The What If version of Michael Korvac vs Thanos, Lord Mar-vell, and Void...

Originally posted by Bentley

He also said "the universe will pay for not letting my dream continue", he was already fixed in destroying the Universe when he realized it would oppose him until the end.

There's a little more to his reasons which I'll add with the scans.

Also, I read along this thread of claims that Korvac needed Death. 😂

While it's true, Death played a mysterious role in Korvac's adventure,
there's is no indication of any kind that supposes Korvac's power and the level he reached
were dependent on Death.

The story's a "What if" and from 1982 no less, so inconsistencies will occur,
but Korvac was ridiculously powerful in that issue, but not more powerful than the LT,
regardless of PIS, we know the LT never directly attacked Korvac,
but we do know the LT not only trapped Korvac in his universe
but the LT also completely detached his Universe from the Multiverse.

Korvac was defeating Multiversal power in that story,
or the "mighty of the Multiverse" as the issue literally states.

Why would Korvac need to use the UN to erase himself and the Universe he swore would pay from ever existence?

1. Good ol' "What if" horse shit is one excuse.

2. He couldn't erase himself? hm

3. ... uhh, "What If" horse shit?

Originally posted by Mr Master

The story's a "What if" and from 1982 no less, so inconsistencies will occur,
but Korvac was ridiculously powerful in that issue, but not more powerful than the LT,
regardless of PIS, we know the LT never directly attacked Korvac,
but we do know the LT not only trapped Korvac in his universe
but the LT also completely detached his Universe from the Multiverse.

[b]Korvac was defeating Multiversal power in that story,
or the "mighty of the Multiverse" as the issue literally states.[/B]

"Multiversal powers" confined to ONE alternate universe? 🙄

"Ridiculously powerful" yet couldn't deal with a space armada and needed to resort to threatening them with the UN? 😆

Originally posted by zopzop
Prior to Korvac sensing Eternity using his CA, where is it mentioned that Eternity is even AWARE of Korvac's presence and vise versa?

Are you kidding me? 😐

Read Avengers 177, or you know the Korvac Saga, which this What If follows incredibly closely, addressing the afore mentioned points.

Originally posted by Bentley
Are you kidding me? 😐

Read Avengers 177, or you know the Korvac Saga, which this What If follows incredibly closely, addressing the afore mentioned points.

IT'S AN ALTERNATE REALITY. Who knows how close it follows 616 reality. Korvac NEVER mentioned Eternity and Eternity NEVER acknowledged Korvac in that WHAT IF issue. Why bring 616 reality into this?

The Reality diverged from the events in Avengers #177

Originally posted by zopzop

IT'S AN ALTERNATE REALITY. Who knows how close it follows 616 reality.

So, it follows the historical events of 616 up to the point of divergence.

Reality-82432 (Korvac's Universe) is an exact replica of 616

Reality-82432 diverged (came into existence) from the events in Avengers #177 (Reality 616)

Originally posted by zopzop

Why bring 616 reality into this?

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Reality diverged from the events in Avengers #177

Actually it's a [b]diverged/alternate reality

So, it follows the historical events of 616 up to the point of divergence.

Reality-82432 (Korvac's Universe) is an exact replica of 616

Reality-82432 diverged (came into existence) from the events in Avengers #177 (Reality 616)

Because without 616, this Reality would never have diverged. [/B]

The fact that 616 Korvac was enraged when the Avengers blew his spot by engaging him and the mighty of the universe were now aware of his presence (this included Eternity no?),

yet in this reality Korvac doesn't even acknowledge Eternity and vise versa till the very end when Korvac uses his CA to gain complete understanding of the universe before firing off the UN. Hell, Eternity isn't even in the cosmic council gathered to deal with Korvac in that very issue! Please, just stop.

You misunderstand me, I'm not trying to sway your personal perspective,
I'm only ging you the facts.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Korvac's Universe is a diverged/alternate reality

So, it follows the historical events of 616 up to the point of divergence.

