Achilles vs. Legolas

Originally posted by Korto Vos

Spoiler:
......they have microscopic "meatwarriors," as Gid likes to call em.

😉

Originally posted by Borbarad
Wow. Apparently, I have to spell it out for you.
I've tried to fill the giant gap between your ears with some knowledge that could be useful when discussing an ancient Greek warhero - namely: ancient Greek warfare. The link answers two questions you have asked me:

a) Why the enemies don't surround Achilles
b) How I know that those are trusting spears

You see: As demonstrated in the battle right in front of the city gates, the Troy soldiers fight as Phalanx. The soldiers in a phalanx (hoplites) usually carry heavy (rather large) shields and trusting spears and act as a unit. This method of fighting was so crucial to Greek infantry, that they coined the phrase "e tan a epi tas" meaning "with it or on it", refering to the heavy shield the hoplites carried. It was considered a cardinal sin to flee the Phalanx formation, because once it was broken, the soldiers were rather helpless and they could only flee from battle, when throwing their heavy shield away.

So the answers to your questions are: They are constantly outmanouvred by Achilles, because they carry around those heavy shields and use trusting weapons, designed for a combat range father than that of Achilles sword. No spear throwing at your favorite happening, I'm afraid.

He throws one spear and hits one target. Where do you find the material needed to conclude that he can always hit in the same situation? Because there isn't a second demonstration of his skill in spear throwing? This is especially funny, coming from the guy that attempts to talk down Legolas, because of delivering a grant total of two shots not lethal over the course of three movies, firing several hundred arrows.
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Are you nuts?
Gandalf can just block his attack, because he blinded Legolas before he loses his arrow which would logically result in a lack of accuracy, and has magic to deflect the arrow.
The Uruk Hai was running through a narrow alley between other Uruk Hai with Legolas being rather far away from him. Despite of that circumstances, he still manages to hit him twice, which - even though Legolas failed to kill his target - is a display of finest archery skills. I wonder, how you fail to recognize it as such. Bias? Probably.

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Legolas is a highly skilled archer when did I ever say otherwise ? Just because he doesn't successfully kill Achilles doesn't mean he should place his head in the sand. His skills aren't good enough to beat a battle focused/ready Achilles.

Neph claimed, that I'm the smartest guy that he knows. And as such, I can tell you once more that you are either missing or dodging the point.

The arrows would come flying with 240-360 kph over a distance of 30 feet, which gives Achilles a great total of 0,1 to 0,15 seconds in order to react to an arrow shot. So...if he does so much as blink, he dies. It is completely impossible, that he manages to react to a shot by moving his shield in a position to block it in that short amount of time. And even if he could:

YouTube video

At 0:53, Legolas puts an arrow through two Orcs attacking him, which means that the arrow has enough power to pierce at least three layers of metal armor and one Orc, with still enough energy left to kill the second Orc as well. I'd say Achilles' shield and armor would be completely useless. But maybe you want to hand in an argument, that he is capable of dodging Legolas shots. 🙄 [/B]

"2" is not "almost 4 million". And now acknowledge, that it is far harder to block an arrow than do the same to a trusting spear, so that I can accept your concession and be done with this idiocy.

He doesn't have anything, unless it is mentioned or shown on screen. Stop making up feats and abilities for your favorite character - it's simple ridiculous.
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Right. May I point to the fact, that the entire fellowship was hacking away on the troll, without archiving much. And no - this is no reason to talk the companions down, but demonstrates the durability of the troll. And what about the Mumakill? Ignored again.

Legolas in a swordfight with Hector? Either you did miss how the elf handles his blades - as usual - or you hold the same bias for Hector you have for Achilles. You may watch the video above. There is a short sequence of him mawing down "fodder", offing two Uruk Hai in two seconds.
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Legolas is good against fodder but then again so is Gimli. Can Gimli defeat Hector now too ? You're hopeless.

