Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe. This is a tricky subject and I think needs some Mod-decision on it, especially given that Tabletop games have been recently allowed. Personally I feel that this ruleapplies:14. All characters are, by default, presented in vs. threads as they are in their respective games. This includes physical feats of strength, speed, durability, etc. shown in the games, regardless of the universe. The sole caveat to this is if the original post outlines imposed limitations. I will make this very clear: If a character can do something in a game, they can do it in the vs. thread, unless the original post specifically says no. This does not extend to things that are clearly gameplay mechanics - stuff like QTEs, turn-based systems, health and magic point systems, etc. It does extend to abilities that are clearly seen to be used in the game, and that the character is clearly intended to be able to do - the developers would not give the characters abilities that can be used in gameplay if they didn't intend them to be able to use them.
Fortitude rolls fall into that category imo.
Only here is this thing: Dungeons and Dragons is not a videogame. Not by any stretch of the word. While tabletop games may of been allowed, they are fundamentally different. DnD has no cutscenes, and in the "story" of DnD, a Barbarian can in fact resist a Flesh to Stone spell by virtue of being tough as nails. This isn't just a gameplay mechanic, it is canon that some creatures can do this, within the world of DnD.
😄
I tell you to shut your mouth and you open it wider? Stfu.
You're always cool Nemebro-sama.
Well that's true.
Well correct me if I'm wrong but in DnD terms aren't mages not actually the wielders of power, as in they just manipulate the Weave (magical energy) present in the universe? The Weave is capable of some pretty incredible stuff. I think creating a replica of Old One Eye isn't out of the question for a mage to accomplish, its merely a highly-evolved creature. Just flesh and blood. I mean, wizards can create entire pocket dimensions, this isn't outside of their capabilities.
Depends on which setting we are discussing. In Greyhawk, which is the default 3.5 setting and as such the one I am most familiar with, for example, magic is a finite resource, and is linked to the power of Boccob, greater deity of magic, and arguably the most powerful deity in DnD short of Tharizdun. With every spell created, or magic item created, you bring more magic into existence, while destroying magical items or spells or whatever takes some away, all while Tharizdun is busy sucking the magic from the Multiverse as well. But... Stuff.
I DO NOT SEE HOW THAT ANSWERS MY POINT HONESTLY.
Well unfortunately I live in England and there isn't as much opportunity for nerdy DnD stuff over here.
You just have to look harder. estahuh
Originally posted by NemeBro
Only here is this thing: Dungeons and Dragons is not a videogame. Not by any stretch of the word. While tabletop games may of been allowed, they are fundamentally different. DnD has no cutscenes, and in the "story" of DnD, a Barbarian can in fact resist a Flesh to Stone spell by virtue of being tough as nails. This isn't just a gameplay mechanic, it is canon that some creatures can do this, within the world of DnD.
But Baldur's Gate is a videogame. QED.
Originally posted by NemeBro
I tell you to shut your mouth and you open it wider? Stfu.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Depends on which setting we are discussing. In Greyhawk, which is the default 3.5 setting and as such the one I am most familiar with, for example, magic is a finite resource, and is linked to the power of Boccob, greater deity of magic, and arguably the most powerful deity in DnD short of Tharizdun. With every spell created, or magic item created, you bring more magic into existence, while destroying magical items or spells or whatever takes some away, all while Tharizdun is busy sucking the magic from the Multiverse as well. But... Stuff.I DO NOT SEE HOW THAT ANSWERS MY POINT HONESTLY.
Baldur's Gate is 2nd Edition and takes place in the Forgotten Realms, Faerûn. So Greyhawk does not apply. I think Mystra was the goddess of magic in Baldur's Gate. Theres a few churches you can wonder into. Waukeens, Mystras, Talos etc all the Faerûnian dieties around at the time.
Creating a copy of Old One Eye is not outside of Irenicus' capabilities.
Originally posted by NemeBro
You just have to look harder. estahuh
Originally posted by Nephthys
But Baldur's Gate is a videogame. QED.
But is based directly on DnD mechanics. But I guess if you want to be a baby about it. estahuh
Baldur's Gate is 2nd Edition and takes place in the Forgotten Realms, Faerûn. So Greyhawk does not apply. I think Mystra was the goddess of magic in Baldur's Gate. Theres a few churches you can wonder into. Waukeens, Mystras, Talos etc all the Faerûnian dieties around at the time.
