The What If version of Michael Korvac vs Thanos, Lord Mar-vell, and Void...

Originally posted by zopzop

They sealed off that dimension from "outer dimensional forces".

The barrier was Planetary:

"the mystic barriers with which Sym/Madelyne have "surrounded the Earth"

++ Sym & Madelyne are NOT, and have NEVER been universal powers (even combined)
they can't even remotely hope to display such power as to seal off an entire Reality.

Heck,
Madelyne only tried claiming universal dominance when she acquired the PF,
other than that, Sym & Madelyne's combined power coupled with the Soulsword,
made them (combined) Planetary powers at best,
with the added ability to open a portal between two dimensions.

Originally posted by zopzop

The PF getting to Earth was a non issue, since the PF was already in that universe when the whole fiasco started. And let's just say you are correct, that they formed a barrier ONLY around Earth that kept even beings already in that universe out. This doesn't come into play regarding the PF since a portion of it was ALREADY ON EARTH, it's HOST Rachel was already INSIDE the barrier. So it getting through isn't a failing of the barrier. A portion of it was already there!

Originally posted by zopzop

Even ASSUMING your interpretation of the barrier is correct (it's not) ; that it was only around the Earth,

what does that prove? NOTHING.

"the mystic barriers with which Sym/Madelyne have "surrounded the Earth"

What does it prove?

That Korvac was far more powerful than Sym & Madelyne,
[u]so stop trying to demean Korvac sealing off en entire Universe
by comparing it to Sym & Madelyne's Planetary scale affect.

Which is the only reason I'm even debating another "What If" comic.

Originally posted by zopzop

To add further fuel to the fire, Korvac panicked at the sight of the armada and threatened them with the UN. If he was so powerful why not wipe the armada using nothing but his own "omnipotent" power? A space armada punked Korvac but the LT and all the other cosmics couldn't? That alone should tell you something was VERY VERY wrong with the power levels of the cosmic hierarchy in that universe as compared to 616 reality.

That doesn't tell me anything other than what I already know.

This is a "What If" from 1982 which means, PIS accompanied by inconsistencies will run rampant.

Originally posted by zopzop

But, he was causing UNIVERSAL imbalances. Look at what was going on with Order and Chaos, they were out of balance with Order dwarfing Chaos. A good number of universally important beings were also killed by Korvac. Yet he didnt' destroy the universe, he wanted to destroy the Earth, the source of all the commotion. Exactly like the What If X-men lost Inferno scenario.

That aside,
the LT's objective is to maintain supposed to be Multiversal balance,
and the threat of that is what brings him.

The LT wasn't even concerned with Korvac until the Watcher went to him and others for help.

Dude, did you read these stories are you just tapping scans from vs & respect threads?

Originally posted by zopzop

Again, ALTERNATE reality versions of beings that we have NO CLUE as to how they compare to their 616 counterparts. I can show you alternate reality versions of Celestials WASTING TWO IG users and other alt reality versions being unable to subdue Ego without help from a mutant!

Bottomline:

In THIS story:

Korvac defeated with the exception of the LT:

"The most awesome assembly of diverse power-wielders in the history of the Multiverse"

-----------------------------------------------------------

Makes sense?

No.

Oh it's a "What if" from 1982 so who gives a shit.

What If Korvac was the top of the totem and even LT had to shut of that reality otherwise, the Multiverse would of been toast.

Originally posted by lilshogun
What If Korvac was the top of the totem and even LT had to shut of that reality otherwise, the Multiverse would of been toast.

And yet he couldn't even handle an alien armada and resorted to using the UN (he even admitted as much on panel).

Also he was Death's b|tch :

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah.

The barrier was Planetary

Debatable since the freaking person that set it up said it was DIMENSIONAL in scope.

I disagree that Rachel being within the barrier gave the PF easier access inside,
that aside,
I agree the PF scenario doesn't definitively demean the barriers strength,
although, the writer never had any one but the PF & LT visit the Earth.

ASSUMING your "planetary barrier" theory is true; Not only was it's (the PF) Host on Earth but one of the two people that set up the barrier was destroyed and existed only in ghost form (Sym) and the other WANTED the PF's power (Madelyne) and was in contact with it. This happened BEFORE the PF made Earth fall. She (Madelyne) could have allowed the PF to enter the barrier since she lusted for its' power.

