Originally posted by quanchi112
How many Celestials here ? Is it just the fourth host or what ?
According to this panel, there are at least 19 Celestials with Big G. It should be noted that those are only the ones we can view from that vantage point (i.e., the Celestials on his left). Given that in other views, Galactus is in the center of the Celestials, there are likely more on his right that we cannot see.
Edit: I get your question now. Still useful information.
Originally posted by CogitoI used to have this comic. Difficult times. Yeah, this threat was uber to warrant this kind of attention and showed no signs of being defeated until Thanos undid the entire universe through his actions.
According to this panel, there are at least 19 Celestials with Big G. It should be noted that those are only the ones we can view from that vantage point (i.e., the Celestials on his left). Given that in other views, Galactus is in the center of the Celestials, there are likely more on his right that we cannot see.Edit: I get your question now. Still useful information.
Originally posted by Cogito
If anyone else wants to chime in with scans backing up these claims, feel free.From what I'm looking at, there's nothing shown or mentioned about the cosmics between here and here.
Which is the same situation as the SCW Anti-Monitor example I posted a little while ago.
Without knowing I think he is refering to this scan (the abstracts are retreating) http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ThanImp_3_019.jpg
and Galactus holding it back alone
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/thanos_06_007-008.jpg
Originally posted by Utrigita
Without knowing I think he is refering to this scan (the abstracts are retreating) http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ThanImp_3_019.jpg
Originally posted by Galan007So basically you have no problem seeing a normal Sinestro no-selling and curbstomping the Weaponer, who took down GL Ganthet, Kyle, Alpha Lantern Boodikka, Hannu and John.
Yeah, that analogy would only be applicable to my stance if the aforementioned Lanterns + Sinestro had barely been able to contend with the Weaponer originally. Then a weaker-than-normal Sinestro pops up later in the story, and beats the Weaponer unaided... Which isn't how things happened at all.So you can either keep listing bad analogies, or accept how ridiculous it is to assume Galactus was holding back the GE by himself.
Let's not be sticklers for form. You're flabbergasted that Galactus could hold the line against an entity that was seemingly wrecking Abstracts who were, by all appearances and feats, peers to Galactus. How could Galactus do what several Galactus-level entities couldn't? Kyle, GL Ganthet, John are peers to Sinestro. The others combined are at least peers to Sinestro. How could Sinestro no-sell and curbstomp someone who was definitively wrecking GLs who were, by all appearances and feats, peers to Sinestro? How could Sinestro do what several Sinestro-level entities couldn't?
Originally posted by Galan007Superman said the gloves were off before even Maxima joined the battle. Which isn't just big talk since he was so exhausted he was getting knocked unconscious several times and hurting himself simply by punching Doomsday.
-Supes was holding back against Doomsday, until they fought in Metropolis (as he stated.)
I still see no distinction here that somehow makes the entire Domsday fight different from the Cancerverse War. Granting your assertion that Superman was holding back until they were in Metropolis, then maybe Galactus was holding back the entire time until the very end also.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Why are you still trying to get me to accept your poor analogy? Just so you know: it still doesn't/didn't apply to my stance... Even after your word-smithing. 😉
So basically you have no problem seeing a normal Sinestro no-selling and curbstomping the Weaponer, who took down GL Ganthet, Kyle, Alpha Lantern Boodikka, Hannu and John.Let's not be sticklers for form. You're flabbergasted that Galactus could hold the line against an entity that was seemingly wrecking Abstracts who were, by all appearances and feats, peers to Galactus. How could Galactus do what several Galactus-level entities couldn't? Kyle, GL Ganthet, John are peers to Sinestro. The others combined are at least peers to Sinestro. How could Sinestro no-sell and curbstomp someone who was definitively wrecking GLs who were, by all appearances and feats, peers to Sinestro? How could Sinestro do what several Sinestro-level entities couldn't?
Originally posted by Galan007
You've misunderstood my entire stance if you think this what I was arguing.Never once did I say that it appeared as though Galactus "was about to triumph" over the GE. Rather, I said that based on the fact that he + numerous other cosmics had barely been able to hold back the GE beforehand, there's no conceivable way he alone should have been able to--even for a moment. If he was capable of holding back the GE all by himself (and in a weaker state than he started at, btw) then why had he, along with multiple cosmics, previously been struggling to do so..?
Again, you simply will not convince me Galactus was soloing the GE for any length of time. Sorry, but I'm not budging on this one.
As I said, even if 9 out of the 10 drop out, the 1 holding the car is still holding it, no matter how momentary. Also, it's not out of the question that the combatants were shifting tactics. The Galactus Engine basically 1-shotted Aegis in the opening moments of the engagement. From that point on, we are neither shown nor told about how the battle progresses until Medusa's statement about the Cosmics being in retreat. The subsequent scan depicting the battle confirms that Galactus, Arishem, and 3 no-name Celestials remain.
