Dante (DMC) vs. Carnifex (40k)

ok, ima throw my hat in here. i read early on that you guys dont seem to think a carnifex can stop a daemon prince. well. dante was able to kill demons the size of skyscrapers. beings so powerful they could create their own realities to combat in. thats like beating horus within the eye of the warp itself. so to say he couldnt harm a carnifex is sort of innane.

now dont get me wrong, i love 40k. in fact, the tyranids are outright my favorite army. but im a fan of both series. and the things dante has done in all the games. (dmc4 being set in a timeline after he kicked the ever living crap out of mundus, who was the lord of hell at the time. thats like beating up the strongest champion of chaos) if dante was to fight it without going devil trigger, i would say he couldnt stop a rampaging carnifex with scything talons and venom cannon.

and for everyone adding in the fex's regenarative abilities. it was stated at the beginning all it has is the venom cannon and scything talons. no regenerate. no bonded exoskeliton, no extra anything. pretty much one of the cheapest and weakest fexes you can draft. so.. if a fex has a hard time with a daemon prince... which dante could easily best. then the fight has to go to dante.

i do agree that his guns wouldnt do much damage, if any at all. but devil triggered demonic energy-enhanced sword strikes? yeah, he'd take that fex apart.
and i submit this.. while not as awesome by todays standards of gaming.. was pretty baoss back in the day...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qLx4BRgp3U&feature=related
mundus would, at the very least... be able to crush a daemon prince in combat. therefore, it has to go to dante...

now dante vs alucard, on the other hand.....

Was going to sleep, your post bothered me too much. >=(

i read early on that you guys dont seem to think a carnifex can stop a daemon prince. well. dante was able to kill demons the size of skyscrapers. beings so powerful they could create their own realities to combat in. thats like beating horus within the eye of the warp itself.

and the things dante has done in all the games. (dmc4 being set in a timeline after he kicked the ever living crap out of mundus, who was the lord of hell at the time. thats like beating up the strongest champion of chaos)

if a fex has a hard time with a daemon prince... which dante could easily best. then the fight has to go to dante.

ut devil triggered demonic energy-enhanced sword strikes? yeah, he'd take that fex apart.

mundus would, at the very least... be able to crush a daemon prince in combat.

Daemon princes are some of the most powerful daemons, second only to greater daemons. Most of the traitor primarchs became princes. Even before their transformations the primarchs made Dante pale in comparison. 😬 Physically capable of busting mountains, pushing over (40k scale!) sky scrapers, surviving (40k scale!) ships just kind of landing on them, ect.

All I'm trying to say is; Without feats you cannot simply equate DMC characters to daemon princes and especially not warmaster Horus.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Why? A carnifex has withstood month long planetary bombardments by weapons far more destructive than Dante's strikes.
Feats or gtfo, lol.

Daemon princes are some of the most powerful daemons, second only to greater daemons. Most of the traitor primarchs became princes. Even before their transformations the primarchs made Dante pale in comparison. 😬 Physically capable of busting mountains, pushing over (40k scale!) sky scrapers, surviving (40k scale!) ships just kind of landing on them, ect.

All I'm trying to say is; Without feats you cannot simply equate DMC characters to daemon princes and especially not warmaster Horus.

But not a missle to the head it seems.

All you keep saying is "second only" or "even more powerful than!" as if that means something also I would like quotes, page numbers or even better scans of these things because as Blax said, a lot of it can be nonsense or out of context. Dante has nothing on primarchs and such because I have doubts he can go hand to hand with a space marine Captain or the like but "busting mountains"? Ive read the Ultramarines ominbus and they worship Gulliman but nobody mentioned anything like busting mountains or such.

sigh. its a comparison. dante was the son of the most badass demonic guy in the mythos. period. its like if you took cherubael from 40k at full strength, and said "go have twins, they're gunna be badass" .