That Korvac was far more powerful than Sym & Madelyne,
[u]so stop trying to demean Korvac sealing off en [b]entire Universe
by comparing it to Sym & Madelyne's Planetary scale affect.

There is conflicting on panel statements regarding the scope of the barrier, it's CREATOR (the barrier's that is) said it was DIMENSIONAL in scope.

The LT wasn't even concerned with Korvac until the Watcher went to him and others for help.

Dude, did you read these stories are you just tapping scans from vs & respect threads?

False :

Watcher : "We all know why we are here. Some of you knew before I even contacted you. We must decide how to deal with this Earth born usurper and his scheme for remaking the universe in his own image."

LT : "Though I have not yet rendered final judgement, I decree that Korvac is indeed a threat to this dimension a threat of such magnitude that he must be dealt with before he can amass further might."

So, not only did I read it, I HAVE IT. That and the follow up issue and all Korvac (that I know of) appearances up to the "Korvac Quest" in the early 90s. I don't have anything after that and it seems like I'm not missing anything, his humiliation vs the Avengers Academy is something I can do without (the Captain America Cosmic Cube fiasco is another).

Originally posted by Bentley
Does disheartened sounds like he was scared to you? I may be french but that sounds more like he realized his failure and gave up -yet again- to his suicidal thoughts when he realized his dream couldn't be achieved. Korvac did his best to avoid a big confrontation, he isolated the armies of the skyfathers, he tried to pick on the cosmics secretly and one by one, but at the end none of that mattered because the living beings of the universe still raised against him. That changed the whole situation in more ways than just a powerlevel-focused one.

yep. smack on.

Originally posted by leonidas
yep. smack on.

I guess the provided scan of him "DESPERATELY amassing power" to confront his "final challenge" (the armada) doesn't exist right? 🙄

Originally posted by zopzop
I guess the provided scan of him "DESPERATELY amassing power" to confront his "final challenge" (the armada) doesn't exist right? 🙄

of course it exists. and?

Originally posted by zopzop

Debatable since the freaking person that set it up said it was DIMENSIONAL in scope.

😂

It seems Sym was in hyper story mode up in here.

That aside, and ALL this from page 6 of this thread:

"the mystic barriers with which Sym/Madelyne have surrounded the Earth"
"The doorway between Earth and the Dimension of demons"
"to open a rift between Earth and Limbo"
"The Planet's only hope"
"Phoenix energy spreads, until the entire World is covered"
"The LT senses the mystic balance is restored, the Planet Earth will survive"
"the rest of the Planet has been restored ... much of Earth's population ... "

We got Sym making a single ambiguous statement that can be explained away,
vs a plethora of other statements from characters to the narration panels
constraining everything in this story to the localized global area which is Planet Earth.

You can use the law of probability or toss a coin. 🙂

Originally posted by zopzop

ASSUMING your "planetary barrier" theory is true; Not only was it's (the PF) Host on Earth
but one of the two people that set up the barrier was destroyed and existed
only in ghost form (Sym) and the other WANTED the PF's power (Madelyne) and was in contact with it.
This happened BEFORE the PF made Earth fall.
She (Madelyne) could have allowed the PF to enter the barrier since she lusted for its' power.

But regardless, my main point was that it was a Planetary barrier.

The story itself would be enough for me but I also know Sym & Madelyne together or not,
are not universal powers, in this story or any other,
and it would take at-least a universal power to shield an entire reality from the rest of the Multiverse.

Originally posted by zopzop

There is conflicting on panel statements regarding the scope of the barrier,
it's CREATOR (the barrier's that is) said it was DIMENSIONAL in scope.

Also IMO, once Earth and Limbo converged,
it makes sense that the Earth was a dimension unto itself connected to Limbo.

You may have overlooked it but I suggested that indeed he was
referring to a "dimension" the "dimension that the Earth had
become once sealed and converged with the rift into Limbo.

Franklin's Counter-Earth is a dimension in of itself and it's the size of a Planet
located invisibly on the opposite side the Sun within 616's Earth system.

Of course, a few years later after 82'
these type of dimensions became more commonly known as "pocket" dimensions/universes.

