Can a lightsaber cut through and destroy Sauron's ring ?

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is a question that cannot be answered by movies only. If you go by the movies, "Only" Mount Doom can destroy it. You don't want it to be that way, right? 😄

Hell no: you do it. You're the one making the claim that the problem was heat, only heat was needed, and only Mount Doom had the heat to accomplish it. Your claim, you back it up. That's fairly simple.

Actually if we go by the movies we have Gandalf claiming only Mount Doom can destroy it. Since Gandalf is not omniscient he could be and likely was wrong about this. Or it could be that the Council of Elrond simlpy did not have anything powerful or hot enough to destroy it. Which they did not.

I don't need to point out that there was no other volcano, because that would be asking me to prove a negative. However, there are none on any of the maps of middle earth. So there.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually if we go by the movies we have Gandalf [b]claiming only Mount Doom can destroy it. Since Gandalf is not omniscient he could be and likely was wrong about this. Or it could be that the Council of Elrond simlpy did not have anything powerful or hot enough to destroy it. Which they did not.[/B]

lol!

So you're going to use the method of "he's not God, so he can't know for sure" argument? In that case, the Mod told us how it is and so it is. He's God in here, so there's your answer.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't need to point out that there was no other volcano, because that would be asking me to prove a negative. However, there are none on any of the maps of middle earth. So there.

No, you need to point out that there IS another volcano because you're the one claiming that it was the heat from the volcano and that any volcano would have done (or heat), not just Mount Doom. Or did you forget the part where you asked about Mount Doom being "magical?

I'm not asking you to prove that no other volcanos exist: I'm asking you to prove that other volcanos exist.

If you do so, then you not only prove yourself wrong, you prove me right. If you find that no other volcanoes exist then you could still be right.

Originally posted by dadudemon
lol!

So you're going to use the method of "he's not God, so he can't know for sure" argument? In that case, the Mod told us how it is and so it is. He's God in here, so there's your answer.

Haha, no. Impediment gave his opinion on the thread. I must have missed the part where Mods opinions are irrefutable law on forum fights.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, you need to point out that there IS another volcano because you're the one claiming that it was the heat from the volcano and that any volcano would have done (or heat), not just Mount Doom. Or did you forget the part where you asked about Mount Doom being "magical?

I don't know why I would try to prove that there are other volcano's given that I pretty heavily implied I didn't think there were other ones. And you have it backwards. If I prove that theres no other volcanos except Mount Doom then that proves that Saron didn't forge it in there because it was a 'magical volcano' (again, lol), but because it was a volcano period.

Now prove Mount Doom was magical.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm not asking you to prove that no other volcanos exist: I'm asking you to prove that other volcanos exist.

No you're not. 😐

'And, do you honestly think that there was only one volcano on all of middle earth?'

Originally posted by dadudemon
If you do so, then you not only prove yourself wrong, you prove me right. If you find that no other volcanoes exist then you could still be right.

Are you drunk or just incredibly stupid?

Why would I prove myself wrong?

Movie canon proves everything.

Elrond specifically stated that "only in the fires of Mt. Doom can the ring be unmade."

/thread.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Volcano

Also, for proof that Mount Doom was not a natural volcano, you may have missed the part where, when the One Ring was finally destroyed, all of Mordor, including Mount Doom, went BSoD.

Originally posted by Impediment
Movie canon proves everything.

Elrond specifically stated that "only in the fires of Mt. Doom can the ring be unmade."

/thread.

Elrond also thought it was a good idea sending Boromir along. estahuh

Boromir was a lunatic in denial.

Originally posted by Impediment
Movie canon proves everything.

Elrond specifically stated that "only in the fires of Mt. Doom can the ring be unmade."

/thread.

Therefore everything that happened after that is non-canon, as it would be a contradiction of what he said, right?

Boromir's claims were bravado. They walked into Mordor.

Elrond is as old as time. His logic seems much, much more plausible.

I see no reason to argue.

/thread.

His logic doesn't take into account lightsabers. They don't have anything that hot so he can't know it wouldn't work.

Lightsabers are not magic.

Elrond states irrefutable proof.

Magic volcano = ring death.

Originally posted by Impediment
Boromir's claims were bravado. They walked into Mordor.

Elrond is as old as time. His logic seems much, much more plausible.

I see no reason to argue.

/thread.

Besides, if you really want to go that route, Sarumon, who is basically an "angel" in a man's body, stated that no one could defeat him and Sauron, and that Frodo was doomed to fail.

So by your logic. Saurumon's statements are "irrefutable proof", and since he's older and more powerful than Elrond, his statements hold the most weight.

Therefore The Two Towers and Return of the King are non-canon. Frodo never destroyed the ring because, by Saurumon's words, that would be an impossibility.