Not really answering my question either, regardless. And Mystra is a filthy weak whore compared to the manliness of Boccob.
Creating a copy of Old One Eye is not outside of Irenicus' capabilities.
Prove it. :3
Originally posted by NemeBro
But is based directly on DnD mechanics. But I guess if you want to be a baby about it. estahuhNot really answering my question either, regardless. And Mystra is a filthy weak whore compared to the manliness of Boccob.
Prove it. :3
I do, so there.
Mystra ****ed Elminster.
Considering he's the creator of the Forgotten Realms Author Insert she basically ****ed God. That >>>>>>
Its just a big bug. Irenicus can create about 12 fully formed humanoids out of the ether without effort. I'm not seeing where you think he'll have trouble here.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I do, so there.
What a short girl with big bosom.
Mystra ****ed Elminster.Considering he's the creator of the Forgotten Realms Author Insert she basically ****ed God. That >>>>>>
Yes yes, we all know Elminster is a Mary Sue "WHO HAD HAWT SECKZ WITH THE GODDESS OF MAJIK WHOSE BEWBS WERE WAI HOOGE," but that's what makes her a skank.
Also, she's dead. Boccob is not. Boccob>
Its just a big bug. Irenicus can create about 12 fully formed humanoids out of the ether without effort. I'm not seeing where you think he'll have trouble here.
He is a big bug made of materials that don't exist in his universe and makes the Tarrasque look like a joke.
Well guys, that's really fascinating and all, but now I'd like to hear your thoughts on all of the 6 rounds. Here's mine:
1. Old One Eye probably wins without much effort, unless the Archdemon manages to turn his ability to fly into a decisive advantage. Still though, I am gonna give to OOE since the Archdemon likely won't even be able to really even damage OOE.
2. It's a tougher fight against Illidan. Not only can Illidan fly, but he can nuke pretty hard and summon elemental nasties to fight for him and is generally an adept sorcerer and fighter both. Illidan might cause some serious damage if he goes all out.
3. Don't know as much as I should about OoT Ganondorf, but if I'm to trust certain people here, then he's a very powerful sorcerer, has awesome TK, and high physical strength as well as durability. Might as well allow Composite Ganondorf to make it more interesting.
4. Neph has already said pretty much all there's to say about Jon Irenicus. I think he has a good chance at winning if he doesn't hold back.
5. Fatboy and its constructs probably just blow the shit out of everything before the 'Nids even realize what's going on. Likely needs more 'Nid gribblies.
6. Someone call the ambulance, there's gonna be an accident.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
1. Old One Eye probably wins without much effort, unless the Archdemon manages to turn his ability to fly into a decisive advantage. Still though, I am gonna give to OOE since the Archdemon likely won't even be able to really even damage OOE.
I would agree. OOE could frankly kill the Archdemon in a single attack.
2. It's a tougher fight against Illidan. Not only can Illidan fly, but he can nuke pretty hard and summon elemental nasties to fight for him and is generally an adept sorcerer and fighter both. Illidan might cause some serious damage if he goes all out.
I haven't seen anything from Illidan to suggest he could do much harm to OOE IMHO. Among Carnifexes, IIRC OOE's regeneration and ability to survive damage is unparalleled, though... Flying kind of makes this fight hilarious, since OOE doesn't actually have any way to harm a flying opponent.
3. Don't know as much as I should about OoT Ganondorf, but if I'm to trust certain people here, then he's a very powerful sorcerer, has awesome TK, and high physical strength as well as durability. Might as well allow Composite Ganondorf to make it more interesting.
Er, Composite Ganondorf has the full Triforce at his disposal. The only beings in 40k I'd argue against that are powerful Daemon Princes/Greater Daemons and their equivelants.
4. Neph has already said pretty much all there's to say about Jon Irenicus. I think he has a good chance at winning if he doesn't hold back.
I can't really say. What Neph has told me honestly comes off as No Limits nonsense and is without context. Never played Baldur's Gate 2, because I suck.
5. Fatboy and its constructs probably just blow the shit out of everything before the 'Nids even realize what's going on. Likely needs more 'Nid gribblies.
