Originally posted by janus77
Surfer stomps. illusions and intangibility would nullify her 'frontal' assaults, astral plane battle would nullify any and all weaponry, omni-directional battlefield obliterating blast would ... destroy her.
Diana can see through illusions with her lasso, and can cut and capture intangible foes and astral beings with her lasso too, actually, Surfer shouldn't go astral at the risk of losing most of his powers to Diana.
Originally posted by nwg202
Yup. i agree the moment it goes hand to hand the surfer is dead. I agree that usually just stands around and blast away with his board. That's why i cant stand the character, everytime he loses it looks so stupid. They should just depower him. his highs and lows are all over the place.flash and the surfer are characters i cant stand. written to their full potential they should not lose. But they lose and it looks stupid. Why does crime even happen on dc earth if your a billion times faster then the speed of light....flash running alongside batman just irritates me. sorry for the rant. lol
I can't imagine why doom can beat the surfer if the surfer moves faster than light. but hes doom and he has magic and hes smart so surfer loses..same with the flash and his villains. there is no way you should hit the flash.
No problem, I understand your point and it's something that keeps comming in any Flash/Surfer debate 😄
Originally posted by Bentley
Diana can see through illusions with her lasso, and can cut and capture intangible foes and astral beings with her lasso too, actually, Surfer shouldn't go astral at the risk of losing most of his powers to Diana.
Also, illusions aren't magical, they're some sort of physical matter manipulation, like the giant Galactus he once projected... they can be from multiple directions at the same time, one lasso isn't an omni-directional defence.
Surfer can also easily take her punches and attacks, he's tanked worse - far far more powerful attacks - from sky fathers and above (T&A and Galactus being the absolute pinnacle, but rogue watchers, UniLord, Lunatik, Hulk etc all being clearly above WW's damage output).
Again, Surfer's to lose. If he's fighting with even 80% focus, he should spite her 100/100.
Originally posted by janus77
Astral plane is a whole other thing to "astral projection", it's a dimension all to itself. Surfer's taken down foes there a few times. He doesn't lose any of his powers there, iirc. Got any evidence of any instances of his power loss on the Astral Plane?Also, illusions aren't magical, they're some sort of physical matter manipulation, like the giant Galactus he once projected... they can be from multiple directions at the same time, one lasso isn't an omni-directional defence.
Surfer can also easily take her punches and attacks, he's tanked worse - far far more powerful attacks - from sky fathers and above (T&A and Galactus being the absolute pinnacle, but rogue watchers, UniLord, Lunatik, Hulk etc all being clearly above WW's damage output).
Again, Surfer's to lose. If he's fighting with even 80% focus, he should spite her 100/100.
Surfer doesn't lose powers per se in the astral plane, he just stops having some other abilities -such as creating black holes, matter manipulation-, that in my opinion are better than going into the astral plane.
The lasso and the afore mentioned eye of Pallas can actually see through illusions of any kind, illusions is not the way to go against Diana.
If Diana really meant to fight Surfer, then her tiara would cut right through him, it has cut Superman before -and Surfer recently got cut by a skrull-. I agree that he can hang with her punches though, even if she is still more skilled and probably stronger.
I do think and agree that Surfer's powerset is overall more impressive that Diana's.
^
Cutting Surfer doesn't really matter since he healed Skrull Dre's cuts pretty easily, and he's healed from cuts much worse in the past. Also just 'cause the Skrull mimicking Dr.Dre's wraith magic was able to cut Surfer doesn't necessarily mean Diana's tiara can. That skrull was able to cut through space and time itself... They're not really comparable.
Also Surfer would hold his own fine h2h. Not sure why everyone thinks he sucks in that department he's actually pretty decent. He physically beat down BRB, He physically manhandled Hulk and his Warbound, and he physically beat down Skaar amped by the oldpower who was going to destroy planet they were on. Surfer's actually really decent hand to hand.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Did Diana lose that "eye of pallas" thing or whatever it was called?
Odyssey Diana? I don't think so, she saw some things no-one else was able to perceive, and that's even before she re-merged with her original self and got her full powers back.
Reboot Diana? Probably never had it, or maybe she does. I'm assuming this is classic since we don't know much about her at all.
Originally posted by vince_slice
^
Cutting Surfer doesn't really matter since he healed Skrull Dre's cuts pretty easily, and he's healed from cuts much worse in the past. Also just 'cause the Skrull mimicking Dr.Dre's wraith magic was able to cut Surfer doesn't necessarily mean Diana's tiara can. That skrull was able to cut through space and time itself... They're not really comparable.Also Surfer would hold his own fine h2h. Not sure why everyone thinks he sucks in that department he's actually pretty decent. He physically beat down BRB, He physically manhandled Hulk and his Warbound, and he physically beat down Skaar amped by the oldpower who was going to destroy planet they were on. Surfer's actually really decent hand to hand.
