Originally posted by dadudemon
derpy derpy doooo! peaches
Indeed. That is the metaphorical representation of your post last night. Well done, nice awareness. 👆
Originally posted by dadudemon
And yet, this doesn't contradict what I said.
Who said I was trying to contradict you? In fact, the term 'and yet' indicates agreement.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Which it has not been refuted in any legitimate way. Do better than "nuh uhhh".
Do you expect me to reply to your one sentence 'nuh uhhh' with anything but a similar (but ultimately far superior and infinately wittier) 'nuh uhhh'?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Not it isn't: we have a bunch of haters being idiots which is why there are posts. It is not debateable but only to those who are being willfully ignorant. derpy derpy dooo!
A bunch of haters? In what way do you think I 'hate' LotR, especialy since the third movie is my 18th favourite movie of all time? And it is very debateable. The concept of whether fallible characters can be taken at their word on certain matters is one which is worth much debate.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I didn't. Suck it.
Oh my, what childlike purity in your words. You are an inspiration. 😉
Originally posted by dadudemon
You are creating a false delima and I've explained how. Try harder, please.
How is this a false dilemma? Either there a other volcano's or not. Perhaps next time you should look up what a false dilemma actual is before posting. 😉
Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes I would and you do because you've proven so in pasts post at me.
You'll need to cite when I've done this in my pasts posts at to you.
😉
Originally posted by dadudemon
Please troll harder:When I am representing your argument, you cannot try and pass it off as my argument.
I'm not trying to pass anything of as anything other than what was intended at the time I wrote it, my intention being, if you are in need of clarification, to say that 'sauron didn't forge it there because it was a magical volcano, but because it was a volcano period the only volcano.'
That was the original intent. If my words have caused your feeble plebeian brain some degree of confusion then I offer my sincerest apologies. That what not my intent.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Please go back and read the entire section you have taken out of context:You said:
"I don't know why I would try to prove that there are other volcano's given that I pretty heavily implied I didn't think there were other ones."
To which I said:
"Then my point would still be right, no matter what you came up with...which you know already.
However, it would lead your argument a bit more credibility: the reason they had to use that Volcano was because it was the ONLY volcano."
To make it clearer for you....
You want to why you should prove that there are other volcanoes or just the one volcano.
Your argument could be supported in the following way IF you did so because..."the reason they had to use that Volcano was because it was the ONLY volcano."
That position is not true, which I already knew from the onset. However, you asked "why" and I told you why.
So, please, leave the trolling to the trolls and think a bit more before you post someone's words.
Too long, didn't read.
I'm still waiting for you to prove there are other volcano's.
Originally posted by dadudemon
They are proof and it was confirmed.
No they are not, they are opinion.
How could either know that the Ring could stand up to a lightsaber when they've never seen one? How could they possibly know that it could not be destroyed by anything except Mount Doom when the only things they've tried has been a small Hobbits fire and a ****ing axe?
Originally posted by dadudemon
If you want to hold the position that something hot enough, when Gandalf clearly explained that not even the most powerful dragon's breath could undo the ring (but only Mount Doom), go ahead: it's a baseless position to contradict the canon books.
Not canon here.
The MVF Golden Rule:
What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!
Originally posted by dadudemon
It's also baselesss to say, "Derpy do! Lite Saberz totally reckers teh ring! dur" since that contradicts actual canon in both the movies and the books. Heat is not sufficient: only the fires of Mount Doom are...because Mount Doom is magical and ALSO magically tied to Sauron.
No, it only contradicts what Gandalf and Elrond said.
And yu have yet to prove a single facet of the above. Proof heat is not sufficient? Proof Mount Doom is magical? Proof Mount Doom is tied to Sauron. All you've offered so far is things the the novels and a freaking wiki page. Up your game DDM, I know you can do better than this. sneer
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, it's the truth. At that point in the thread, there was no legitimate way to contradict me EXCEPT for the very explicit portions that I had speculated.
Blah Blah. You bleat like a castrated goat.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Look, another "you're an idiot and drunk" joke. It wasn't funny the first time.