How does Gandalf need to react in a way that Achilles would need to react? Gandalf had the benefit of magic, using it to blind Legolas. Then he again uses magic to repel the arrow. He doesn't need to react on the arrow at all, since summoning some kind of magical field in front of him would be enough to get the job done. An easier task, mind you, than Achilles would be confronted with, provided he will face Legolas without blinding the elf (higher accuracy) at a closer distance (less reaction time). [/B]

How is storming the beach better than the usual adventures of the fellowship. Achilles doesn't slaughter anybody of decent skill in his take on the beach, faces less opponents than Legolas does in almost every situation of the movie and generates less kills than the elfs. So how is his feat better? There is nothing to put him above Legolas there - not even something making him on par with the elf. [/B]

Easy to hit? Either you honestly no idea about archery, are devoid of reason or just exhibit bias once more. Look at the scene, look from where Legolas attempts to hit the target. Factor in movement speed and the cover present in form of the countless Uruk Hai surrounding the target. There is no way any human archer would have even managed to hit that target at all - much less twice in a row.

And Achilles shield would be utterly useless against Legolas considering the range and the power behind the shots of the elf. [/B]

Holy shit.
How is his accuracy affected by the skill of his target? Correct: It is not. You try to argue two absolute exceptions in which - funny fact - Legolas did still hit his mark against impossible odds. What is your point? Attempting to talk down a character on his lowest showings, which are still impressive to everybody not completely devoid of common sense? [/B]

You fail to acknowledge, that even his "failure" makes him look pretty uber, because you understand jack shit about the art of fighting, which you have demonstrated by trying to sell us, that it's harder to block a spear with a sword, than deflecting an arrow using one. Do you want to litter this thread with more bullshit?

And now, it's character design that wins fights? Seriously?
But you're correct. Achilles is beyond Legolas in much the same vein as you are beyond me: just in your imagination. 🙂 [/B]

Legolas didn't kill anyone highly skilled in 3 films. 3 films. That's pathetic. He like Gimli took down the enemy in droves. That's it. Achilles takes out nations greatest fighters in one attack. That's how great he is. That's how great I am. 🙂

Rather easy, provided I already won three postings ago and just spent my time here, out of curiousity, if that fact will ever make it to Quanchiland. [/B]

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see Achilles use the dear phalanx formation and then break ranks. He also throws a spear you ninny. At this point I am assuming you didn't watch the movie at all.

No he doesn't, he uses Testudo formation, stupid. Achilles soldiers were Myrmidons and they most certainly did not use Phalanx formation. You can tell by their shields, they're much too small for an effective Phalanx.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he doesn't, he uses Testudo formation, stupid. Achilles soldiers were Myrmidons and they most certainly did not use Phalanx formation. You can tell by their shields, they're much too small for an effective Phalanx.

Thats Testudo formation.

This is Phalanx:

This is Testudo:

The key to Phalanx is that you always have someone beside you to watch your back and you always stay together. Achilles out manouvered them by breaking them up and fighting them one by one instead of as a unit. The key to Testudo is to mimic a turtle and form a shield shell to stop arrows.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats Testudo formation.

This is Phalanx:

This is Testudo:

The key to Phalanx is that you always have someone beside you to watch your back and you always stay together. Achilles out manouvered them by breaking them up and fighting them one by one instead of as a unit. The key to Testudo is to mimic a turtle and form a shield shell to stop arrows.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What the hell did they do then when they combined their shields initially on the beach ? what would you call it ? You spear men toss spears at it and shoot arrows and nothing penetrates. I'm right you're wrong.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he doesn't, he uses Testudo formation, stupid. Achilles soldiers were Myrmidons and they most certainly did not use Phalanx formation. You can tell by their shields, they're much too small for an effective Phalanx.

Director taking liberties and stepping outside of reality isn't something new. The Phallanx started being used around sometime between 800-600 BC, iirc, before that the Greeks fought as a rabble of men. Troy is supposed to take place around the 13th-12th century BC. That wasn't a Phallanx, it was The Turtle, as Neph clearly pointed out, history be damned.

Achilles' armor is also pure fantasy and designed more to show off Pitt's physique so the women and gays can cream.

Legolas also was armed with twin silver blade short swords.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Legolas also was armed with twin silver blade short swords.