Pft, SupCom is overrated. 131
6. Someone call the ambulance, there's gonna be an accident.
OOE will accidentally rip Kiljaedan in half? estahuh
Originally posted by NemeBro
I can't really say. What Neph has told me honestly comes off as No Limits nonsense and is without context. Never played Baldur's Gate 2, because I suck.
The context is that he creates clones of your party and the inmates of the Wizard prison you're in (all of which are high-level mages) to fight your party. These clones iirc have all your magical equipment and abilities.
And creating a giant bug is certainly inside its capabilities and not a No-limits fallacy.
Originally posted by NephthysOld One Eye is a giant bug in the same way Superman is a dude wearing underwear.
The context is that he creates clones of your party and the inmates of the Wizard prison you're in (all of which are high-level mages) to fight your party. These clones iirc have all your magical equipment and abilities.And creating a giant bug is certainly inside its capabilities and not a No-limits fallacy.
It could probably clone Superman as well. Not a fully-powered Superman who has all of his powers from exposure to sunlight maybe, but as just a highly evolved alien, yeah probably.
Like, have you ever heard of a Simulcrum? Its the exact same thing. It conjures a perfect replica out of thin air. No matter if you're an Epic level Wizard with magic coming out of your nose. Its ****ing magic, it can do all sorts of crazy shit.
Originally posted by NephthysWrong, actually.
It could probably clone Superman as well. Not a fully-powered Superman who has all of his powers from exposure to sunlight maybe, but as just a highly evolved alien, yeah probably.Like, have you ever heard of a Simulcrum? Its the exact same thing. It conjures a perfect replica out of thin air. No matter if you're an Epic level Wizard with magic coming out of your nose. Its ****ing magic, it can do all sorts of crazy shit.
"Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of
any creature. The duplicate creature is
partially real and formed from ice or snow.
It appears to be the same as the original,
but it has only one-half of the real
creature’s levels or Hit Dice (and the
appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks,
and special abilities for a creature of that
level or HD). You can’t create a simulacrum
of a creature whose Hit Dice or
levels exceed twice your caster level. You
must make a Disguise check when you cast
the spell to determine how good the
likeness is. A creature familiar with the
original might detect the ruse with a successful
Spot check (opposed by the caster’s
Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive
check.
At all times the simulacrum remains
under your absolute command. No special
telepathic link exists, so command must be
exercised in some other manner. A
simulacrum has no ability to become more
powerful. It cannot increase its level or
abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or
otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and
melts instantly into nothingness. A
complex process requiring at least 24
hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully
equipped magical laboratory can repair
damage to a simulacrum."
A Simulcrum is weaker than the original creature, and you can't duplicate creatures which are too powerful.
Otherwise anyone with a seventh level spell could duplicate Demogorgon and make them fight eachother.
Can Jon perfectly duplicate Demogorgon and make him fight himself?
I merely used Simulcrum as an example of creating a duplicate. TBH I forgot about the copy being weaker because in Baldurs Gate its so easy to get around that (and the spells better in BG but only targets yourself). Just cure level-drain and bang, you have two high-level Wizards.
Demogorgan is perhaps too magical or too high up the Demon/Devil heirarchy to copy. But Irenicus did create clones of several high-level wizards and the party a once, so perhaps its not outside of the spells capabilities. But I don't see that being a problem with OOE. Its merely an efficiently put together bug.
Originally posted by NemeBro
I would agree. OOE could frankly kill the Archdemon in a single attack.I haven't seen anything from Illidan to suggest he could do much harm to OOE IMHO. Among Carnifexes, IIRC OOE's regeneration and ability to survive damage is unparalleled, though... Flying kind of makes this fight hilarious, since OOE doesn't actually have any way to harm a flying opponent.
Er, Composite Ganondorf has the full Triforce at his disposal. The only beings in 40k I'd argue against that are powerful Daemon Princes/Greater Daemons and their equivelants.
I can't really say. What Neph has told me honestly comes off as No Limits nonsense and is without context. Never played Baldur's Gate 2, because I suck.
Pft, SupCom is overrated. 131
OOE will accidentally rip Kiljaedan in half? estahuh
Though the Archdemon can fly, I reckon it would eventually get too close to OOE and get slaughtered.
I imagine OOE would be in a lot of trouble if Illidan managed to hit his eye-socket with his awesome eye-lasers. As for Illidan, he got quite a few power boosts throughout his life: from Sargeras, Skull of Gul'dan, Kil'jaeden, etc. Though he still managed to lose a fight to Death Knight Arthas. Most agree it was a quite the PIS moment, but either way that was embarrassing.