And here I thought jokes got funnier over time. 🙄
Originally posted by dadudemon
That much is obvious.
Internets is serius buzines.
Originally posted by dadudemon
What I'm getting is:I will throw you one and only one bone:
thangorodrim.
Whats that, something that doesn't appear in the movie? Oh well.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That's up to you, not me.We already have "proof" that only the fires of Mount Doom can undo the one ring because that's where Sauron forged it (aka, magical volcano that is magically tied to the ring).
You have absolutely nothing. Don't expect another reply unless you up your game. You wont get another chance.
Originally posted by dadudemon
It will not: you've been proven wrong, already, without the need of invoking other volcanoes, which the burden is on YOU to do, not me.
I have not been proven wrong. You have not proven anything as of yet. This is embarrasing.
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, you'd still be wrong. I just said that your position my be more credible if there were other volcanos: it is still wrong, however.
You contradict yourself again. How quaint.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Because that map covers the entirety of the entire Earth, right? dur
The entirity that was shown in the movies, yes. 😉
Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong: by proving that Mount Doom is unique, you have proven the position of 'no other volcanoes exist and Mount Doom HAD to be used". Proving uniqueness is not proving "nothing."
Yes it is. You can only prove something is unique by proving that no dublicates of it exist. Therefore you are asking me to prove a negatoive. Spare me your fumbling attempts to grasp basic logic and simply conceed.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That burden was on you because YOU'RE the one that claimed "any ol' Volcano could have worked, dewd!" O really? Prove that Mount Doom was the ONLY Volcano in Middle-Earth. 🙂
That you ask me to present proof while presenting none yourself is most amusing. At this rate I fear you'll run out of courage juice.
Originally posted by dadudemon
In order to hold that position, you would have to have proven that it was the only Volcano around. It obviously was not. Why go through the ultra-hard journey through Mordor if they could have just taken a much easier path to another Volcano?
Present another volcano.
Originally posted by dadudemon
See previous arguments for why you fail.The position was never to prove that no volcanoes exist. It was to prove that Mount Doom was the only one.
See previous arguments for why you fail.
The position was never to prove that no volcanoes exist. It was to prove that Mount Doom was the only one.
no u
Originally posted by dadudemon
You're wrong, suck it. 🙂
Your winner!
Originally posted by dadudemon
In my case, it is. In your case, it is not.
Laughable.
Originally posted by dadudemon
You mean what you thought were "retarded-ass arguments" but were actually inexorable facts that you did not realize you could not contend with...but did so in blind futility.
Spare me your posturing, you weary me.
I can only hope your reply can do better, or else you have the good sense not to reply.
My understanding is 'shoosh.'
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Neph, Thangrodrim in the Silmarillion was basically a series of volcanoes protecting Morgoth's lair.Of course, they were destroyed by the time of 2nd Age, but regardless, Mount Doom isn't the only volcano in the world.
Movies only.
I'm rules lawyering this.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Whats that, something that doesn't appear in the movie? Oh well.
lulz
Originally posted by Nephthys
You have absolutely nothing. Don't expect another reply unless you up your game. You wont get another chance.
No, it is you that has nothing.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I have not been proven wrong. You have not proven [b]anything as of yet. This is embarrasing..[/B]
You have been.
In both the context of the movie and in the books: you just can't deal with it.
You are hiding behind fallacies, now: ZOMG! Liek u totally! Immortal characters and wizards are not infallible!
You'll have to do better.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You contradict yourself [b]again. How quaint.[/B]
I didn't: go back and read those words. I actually said "more credible" but I'd still be right. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?
Originally posted by Nephthys
The entirity that was shown in the movies, yes. 😉
This is not about just the movies, actually.
This was never just about the movies and that's quite clear.
You've back peddled and are not using the "movies only plez" to hide.
That still does not work: the movies are worse on your position than the books.
😆
And, no, we only saw part of one continent in the movies.
Nice try?
Nah. It wasn't even that. 🙂
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes it is. You can only prove something is unique by proving that no dublicates of it exist. Therefore you are asking me to prove a negatoive. Spare me your fumbling attempts to grasp basic logic and simply conceed.