NOW, keeping Aegis in mind, we can make the logical and sound assumption that those remaining Cosmics enacted some kind of countermeasures/tactics to avoid getting 1-shotted in like fashion; in other words, the Cosmics (who had not fled or who weren't killed) were trying to prolong the engagement. Results? It relatively worked, because little by little, forces fled or were eliminated until 5 remained, as opposed to being utterly destroyed quickly, as happened to Aegis.
About those 5 opposing the Engine. Galactus, Arishem, and 3 no-name Celestials. They were the final 5 out of the initial 20+ that were confronting the Engine, and you cannot tell me that the marginal decrease in power from 20+ to just 5 is smaller than 5 to only 1. In other words, if 5 were still able to confront the Engine--regardless of them being in a running/retreating battle or otherwise--where previously 20+ were attempting the same feat, then it's absolutely possible for 1 to confront the Engine momentarily. 25% of the initial fighting force was shown, on panel, confronting the Engine and at least delaying its progress. By the time we get to the last scan with Galactus, 5% of the initial fighting force remains. The point I am making is that despite removing 75% of the combatants, the Engine still didn't have free-reign to advance at will. 5 were still doing what 20+ had originally began: delaying the Engine. Indeed Surfer implicitly confirmed that the Engine wouldn't have free reign to advance-despite that very outcome looking increasingly likely-until Galactus himself was ultimately destroyed ("if my master cannot defeat the Galactus Engine," etc.) So your argument actually implies 2 disagreements:
that Galactus could never stall the Engine for the briefest of moments--since even at their full strength, the Cosmics were struggling greatly;
and
that the group of 5 could never stall the Engine for the briefest of moments--since even at their full strength, the Cosmics were struggling greatly. Yet this is exactly what was depicted on panel.
In other words your whole position rests on the argument of "if 12 men struggle greatly to turn over the car, then how can 1?"
Well. Remove 75%. Out of the 12, 3 are still holding up the car, if even for the briefest of moments. The remaining 25% are dedicating proportionately more energy to holding the car up than when the full 12 were doing it at the onset. But now because you argue that Galactus couldn't possibly do it alone no matter how momentary since 20+ were struggling, you'd also have to argue that 5 couldn't possibly delay it no matter how momentary. Yet that is exactly what is shown. In short, the car is still held by 3 guys, where 12 initially began. The drop from 12 to 3 is much more taxing than the drop from 3 to 1. Yet the 3 still held.
And honestly, I'm not putting these points forward in an attempt to "convince" you. The comic speaks for itself and I am simply reiterating/relaying/re-packaging what was both shown in the comic and what the writers themselves stated. By all means disagree, my point is that you know that--while you are entitled to your own opinion--you are incorrect and your argument is contradicted by clear on-panel statements.
Maybe Big G is just that powerful, and the only reason he wasn't digging into his reserves is because he knew he'd only have to face even bigger, more powerful cosmics?
So, hold the line with GE, and block off the bigger threat, basically, and hope the lesser beings can do what they're so good at and save the multiverse, again.
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
As I said, even if 9 out of the 10 drop out, the 1 holding the car is still holding it, no matter how momentary. Also, it's not out of the question that the combatants were shifting tactics. The Galactus Engine basically 1-shotted Aegis in the opening moments of the engagement. From that point on, we are neither shown nor told about how the battle progresses until Medusa's statement about the Cosmics being in retreat. The subsequent scan depicting the battle confirms that Galactus, Arishem, and 3 no-name Celestials remain.NOW, keeping Aegis in mind, we can make the logical and sound assumption that those remaining Cosmics enacted some kind of countermeasures/tactics to avoid getting 1-shotted in like fashion; in other words, the Cosmics (who had not fled or who weren't killed) were trying to prolong the engagement. Results? It relatively worked, because little by little, forces fled or were eliminated until 5 remained, as opposed to being utterly destroyed quickly, as happened to Aegis.
About those 5 opposing the Engine. Galactus, Arishem, and 3 no-name Celestials. They were the final 5 out of the initial 20+ that were confronting the Engine, and you cannot tell me that the marginal decrease in power from 20+ to just 5 is smaller than 5 to only 1. In other words, if 5 were still able to confront the Engine--regardless of them being in a running/retreating battle or otherwise--where previously 20+ were attempting the same feat, then it's absolutely possible for 1 to confront the Engine momentarily. 25% of the initial fighting force was shown, on panel, confronting the Engine and at least delaying its progress. By the time we get to the last scan with Galactus, 5% of the initial fighting force remains. The point I am making is that despite removing 75% of the combatants, the Engine still didn't have free-reign to advance at will. 5 were still doing what 20+ had originally began: delaying the Engine. Indeed Surfer implicitly confirmed that the Engine wouldn't have free reign to advance-despite that very outcome looking increasingly likely-until Galactus himself was ultimately destroyed ("if my master cannot defeat the Galactus Engine," etc.) So your argument actually implies 2 disagreements:
that Galactus could never stall the Engine for the briefest of moments--since even at their full strength, the Cosmics were struggling greatly;
and
that the group of 5 could never stall the Engine for the briefest of moments--since even at their full strength, the Cosmics were struggling greatly. Yet this is exactly what was depicted on panel.
