Galactus vs Celestials (the fight happens in Feb)

Originally posted by GalanOfTaa
1. To tamper: Exert a secret or corrupt influence upon (someone); meddling: the act of altering something secretly or improperly.

🙂

as your own definition says--he was ALTERED, ie changed from his original form.

thinking an UNALTERED g could do what THAT g did is pure, UNFOUNDED, speculation. like i said and your own definition corroborated.

With this said, Tiamut merely TAMPERED with his HUNGER. Meaning it is well within his power to consume all that is; thinking otherwise is foolish. However, he still has a conscience, and in order to not feel guilty for all the civilizations he has consumed he claims intrinsic importance to universal consonance and feeds merely to SURVIVE.

before this discussion began, i already understood your opinion and realized it wouldn't be swayed. however, when you are claiming something that is unfounded, it isn't wise to call the opinions of others foolish....

... and I quote: "Something further to note is that the Celestial in the Black Celestial arc didn't alter Galactus' armor to hold more energy, he only altered it to make it seem to Galactus that he was in a constant state of hunger. The ability to build the black hole machine which was consuming that universe, and time itself, was the creation of Galactus as was his ability to hold that energy within.".

quoted from where?

and of course if he NEVER became satiated he could eat forever. what's your point? his hunger was ALTERED to allow him to devour what he did. without said alteration it is pure speculation that he could replicate said feat. you can argue all you want, but that is a simple fact.

2. Fair enough. Let's compare their origins then:

-The Celestials: the manifestation of Eternity's thoughts; Armour wearing living galaxies.
Greatest feat was throwing planets at Thanos. (Scathan is PIS + Alternate reality)

--> i.imgur.com/G5xog.png
--> i.imgur.com/fzgtf.jpg

-Galactus: the living embodiment of the cosmos before our own; the next multi-Eternity.
Greatest feat was nearly devouring all realities and then nullifying himself with his own weapon.

--> "Born before the Big Bang, Galactus was named "Galan" and hailed from an advanced alien race on the planet Taa. When he discovers Taa and the universe are doomed, Galan and a small band of survivors decide to meet their end at the heart of the universe.
Everyone dies except Galan who bonds with the universe—together they become "a living organism who possesses the matchless power and raging appetite of a galaxy. He shall be more than a galaxy. He shall be a Galactic ravager...He shall be GALACTUS!""
--> Can post a lot of scans, but that won't be needed, now will it?

😂

you wrote all that to try and convince me g>watcher?

hilarious all the quotes though. my favourite parts are BEYOND doubt these though:

"the next multi-eternity" 😂

yeah, THAT one will require a scan i'm afraid.....

i also found the irony of THIS statement amusing:

Scathan is PIS + Alternate reality

you know that black arc scene with g was set all across time, right? AND you agree that g was altered (as you own definition verifies). so, claiming the scathan scene is PIS is.... pretty funny.

-> i.imgur.com/M8ESQ.jpg
--> Read herochat.com/forum/index.php?topic=226731.40 by Dr.Dog; this thread pretty much sums up everything I WOULD say, if I had the time.

you're actually directing me to read herochat? 😑 er, think i'll trust my own knowledge of the character.

Not PIS; read it in an interview the other day (no link.. so you probably won't believe me. Just ask Brevoort) that Galactus spared Earth because he admired Reed's bravery.
Therefore it's a retcon; you cannot dismiss events like that because it aids your argument!

you.....didn't read what i wrote, did you? i said i'm uncertain about the role of the un as relates to galactus BECAUSE THAT SCENE IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH IT'S PAST HISTORY. reed found it. morg found it for tyrant. reed found it AGAIN even though g was DEAD. if it were 'part of him' how was it still in existence when g himself wasn't?

it may prove to be a part of him in some other thread that clarifies things. for now, i'll reserve judgement. the idea that g could bring it out and use it anytime he wants it ridiculous in the extreme though. he has NEVER done so in battle, even while he was about to die, and never even ALLUDED to the fact that he could do so. save that particular argument for someone dumb enough to entertain it.

Originally posted by GalanOfTaa
Strong logic.
Unfortunately for you.. his use of the UN is entirely up to the writers and I am just being sarcastic: Your logic scores amongst the worst I have ever had the displeasure of witnessing.
May the power cosmic be with you, for you cannot be dealt with logically, much like a female.

I bid thee farewell!