Originally posted by Robtard
Director taking liberties and stepping outside of reality isn't something new. The Phallanx started being used around sometime between 800-600 BC, iirc, before that the Greeks fought as a rabble of men. Troy is supposed to take place around the 13th-12th century BC. That wasn't a Phallanx, it was The Turtle, as Neph clearly pointed out, history be damned.

Achilles' armor is also pure fantasy and designed more to show off Pitt's physique so the women and gays can cream.

Don't argue ancient history with me, brobeans.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see Achilles use the dear phalanx formation and then break ranks. He also throws a spear you ninny. At this point I am assuming you didn't watch the movie at all.

I must have missed the point in the movie in which the Myrmidons are moving side by side in closed formation, like the Spartans in 300. That's the Phalanx. It's astonishing that you claims something like this, since you keep pointing at the fact, that Achilles did practically take the beach on his own the entire time.
And wow, he throws two spears in the entire movie and manages to hit with them. I'm totally impressed. That certainly indicates mega-accuracy.

Achilles hits his targets when he throws his spear in killing fashion. I won't claim he never misses either unlike you who claim Legoals can tear off a nose hair from 900 yards away. You're unrealistic whereas I simply am realistic.

The fact remains, that Legolas did never miss a target. He was just blocked by magic once and didn't deliver lethal hits with two more arrows. Hilarity ensues.

Nuts--nah. He didn't blind Legolas he just made the distinct features of his face hard to see not the outline of his body.

Am I the only person who sees a bright blinding light flooding over the trio from Gandalfs direction? Of course this did blind Legolas, which is why he is almost closing his eyes and needs far longer than usual to fire his bow.

His accuracy wasn't the problem Gandalf simply negated the attack. Gandalf a guy who slowly watches a fireball come after him from a giant tower.

And again: You attempt to talk the characters down. Yup. Gandalf did watch the fireball, knowing it couldn't harm him at all. Point? Did you want to use that as an indicator, that he wasn't able to react in that time. Coherence in arguments would be a great thing.

Legolas is a highly skilled archer when did I ever say otherwise ? Just because he doesn't successfully kill Achilles doesn't mean he should place his head in the sand. His skills aren't good enough to beat a battle focused/ready Achilles.

He will simple put an arrow through Achilles shield, armor and into Achilles body. Achilles will use the same "WTF?"-face he makes, when Hector cuts his breast armor open and die. End of story.

Sorry but we don't see any arrows pierce his shield to this point and it's only one example which you seem obsessed with. You break 1 feat down and act like it occurs 100 percent of the time. You're unrealistic. It's sad.

With the exception of the fact that it does happen all the time on screen. Legolas arrows always pierce armor, if not landing on an unarmored spot anyway. There is not a single occassion at which any kind of armor or shield is shown to block one of his arrows.

I've repeated myself over this ridiculous almost argument for far too long. Get over it. I am not making up anything I am simply describing the scene and what's going on in it. To say he doesn't have battle awareness is being bullheaded.

Of course he has battle awareness.
Yet, battle awareness - no matter how good - doesn't allow you to react to stuff happening behind your back and do so before the action behind your back occures. For this, one would need to have some sort of superhuman senses - which Achilles doesn't have.

Yes, and we've seen Gandalf take out something far more powerful so who cares. ASn archer beneits against a troll as opposed to Aragorn. The Mumakill is another situation where Legolas' style is better suited than a skilled swordsman.

Legolas' style is also better suited, when it comes to killing an opponent 30 feet away, which he will do to Achilles, who will either find himself in the dumb situation to receive an arrow through one of his body parts not covered by his shield, or watch in terror, as Legolas' arrow flies right through his shield and pierces his chest.

Legolas is good against fodder but then again so is Gimli. Can Gimli defeat Hector now too ? You're hopeless.

Your inability to come up with something that would qualify as an argument is hopeless. If it were Superman from "Superman Returns" against Achilles, would you also go "Superman just fights against fodder in this movie. So he is just good against fodder..." Do you understand how utterly ridiculous this is?

Gandalf moves just as Achilles moves. We see Achilles move his shield into the appropriate place. Legolas' accuracy wasn't the issue either it was Gandalf's quicker reaction.

It was Gandalfs magic that - unlike any armor in the LotR movies and unlike Achilles shield and armor - was actually able to stop one of Legolas' arrows shot from that low distance.