Or we can put the bullshit away and just all admit that the words of fallible characters are just that, fallible, and have no place in a debate. Word?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Haha, no. Impediment gave his opinion on the thread. I must have missed the part where Mods opinions are irrefutable law on forum fights.

1. This isn't a fight.
2. He cited direct quotes from the movies as evidence.
3. As you can see further down in the thread, it is not really debatable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know why I would try to prove that there are other volcano's given that I pretty heavily implied I didn't think there were other ones.

I know this.

However, you COULD prove you point by also proving that there is only one Volcano in all of middle earth. 🙂

Originally posted by Nephthys
And you have it backwards. If I prove that theres no other volcanos except Mount Doom

Then my point would still be right, no matter what you came up with...which you know already.

However, it would lead your argument a bit more credibility: the reason they had to use that Volcano was because it was the ONLY volcano.

Originally posted by Nephthys
then that proves that Saron didn't forge it in there because it was a 'magical volcano' (again, lol), but because it was a volcano period.

Uhhh...no. That's absurdly non-sequitur of you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Now prove Mount Doom was magical.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No you're not. 😐

I didn't even bother reading what you said this to because no matter what it is, it contradicts me and everything I stated is correct (minus the portions where I'm clearly speculating...)

Originally posted by Nephthys
'And, do you honestly think that there was only one volcano on all of middle earth?'

I see what you're saying, now.

You missed the point entirely...and that's just hilarious because I clearly explained my direction in the post you are responding to.

You forgot about this part:

"you need to point out that there IS another volcano because you're the one claiming that it was the heat from the volcano and that any volcano would have done (or heat), not just Mount Doom. Or did you forget the part where you asked about Mount Doom being "magical?"

"If you do so, then you not only prove yourself wrong, you prove me right. If you find that no other volcanoes exist then you could still be right."

Originally posted by Nephthys
Are you drunk or just incredibly stupid?

Why would I prove myself wrong?

You're obviously both because I was quite clear:

"you need to point out that there IS another volcano because you're the one claiming that it was the heat from the volcano and that any volcano would have done (or heat), not just Mount Doom. Or did you forget the part where you asked about Mount Doom being "magical?"

"If you do so, then you not only prove yourself wrong, you prove me right. If you find that no other volcanoes exist then you could still be right."

You're the one claiming that it was just the heat needed (obviously wrong and incontestable by movie canon) so you just need to prove that Mount Doom was the only volcano so you can prove your point.

I also like how you twisted my words into "I can't prove a negative...rawr!" lol No, you're not proving a negative, you're proving that Mount Doom was unique in middle earth.

Back on topic, you're just plain wrong because I KNOW that there are other Volcanoes in the LotR universe. You don't want to try and prove your point about just needing a volcano for heat because you'd end up proving yourself horribly wrong on all accounts. So why would a person want to prove himself wrong?

Simple: Read #1 for why we even went down this path (hint, it applies to you)

http://www.cracked.com/article_19468_5-logical-fallacies-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think_p2.html

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Normal fires couldn't even make the Ring of Power hot.

A lightsaber won't be able to slice the One Ring in half.

What exactly is a "quan" and what constitutes a quan being "far and benevolent" since you are completely opposite of that huhu?

Originally posted by Impediment
Lightsabers are not magic.

Elrond states irrefutable proof.

Magic volcano = ring death.

The Star Wars movies had several inconsistencies as to what the light saber could cut through.

When Luke fought Vader in Empire (on Bespin, before he lost his hand), the light sabers would hit metal railings & just spark up.

In Jedi, the light sabers clearly cut through metal railings.

Those rails were magic protected.

Originally posted by Impediment
Movie canon proves everything.

Elrond specifically stated that "only in the fires of Mt. Doom can the ring be unmade."

/thread.

I disagree with this.

Elrond said what he thought to be true.

It may well have been virtually indestructible in his universe, but could possibly be destroyed by other means:

- A power greater than Sauron, he didn't know about.

- Physical powers he did not know about, e.g The heat of the sun, a Black Hole.

- In the same vein Greater physical powers outside of LOTRU Elrond had not even contemplated, e.g PC Superman.

- Greater magical powers outside the LOTR Universe.

In conclusion, what a character claims in a film, may not be the be all and end all in MVF.

That said, I do believe that the level of magic that protects the ring would've been very high, enough to protect it from the heat of a light saber.

The thing about magic is sometimes people assume it transcends everything. When you consider the whole movie multiverse, then that belief becomes quite dubious. Magic has its limits too IMO, even against physical forces great enough. The Juggernaut is a good example. He is powered by magic and is likely believed to be "unstoppable", but we know he has been stopped, by magical powers greater than he, or physical forces that surpass the limits of his magic. The only thing I would say is supreme with certainty would be an omniscient, omnipotent being - i.e God.