Reality-82432 (Korvac's Universe) is an exact replica of 616

Reality-82432 diverged (came into existence) from the events in Avengers #177 (Reality 616)

Because no offense but again, those are the facts.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You misunderstand me, I'm not trying to sway your personal perspective,
I'm only ging you the facts.

You don't have to accept that,
but you also can't dispute that with anything other than intransigence.

Because no offense but again, those are the facts.

No offense, but those are NOT the facts. Check the scan where 616 Korvac was enraged that the Avengers exposed him to the mighty of the universe by forcing his hand, this included Eternity (he's in the freaking scan). Yet the What If version of Korvac made NO mention of Eterntiy and Eternity took no notice of What if Korvac till the very end when Korvac used his CA and fired off the UN.

How could that be if the What if Universe followed 616 reality till the point of Korvac's suicide, since the assault by the Avengers and his coming out of hiding happened PRIOR to him committing suicide and he'd be spotted by Eternity? Obviously these two realities couldn't be the EXACT same till the point of Korvac's suicide.

Originally posted by zopzop

No offense, but those are NOT the facts.

Originally posted by zopzop

How could that be if the What if Universe followed 616 reality till the point of Korvac's suicide, since the assault by the Avengers and his coming out of hiding happened PRIOR to him committing suicide and he'd be spotted by Eternity?

Obviously these two realities couldn't be the EXACT same till the point of Korvac's suicide.

Bottomline:

Here's the Watcher at the beginning of the "What if" stating the facts.

What happened in 616:

How what happened in 616, perpetuated the divergence of Korvac's What if reality:

It's the exact same reality, (copy of 616) sharing the exact same history, till the point of divergence.

The artist even goes out of his way
to artistically depict panels occurring in 616 with the "What If" scenario identically.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, they are.

😐

Bottomline:

Here's the Watcher at the beginning of the "What if" stating the facts.

What happened in 616:

How what happened in 616, perpetuated the divergence of Korvac's What if reality:

It's the exact same reality, (copy of 616) sharing the exact same history, till the point of divergence.

The artist even goes out of his way
to artistically depict panels occurring in 616 with the "What If" scenario identically.

Then how the hell does that explain the fact that Korvac took great pains to hide himself from Eternity and other cosmics (an important point in the 616 Korvac storyline) and was enraged when the Avengers forced his hand and he was exposed. It shows Eternity right there ON PANEL as becoming aware of Korvac's presence. They fight and then Korvac commits suicide (before the 90s retcon). This is 616 reality.

If the What If world ONLY difference was the fact that Korvac did NOT kill himself, how do you explain Eternity's lack of interest in What If Korvac and Korvac's lack of interest in Eternity?

Korvac's coming out happened BEFORE his suicide, so that would be shared by BOTH realities, if according to you they were exactly the same at that point. This makes Eternity's lack of interest in What if Korvac all the more mysterious since he was aware of him and the danger he posed in 616 reality! He wasn't even at the cosmic council that met to deal with What If Korvac. 🙄

Answer:

It was 1982.

^^ 👆

Originally posted by zopzop
Then how the hell does that explain the fact that Korvac took great pains to hide himself from Eternity and other cosmics (an important point in the 616 Korvac storyline) and was enraged when the Avengers forced his hand and he was exposed. It shows Eternity right there ON PANEL as becoming aware of Korvac's presence. They fight and then Korvac commits suicide (before the 90s retcon). This is 616 reality.

If the What If world ONLY difference was the fact that Korvac did NOT kill himself, how do you explain Eternity's lack of interest in What If Korvac and Korvac's lack of interest in Eternity?

Korvac's coming out happened BEFORE his suicide, so that would be shared by BOTH realities, if according to you they were exactly the same at that point. This makes Eternity's lack of interest in What if Korvac all the more mysterious since he was aware of him and the danger he posed in 616 reality! He wasn't even at the cosmic council that met to deal with What If Korvac.

Goodness I don't think Gruenwald (writer of both stories)
needed to repeat in the "What If" every single detail to get the point across.

As far as Eternity not being there, his name was mentioned atleast 4 times in the "What If"
yet that aside, who cares, we KNOW Korvac was stomping cosmics,
and Lord Chaos/ Master Order and the Living Tribunal were there, and Death was part of the game.