Originally posted by zopzop

Watcher : "We all know why we are here. Some of you knew before I even contacted you.
We must decide how to deal with this Earth born usurper
and his scheme for remaking the universe in his own image."

LT : "Though I have not yet rendered final judgement,
I decree that Korvac is indeed a threat to this dimension a threat of such magnitude
that he must be dealt with before he can amass further might."

Also,
did you not think the Watcher may have been referring to the "some of you"
meaning certain Cosmics of that particular reality, since they were feeling the effects of Korvacs actions?

Just a thought.

Originally posted by zopzop

So, not only did I read it, I HAVE IT. That and the follow up issue and all Korvac (that I know of) appearances up to the "Korvac Quest" in the early 90s. I don't have anything after that and it seems like I'm not missing anything, his humiliation vs the Avengers Academy is something I can do without (the Captain America Cosmic Cube fiasco is another).

I remember Korvac (with CCU)
remaking that entire universe involving Captain America 72 times back to back.

I don't see how korvac was afraid of the armada at all. What was he afraid of?he had the UN, and they couldn't really hurt him only affect his plans. The comic even said as much. I see it as he could have faced them directly but it was less detrimental to his plans to use the UN. I think his desperation came from him not wanting to use the UN on them and him hoping they wouldn't make him.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I don't see how korvac was afraid of the armada at all. What was he afraid of?he had the UN, and they couldn't really hurt him only affect his plans. The comic even said as much. I see it as he could have faced them directly but it was less detrimental to his plans to use the UN. I think his desperation came from him not wanting to use the UN on them and him hoping they wouldn't make him.

pretty much. the watcher even SAYS he knew korvac could have handled things differently if he chose. he could simply have teleported away. he could have fought them at the end but he DID NOT WANT TO FIGHT. he wanted the universe to accept him. he even thought he could FORCE that acceptance. when it was clear they never would, he decided to end everything. it had nothing whatsoever to do with being afraid. the word DISHEARTENED is used specifically.

why did he "desperately" absorb power? who knows. maybe he thought he could intimidate them into submission, maybe he thought he needed MORE power to use the UN properly. maybe there were a 1000 reed richards in that armada! he DID view that collective as a final challenge--they were a final challenge to his ability to RULE, to bring them to HIS side. a challenge he was unable to overcome via intimidation or any other way. he never wanted the universe destroyed. he wanted it to accept him. only when it wouldn't did he succumb to his suicidal tendency (as he did in the avengers arc) and destroy everything.

i see the armada as a symbol of the universe's resistance, nothing more. to look at it in any other way only leads to all the nonsensical detail-mongering that has been repeated ad nauseum in this thread.

Originally posted by leonidas
pretty much. the watcher even SAYS he knew korvac could have handled things differently if he chose. he could simply have teleported away. he could have fought them at the end but he DID NOT WANT TO FIGHT. he wanted the universe to accept him. he even thought he could FORCE that acceptance. when it was clear they never would, he decided to end everything. it had nothing whatsoever to do with being afraid. the word DISHEARTENED is used specifically.

why did he "desperately" absorb power? who knows. maybe he thought he could intimidate them into submission, maybe he thought he needed MORE power to use the UN properly. maybe there were a 1000 reed richards in that armada! he DID view that collective as a final challenge--they were a final challenge to his ability to RULE, to bring them to HIS side. a challenge he was unable to overcome via intimidation or any other way. he never wanted the universe destroyed. he wanted it to accept him. only when it wouldn't did he succumb to his suicidal tendency (as he did in the avengers arc) and destroy everything.

i see the armada as a symbol of the universe's resistance, nothing more. to look at it in any other way only leads to all the nonsensical detail-mongering that has been repeated ad nauseum in this thread.

So basically you're ignoring the on panel evidence and making up scenarios in your head? Whatever works for you.

Originally posted by Raptor22
he had the UN, and they couldn't really hurt him only affect his plans. The comic even said as much. I see it as he could have faced them directly but it was less detrimental to his plans to use the UN. I think his desperation came from him not wanting to use the UN on them and him hoping they wouldn't make him.

Where does it say that on panel? Can you point it out to me?

