, and destroying/recreating the universe. In fact, Sise teleported to the void immediately after he beat Shuma.
Anyhow, here's the whole scene from the time Sise arrived on Shuma's planet, to the time he destroyed and recreated existence, for anyone who's curious:
Chapter 3.
Strange: He's changed again.
Sise-Neg: I cannot attempt to destroy it since it takes time and it would leach some of my energy away...But I can draw away much of it's energy before it realizes I'm here.
If he is all power as he is in chapter 4 where he creates the big bang and could easily rage stomp SG, then why bother sapping away SG's energy to put him to sleep?
Chapter 4
Strange: Space and time melts into power...power in the name of Sise-Neg.
Mordo: He's changed again...his face so etheral...filling the heavens.
I agree that being shown as the sun doesn't actually mean he became a sun (limited at that level) or when he filled the heavens. However, the depiction is meant to show the different stages of Sise-Neg's power as he journeyed back in time and absorbed everything. At the final chapter he want back beyond the age of the apemen and absorbed even more hence why Mordo notes that he changed yet again. These changes are the artist's depiction of Sise-Neg increase in power, not just Sise-Neg changing for sh!t and giggles.