So, it's logical for me to conclude that indeed Eternity was aware when the time came,
cause after all,
it's Eternity's balance & even existence getting raped here so I don't see how that would go unnoticed.

Anyway,
it was the mightiest Cosmics of the Multiverse in history (upto 1982) that came after Korvac:

Perhaps this is why even "Jesus" was unable to enter Korvac's Reality:

Bottom right. 😂

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ 👆

Who said or where is it said that Eternity did or didn't notice Eternity in the "What If or vise versa?"

Goodness I don't think Gruenwald (writer of both stories)
needed to repeat in the "What If" every single detail to get the point across.

As far as Eternity not being there, his name was mentioned atleast 4 times in the "What If"
yet that aside, who cares, we KNOW Korvac was stomping cosmics,
and Lord Chaos/ Master Order and the Living Tribunal were there, and Death was part of the game.

So, it's logical for me to conclude that indeed Eternity was aware when the time came,
cause after all,
it's Eternity's balance & even existence getting raped here so I don't see how that would go unnoticed.

Anyway,
it was the mightiest Cosmics of the Multiverse in history (upto 1982) that came after Korvac:

Perhaps this is why even "Jesus" was unaable to enter Korvac's Reality:

Bottom right. 😂

Then why wasn't Eternity there at the council that met to deal with Korvac? 616 Korvac SPECIFICALLY hid himself because he feared being discovered by the cosmics and this included Eternity! Whoops!

The Mighty of the Multiverse that were SEALED OFF in that universe by the Living Tribunal and then nullified by the UN? How does that make sense? What was going on in all the other alternate realities that make up the rest of the multiverse? 🙄

These were alternate reality versions of 616 beings. We have ZERO clue how they compare to their 616 counterparts in terms of power.

And why is that feat including Jesus so impressive? Sym and Madelyne Prior accomplished that in What If Xmen Lost Inferno. So he was assed out at least twice 😆

Originally posted by zopzop

Then why wasn't Eternity there at the council that met to deal with Korvac?
616 Korvac SPECIFICALLY hid himself because he feared being discovered by the cosmics
and this included Eternity!
Whoops!

Why don't you email Mark Gruenwald and ask him?

Or, we can just stick to an accam's razor point of view
and realize a "What If" will always have inconsistencies.

That aside, perhaps Mark didn't involve Eternity in the stompage
because Eternity was to be stomped anyway at the end, which was integral to the story.

Who knows,
what we do know for a FACT
is that Reality-82432 (Korvac's world) is a Universe that diverged from Avengers #177.

Because of this,
Reality-82432 is a copy of Reality-616 in every way up until the point of divergence.

This is a Marvel Comics fact:

Divergent Earth: (Divergent Universe) --

[from the official Marvel Universe Handbook Glossary of definitions 2008]

"Alternate Earth which was once parallel to Earth-616,
until a change altered how it's history unfolded."

🙂

Originally posted by zopzop

The Mighty of the Multiverse that were SEALED OFF in that universe by the Living Tribunal
and then nullified by the UN?

How does that make sense?

Originally posted by zopzop

What was going on in all the other alternate realities that make up the rest of the multiverse?

The same thing that was going on, that went on and goes on.

Once Korvac nullified himself,
all his actions were unmade, so everything went back to the way it was, except his Reality ofcourse
which he also erased from ever having been.

Originally posted by zopzop

These were alternate reality versions of 616 beings.
We have ZERO clue how they compare to their 616 counterparts in terms of power.

Therefore, it's an exact copy of 616 upto the point of divergence.

If you refuse to accept this fact, there's nothing else to debate about.

Now, as far as comparison go, everything in Korvac's realm was exactly the same as in 616.

At that time in 1982, there was absolutely NO difference whatsoever.
But sometime later till now,
the difference has become that the 616 abstracts represent the core of their totalities,
giving occurrences within 616
possibly a universal/multiversal/megaversal/or even omniversal significance.