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude, IT SAYS IT RIGHT THERE ON PANEL. He threatened them to back or or he'd use the UN and the follow up story makes it CRYSTAL clear for those that had any doubts. They didn't back off and he fired off the UN. You can't have it both ways, first you say he wasn't scared of the armada, he just didn't want to damage the universe (contradicting what's on panel), then you say he intended to fire off the UN no matter what the armada did (hence "damaging" the universe anyway). Which is it?

PS do you notice something in this scan?

Look closely, do you see him now? 😄

Exactly like the final page in the comic said, for all those who doubt.

Every point already addressed with on-panel dialogue, narration and past history. You have been ignoring several of my comments with all kinds of different backing by just repeating the same things, at least you could address my point directly. Korvac was going to release his hate, didn't even considered a pacific notion and ranted about punishing the universe just before. Then Korvac -who according to his own beliefs was making the universe better- tries to stick with his shtick and give the armada an out, you think this goes against the destroying-the-universe notion? It doesn't. Korvac is confirming his suspicion all along: his plan of perfect order is countered by the fact the armada won't stop and chaos will reign.

Let's recall that Korvac wanted perfect order, but as he fought on Chaos was growing bigger. This is just the final expression of that Chaos. Add that to the many arguments for Korvac not-fearing-the-armada's-power already explained during this whole thread.

Originally posted by leonidas

pretty much. the watcher even SAYS he knew korvac could have handled things differently if he chose. he could simply have teleported away. he could have fought them at the end but he DID NOT WANT TO FIGHT. he wanted the universe to accept him. he even thought he could FORCE that acceptance. when it was clear they never would, he decided to end everything. it had nothing whatsoever to do with being afraid. the word DISHEARTENED is used specifically.

why did he "desperately" absorb power? who knows. maybe he thought he could intimidate them into submission, maybe he thought he needed MORE power to use the UN properly. maybe there were a 1000 reed richards in that armada! he DID view that collective as a final challenge--they were a final challenge to his ability to RULE, to bring them to HIS side. a challenge he was unable to overcome via intimidation or any other way. he never wanted the universe destroyed. he wanted it to accept him. only when it wouldn't did he succumb to his suicidal tendency (as he did in the avengers arc) and destroy everything.

i see the armada as a symbol of the universe's resistance, nothing more. to look at it in any other way only leads to all the nonsensical detail-mongering that has been repeated ad nauseum in this thread.

Originally posted by Bentley

Every point already addressed with on-panel dialogue, narration and past history. You have been ignoring several of my comments with all kinds of different backing by just repeating the same things, at least you could address my point directly. Korvac was going to release his hate, didn't even considered a pacific notion and ranted about punishing the universe just before. Then Korvac -who according to his own beliefs was making the universe better- tries to stick with his shtick and give the armada an out, you think this goes against the destroying-the-universe notion? It doesn't. Korvac is confirming his suspicion all along: his plan of perfect order is countered by the fact the armada won't stop and chaos will reign.

Let's recall that Korvac wanted perfect order, but as he fought on Chaos was growing bigger. This is just the final expression of that Chaos. Add that to the many arguments for Korvac not-fearing-the-armada's-power already explained during this whole thread.

edit ... wrong thread. 🙁

Wow. That was an... Entertaining read.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The version of Michael Korvac that destroyed the universe in the famous What If takes on Thanos, Lord Mar-vell, and Void...

Fight to the Death or KO...no BFR...who wins?

Haven't you been warned like several times about making spite threads?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
lol

Haven't you been warned like several times about making spite threads?

According to several posters here, not only does Korvac lose this fight, but apparently, Thanos can solo this version of Korvac...

So it isn't a spite/bait thread because two people took the bait?

If that was the case, none of your threads would be closed for spite, but they are, and you know they are when you make the threads.

Never learn

The combined might of this team is not nearly enough. Even if Korvac can't kill them, a guy with the absorbed combined power of Galactus, the Celestial host, the Stranger, a cosmic cube, Elders, maybe In-Betweener and other beings, can certainly trash them to the point where even they don't want to play any more. The Void would probably try to escape and Thanos and Mar-Vell will be on their knees begging for mercy again.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone of final Korvac's power level could just imprison or destroy their souls outright to just bypass death and consign them to Oblivion in some way.