and mundus had power enough to rip open holes in time and space, create entire realities and living beings at a whim. throwing down and destroying planetary bodies was nothing for him. nothing at all. he even corrupted and turns dantes own brother. sound similar to turning and corrupting primarchs? thats pretty powerful chaos shit right there. he even had warp-storms and elemental carnage that killed his own subordinates.

once you establish a base of powers thrown at each one, you can accurately assess whats going on. punching down mountains, and destroying entire cities sounds pretty much like that giant stone "god" in dmc4. which dante had zero issues with.

and while a carnifex is immensely badass, lets face it.. its no trygon, or bio-titan. (which, dantes been swallowed by a bio-titan sized leviathon before and killed it from the inside out, too) you guys are really selling dante too short. with his daemonic powers, hes like a powerful demon of the warp facing a carnifex. and im pretty much seeing it go this way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOXq01UJBBM
vital, weak points targeted and taken out. fast, and easy. not to mention, again.. that its a basic fex. pretty much only relying on its own muscle and claws.

whereas dante can chanel his demonic powers and fire shots that rip holes in dimentions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxqCFWQN7Go&feature=related

not to mention his entire fight the savior
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--J_4IBfMw
now isnt that about the size and destructive power of a war titan? which hes kinda taking apart like nothing. and thats not even tapping into his devil trigger abilities. a normal person would stand no chance of facing a fex. but you have to treat dante as you would a 40k equivalent, and you have to treat the fex as a devil may cry equivalent.

dante with his dimention shattering, dragon-throwing, (yeah, he did that in the first game, created a dragon out of demonic energy and fired it at the final boss. broke through magical barriers and did MASSIVE damage) self regenerating, demonicly psuedo-god killing powers would easily be able to stop a fex. and prolly throw out cheesey one liners and flirting with the closest adeptas sororitas while doing it.

EDIT: actually.. a more difficult fight would be dante vs a swarmlord. THAT shit would be hard to call.. though id have to say i would be in favor of the swarmlord..

and also.. the fex's arent all that indestructable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9bWEz4ME-M
im pretty sure those space marine captains totally dig their power swords into its face and eye sockets to bring it down. so it DOES have weak points to be easily exploited.

Mundus has never destroyed a planetary body, he was a slow and fairly weak opponent, yes he made Trish but thats about the only useful thing he did that seems above the norm.

The giant stone "god" could hardly destroy mountains, it had a slowly charged beam that could burn through civilian buildings and Dante was not alone with Saviour, infact he could not barely harm it, Nero was the one who dealt with Sanctus.

Only Beowulf is extremely weak compared to a Carnifex and does not have half the resistance or power.

Your comparing Saviour to a War Titan? pff, Saviour looks like a giant humanoid of marbel, not a vast war machine with high yield weapon systems and on top of that, Dante has to attack power points on its body, so hardly "taking apart".

Exploited by a space marine captain with a power sword, not necesserily Dante with Rebellion which is not only far weaker than a PS but hes also less sturdy than a marine as well, explain to me why he cant pull his own sharp sword from his chest with ease?

planetary bodies meaning meteors and satalites. not entire planets. and that giant stone "god" has the sheer mass and size to destroy mountains. and the slow sharge up beam that destroys buildings, isnt limited to just taking out cavilian buildings. and you know just as well as i do that dante has only ever taken two fights seriously, and was letting nero take the heroes credit. (because neros a crazy useless kid)

as for beowulf, you're forgetting hes a demon. in 40k terms, a demon that, with his energy attacks and punches, would equate to another monstrous creature easily with abilities to ignore armour saves. (at the very least)

and the power points on the savior are valid, but at the same time, war titans have been taken down with swarms of nids no more in size than hormagaunts. so their not invulnerable to scything talons and blades. so whos to say dante cant shadow of the collosus his way up a war titans body and take it apart in a similar manner? they may not have alot of weak points like the savior did, but once that energy core is breached, everything around it dies, as well as the titan. so its not outside the bounds of saying he couldnt handle it. hell, cherubael took out a chaos war titan EASILY, and in seconds. and he was defeated and bound by one psychic human, who didnt even have alpha level psyker powers.