The tiara cut through Superman and Diana is quite skilled, those are the most relevant reasons to claim she's a danger to him in close quarters.
Originally posted by BentleyI don't think being cut poses much of a problem to surfer. He's been sliced to pieces and been perfectly fine plus he can phase. Surfers dangerous close quarters too. Look what happen to Raveonous. Surfer destroyed the planet and left him bloody and defeated. Close quarters surfer ain't a slouch. People always rag on him for that.
The tiara cut through Superman and Diana is quite skilled, those are the most relevant reasons to claim she's a danger to him in close quarters.
Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman 6/10.
You are on some kind of drugs...
Surfer hands down. its lauaghable how the same people who claim superman prime will win against hulk via using his speed to overwhelm hulk claim that surfer will go in halfassed and fight wonder woman h2h forgetting his other powers ( even though he is by no means outmatched their).
Easy win for surfer is to stay at range, use his board and omnidirectional blasts for offence, and forcefieldds for defence. He wins comfortably
Originally posted by vince_slice
I don't think being cut poses much of a problem to surfer. He's been sliced to pieces and been perfectly fine plus he can phase. Surfers dangerous close quarters too. Look what happen to Raveonous. Surfer destroyed the planet and left him bloody and defeated. Close quarters surfer ain't a slouch. People always rag on him for that.
Again, I'm just leaning on Diana at close quarters because her high skills and tiara. Ravenous is not a physical beats, he has been bested by Zenith and Ronan, who aren't Superman level.
Originally posted by BentleyI used the ravenous example and the other examples to demostrate that close quarter combat isn't and shoud'nt be considered surfer's kryptonite. I think he can hold his own pretty well in that regard against Diana.
Again, I'm just leaning on Diana at close quarters because her high skills and tiara. Ravenous is not a physical beats, he has been bested by Zenith and Ronan, who aren't Superman level.
If fights smart and has his annilation mindset on I think he can take the comfortable majority.
Not sure how Surfer keeping at range and shooting blasts at Wonder Woman makes this an easy win for him... 😕
At absolute best case for Norrin, he wins 7/10. He's overall more powerful, obviously, but he'll play hell getting through Diana's defenses. Up close and personal, Norrin doesn't get steamrolled (don't see how you can say that upon looking at his feats), but he is outclassed in terms of skill and whatnot. Illusions and mental combat would fail hard against Classic Diana.
^ him keeping it at range means he is out of range of her attacks. Yes she can defend alot of attacks from him but she isn't blocking everything and quite frankly wont be getting off to much of an offense when you add the distance between them and forcefields he posesses. Also he can temporarily remove the lasso from her possession by encasing it in a forcefield or hard coating like his skin ( he could also encase her in it as well thereby incapacitating her) ala his fight against carnage, galactus',spiderman and daredevil. With the lasso temporarily out of play, her best and most dangerous method of attack is gone, which will mean she is constantly on the defence and will eventually be overwhelmed.
Realistically speaking, she will have hell getting through his defences more than anything, and will be constantly on the defensive herself. Thats not a recipe for victory
Originally posted by Naija boy
^ him keeping it at range means he is out of range of her attacks. Yes she can defend alot of attacks from him but she isn't blocking everything and quite frankly wont be getting off to much of an offense when you add the distance between them and forcefields he posesses. Also he can temporarily remove the lasso from her possession by encasing it in a forcefield or hard coating like his skin ( he could also encase her in it as well thereby incapacitating her) ala his fight against carnage, galactus',spiderman and daredevil. With the lasso temporarily out of play, her best and most dangerous method of attack is gone, which will mean she is constantly on the defence and will eventually be overwhelmed.
I agree Surfer can feasibly do most of which you posted and it's part of the reason why he gets the majority I posted.
Anything more than that is pretty unfair to Diana given her own feats/abilities and people claiming it's spite or that Surfer wins 10/10 are wrong.
i think the tiara could cut through his shields to be honest, as well as his skin. her ability to sense the battlefield would make an effective board attack unlikely, imo. disarming her of the lasso also wouldn't be all that easy imo. i also think she could handle most of his ranged attacks. all that said, he is simply more powerful, and i don't see him doing all that poorly in close--at all. in close he could certainly hang with her and if she is engaged, THEN he could also use his energy powers while she's too busy to defend. getting in close is his best bet, imo and it's why i'd say he wins a solid majority. she can take a couple though, and he works for all the wins.