Dante (DMC) vs. Carnifex (40k)

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Carnifex's best strength feat is the ability to topple over massive Wraithbone spires by pushing, basically knocking over a solid skyscaper constructed out of a material more durable than ceramite, which is itself much more durable than, well, really just about any metal IRL, better than any we can efficiently use.

Dante is strong, but the Carnifex is much, much stronger.

And remember, the Carnifex can attempt to get into melee while also firing its Venom Cannon.

Telion probably wasn't using a blade, only an idiot or a Greater Daemon tries to melee a Carnifex. He was probably using his modified heavy bolter.

I think Dante can probably cut the Carnifex, personally, but not enough to really do much damage per hit.

Yea im sure dante, while not doing critical damage, would be able to atleast cut him, with the strength feats he has.

And knowing this, I doubt dante would be hit by carnifex.... he can easily move fast enough to get close up, cut it, move out of the way, and repeat. That would be no problem for Dante. Also, any damage he does take can be regen in devil trigger. And since you made the thread, what weapons/abilities can dante use? Just the ones from DMC4?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Old One Eye got close enough to rip his squad apart, me thinks it's hard to outrun a charging carnifex. /Shrug.

He'd need one hell of a good feat to be able to actually impale a carnifex. The entire crux of this thread seems to be "can Dante actually hurt it?"

The Carnifex comes from a universe of stronger enemies with monomolecular melee weapons and hilariously overpowered ranged weapons and functions as a heavy assault tank. Dante using some of his higher end DT stuff might be able to wound the fex, but actually putting it down seems out of the question to me, to be honest. Getting into melee range only puts Dante at risk of being caught by a flailing limb of the pissed off carnifex and being neatly bisected.

It's really a match of endurance. He either gets tired before he puts it down and gets crushed, or he wittles it down little by little death of a thousand cuts style.

1. I strongly doubt the carnifex would ever touch him. Dantes strength is debatable, but his speed is not. He is too swift, to quick, too fast, even if he got close in I really, really doubt carnfiex can hit him with a "flailing limb". And dante could just aim for vital spots, I really doubt it would take a thousand cuts to the neck to down the carnifex. maybe on the arm or chest, but not the neck. What about just aiming for the eyes and waiting for it to turn blind? or maybe Cut repeatedly the achilles tendon... Until it cant walk.

2. Your right, its going to come down to endurance. But I still cant see carnifex hitting dante, unless dante is so gassed out that he cant move.

1. I strongly doubt the carnifex would ever touch him. Dantes strength is debatable, but his speed is not. He is too swift, to quick, too fast, even if he got close in I really, really doubt carnfiex can hit him with a "flailing limb". And dante could just aim for vital spots, I really doubt it would take a thousand cuts to the neck to down the carnifex.

Here's the thing though; Dante even wounding the neck is debatable, and he's not the only one who heals rapidly. He's also possessed of finite vigor, eventually he's just not going to be fit enough to avoid being crushed.

Let's not forget either that the Carnifex has a venom cannon. Shots from a venom cannon shoot crystalised poison with enough force to cave in the sides of warhammer tanks. To put this in perspective, a laser weapon that can punch through two meters or concrete can only leave tidy black marks on ceramite, let alone the adamantium plates of some of the heavier vehicles. The carnifex itself is also extremely durable, that same adamantium being laced into its' tusks and carapace, it can survive on a planet that is having it's surface burnt away. (Albeit with injury) It laughs at small arms fire and melee attacks from weapons with an edge so sharp it's only a molecule wide. The weapons used to take down carnifexen typically have disruption fields or other power sources.

The thing is, yes, Dante will be hard to tag, but he's got to spend a long time taking big risks to down the carnifex. All it takes is for him to get caught between it's arms once. One of those thousand times he goes in to try and tap it on the neck, if those arms close behind him before he lands back on the ground to run away, he's utterly knackered.

I really wish I still had my codices to bring more feats. 😬 We know atleast that Carnifex require an extremely substantial amount of punishment to put down. I'm simply not sure Dante can put it out before he gets caught. That's a matter of time.

And his regen is honestly moot here, if the Carnifex does tag him once, no amount of regen will save him from what comes next. The slightest touch of it's claws could easily tear a limb from him. That'd hold him still long enough for a second hit. The second will be messier.

Also, depending on the carnifex, simply standing near it could kill him. Many spew toxic miasma from the spore chimneys on their backs, or are covered in spines that can explode outward on command (an easy way to tag Dante as it's omnidirectional) or both. I doubt Nemebro is letting the carnifex have these, though. They'd be nice.