Oh yea, sans the full Triforce. Naturally.
Overrated by who? 😛 I didn't know there was even anyone out there to overrate SupCom.
Rip him in half? By grabbing his (illusory) hoof-hair? 🤣 Besides, shouldn't the Hierophant do the ripping in this case?
Originally posted by Nephthys
I merely used Simulcrum as an example of creating a duplicate. TBH I forgot about the copy being weaker because in Baldurs Gate its so easy to get around that (and the spells better in BG but only targets yourself). Just cure level-drain and bang, you have two high-level Wizards.Demogorgan is perhaps too magical or too high up the Demon/Devil heirarchy to copy. But Irenicus did create clones of several high-level wizards and the party a once, so perhaps its not outside of the spells capabilities. But I don't see that being a problem with OOE. Its merely an efficiently put together bug.
Er, Demogorgon is far above your average high-level Wizard, much further.
Demogorgon showed up out of nowhere and proceeded to rape a horde of Demon Lords and force Orcus and Graz'zt to bow to him. The only other Demon Lord you can make a realistic claim of maybe being more powerful is Dagon, who gets bonus points as a Lovecraft reference.
I AM JUST SAYING.
I am mostly trolling when talking about OOE though.
Hm.
What is the copy spell called?
Originally posted by NemeBro
Er, Demogorgon is far above your average high-level Wizard, much further.Demogorgon showed up out of nowhere and proceeded to rape a horde of Demon Lords and force Orcus and Graz'zt to bow to him. The only other Demon Lord you can make a realistic claim of maybe being more powerful is Dagon, who gets bonus points as a Lovecraft reference.
I AM JUST SAYING.
I am mostly trolling when talking about OOE though.
Hm.
What is the copy spell called?
Ah. I got the impression he wasn't that great seeing as you get to kill him in the Baldur's Gate 2 expansion. So, yeah, probably not ging to work on him then.
Spawn Clones. I'm pretty sure it was made up for the game. Even the wiki doesn't really talk about it. According to TVTropes the clones do not have equipment. Oh well, my memories bad anyway.
Nephy what was the context behind this beating up of Demogorgon? O:
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Though the Archdemon can fly, I reckon it would eventually get too close to OOE and get slaughtered.
I really think there is absolutely nothing at all the Archdemon can do to hurt OOE. At all. Ever. Seriously.
I imagine OOE would be in a lot of trouble if Illidan managed to hit his eye-socket with his awesome eye-lasers. As for Illidan, he got quite a few power boosts throughout his life: from Sargeras, Skull of Gul'dan, Kil'jaeden, etc. Though he still managed to lose a fight to Death Knight Arthas. Most agree it was a quite the PIS moment, but either way that was embarrassing.
How the hell did he lose to Arthas using what is essentially just a really cool sword? 😬 Or maybe I am overrating Arthas.
With Illidan it depends on him playing smart with OOE. Trying to fight it in melee combat is pretty much just begging for it to kill him dead. But flying around and shooting lasers at it and shit? Well, that could work if it can damage it, yeah.
Oh yea, sans the full Triforce. Naturally.
Hm. Ganondorf can also fly... Lol. Who would of thought that flight and decent ranged capabilities would gimp a Carnifex so much?
Overrated by who? 😛 I didn't know there was even anyone out there to overrate SupCom.
Some guy on DakkaDakka. The only thing useful I got out of that thread is:
- The units are big
- They have excellent production capabilities.
Which is fair enough, but they need something more substantial than that.
Rip him in half? By grabbing his (illusory) hoof-hair? 🤣 Besides, shouldn't the Hierophant do the ripping in this case?
Pft, cowardly sorcery. Khorne frowns on such nonsense.
The Hierophant would be better for it, yeah, having long bladed limbs of awesomeness that are faster than you may think. The Hierophant is incredibly agile for its size.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Nephy what was the context behind this beating up of Demogorgon? O:How the hell did he lose to Arthas using what is essentially just a really cool sword? 😬 Or maybe I am overrating Arthas.
Your parties locked in a small room with him and then you beat him up. It helps that the player character is the child of a God and imbued with his divine essence btw.