Because his smaller forces win an epic battle unlike Legolas who needed either a ghost army to bail him out or Gandalf's reinforcements on top of being atop Helms Deep. That's pathetic. Legolas also didn't lead anyone it was Aragorn. Achilles is far smarter in battle and leads armies unlike Legolas who spends his time shooting arrows and flirting with dwarves.

Did you watch the video I've linked you to. It shows the Battle on the Amon Hen, the last fight in the first movie. We pretty much see Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas and Boromir tearing through a rather large group of Uruk Hai, with just a small faction of the original force managing to escape from the place.

And Achilles is smart? It didn't look particulary clever, to land on the beach and lose your own man, when you had an entire army on your back to take it - just because you wanted some honor. It likewise didn't seem to be smart, to move right in front of the enemy city, where your enemies could easily destroy you with their amassed strength, just to challenge Hector - for nothing but revenge.

Achilles is a freaking moron, who is just in for his honor and doesn't give a damn about anything else but having his name written down in some history book.

I said Legolas' skill is impressive but it isn't getting over against Achilles' superior skills. No, it wouldn't be useless just like it wasn't useless against the arrow on the beach.

How can a single individual be so clueless about physics?
Since Legolas has a bow operating with a greater force than anything available to Troy archers, coupled with better arrows (read: steel vs bronze) and fires from a far smaller range, his arrow would hit Achilles shield with a far greater force and with a higher piercing effect.

For one Achilles is moving and secondly he has the skills necessary to block it. Legolas failed at Helms Deep. It was pathetic of someone of his skill. He's no Joe Montana.

🙄
It was just another demonstration of his skill, because the shot was virtually impossible - yet, he managed to do it twice. No other archer in Helm's Deep did even attempt to hit the target. That wasn't pathetic, because you like it to be pathetic.
And who cares if Achilles is moving or has an ineffective shield?

I never said he wasn't uber he's just not as uber as you believe he is.

Since I'm playing the rational part here, while you delive insane and fanboyish rambling and nothing else, I guess my judgement is more accurate than yours.

Legolas didn't kill anyone highly skilled in 3 films. 3 films. That's pathetic. He like Gimli took down the enemy in droves. That's it. Achilles takes out nations greatest fighters in one attack. That's how great he is. That's how great I am. smile

Yoda doesn't kill anybody high skilled in the five films he is in. Obi-Wan does. Therefore Obi-Wan > Yoda. Wow. This is brilliant logic. God doesn't smite anybody in "Bruce almighty" - he must suck, despite he's omnipotent and immortal. 🙄

Quanchiland planted a flag on your butthole in Germany. I own you.

Quanchiland does not only lack the required brain cells to find Germany on a map, it also fails to own anything, as its existance is limited to the black hole between your ears.

Originally posted by Mindset
There was evidence of the phalanx or phalanx like warfare being used as early at the Sumerians. Greeks started in like 750 BC. Actually, a phalanx could form a turtle like formation similar to a testudo, but they didn't stay in that formation, that is the difference. Was a phalanx.

Don't argue ancient history with me, brobeans.

You basically repeated what I said concerning the Greek usage of a phalanx time-wise and then misinterpreted the scene. Nice of you to ignore it was also too early for a phalanx for the Greeks.

Yeah, wiki is useful.

Originally posted by Robtard
You basically repeated what I said concerning the Greek usage of a phalanx time-wise and then misinterpreted the scene. Nice of you to ignore it was also too early for a phalanx for the Greeks.

Yeah, wiki is useful.

A couple years worth of ancient history classes is more useful.

Look up the differences between phalanx and testudo.

This is a simple example of me being right and you being wrong.

Originally posted by Borbarad
I must have missed the point in the movie in which the Myrmidons are moving side by side in closed formation, like the Spartans in 300. That's the Phalanx. It's astonishing that you claims something like this, since you keep pointing at the fact, that Achilles did practically take the beach on his own the entire time.
And wow, he throws two spears in the entire movie and manages to hit with them. I'm totally impressed. That certainly indicates mega-accuracy.

Tee hee.