and you're still not taking into account dantes demonic power. his sword, along with his fathers and brothers have powers within them to open and seal dimentional rifts. (which, in 40k terms says they can open and close doorways and portals into the warp) as well as project demonic power outward via energy-based attacks. how is that NOT like a powersword? and as for him not being able to pull his own sword out of himself easily, hmm. maybe it would have to do with the size of the blade? oh, and this looks pretty affortless..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_1kETIVweo
and also ALOT like a powersword.

plus, dante is durable as all hell. hes been stabbed, impaled, blasted and shredded more times than most other creatures. hell, if a space marine took as much hell as he does in any given game, (without his power armour) they would've put him in a dreadnaught.

to reasonably measure the fight, you have to look at it objectively. what can a fex kill? what can kill a fex? what has dante killed. what can kill dante? what weapons and things are in the dmc universe that are similar to the 40k universe and vice versa?

in the 40k universe, dante would be madly hunted by the inquisition as a very deadly threat from the warp. the amount of things he can do is very broken. he has swords which let him shoot thunder out of his hands and create tornados with his body, fire and wind. he can channel demonic powers through them and launch the energy through the air or ground at his enemy. he can create burning meteors of demonic power and hurl it at his enemies, and summon plumes of inferno around him. he has more than one demonic gun that chanels demonic power through it and can bounce and peirce multiple enemies at a time. he has the demonic power to slow down time to a crawl, and an armband that can stop time entirely. he can create a doppleganger of himself to attack his foe for twice the damage. he can move so fast, his body seems to blur and even teleport. and he can push off of demonic platforms in the air the manuever around. not to mention HE CAN FREAKIN FLY. hes kind of OP and more than a bit broken. and you guys arent taking that into account.

hell, im looking at my tyranid codex right now, looking over the fex stats. and the only real thing going for it isnt its "indestructability", but rather its 9 strength value. with a venom cannon means a str 10 hit. which puts it at "IMA ONE SHOT THIS *****!" area. its armour is a 2/3rds protection chance, but theres no real way its going to be able to stop getting hit. being so big and slow (its initiative is at 1, after all), it wouldnt really be able to hit dante. so you're looking at another mundus -type fight. only without all the powers and summons flying around to deal with.

Hes large but destroying a mountain wouldnt be easy for him, it would take him time.

But you cant really compare them ,him being a deamon does not give him the same powers as the 40k Deamons, nor does it equate their powers with him and vice versa.

Cherubael iirc did not try to kill Eisenhorn until near the end of the story though, Cherubael often toyed with him and Eisenhorn created sigils and used some of the Chaos secrets from Pontius glaw to bind Cherubael, it was not really an act purely psychic vs psychic, Cherbael is far more powerful than Dante in that regard, while Dante has to find specific weak points, if you can prove the Titans reactor is easy to destroy/get to then fair enough, otherwise your talking about Dante trying to damage the Titans armour.

The wapr is not the same as "dimentional rift" though. A power sword has a matter disruption field around it, Dantes swords are pretty much like any other sword only incredibly durable and allow him access to certain abilities. Not sure it was fairly slow, also it being electric does not make it comparable to power weapons.

I agree "without power armour" but rarely do Space marines go out without PA do they, Dante can take impalement nad such, but his flesh has never bounced something off it like armour can.

Few weapons are similiar though, take the Carnifex, apprently (Nemebro said it so I dont know if its true) Carnifex can push over skyscrapers of eldar wraithbone, thats far more power and strength than Dante can take and further the Carnifex takes on enemies on its own level like tanks and things in Warhammer 40k.

Ragni and Rudra right? these "tornados" wouldnt do much to a Carnifex though would it. of course were taking all this into account, but him flying, fireing demon guns and such are not going to help him since the Carnifex has faced more powerful guns and more powerful strikes. Nobody is argueing with Dantes speed which I agree is incredible, hence why I say if the Carnifex can hit him it would be lucky.