No, I'm asking you to prove a positve: prove that only one exists.
You can manipulate my words all you want, but it's not going to fly.
Prove that there is only one. That is your posiition, not mine. You claim that any volcano would do. That's wrong.
But I was kind and asked you to prove that Mount Doom was unique as far as volcanoes are concerned.
That was also a wrong position to hold because I ALREADY KNEW that other volcanoes existed in Middle-Earth (ergo, why I prefaced my point about "I'd still be right"😉.
On top of that, this is not the same thing as finding a needle in a haystack.
It's not the same thing as proving a negative, even a little. Prove that there is only one giant ****ing mountian that spews hot fire and smoke is not the same thing as "liek, ZOMG! you want me to prove a negative! WEEEEE! It's impossible! RAAAWWR!"
The position that you can pretend it's like proving a negative is not tenible, even slightly.
I never asked you to prove, "lol. Dude..prove that something I have never seen, heard, tasted, or touched, does not exist...but I hold as existing."
But, it was hilarious that you attempted to invoke the "can't prove a negative....lalalalalaalalalal".
Okay, great. Still prove that Mount Doom was unique (you can't, didn't, and are wrong).
But movies only, man! MOVIES ONLY! RAAAAWWWWR!
Kay.
So here's how your position boils down: no other volcanoes exist because I know everything about the movie version of Middle-Earth. They can destroy it in any volcano because heat alone is required. Therefore, lightsabers cut the One Ring because they are thousands of degrees.
My position is: Other volcanoes exist within the mythos (obvious point is obvious...because it's Earth). Sauron is magically tied to a magical volcano. It can only be destroyed there because Sauron created it with the magic of the volcano and his own...and poured his soul into it.
But you presume omniscience for a universe that is not fully created. This is the counter argument to the atheist position that no God exists, by the way. In order for you to hold the position that no God exists, you must know every last bit of information that is in the multiverse and THEN some. It is impossible to do, so it is impossible to know that God does not exist.
How does that apply to the One Ring (because you're reading comprehension skills are so lacking, I have to explain metaphors to you): you implicitely claim omniscience by holding the position that only the heat of a volcan is required. That means you KNOW that no other volcanoes existed and that ANY volcano would have done but one does not exist to do so: they were left with only Mount Doom.
It just so happens that I have more information about that fictional universe that makes you wrong in holding such a position: other volcanoes (magical ones, even..the same as Mount Doom teehee) exist.
Thanks for playing, though.
You can dismiss whatever you like, but it is your position that is not tenable and baseless.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That you ask me to present proof while presenting none yourself is most amusing. At this rate I fear you'll run out of courage juice.Present another volcano.
You're right, I've been totally pwned. 😬
So, since you'll hide behind the "not in the movies" position, there's not point in discussing this with you further.
However, you make the faulty of mistake of "I know everything about the movie universe and no other volcanoes exist". That's your implicit argument and obviously cannot be sustained.
Originally posted by Nephthys
How is this a false [b]dilemma? Either there a other volcano's or not. Perhaps next time you should look up what a false dilemma actual is before posting. 😉[/B]
Perhaps you should learn how to simply understand.
Seriously.
Here's the false dilema:
"Only Mount Doom existed so only Mount Doom had enough heat to destroy the one ring."
False dilema because other volcanoes exist but are not present in the films. Else they have to go to just one Volcano and not others which would be far easier to do?
"But the fallacy can also arise simply by accidental omission of additional options"
Obviously, you accidentally eliminated information because you were not aware that other magical volcanoes DO exist in that fictional universe.
Your response: "Movies only, please."
Present your proof that shows us only one volcano exists. And don't pretend it's like proving a negative: a ginarmous fiery and smoke spewing mountain is hardly "invisible" especially when you consider that the Eagles could have easily aided the Elves and Gandalf in going to a different volcano.
But, I'm wrong: MVF Golden rule. RAAAAWR!
