Achilles vs. Darth Vader (ROTS pre suit)

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
This is why Star Wars without the exposition of the novels and EU is kinda lame. All we have are perceived film feats and the various interpretations of them. EU Vader, Force or not, would trounce Achilles. But films alone, I'm not so impressed by Anakin's skills as to give him "Win, cuz precog." Against an ordinary man, sure, but against someone with the speed, reflexes, and overall skill as Brad Pitt, I'm not as confident. Throw in a saber resistant shield, something no Jedi in the films is ever seen going up against, and my money's on Achilles more often than not.

This is very true. Nevertheless, we see Jedi being able to dodge futuristic blaster fire from all sides.

Besides, if we are under the notion that Anakin is just under par of Yoda, he *should* be winning this fight.

Should be. But Yoda's tiny size and erratic movements would be incredibly hard for any one to land a blow on. I wouldn't give Achilles many victories in that match-up. But as they've been displayed, Jedi precognitive powers aren't very impressive. We see plenty of them drop at Geonosis, plenty more Masters fall to clones, and Darth Retard watching in awe as Kenobi takes forever to get the jump on him. PIS removed, it would seem precognition comes and goes, often at random times. And at the most, precognition allows them a split second of warning to react appropriately. Frankly, I see Achilles, a man who's become what he is without the aid of mental powers, overwhelming that timeframe.

One thing about Anakin also. Anakin lost his first battle against Dooku and came back with help again. I am not saying Anakin wasn't better in round 2 but most don't live through a loss like he has. Anakin also at his most skilled went down against Obi whom he was a better fighter than.

Anakin is highly overrated and lost to opponents he was more skilled than. Achilles was >>than Hector and >>>>>than anyone else by far in Troy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
One thing about Anakin also. Anakin lost his first battle against Dooku and came back with help again. I am not saying Anakin wasn't better in round 2 but most don't live through a loss like he has. Anakin also at his most skilled went down against Obi whom he was a better fighter than.

2 29 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuknIqvofk

Korto, does something this awesome maybe change your mind ? I mean he does so easily while not even focusing or looking at the archer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This thread is about seeing who is the better swordsman. Achilles is just a slightly superhuman/highly skilled warrior he had no way out getting past a force choke.

The Vader/Kenobi fight in Ep3 is probably a faster pace of sword play and acrobatics than anything Achilles was shown doing.

The Force-Precog also gives Vader an edge. Achilles has his own type of battle-precog though, there's just less of it in his one film.

Originally posted by quanchi112
2 29 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuknIqvofk

Korto, does something this awesome maybe change your mind ? I mean he does so easily while not even focusing or looking at the archer.

Anakin could have done all that imo.

In the second movie he jumps off a speeder and lands on a another one about a mile below him with perfect timing. That level of skill and awareness is something Achilles has never accomplished, nor could ever with his abilities.

Originally posted by Robtard
Fair enough.

The Vader/Kenobi fight in Ep3 is probably a faster pace of sword play and acrobatics than anything Achilles was shown doing.

The Force-Precog also gives Vader an edge. Achilles has his own type of battle-precog though, there's just less of it in his one film.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin could have done all that imo.

In the second movie he jumps off a speeder and lands on a another one about a mile below him with perfect timing. That level of skill and awareness is something Achilles has never accomplished, nor could ever with his abilities.

Anakin is better at jumping I will give him that but if these two have a spear vs. saber tossing contest for ACCURACY I think Anakin would definitely be shown up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well I don't know about that. Anakin also lost that fight due to being mind blowingly stupid. Pre cog has failed so many times it won't be a huge edge if at all.

He lost due to rage and Kenobi being a total bad-ass himself; Achilles lost to a girly-man with a bow, so let's just focus on their best and not drag this into idiocy. Point stands, compare that fight to Achilles', it's a faster level of swordsmanship and acrobatics.

Precog has worked far more times than it failed. Count how many times Jedi have successfully blocked blaster-fire; it's more than the times they didn't and/or were surprised. So you can drop that baseless statement, it's not saving Achilles here.

Originally posted by Robtard
He lost due to rage and Kenobi being a total bad-ass himself; Achilles lost to a girly-man with a bow, so let's just focus on their best and not drag this into idiocy. Point stands, compare that fight to Achilles', it's a faster level of swordsmanship and acrobatics.

Precog has worked far more times than it failed. Count how many times Jedi have successfully blocked blaster-fire; it's more than the times they didn't and/or were surprised. So you can drop that baseless statement, it's not saving Achilles here.

In an up close fight with someone of Achilles precog isn't winning this. Achilles skill was knocking off arrows while not even focusing on them due to skill alone.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kenobi isn't a badass. He lost to an inferior opponent in combat and showed in an extended fight he couldn't best him prior to. Achilles was spooning a woman at the time so in combat he's undefeated unlike Anakin who needs a rematch to best everyone of note.