The fact remains, that Legolas did never miss a target. He was just blocked by magic once and didn't deliver lethal hits with two more arrows. Hilarity ensues.
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Am I the only person who sees a bright blinding light flooding over the trio from Gandalfs direction? Of course this did blind Legolas, which is why he is almost closing his eyes and needs far longer than usual to fire his bow. [/B]

And again: You attempt to talk the characters down. Yup. Gandalf did watch the fireball, knowing it couldn't harm him at all. Point? Did you want to use that as an indicator, that he wasn't able to react in that time. Coherence in arguments would be a great thing. [/B]

Tee hee.

He will simple put an arrow through Achilles shield, armor and into Achilles body. Achilles will use the same "WTF?"-face he makes, when Hector cuts his breast armor open and die. End of story. [/B]

With the exception of the fact that it does happen all the time on screen. Legolas arrows always pierce armor, if not landing on an unarmored spot anyway. There is not a single occassion at which any kind of armor or shield is shown to block one of his arrows.

Of course he has battle awareness.
Yet, battle awareness - no matter how good - doesn't allow you to react to stuff happening behind your back and do so before the action behind your back occures. For this, one would need to have some sort of superhuman senses - which Achilles doesn't have. [/B]

Legolas' style is also better suited, when it comes to killing an opponent 30 feet away, which he will do to Achilles, who will either find himself in the dumb situation to receive an arrow through one of his body parts not covered by his shield, or watch in terror, as Legolas' arrow flies right through his shield and pierces his chest. [/B]

Your inability to come up with something that would qualify as an argument is hopeless. If it were Superman from "Superman Returns" against Achilles, would you also go "Superman just fights against fodder in this movie. So he is just good against fodder..." Do you understand how utterly ridiculous this is? [/B]

Tee hee.

It was Gandalfs magic that - unlike any armor in the LotR movies and unlike Achilles shield and armor - was actually able to stop one of Legolas' arrows shot from that low distance.

Did you watch the video I've linked you to. It shows the Battle on the Amon Hen, the last fight in the first movie. We pretty much see Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas and Boromir tearing through a rather large group of Uruk Hai, with just a small faction of the original force managing to escape from the place. [/B]

Yes, killing fodder whoopty doo.

And Achilles is smart? It didn't look particulary clever, to land on the beach and lose your own man, when you had an entire army on your back to take it - just because you wanted some honor. It likewise didn't seem to be smart, to move right in front of the enemy city, where your enemies could easily destroy you with their amassed strength, just to challenge Hector - for nothing but revenge. [/B]

Achilles is a freaking moron, who is just in for his honor and doesn't give a damn about anything else but having his name written down in some history book.
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How can a single individual be so clueless about physics?
Since Legolas has a bow operating with a greater force than anything available to Troy archers, coupled with better arrows (read: steel vs bronze) and fires from a far smaller range, his arrow would hit Achilles shield with a far greater force and with a higher piercing effect.
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🙄
It was just another demonstration of his skill, because the shot was virtually impossible - yet, he managed to do it twice. No other archer in Helm's Deep did even attempt to hit the target. That wasn't pathetic, because you like it to be pathetic.
And who cares if Achilles is moving or has an ineffective shield?

Since I'm playing the rational part here, while you delive insane and fanboyish rambling and nothing else, I guess my judgement is more accurate than yours. [/B]

Yoda doesn't kill anybody high skilled in the five films he is in. Obi-Wan does. Therefore Obi-Wan > Yoda. Wow. This is brilliant logic. God doesn't smite anybody in "Bruce almighty" - he must suck, despite he's omnipotent and immortal. 🙄 [/B]

Quanchiland does not only lack the required brain cells to find Germany on a map, it also fails to own anything, as its existance is limited to the black hole between your ears. [/B]

Originally posted by Mindset
The Trojan War, the one represented in the Illiad, is fictional. The fictional writer, Homer, coined the term phalanx(stolen from wiki, eat it). A phalanx would look similar to a testudo when they were blocking arrows, this is common sense.

A couple years worth of ancient history classes is more useful.

Look up the differences between phalanx and testudo.

This is a simple example of me being right and you being wrong.