😆

and.....that should pretty much cinch things. socks get bans around here. 🙂

Originally posted by GalanOfTaa
This.
You blokes have been using crap arguments for the past day, and I, as a major fan of Galactus, have come here to explain something to you lot:

-When Galactus fought Odin, he did so in Asgard, Odin’s realm; the same applies to Mephisto.
-Now, we all know just how powerful sky fathers are in their own little realms.
-When Odin, with the combined might of all of Asgard minus Thor and Loki dared to defy the Celestials, it took like six of them to destroy the Destroyer armour.
With this being said, Galactus appears quite a lot and is, therefore, used as a plot device ALL the time. However, I cannot stress this enough: do not forget about the black celestial arc... just don’t, because it shows Galactus' true potential; it portrays a Galactus that cares not about his cosmic duties, that cares ONLY to survive, but shows that he could consume the omniverse (tiamut included) as well, thus being able to ascend to... Omni Eternity? So basically he would ascend to a being in the Infinity Being tier - ruler of the Omniverse.

This has got to be the most ignorant post so far: Galactus is as big as he wishes to be, and the same applies to Celestials (Infinity Gauntlet).

Cannot tell if you're being serious or just delusional, Odin gave up. Although I don't think he entered the Odinsleep, I do think he gave up and that his words were true.

Though this may be true, Big G consumed Tiamut after he tampered with his ever-gnawing hunger.

One last thing, the Celestials and the Watchers are said to be enemies (I know Galactus and the Cels are enemies as well), and we both know just how much stronger than Uatu (one of the strongest Watchers) Galactus is.

Although I am certain you were talking about "The Horde", I think I can agree with this. : ]

Sorry mate, I hope the Celestials do well, but not well enough. On second though, no!, I hope they get humillated by Galactus and him only! That would settle a bunch of arguments online, and please his fans. **** the Celestials!

... P.S.: Galactus still has the Ultimate Nullifier, which he can fire at will in case future outlook is bleak!

fair enough friend

hope my guys win

hickman isn't a fan of both look at s.h.i.e.l.d

galactus doesn't whip out the un and start nullifying ppl, if so he'd have a perfect 100% record

he didn't use it vs the chaos king as mentioned before

Originally posted by leonidas
🙂

as your own definition says--he was ALTERED, ie changed from his original form.

thinking an UNALTERED g could do what THAT g did is pure, UNFOUNDED, speculation. like i said and your own definition corroborated.

before this discussion began, i already understood your opinion and realized it wouldn't be swayed. however, when you are claiming something that is unfounded, it isn't wise to call the opinions of others foolish....

quoted from where?

and of course if he NEVER became satiated he could eat forever. what's your point? his hunger was ALTERED to allow him to devour what he did. without said alteration it is pure speculation that he could replicate said feat. you can argue all you want, but that is a simple fact.

😂

you wrote all that to try and convince me g>watcher?

hilarious all the quotes though. my favourite parts are BEYOND doubt these though:

"the next multi-eternity" 😂

yeah, THAT one will require a scan i'm afraid.....

i also found the irony of THIS statement amusing:

Scathan is PIS + Alternate reality

you know that black arc scene with g was set all across time, right? AND you agree that g was altered (as you own definition verifies). so, claiming the scathan scene is PIS is.... pretty funny.

you're actually directing me to read herochat? 😑 er, think i'll trust my own knowledge of the character.

you.....didn't read what i wrote, did you? i said i'm uncertain about the role of the un as relates to galactus BECAUSE THAT SCENE IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH IT'S PAST HISTORY. reed found it. morg found it for tyrant. reed found it AGAIN even though g was DEAD. if it were 'part of him' how was it still in existence when g himself wasn't?

it may prove to be a part of him in some other thread that clarifies things. for now, i'll reserve judgement. the idea that g could bring it out and use it anytime he wants it ridiculous in the extreme though. he has NEVER done so in battle, even while he was about to die, and never even ALLUDED to the fact that he could do so. save that particular argument for someone dumb enough to entertain it.

The Multi-Eternity thing was said by John Byrne himself in his forum, Byrne Robotics, but can also be deduced from the scan I posted.
I shall not argue with you, as you are clearly too biased to be dealt with rationally. It said in the scan that he only made his hunger insatiable, thus he went from a state of "only wanting to survive" to "devouring every thing in sight" to satiate an hunger that can't be satiated.