These numbers of gameplay from a manuel, rule 14 of the forum informs people new to the forum that we are against using gameplay mechanics like numerical values. We usually discuss things from the story like what they have taken in firepower etc in the books or games.

Dante lacks power, not speed. Carnifex has power but lacks speed, imo, time is in the Carnifexes favour if Dante has trouble harming him so "eventually" the carnifex is going to get a hit.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
DMC 4, so no.

I see. But DMC4 Dante technically is a latter version to his incarnates which did posses time-stops. So logicaly, shouldn't Dante still have Bangle of time or Chronoheart?

Logically yes but the thread may specify DMC 4 purely for the fact the thread creator wanted it to be only DMC4 powers and abilities. Otherwise we usually just say "Dante" on a general basis. Paste may alow all previous abilities of course.

ill take your point about eisenhorn not being able to stand mind to mind with cherubael. but that wasnt my point. my point was that a creature that can bring down a war titan effortlessly was still beaten and bound by a mere human. and humans taking off the heads of a fex with missiles isnt outside the bounds of lore. they're NOT invincible creatures. all it takes is one good injection of metal into an eye, and through the brain to bring it down.

and ill agree that an antimatter field would be alot stronger than lightning or possibly hellfire. but when you have a sword that crackles with those things.. or can even do this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYQoNJnWELw&feature=relmfu
..then the effect it has will be the same as a power weapon. namely, killing what it stabs.

and im very iffy on one fex bringing down an entire skyscraper of wraithbone. that sounds more like trygon/mawloc/bio-titan territory. maybe multiple fexes tearing down the base of the structure, or give one fex anough time, and it'll eventually get it done, maybe.

plus.. chainswords to the face also kill fexes..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND_kvO142Aw
its about 4:00 in. generally, faces seem to be everythings weakness. and with dantes speed, im pretty sure he can get alot of sharp metal into an eye socket before the fex can hit him. or, ya know.. he can sit back, dodging venom cannon shots while he pulls out the kalina anne, or pandora and puts missiles into said face. O_o.. i still dont see it as anything too difficult for dante, based on all the other things hes killed in games and lore.

Not really a "mere" human but a powerful psychic with access to the Dark arts to bind said Deamon. Dante could not do the same thing, he does not know the Chaos spells or tricks to bind a deamon and his power is not enough to do what Cherubael did.

Depends on what your stabbing really, lightning and hellifre canont makup for anti-matter, which can make even the strongest adversaries in WH40k vulnerable to its attacks, I dont see how Dantes sword turning into various different weapon types can help him.

Well I dont know, nemebro has yet to provide the quote for this feat.

But a chainsword is a monomolecular blade and a Space marine is arguably stronger in power armour than Dante is, and heavier too. Also, appprently old one eye has had its eye burned out by Plasma and survived.

Not sure Kalina anne or Pandora missles are equel to the Krak missles fired by a missle launcher. Nemebro has claimed those missles are incredibly powerful. Pandora missles are of a low yield, not destroying ice and stone around their blasts, I think all of the Pandora missles combined to finish off the Deamon toads and the Deamon gate but thats it, Krak missles are apprently made for ripping open tanks, 40k tanks at that.

its still a thing where you're comparing dante without him using his devil trigger. a dante at marvell vs capcom standards.. (which is a crazy watered down dante) and everything about dante in dmc4 was him toying around. taking nothing seriously, and not even bothering with his demonic powers. which is because he didnt need to. nero was doing all the heavy lifting while dante was sitting back and smirking, seeing what nero could do.

it seems to be the general view from you guys that all of dantes demonic powers couldnt hold a candle to demonic powers from 40k. even though its all still demonic energy. and dantes powers, in DT form come from the demon worlds very best warrior. 40k technology is greater, naturally. and his sword on its own using dantes normal strength wont do anything unless he hits an eye.