Now you're just being spiteful cos I pointed out your "couple hundred years too early" error. Wasn't my intent to scorn you. When the soldiers in the rear raise shields to protect from arrows coming from above(or flanks), said phalanx is now turned into a tetsudo, which is exactly what we saw. Achilles and men moving forward nicely protected from arrows coming forward and from above.

History Channel, bro. Books, bro. Wiki, bro.

Don't need to.

We're both technically right, as the phalanx turned into the tetsudo in that scene, but I'm clearly more right.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already admitted as such. Point is Achilles knew how to use his men and their shields into suppressing enemy fire as in arrows and spear tosses. It does indicate mega accuracy especially when he hit a moving target perfectly. Compare that to legolas' failed timing kill at Helm's Deep. Advantage:Achilles

Tee hee.

I should compare Legolas and Achilles aim? Great. Achilles is the guy, that hits with two out of two attempts, with throws entirely repeatable for regular humans with enough training. Legolas hits with 1000 out of 1000 shots, with three of them not being lethal hits - among those, countless of shots completely impossible for a human archer, no matter how well trained.

If you weren't just counting hits, you would probably realize, that Legolas is by far more impressive in combat than Achilles, which probably spawns from the fact that he had 2000 years to train this stuff.

But he has been blocked and failed a timing kill which resulted in many lives lost. Hilarity ensues at your exaggeration.

Hilarity ensues at your ignorance. I may, once more, destroy your pity excuse for a rational thought with visual evidence.

YouTube video

At 0:53, you can see the Uruk Hai with the torch running through a rather small alley of his comrades, who are waving their hands above their heads - apparently to cheer for him. At 0:58, we see the scenary from the perspective of Aragorn, which likewise shows some nice amount of Uruk Hai between the wall and the guy with the torch, with some of them carrying lances, that would serve as additional obstacles for an archer, firing the torch-bearer while standing on the wall.

The video further reveals, how close the torch is to the wall before Aragorn even gives the command to Legolas. Yet, the elf still manages to put two arrows into the beast. Which was a futile task anyway, provided that each and every Uruk Hai standing just around that scene could have carried the torch for the last few meters.

Lastly, have a look at what Legolas does from 3:04 on. This alone trumps anything we've ever seen from Achilles. Oh, yes. It's just "fodder". It's still "fodder" with shields and armor superior to that of Achilles and Legolas does manages to get 7 kills in 6 seconds.

Not enough to not fire an arrow at his body so no his accuracy was fine he was just blocked by someone who needed an entire team's backing to take out a cave troll.

Since he does hit the target twice, with the Uruk visible struggeling to stay on his feet, I wonder what he should have done. Aim for the heart or put an arrow through the eye in the split seconds he had to kill the target at all? To even suggest something like that is ridiculous.

And yeah. Gandalf. Provided that the guy does manage to slaughter an enemy much more powerful than the troll (read: Balrog) and - as you've been so kindly to point out multiple times - was capable of defeating the three best combatants of that "team" on his own within seconds using his magic, one has to assume that Gandalf didn't all he could in that particular scene. In fact, his reluctancy to actualy use his magic is one of his character traits.

He had the magical power to resist but we've seen him stand there before. The Witch King broke his staff so no it isn't proof he knows he can best his opponent only if he can do so.
Point proven.

Tee hee.

Excuse me. Is there an argument hidden somewhere in this incoherent babble? Gandalf knew exactly, how powerful Saruman was, because he knew the guy for more than 2000 years. He didn't know the Witch King and probably didn't assume, that the Lord of the Nazghul would be capable of breaking his staff. Yet, we've seen that Gandalf was capable of driving of the Nazghul rather easily. So apparently, he wasn't willing to replicate what he has done before right there, rather than him being inable to do so.

Shield block....shield block. Closes the distance jump strike dead elf. He didn't cut it open my german friend he grazed it. If that's the best you can do you've lost. Achilles easily killed him and wasn't even cut in battle.

Since I've already demonstrated, that Legolas is quite capable to simple shoot through the shield of Achilles, with Achilles having zero time to even react to the arrow fired, your hero will end up wounded or dead, once Legolas fires his first shot.