Originally posted by Nephthys
You'll need to cite when I've done this in my pasts postsatto you.😉
I was referring to the same thread we are in. Go back and read it. It's only 4 pages long. Enjoy. 🙂
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not trying to pass anything of as anything other than what was intended at the time I wrote it, my intention being, if you are in need of clarification, to say that 'sauron didn't forge it there because it was a magical volcano, but because it was avolcano period[b]the only volcano.'That was the original intent. If my words have caused your feeble plebeian brain some degree of confusion then I offer my sincerest apologies. That what not my intent. [/B]
And somehow you did not surmise that I already knew your position when I've been arguing against that position for ages, now?
Now what did you say about plebeian minds, again?
Originally posted by Nephthys
No they are not, they are [b]opinion.How could either know that the Ring could stand up to a lightsaber when they've never seen one? How could they possibly know that it could not be destroyed by anything except Mount Doom when the only things they've tried has been a small Hobbits fire and a ****ing axe?[/B]
How could you know that the One Ring could be destroyed by a lightsaber when it was said (and confirmed on screen) by an immortal angel that only the fires of Mount Doom could undo Sauron's power?
Originally posted by Nephthys
And yu have yet to prove a single facet of the above. Proof heat is not sufficient? Proof Mount Doom is magical? Proof Mount Doom is tied to Sauron. All you've offered so far is things the the novels and a freaking wiki page. Up your game DDM, I [b]know you can do better than this. sneer [/B]
Uhhh...to all that stuff...😬 I'll cover them as each were presented.
1. Fire did nothing. "No limits fallacy! RAWR!" The response is, "limits fallacy! RAWR!" It is a moot point. Credible characters said exactly how it could be destroyed. It was confirmed on screen. Facts.
2. It was already stated why Mount Doom was magical with ONLY context from the movies. Too bad: I'm not going to requote posts for you.
3. It was already done...same as above.
4. So you want me to lower my game, right? LOWER...not up it. I will not lower to your level. I've presented facts for you. You hide behind fallacies whle claim fallacies. You hide behind specific forum rules just to be right rather than admitting fault.
What happens to your arugments if I create this in the LotR forum...or the Star Wars EU forum?
hmm?
What will you hide behind, then?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Who said I would?
Obviously, that was to the last line of my post.
Who said you would not?
The correct reply is "touché".
Additionally, it is still not "over" in this thread. There's still the untenable position that you are claiming that no other Volcanoes exist in the context of the movies. But there's an entire planet in that universe and we only saw a portion of a continent in the movies. It's still a bad position to hold especially when it runs against the grain of "expert testimony" from the movies...which are also part of the MVF Golden Rule.
Can you deal? What it do?
Originally posted by dadudemon
But there's an entire planet in that universe and we only saw a portion of a continent in the movies.
What other continent other then Middle Earth is in Arda? Other then Numenor and the Undying Land, nothing is mentioned in even the novels as there being something else other then Middle Earth.
And besides that, in the novels, there are only a handful of other volcanoes present, all of which were in Bereliand, which was destroyed. The movies apparently have even less geography.
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
What other continent other then Middle Earth is in Arda? Other then Numenor and the Undying Land, nothing is mentioned in even the novels as there being something else other then Middle Earth.And besides that, in the novels, there are only a handful of other volcanoes present, all of which were in Bereliand, which was destroyed. The movies apparently have even less geography.
Actually, I was going to mention Beleriand as one of those places that is not under water...(in a different age)
When Arda was made round and Aman taken from Arda, new lands were made east and west of middle earth.
There's also the "Land of the Sun", "Dark Land", Rhun (may be part of Middle-Earth...we really don't know for sure), and "Harod".
Edit - AWESOME!
Found a map of the first age Arda for the first friggin time ever...
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/arda.html
"After the Downfall, the shape of Arda was changed, and it was made 'bent' (or 'round' as we should say in modern terms). Aman was taken out of the world, and could only be reached by the Elves, following the straight road that was granted to them. As Aman was taken away from Arda, new lands and continents were created. From the late Second Age onwards, the World began to take the shape that we know today."
Double edit - Here's another map I found...
http://demo.ort.org.il/clickit2/files/forums/615241783/341970872.jpg