In other words your whole position rests on the argument of "if 12 men struggle greatly to turn over the car, then how can 1?"
Well. Remove 75%. Out of the 12, 3 are still holding up the car, if even for the briefest of moments. The remaining 25% are dedicating proportionately more energy to holding the car up than when the full 12 were doing it at the onset. But now because you argue that Galactus couldn't possibly do it alone no matter how momentary since 20+ were struggling, you'd also have to argue that 5 couldn't possibly delay it no matter how momentary. Yet that is exactly what is shown. In short, the car is still held by 3 guys, where 12 initially began. The drop from 12 to 3 is much more taxing than the drop from 3 to 1. Yet the 3 still held.
And honestly, I'm not putting these points forward in an attempt to "convince" you. The comic speaks for itself and I am simply reiterating/relaying/re-packaging what was both shown in the comic and what the writers themselves stated. By all means disagree, my point is that you know that--while you are entitled to your own opinion--you are incorrect and your argument is contradicted by clear on-panel statements.
originally posted by Galan007
^ Yeah, your 'number crunching' isn't cutting it for me.
😂
Not choosing sides but I must admit, it did sound good tho.
Originally posted by Galan007As far as I know, people aren't trying to act like Galactus > Aegis, Tenebrous and a dozen Celestials by using his desperate solo last stand against the Galactus Engine. Impressive showing, whatever. So I don't even see the controversy or the need to act like it's PIS or that the Celestials must have been just off-panel, etc. It just seems like a false absolute to me.
Why are you still trying to get me to accept your poor analogy? Just so you know: it still doesn't/didn't apply to my stance... Even after your word-smithing. 😉
I'm just saying, this kinda stuff really does happen all the time. People don't try to act like Sinestro > GL Ganthet, Kyle, John, AL Boodikka and Hannu by using his effortless solo curbstomping against the Weaponer so there's no controversy. Impressive showing, whatever. People don't try to act like Superman > half the Justice League, Maxima and Supergirl by using his desperate solo sacrifice against DOS Doomsday. Impressive showing whatever. People don't try to act like Hal > GL Ganthet, Sinestro and the Corps using his desperate solo murder against Krona w/Entities. Impressive showing, whatever. People don't try to act like Doc Sampson > West/East Coast Avengers using his desperate solo hours-long stand against Mindless Hulk. Impressive showing, whatever. And people definitely don't try to act like Sodam Yat > DC Earth using his desperate solo stand against Prime. Apparently sh1tty showing Impressive showing, whatever.
While I sharply disagree that my analogies are poor or inapplicable to your stance, I'm not really invested in getting you to accept them. I'm just saying, this kinda stuff really does happen all the time. Apparently, you don't think so. Again, whatever.
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Yeah, your 'number crunching' isn't cutting it for me.
Yeah, your not believing in basic math is not my concern. You already established you don't want to believe what was shown on panel. That's fine. But this was never about "cutting it for you" or "convincing you" as if you have some rock solid, infallible foundation to build your case. You don't really articulate exactly what leads you to believe it's not possible for Galactus to do that other than "well his group couldn't do it even at full strength."
Ok. I already proved that that argument isn't sound because 5 were explicitly shown to be achieving the very same thing that 20+ were struggling to do--i.e., delay progress of/oppose the Engine (albeit still losing). Add Surfer's statements, on panel art, writers' intent. All you have to say is that you don't want to believe what the story is telling. That's fine. Until then all you're doing is simply "I prefer my own assumptions over what the comic is showing, and won't explain why other than I just refuse to believe what happened."
20+ fought the Engine initially. Then 5. Then 1. In absolutely no sense is that "my" number crunching. It's canon. If that doesn't "cut it" for you, then you're saying you selectively pick and choose what to accept when it's convenient for you, or when it agrees with your own sense of logic, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Originally posted by Cogito
Regardless of how much math you want to do, it has yet to be proven or even likely implied that the rest of the Celestials died or ran away 😬
It was told they were running away and they weren't on panel when the scene was shown. I guess your definition of proof is strange.
Originally posted by Bentley
It was told they were running away
And yet several were shown still there after that was said.
Originally posted by Bentley
and they weren't on panel when the scene was shown.
There are literally thousands of possible examples of a specific character (or characters) being singled out on a panel when they are known to be part of a group. I showed one such example a couple pages back.
You know, there is a difference between "the Abstracts are running away" and "The Abstracts left".
You both should just admit there is a possibility of the interpretation that Power Cosmic is giving, I'm not saying that it must be the only conclusion reached, but is not something as random as say, Thanos beating Odin after getting up in their first battle.