but when you add dantes demon realm powers into the mix.. (which he held himself back ALOT from in dmc4) his speed is faster, strength is greater, hes constantly regenerating, and theres alot of energy going through that blade. and the sparta blade, changing shape. (i was also trying to show you the demonic energy rushing through it) imagine he stabs the sword tip into a fex, and then it changes into spear form, impaling it like crazy. and then to scythe, shredding its organs from within.

carnifexes are still just biological creatures. they dont have supernatural abilities besides being controlled by the hive mind. so they all have the same weakness as anything else alive. namely, all the squishy vital bits like eyes, brain, and organs. so! even regular grenades going off in a fex's eye socket are going to tear the living hell out of it. and possibly kill it. even if each missile only cracks its face chitin open... it still makes the fex about as strong as a boss battle battle in game. meaning many, many, many more rockets into its face, while dodging it can still bring it down.

dantes used to facing really powerful and big things. the fex is used to being the really powerful and big thing. so. heres my last statement on my opinion.

dante without devil trigger stands no chance in hell of doing more than pissing it off. his sword and natural strength would mean nothing to it. his speed would keep him alive long enough to annoy the ever living CRAP out of it, though. which would be amusing, though fruitless.

but dante pulling his demonic powers into the mix? dead fex. boss battle style.

Originally posted by Enfathiel
I see. But DMC4 Dante technically is a latter version to his incarnates which did posses time-stops. So logicaly, shouldn't Dante still have Bangle of time or Chronoheart?

Naw dude. There was a part in the game where Dante has to get through lasers and dante doesn't use any of these abilities which means he lost them.

Originally posted by TheGoldenSpy
Naw dude. There was a part in the game where Dante has to get through lasers and dante doesn't use any of these abilities which means he lost them.

eh.. doesnt mean he lost it.. just that he didnt use it.. he likes to shows off alot. alot alot. weapons he doesnt take with him everywhere, like orbs and gems he doesnt carry with him after jobs. but powers... those stay within his blood.

Originally posted by Matthias Fenris
eh.. doesnt mean he lost it.. just that he didnt use it.. he likes to shows off alot. alot alot. weapons he doesnt take with him everywhere, like orbs and gems he doesnt carry with him after jobs. but powers... those stay within his blood.

Quicksilver wasn't even a physical weapon, it was a power. There is no reason why he couldn't use it other than him not being able to use it anymore.

uhh... you just agreed with what i said. thanks?

Originally posted by Matthias Fenris
uhh... you just agreed with what i said. thanks?

No, I disagreed. Dante doesn't have his time powers in DMC4. FACT. Deal with it.

And I think Time bangle wasn't even a cannon weapon in the story.

Depends on what your stabbing really, lightning and hellifre canont makup for anti-matter, which can make even the strongest adversaries in WH40k vulnerable to its attacks, I dont see how Dantes sword turning into various different weapon types can help him.

I think I missed something here. Where did antimatter come from? Power weapons have a matter disruption field, which is not the same thing.

what do you consiter story? anything in the games is open. as is the anime. as it doesnt contradict anything. meaning all items and weapons in game are there. fact is, dante in game wouldnt use quicksilver, unless it replaced a style of fighting. in dmc 4, hes using 4 out of 6 styles of fighting. he still has it, because he had it previously. he just doesnt use it.

The only stuff I know from DMC is from the games. I don't know if he ever used it in the anime ... and I don't really care.

All I know about the Time bangle was some secret extra item found in a bonus room that Dante never uses in cutscene. What I consider a canon power or ability is something absolutely needed to progress the game or something the player receives from an important NPC or cut scene.

And about quicksilver in DMC4... Dante needs to find a special key to a machine that slows time enough to cross a room of laser barriers.

Why in the world would he need to do that if he still had quicksilver?

If OP had just said Dante, of course he would be considered with quicksilver but in DMC4 he doesn't, so he shouldn't have it here.