Originally posted by zopzop

And why is that feat including Jesus so impressive? Sym and Madelyne Prior accomplished that in What If Xmen Lost Inferno. So he was assed out at least twice

That side, Sym and Madelyne's barrier was not there to prevent Cosmics,
as we saw Phoenix enter effortlessly.
It did prove affective against sorcerer level power like the human mystics that tried to penetrate.

On top of that, it only enveloped the planet,
while Korvac's blanketed his entire Universe.

Phoenix got booted from Korvac's reality
and even the combined power of Silver Surfer/Dr Strange and Phoenix
were unable to budge Korvac's barrier.

So I'll go with Korvac's barrier being infinitely more impressive.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And? ...

Why don't you email Mark Gruenwald and ask him?

Or, we can just stick to an accam's razor point of view
and realize a "What If" will always have inconsistencies.

That aside, perhaps Mark didn't involve Eternity in the stompage
because Eternity was to be stomped anyway at the end, which was integral to the story.

Who knows,
what we do know for a FACT
is that Reality-82432 (Korvac's world) is a Universe that diverged from Avengers #177.

Because of this,
Reality-82432 is a copy of Reality-616 in every way up until the point of divergence.

This is a Marvel Comics fact:

[B]Divergent Earth: (Divergent Universe) --

[from the official Marvel Universe Handbook Glossary of definitions 2008]

"Alternate Earth which was once parallel to Earth-616,
until a change altered how it's history unfolded."

🙂

Actually, before the LT sealed off that Reality,
the mighty of the Mutliverse fell and were all absorbed by Korvac.

😐

The same thing that was going on, that went on and goes on.

Once Korvac nullified himself,
all his actions were unmade, so everything went back to the way it was, except his Reality ofcourse
which he also erased from ever having been.

Nah, we have definitive proof cause we KNOW it's an "alternate" reality that diverged from 616.

Therefore, it's an exact copy of 616 upto the point of divergence.

If you refuse to accept this fact, there's nothing else to debate about.

Now, as far as comparison go, everything in Korvac's realm was exactly the same as in 616.

At that time in 1982, there was absolutely NO difference whatsoever.
But sometime later till now,
the difference has become that the 616 abstracts represent the core of their totalities,
giving occurrences within 616
possibly a universal/multiversal/megaversal/or even omniversal significance.

Your explanation is BS. The LT himself said that he was sealing Korvac and the other cosmics in that universe to stop the insanity from spreading. Order and Chaos even contemplated leaving before he sealed off the universe off but decided to stay because "other universes have their own ORder and Chaos". It wasn't multiversal AT ALL. It's right here on panel!

That side, Sym and Madelyne's barrier was not there to prevent Cosmics,
as we saw Phoenix enter effortlessly.
It did prove affective against sorcerer level power like the human mystics that tried to penetrate.

On top of that, it only enveloped the planet,
while Korvac's blanketed his entire Universe.

Phoenix got booted from Korvac's reality
and even the combined power of Silver Surfer/Dr Strange and Phoenix
were unable to budge Korvac's barrier.

So I'll go with Korvac's barrier being infinitely more impressive.

WTH are you talking about? Sym and Madelyne's barrier was exactly like the one Korvac set up to keep Gods and Demons from entering into their universe, not to keep Cosmics that are already in the universe out. Where did you get that idea from!?

The LT put up a barrier that sealed off that entire universe from the rest of the multiverse not just adjacent godly/demon realms.

Originally posted by Mr Master

What we do know for a FACT
is that Reality-82432 (Korvac's world) is a Universe that diverged from Avengers #177.

Because of this,
Reality-82432 is a copy of Reality-616 in every way up until the point of divergence.

This is a Marvel Comics fact:

Divergent Earth: (Divergent Universe) --

[from the official Marvel Universe Handbook Glossary of definitions 2008]

"Alternate Earth which was once parallel to Earth-616,
until a change altered how it's history unfolded."

Originally posted by zopzop

Your explanation is BS.

As meaningless as it is ... see ... thats simple to type. 🙂

Originally posted by zopzop

The LT himself said that he was sealing Korvac and the other cosmics in that universe to stop the insanity from spreading. Order and Chaos even contemplated leaving before he sealed off the universe off but decided to stay because "other universes have their own ORder and Chaos". It wasn't multiversal AT ALL. It's right here on panel!