Worse still, Dante is cocky. All it takes is him trying to lock swords or deflect a projectile once and he's spread across three provinces and it's no one's fault but his own.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Well, let me say it like this: The two most well known weapons of the Imperium are Lasguns and Bolters. The Lasgun is a laser weapon that is capable of blasting through multiple layers of concrete. It's also pretty famous for being one of the weakest weapons in 40K, and would basically bounce off of a Carnifex. The Bolter is a semiautomatic/automatic armor piercing rocket launcher. It's designed to pierce the target and then explode. Carnifex's, again, tend to laugh at these.

So, in short, Carnifex's are all but immune to lasers and missiles, or at least those that are man-portable.

Wrong, read warriors of ultramar. A carnifex gets its head blown off by a Guardsmen with a missle launcher. Further, earlier I belive its eyes were melted by a las rifle.

onto the thread though, I dont think Dante has the power capable of actually destroying the Carnifex due to the fact it is very durable and powerful. If it gets a single hit on Dante he dies, of course its slow nature may mean this is difficult to do. Dantes only got speed on his side here, you may be able to reach to one of Dantes large weapons from pandora doing damage but their hard to gauge and mostly featless.

:I Such a cute lil fella...

Right, cousin site and wiki are near useless for this thing and the 40K lore (LORRRREE!!!!!over) is way to large to find things.. S'ho...

-Is this Scout guy strong or something and is there any way we can know what he used?

-How strong is this bolter thing?

-Do we actually have a durability feat for these things or would it just be bolter level?

-How big is the spire? Already sure that its stronger then Dante but wanna see if the difference is more GuyVsBoxer or GuyVsAsteroid..

-How different is the toughness of its flesh to its armour plates, and which of the two are the things above hitting? Somewhat guessing that its flesh isnt far from whatever that Marine fired as it may have been a wound but it was still its flesh.

If the things strength is still at a level where Dante's Royalguard can still work it'll greatly help with that endurance situation as it can be used to heal himself. And if getting through the Carnifex hide is an issue then a mix of DT, Gauntlets and Yamato may help close the gap and get some more damage off.
Was said that some cuts off, with his speed any strength upgrades theres gonna be some good damage appearing. Add to the fact that itll take more than luck and probability for Carni to tag Dante due to both its speed, brains and wild behavior.

All of this skepticism is thrown out the window if....

A carnifex gets its head blown off by a Guardsmen with a missle launcher. Further, earlier I belive its eyes were melted by a las rifle.

Yes, but I dont have the page number on hand right now. Captain uriel ventris has his life saved by the Guardsmen.

The Lasgun has the penetrating power and wounding power of a modern day handgun bullet, technically less since it tends to cauterize wounds and prevent people from bleeding out.

Don't let anyone or any descriptions tell you otherwise. Literally, all proof points to the contrary of it having some amazing stopping power.

Originally posted by BloodRain -Is this Scout guy strong or something and is there any way we can know what he used?

I decided to dig up the actual weapon used to put out Old One Eye's eye.

It was a Plasma Gun, a weapon that fires superheated plasma hotter than the sun, that can burn through Power Armour as though it were paper. OOE survived.

-How strong is this bolter thing?

It can punch through steel easily, and basically is a fully automatic RPG that fires a hypersonic missile that is set to explode after penetration (Or on impact if it can't penetrate).

-Do we actually have a durability feat for these things or would it just be bolter level?

One has survived Exterminatus. Which translates to in this case having all the oxygen on a planet ignited, glassing the planet and cooking it for about a month. Granted, it was badly injured.

-How big is the spire? Already sure that its stronger then Dante but wanna see if the difference is more GuyVsBoxer or GuyVsAsteroid..

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:1craftlugganath.jpg

Those are wraithbone spires. Admittedly it is hard for me to get a sense of scale, because I'm not sure what kind of ship that is.

-How different is the toughness of its flesh to its armour plates, and which of the two are the things above hitting? Somewhat guessing that its flesh isnt far from whatever that Marine fired as it may have been a wound but it was still its flesh.

The eye is the only weak point on a Carnifex. Other than that, the entire thing is heavily armoured, it is designed to me a living battering ram by the Tyranid Hive Mind.

All of this skepticism is thrown out the window if....

....^this is true 😕

I think I should probably shed some light onto this.

Krak Missiles are able to destroy massive Dark Eldar spires.