In an up close fight with someone of Achilles precog isn't winning this. Achilles skill was knocking off arrows while not even focusing on them due to skill alone.

Kenobi is a bad-ass, your need to downplay is irrelevant. He fared extremely well against Darth Maul while only a padawan.

Vader's precog has far more showings than Achilles' couple, he's also the superior acrobat. Achilles' precog failed him in the end as well, nice of you to ignore this.

Is Achilles your next MVF man-crush? Cos your methods are telling.

Originally posted by Robtard
Kenobi is a bad-ass, your need to downplay is irrelevant. He fared extremely well against Darth Maul while only a padawan.

Vader's precog has far more showings than Achilles' couple, he's also the superior acrobat. Achilles' precog failed him in the end as well, nice of you to ignore this.

Is Achilles your next MVF man-crush? Cos your methods are telling.

Vader's precog failed to prevent him from jumping to his doom against Obi. His precog was so off even Obi actually saying you can't do it you will lose had no effect. Precog is so overrated I can't believe it's an actual point.

Just because Achilles wins there's no reason to cry about it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well Anakin hasn't done it. The manner in which he stormed the beach with one boatload of troops and took it is far more impressive than Anakin storming the jedi temple with thousands of clone troopers.

Anakin is better at jumping I will give him that but if these two have a spear vs. saber tossing contest for ACCURACY I think Anakin would definitely be shown up.

😬

He most certainly has done it. Anakin has repeatedly over the movies walked through battles batting blaster fire away by the dozens.

Accuracy?! He leapt off a speeder and landed on a moving speeder miles below him. That is insane accuracy. Furthermore, Anakin has such accuracy that he can angle his lightsaber blade just so that the blaster bolt bounces off it and hits what he wants it to. Again, far greater accuracy that Achilles. When he bounces arrows off his sword into other people let me know.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In an up close fight with someone of Achilles precog isn't winning this. Achilles skill was knocking off arrows while not even focusing on them due to skill alone.

YouTube video

1.40 he replicates the feat you're hyping so much with contemptuous ease.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If by faring extremely well you mean being beaten and getting lucky while Maul taunted him then sure.

Vader's precog failed to prevent him from jumping to his doom against Obi. His precog was so off even Obi actually saying you can't do it you will lose had no effect. Precog is so overrated I can't believe it's an actual point.

Just because Achilles wins there's no reason to cry about it.

Considering he was a Padawan, he fare extremely well.

Yet again, we see Force Battle-Precog work more time than it failed. So your statement is just further downplaying.

Vader/Kenobi fight in EP3 show he's better than Achilles at swordsmanship, hes clearly the better acrobat and he has blocked many-multiples of blaster-fire rounds compared to Achilles blocking a few arrows.. All you can do is downplay the character you want to see lose.

Originally posted by Nephthys
😬

He most certainly has done it. Anakin has repeatedly over the movies walked through battles batting blaster fire away by the dozens.

Accuracy?! He leapt off a speeder and landed on a moving speeder miles below him. That is insane accuracy. Furthermore, Anakin has such accuracy that he can angle his lightsaber blade just so that the blaster bolt bounces off it and hits what he wants it to. Again, far greater accuracy that Achilles. When he bounces arrows off his sword into other people let me know.

YouTube video

1.40 he replicates the feat you're hyping so much with contemptuous ease.

Yes, his precog can help with jumping off a speeder.....that isn't saving him in a one on one duel here. Achilles makes great fighters look like average men unlike Anakin who has been beaten twice.

Arrows also seem to move faster than blaster fire.

Originally posted by Robtard
Considering he was a Padawan, he fare extremely well.

Yet again, we see Force Battle-Precog work more time than it failed. So your statement is just further downplaying.

Vader/Kenobi fight in EP3 show he's better than Achilles at swordsmanship, hes clearly the better acrobat and he has blocked many-multiples of blaster-fire rounds compared to Achilles blocking a few arrows.. All you can do is downplay the character you want to see lose.

It fails in battles with an opponent with a saber. It failed him against Dooku and Obi. It fails him here. I am consistent with the movies you aren't.

It doesn't prove he's better than Achilles by any stretch of the imagination. Anakin for all his jump flips it got him nowhere against an inferior opponent. Achilles is his superior and toyed with Hector. The closest the second greatest swordsman got was grazing his chest plate.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles stormed the beach with just one boatload of men. He was up against hundreds and the environment was much more wide open than one room with around 20 men/droids.

Yes, his precog can help with jumping off a speeder.....that isn't saving him in a one on one duel here. Achilles makes great fighters look like average men unlike Anakin who has been beaten twice.

Arrows also seem to move faster than blaster fire.