We already see him react to stuff happening behind his back with his shield block. He does have superhuman senses just like he has superhuman strength. Watch the movie already I tire of your ignorance.

What I saw was him being lucky. Is their any real demonstration of superhuman senses? No. Is there any mentioning of superhuman senses? No. Was it the clear goal of the movie makers to leave the entire "supernatural" stuff out of the story? Yes. So why would I assume, that they give him superhuman senses?

And I've already proven that - at no time - Achilles does exhibit superhuman strength. Which wouldn't help him anyway, because in the same instance Legolas fires, he dies.

Against an unskilled opponent unlike Achilles. Nah, Achilles blocks his arrows as seen in his movie. Legoals failed before with someone running in a straight line. Pathetic.

What exactly does skill have to do with armor, you pathetic excuse for an intelligent lifeform? Achilles shield was either bronze or wood, his armor leather. Legolas constantly puts arrows through iron (shields and armor alike), from much father distances, than you gave the opponents in your starting post. Iron > bronze / wood at any given day. Conclusion: Achilles armor and shield won't stop Legolas arrows.

And before you repeat your stupid "But they did block arrows in Troy". Yes. They did. Also bronze arrows, shot with far less speed, precision and force than the ones Legolas would use at Achilles.

Your whining and ballyhooing has been noted, boy. Wrong as we've seen Legolas up against Gandalf and he looked pathetic.

Tee hee.

Red Herring. I accept your concession.

He needs to use magic before the attack hits.

Achilles would also need magic in order to prevent his death. Unfortunately, he doesn't have access to magic, so he dies. Awww...

Achilles succeeded. He's a glory hound. It will be glorious to kill the bastard jedi as well. Achilles killed Hector and left. So yes it was not only smart but effective. I guess ineffective is what you german boys think is smart.

It was sheer luck that the Troyans decided not to simple run over him with their entire army or snipe him down from the wall. Because of honor. With a ruthless general in charge of the city, Achilles would have ended up death in front of the gate. Smart move? Hardly. Especially, when the movie shows that he was just doing it because of his wrath.

Achilles was by far the greatest warrior in his entire movie while Legolas is just some elf bum who wants to make out with Gimli. Two minor characters in the fellowship. Pathetic.

The only thing "pathetic" here, is your constant attempt, to talk down characters dependant on the importance they had in their respective storylines. By your logic, Sam from LotR slaughters the entire League of Shadows from "Batman Begins", because they are "fodder", and he is one of the main characters.

Achilles superior strength and superior shield hasa little something to do with it. You're also looking t just a few feats and ignoring the average. Just like you.

Oh. Achilles strength does make his shield and armor harder? I don't think so. His "superior shield"? Superior to the iron shields wielded by the forces of Saruman / Mordor? Really? You maybe want to do some research on weapons utilized in Ancient Greece.

It was pathetic since he failed. You claim he can hit the zit on someone's butthole but someone running right at him screaming like a wild banshee with a giant sparkler in hand couldn't get the job done because he's a failure when the game is on the line.

Straw man argument spotted. Seriously: First, you should follow my words, rather than trying to missinterprete them. Secondly, it would be nice if you'd take your own setup into consideration. We're talking about Legolas firing at Achilles from a rather short distance, with the Greek hero attempting to cover that distance as fast as possible. How, pray tell, would Legolas miss? You know that he wouldn't, and acknowledge it, by mentioning Achilles having to block with his shield. This turns your "argument" into a farce already. Thirdly, you should stop the ridiculous attempt to talk down characters.

The movies make it clear through dialogue that Yoda>>Obi. Dooku also demolishes Obi twice and he doesn't beat Yoda.

Agreeing with my argument, that your logic is ridiculous, is a nice thing. Now, you just have to implement that new insight and admit your argued yourself into a dead end.

Take what dignity you have left and flee the scene. I own you, boy.

Why would I flee the scene? Is there a secret party to celebrate my triumph over Quanchi? No? Doesn't matter, as this event isn't of any particulary interest for me, where it was certainly noteable for you, that I used some minutes of my spare time to shoot down anything you've said in this thread. 🙄

LOL, why is this thread still going on? The vast majority of posters decided pages ago that Legolas wins.