Aka these:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RfD80Ww88ew/TUwcrLVtUiI/AAAAAAAABGk/t1xwHkAg-zc/s1600/350px-Commorragh.jpg

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The Lasgun has the penetrating power and wounding power of a modern day handgun bullet, technically less since it tends to cauterize wounds and prevent people from bleeding out.

Don't let anyone or any descriptions tell you otherwise. Literally, all proof points to the contrary of it having some amazing stopping power.

That there are multiple instances of people surviving after being shot in the throat, in the stomach, the chest, and everywhere else that doesn't cause instant death like the head. The fact that people have used things like fallen trees, sandbags, and hills as effective cover.

If you want sources, read Gaunt's Ghosts 1-14, and Ciaphas Cain 1-6. Literally, every single written media that has ever involved lasgun fire fights, depicts the lasgun's effectiveness as pretty similar to that of modern day guns.

Almost everything nemebro posts to scale something as impressive often comes after "massive" or "huge", when smaller surface areas increase pressure, not large ones therefore not everything huge is neceserily durable. Especially now were talking about alien materials that are harder to gauge so I hope they have some gaugable feats.

That said, ive read enough to know from my knowledge of DMC (DMC1-4 PS games) that hes going to have trouble doing damage and taking it, its only his speed that may aid him here. Also Krak missles are apprently used for destroying tanks, like Lemen russ battletanks although they seem to die to several forces in the Ultramines omnibus.

Oh and the page for Carnifex vs missle launcher wielding IG is page 420, the guardsman goes by the name of pavel.

Also what states that plasma weapons are hotter than the sun? also this may be misleading, since a lightning bolt is hotter than the surface of the sun, but its fraction of a second of life means it does little. Not that this is important since none here have them.

Also Blaxican is right, the basic lasgun, pistol etc are of near effectiveness on normal men as bullets. Dont forget, Guardsmen are not heavily armoured.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
That there are multiple instances of people surviving after being shot in the throat, in the stomach, the chest, and everywhere else that doesn't cause instant death like the head. The fact that people have used things like fallen trees, sandbags, and hills as effective cover.

If you want sources, read Gaunt's Ghosts 1-14, and Ciaphas Cain 1-6. Literally, every single written media that has ever involved lasgun fire fights, depicts the lasgun's effectiveness as pretty similar to that of modern day guns.

Cover isn't just for blocking enemy fire, it's also for obscuring vision.

Also, context would be nice. Not going to drop everything I'm doing to read 20 books. Because I'm busy reading three. estahuh

Eisenhorn you say? I have the book of that name, with the 3 stories, Xeno,s herecticus etc. What page does he get shot?

Also, this sort of devalues power armour a little if it can be pierced by lasguns which can only knock heads off.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Almost everything nemebro posts to scale something as impressive often comes after "massive" or "huge", when smaller surface areas increase pressure, not large ones therefore not everything huge is neceserily durable. Especially now were talking about alien materials that are harder to gauge so I hope they have some gaugable feats.

Wraithbone is much more durable than even ceramite. Wraithguards and Wraithlords are made of it, Wraithguards can soak up a great deal of "small arms fire" and be just peachy, whereas a Wraithlord is completely immune to it.

That said, ive read enough to know from my knowledge of DMC (DMC1-4 PS games) that hes going to have trouble doing damage and taking it, its only his speed that may aid him here. Also Krak missles are apprently used for destroying tanks, like Lemen russ battletanks although they seem to die to several forces in the Ultramines omnibus.

The Leman Russ is an average tank. Though it's still very durable, obviously. Krak Missiles can kill Space Marines. Who can weather orbital bombardment from Barrage Bombs.

Oh and the page for Carnifex vs missle launcher wielding IG is page 420, the guardsman goes by the name of pavel.

I actually downloaded the Ultramarines Omnibus not long ago, will read eventually.

Also what states that plasma weapons are hotter than the sun? also this may be misleading, since a lightning bolt is hotter than the surface of the sun, but its fraction of a second of life means it does little. Not that this is important since none here have them.

Sorry, misremember, it's compared to simply a "tiny sun." And actually, a plasma bolt isn't just some ball of superheated awesome, it actually converts its target into superheated plasma, breaking you down and melting you.

Also Blaxican is right, the basic lasgun, pistol etc are of near effectiveness on normal men as bullets. Dont forget, Guardsmen are not heavily armoured.

Flak armour is actually pretty decent by modern standards.