Congratulations, you have demonstrated the incredible ability of being able to put things out of perspective/context and alter their meaning! You are a very good debater indeed!

I know you're going to say something along the lines of "Haha GalanofTaa calling me biased, nice username" or something childish like that, but fear not, I have decided to follow Tom Brevoort's advice and stop visiting Battle forums as they are utterly rubbish, with members whose intellects border the unacceptable.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Well it was said that Exitar had accumulated the energy needed to destroy the watchers for several thousand years. And all the Watchers was gathered (from what I understand) on the same planet. So imo to say that the Celestials is clearly above the Watchers is incorrect.

huh? 3 skyfathers couldn't get arishem's attention. a destroyer armor powered by all of asgard could do no harm at all.

quasar and ss have both beaten watchers. 😐

i'd say it is about as clear as anything could be that a celestial>>watcher.

Yet doesn't the UN always finds it way back to Galactus? And I'm not entirely sure but apart from the incident with Reed holding Galactus at "gunpoint" with the UN, how many times have it actually happened that Galactus have been threatened with the UN?

threatened by it? twice that i know of. and once consumed. if it's part of him, why couldn't he control it? thanos took and once and gave it to quasar as well, without g's notice. so, it's been stolen, it's killed g, and it has threatened him in the hands of others. that doesn't sound much like it's 'part of him' to me. if it does have some link (which it may) i suspect the relationship will be a lot more complex than it being just a'weapon' he can call upon yet never has.

The Celestials/Horde/Watchers are instruments of the Fulcrum(TOAA)

Good story by two brothers who wrote the last Eternals story. Sadly was cancelled three issues short

I'm sure Hickman may write another tale like Kieron is doin for the X-Men

All writers write as they please no regards to contunity and that's sad

Originally posted by GalanOfTaa
The Multi-Eternity thing was said by John Byrne himself in his forum, Byrne Robotics, but can also be deduced from the scan I posted.
I shall not argue with you, as you are clearly too biased to be dealt with rationally. It said in the scan that he only made his hunger insatiable, thus he went from a state of "only wanting to survive" to "devouring every thing in sight" to satiate an hunger that can't be satiated.

Congratulations, you have demonstrated the incredible ability of being able to put things out of perspective/context and alter their meaning! You are a very good debater indeed!

I know you're going to say something along the lines of "Haha GalanofTaa calling me biased, nice username" or something childish like that, but fear not, I have decided to follow Tom Brevoort's advice and stop visiting Battle forums as they are utterly rubbish, with members whose intellects border the unacceptable. [/QUOTE

[QUOTE=13616331]Originally posted by leonidas
😆

and.....that should pretty much cinch things. socks get bans around here. 🙂

you're epic debating skills will be missed. 😆

The UN never killed him. He went to an alternate dimension when he was almost completely drained.
He's been threatened twice. Once against Reed, and once against Morg... which wasn't really threatening G.

There's also the scene of him firing it from many galaxies away and it going directly to Korvac's location.

TBH, it just seems like he doesn't care about it most times. Guy's got so many other shit that would keep an autistic kid busy forever.

Also, Galactus killed a Watcher too

Originally posted by Utrigita
Well it was said that Exitar had accumulated the energy needed to destroy the watchers for several thousand years. And all the Watchers was gathered (from what I understand) on the same planet. So imo to say that the Celestials is clearly above the Watchers is incorrect.

U know eternal friend Uatu stood by in awe when the Monolith Gatherer arrived

The One easily killed by Exitar

And their fates were doomed if not for a petty writer at the time

Tiamut easily dismissed Uatu during the last Eternals story, yet became a 'friend'

So, based on those facts for me Celestials easily above the Watchers

Originally posted by GalanOfTaa
Not a very compelling argument... AT ALL. You have failed to disprove everything both I and utrigita said, thus you have ultimately lost this argument.

Galactus didn't use the UN against Annihilus / Cancerverse Galactus.
Therefore, he won't use it against the Celestials.

(P.S.: He also said, "do what must be done"😉

Strong logic.
Unfortunately for you.. his use of the UN is entirely up to the writers and I am just being sarcastic: Your logic scores amongst the worst I have ever had the displeasure of witnessing.
May the power cosmic be with you, for you cannot be dealt with logically, much like a female.

I bid thee farewell!