That aside, to address your post:

Master Order gave his reasons why they can't leave,
but Lord Chaos let it be known they can't anyway, regardless of perils or not,
"our dominion begins and ends here"

Anyway yea, the abstracts of the other realities were still around, but for whatever "What If" reason,
Korvac stomped the greatest powers of the Multiverse at the time! (excluding the LT)

"The most awesome assembly of diverse power-wielders in the history of the Multiverse"

You don't like it, write Gruenwald a letter and complain.

Or take it for what it is, a ... "What If" ... which is a playground for writers .

Next.

Originally posted by zopzop

WTH are you talking about? Sym and Madelyne's barrier was exactly like the one Korvac set up to keep Gods and Demons from entering into their universe, not to keep Cosmics that are already in the universe out.

Where did you get that idea from!?

Anyway, Madelyne/Sym's barrier was planetary: (and towards the end beings got through anyway)

While Korvac's was across his entire Universe, and only the LT got through.

Next.

Originally posted by zopzop

The LT put up a barrier that sealed off that entire universe from the rest of the multiverse not just adjacent godly/demon realms. In the follow up to the story as soon as that universe was nullified the LT dropped his barrier and they were able to return.

What does this have to do with what we're discussing right now?

Anyway, I gotta go night night, so enjoy. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Truth supported by On Panel evidence:

You're explanation is BS.

As meaningless as it is ... see ... that's simple to type. 🙂

This has absolutely nothing to do with what you're replying to.

That aside, to address your post:

Master Order gave his reasons why they can't leave,
but Lord Chaos let it be known they can't anyway, regardless of perils or not,
"our dominion begins and ends here"

Anyway yea, the abstracts of the other realities were still around, but for whatever "What If" reason,
Korvac stomped the greatest powers of the Multiverse at the time! (excluding the LT)

"The [b]most awesome assembly of diverse power-wielders in the history of the Multiverse"

You don't like it, write Gruenwald a letter and complain.

Or take it for what it is, a ... "What If" ... which is a playground for writers .

Next.

I got that idea from the comic book, how about you?

Anyway, Madelyne/Sym's barrier was planetary: (and towards the end beings got through anyway.

While Korvac's was across his entire Universe, and only the LT got through.

Next.

... I know that but ... you're not telling me anything I haven't known for many years ... but ...

What does this have to do with what we're discussing right now?

Anyway, I gotta go night night, so enjoy. 🙂 [/B]

A) Order and Chaos even said there are OTHER UNIVERSES WITH THEIR OWN ORDER AND CHAOS. Do you get that? The events in that What if were not multiversal in scope. So when he nullified that universe it had NO baring to any other universe or abstract outside that particular reality. The LT even said that he was sealing that universe off from the rest of the multiverse so it's madness doesn't spread. They couldn't have made it more clear, it was not a multiversal event.

B) Sym stated that they sealed off their What If dimension from godly and demonic realms and I quote "The same spell which seals off this DIMENSION....."

C) By the very fact that 616 Korvac went to great lengths to hide from other cosmics especially Eternity and was angry when the Avengers confronted him and thus he was exposed and Eternity was made aware of his presence, this happened BEFORE his suicide scene. If What If Korav's reality really was 100% exact until the suicide event then why didn't Eternity in What IF KOravac acknowledge Korvac and vise versa? Because the universes were NOT 100% identical till that scene.

Originally posted by zopzop
IT'S AN ALTERNATE REALITY. Who knows how close it follows 616 reality. Korvac NEVER mentioned Eternity and Eternity NEVER acknowledged Korvac in that WHAT IF issue. Why bring 616 reality into this?

😬

Now you're just being a negationism for negationism's sake, let's not ever discuss What If issues again ok?

Originally posted by zopzop

Because the universes were NOT 100% identical till that scene.

Therefore, I can understand your circles.

Originally posted by Bentley

Now you're just being a negationism for negationism's sake