Geonosis was bigger and every single enemy had blaster rifles, as opposed to the, what 5 or 6 archers on the beach. Furthermore Anakin fought extensively in the Clone Wars and was in fact the War-Hero of the whole thing. In the Clone Wars movie (which was apparantly so unpopular youtube had limited videos of it) he fights a ****ton of droids and pretty much casually owns the lot of them. And lets not forget the Hanger scene from ROTS when he and Obi-Wan defeat about 50 droids again wih ease.

Yes it is. Anakin's incredible precog and awareness can only be a big advantage in the fight. Its far above the 'skill' you claim will give Achilles the win. Anakin has better feats period and will defeat Achilles. Also Achilles only does fight average men. Anakin fights superhumans. Do the math.

Well they are not. It just seems that way because blaster bolts are very bright.

Also Anakin's robot-hand is much stronger than Achilles is. It was able to support the wieght of 3 grown men without much difficulty. Anakin is definately stronger than Achilles.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Geonosis was bigger and every single enemy had blaster rifles, as opposed to the, what 5 or 6 archers on the beach. Furthermore Anakin fought extensively in the Clone Wars and was in fact the War-Hero of the whole thing. In the Clone Wars movie (which was apparantly so unpopular youtube had limited videos of it) he fights a ****ton of droids and pretty much casually owns the lot of them. And lets not forget the Hanger scene from ROTS when he and Obi-Wan defeat about 50 droids again wih ease.

Yes it is. Anakin's incredible precog and awareness can only be a big advantage in the fight. Its far above the 'skill' you claim will give Achilles the win. Anakin has better feats period and will defeat Achilles. Also Achilles only does fight average men. Anakin fights superhumans. Do the math.

Well they are not. It just seems that way because blaster bolts are very bright.

Also Anakin's robot-hand is much stronger than Achilles is. It was able to support the wieght of 3 grown men without much difficulty. Anakin is definately stronger than Achilles.

His precog failed him twice in his first Dooku fight and even against an inferior please don't jump Anakin you can't win Obi. Being told you can't win and doing so anyways shows precog isn't as impressive as you previously thought.

Anakin isn't tossing that spear as far as Achilles is. His hand really didn't help him against Obi either.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The droids are very slow to react and would easily be owned once you close the gap. Human opponents attacks would be harder to anticipate due to the stupidity of the droids. They line up and make it easy to be owned.

His precog failed him twice in his first Dooku fight and even against an inferior please don't jump Anakin you can't win Obi. Being told you can't win and doing so anyways shows precog isn't as impressive as you previously thought.

Anakin isn't tossing that spear as far as Achilles is. His hand really didn't help him against Obi either.

What and those soldiers on the beach weren't? They practically ran on to his sword. And no actually its the other way around since the droids are attacking from a distance and because Anakin was sorrounded on all sides by them. Not the mention the Super Battledroids which fire extremely quickly and powerfully.

His precog failed against Dooku is something you hold against him? Dooku was one of the most skilled fighters in the Jedi Order and was an even more powerful Sith Lord. The man was fighting mother ****ing Yoda equally. And yet Anakin defeated him in both ROTS and the Clone Wars movie. And Obi-Wan was another Jedi, so again, a superhuman opponent.

Indeed. Anakin would toss it much farther. Obi-Wan was able to block the blows of Grievous, a cyborg who punched a dent in a Star Ship hull. Obi-Wan is also much stronger than Achilles. And yeah it did, or did you miss the part where Anakin was manhandling Obi-Wan in CQC.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What and those soldiers on the beach weren't? They practically ran on to his sword. And no actually its the other way around since the droids are attacking from a distance and because Anakin was sorrounded on all sides by them. Not the mention the Super Battledroids which fire extremely quickly and powerfully.

His precog failed against [b]Dooku is something you hold against him? Dooku was one of the most skilled fighters in the Jedi Order and was an even more powerful Sith Lord. The man was fighting mother ****ing Yoda equally. And yet Anakin defeated him in both ROTS and the Clone Wars movie. And Obi-Wan was another Jedi, so again, a superhuman opponent.

Indeed. Anakin would toss it much farther. Obi-Wan was able to block the blows of Grievous, a cyborg who punched a dent in a Star Ship hull. Obi-Wan is also much stronger than Achilles. And yeah it did, or did you miss the part where Anakin was manhandling Obi-Wan in CQC. [/B]

I take into consideration the times against skilled fighters it fails. It fails him all the time and against Dooku it failed him badly twice in one fight. He stupidly rushed right in yet you claim precog is awesome ? LOL. One force blast is something precog should clue you in on.

I don't see Anakin tossing it anywhere near the distance Achilles has been shown able to do.

Grievous was stronger than Anakin so blocking a blow doesn't prove he's uber strong. Obi also blocked his attacks and survived his flesh being hit by Grievous.

Anakin wasn't manhandling him he tried choking him but was kicked off pretty quickly. It was a back and forth battle where Obi kicked him to the ground as well. Neither seemed that strong.