But when your enemies wield fully automatic RPGs, plasma guns, hypersonic monomolecular shuriken, and sub-atomic vacuum cleaners as their basic weaponry, it only looks bad.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Eisenhorn you say? I have the book of that name, with the 3 stories, Xeno,s herecticus etc. What page does he get shot?

Also, this sort of devalues power armour a little if it can be pierced by lasguns which can only knock heads off.

And I have it online, can't give you a page number anyway lol.

Considering Power Armour can withstand orbital bombardments and Warpfire bombs that destroy the largest Librarium outside of Sol... Not really.

There are different types of lasguns. The ordinary ones, Hotshot lasguns, Hellfire(or however the hell they're called) lasguns, laspistols, etc. Some of them are obviously more powerful than others.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's actually from a short story between Xenos and Malleus, which is in the Omnibus.

And I have it online, can't give you a page number anyway lol.

Considering Power Armour can withstand orbital bombardments and Warpfire bombs that destroy the largest Librarium outside of Sol... Not really.

Again, orbital bombardment is over a large area. Also unless you tell me a magma bomb fired from a Space marine cruiser hit directly on the armour and he got up, then yes. Theres a big difference between being directly hit by a bomb from a cruiser and being at ground zero and simply being in the bombardment where you may simply be in the blast radius.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Again, orbital bombardment is over a large area. Also unless you tell me a magma bomb fired from a Space marine cruiser hit directly on the armour and he got up, then yes. Theres a big difference between being directly hit by a bomb from a cruiser and being at ground zero and simply being in the bombardment where you may simply be in the blast radius.

And Ahriman's Warpfire Bomb hit the Marines directly. The Guardsmen with the Marines were completely incinerated instantly. Power Armour held.

Stop talking about shit like "surface area" as though it makes a real difference.

It was a Plasma Gun, a weapon that fires superheated plasma hotter than the sun

One has survived Exterminatus

Those are wraithbone spires. Admittedly it is hard for me to get a sense of scale, because I'm not sure what kind of ship that is.

The eye is the only weak point on a Carnifex. Other than that, the entire thing is heavily armoured, it is designed to me a living battering ram by the Tyranid Hive Mind.

But if BT's right about that missile launcher, and unless that missile has some massive power on it some of Pandora's shots could match.

So? A lot of things can knock out shields, and starships get ruined in the "warriors of ultramar" vs the Tyranids shields or no.

So this is heat, not pressure necesserily when you say incinerated and thats not saying much, Guardsman hardly wear more than modern soldiers of today.

it does make a difference, if a bomb spreads its blast power over an area of a few miles, the force is disapated as it goes out. Hence why bombs have a much higher kill rate in the center than as you go further out. Even you can understand how a magma bomb from the Vae Victus hitting the planet created a vast crator on a bunker, using several shots it dug deep but again, still a crator. Just like most weapons, a crator is formed because the deeper "higher pressure" forces in the center push the ground/materials down hence giving a dish shape because the lower forces on the outer rims do not do the same.

Now if these marines were simply in the middle of an explosion, their not ncesserily taking all the force its capable of since other surfaces around also share in that force.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Minisun or whatever, Im thinking Ifrit can cover this heat.

Why is this verse so hard to get feats on? >: Ballpark figure will be kewl.

lol on ifrit covering "mini sun" temperatures.

Because its a table top game, therefore most of its feats come from books which are not always easy to gauge feats from or more importantly, display feats from.

Minisun or whatever, Im thinking Ifrit can cover this heat.

a plasma bolt isn't just some ball of superheated awesome, it actually converts its target into superheated plasma, breaking you down and melting you.

..Any more physical durability feats? Being set on fire doesn't tell me much. So far all I know is that they can

Tellion with his modified heavy bolter could not even hurt Old One Eye until he shot it in an already open wound.

Also:

One has survived Exterminatus. Which translates to in this case having all the oxygen on a planet ignited, glassing the planet and cooking it for about a month. Granted, it was badly injured.

Why is this verse so hard to get feats on? >: Ballpark figure will be kewl

IIRC, the ceramite plates on space marine armour are 5mm thick. These plates allow marines ot withstand orbital bombardments and shrug off hypersonic armour piercing explosives, as well as withstand superhumans wielding monomolecular edged chainsaw swords, ect.

Imagine a sky scraper made of something better than that. Also, the picture Nemebro posted is from a craftworld, basically a floating megacity of space elves. Ballpark level is "wut", lol. Hard to legitimately quantify, but easy to look at and go "Yeeep..."

Can you be sure that its only the eyes and not the rest of the flesh? That I can see nothing says where they took these strikes.