Declaring yourself to be the winner of an argument is one of the most common failures in argumentation. Also, you try to resort to ad hominems (another logical fallacy). And finally, you virtually run away. Talking about logic and the strength of argument, you might want to look into mirror.

I rely on statistics, on overwhelming evidence about Galactus not being able to use the UN in dire circumstances. Did he personally use it against

- Abraxas? NO
- Galactus Engine? NO
- Aegis & Tenebrous? NO
- The Rogue Watcher? NO
- The Phoenix? NO
- Magus & the incomplete IG? NO
- Thanos & IG? NO
- The Beyonder? NO
- and so on and so on

That is not just a couple of isolated events, it is a well established trend throughout his entire character history.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're epic debating skills will be missed. 😆

Before you criticize my "epic debating skills", you might want to learn the difference between "your" and "you're".

Originally posted by Magnon
Declaring yourself to be the winner of an argument is one of the most common failures in argumentation. Also, you try to resort to ad hominems (another logical fallacy). And finally, you virtually run away. Talking about logic and the strength of argument, you might want to look into mirror.

I rely on statistics, on overwhelming evidence about Galactus not being able to use the UN in dire circumstances. Did he personally use it against

- Abraxas? NO
- Galactus Engine? NO
- Aegis & Tenebrous? NO
- The Rogue Watcher? NO
- The Phoenix? NO
- Magus & the incomplete IG? NO
- Thanos & IG? NO
- The Beyonder? NO
- and so on and so on

That is not just a couple of isolated events, it is a well established trend throughout his entire character history.

I don't care about ad hominems, all I care about is logic, which you lack.
Furthermore, I did not declare myself a winner, just said you were wrong. You being wrong and me being right are two different things which are not mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by leonidas
huh? 3 skyfathers couldn't get arishem's attention. a destroyer armor powered by all of asgard could do no harm at all.

quasar and ss have both beaten watchers. 😐

i'd say it is about as clear as anything could be that a celestial>>watcher.

threatened by it? twice that i know of. and once consumed. if it's part of him, why couldn't he control it? thanos took and once and gave it to quasar as well, without g's notice. so, it's been stolen, it's killed g, and it has threatened him in the hands of others. that doesn't sound much like it's 'part of him' to me. if it does have some link (which it may) i suspect the relationship will be a lot more complex than it being just a'weapon' he can call upon yet never has.

Yet the only direct power comparison between them, a direct face off leave it obvious that Exitar (that by Thors account is stronger then the entire fourth Host combined) has to wait thousands of years to get the required energy to kill the watchers. And I'm sorry but I give more for the stand off and Uatu's comment then I give for their low showing against herald level beings. But I respect your opinion.

Yet it found it's way back into Galactus hands once again, and Galactus was at that point of time in the Dimension of Manifestation when it was stolen iirc (Quasar incident), also what does that make it in total, like 3 times it have been used or stolen. Yet not much of that changes that can you name a single time the UN hasn't endeed up at Galactus again in the end? Even the Morg incident when Taa II was complete disintegrated, Galactus still managed to obtain the UN again.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yet the only direct power comparison between them, a direct face off leave it obvious that Exitar (that by Thors account is stronger then the entire fourth Host combined) has to wait thousands of years to get the required energy to kill the watchers. And I'm sorry but I give more for the stand off and Uatu's comment then I give for their low showing against herald level beings. But I respect your opinion.

in general, i think watchers are below skyfathers--just. we'll agree to disagree. 👆

Yet it found it's way back into Galactus hands once again, and Galactus was at that point of time in the Dimension of Manifestation when it was stolen iirc (Quasar incident), also what does that make it in total, like 3 times it have been used or stolen. Yet not much of that changes that can you name a single time the UN hasn't endeed up at Galactus again in the end? Even the Morg incident when Taa II was complete disintegrated, Galactus still managed to obtain the UN again. [/B]

you raise a fair enough point. however, when the un was regained for the abraxas arc it was NOT in g's keeping. can't recall HOW the knowledge of the location of the un was placed in johnny's head(s) but i don't recall that it was g that put it there though. feel free to prove me wrong however. it's been a litte since i read that arc in detail. 🙂

Originally posted by GalanOfTaa
Before you criticize my "epic debating skills", you might want to learn the difference between "your" and "you're".

hey, you finally got something right. 👆

and.....i thought we were all beneath you. shouldn't you have left by now.....?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The UN never killed him. He went to an alternate dimension when he was almost completely drained.

are you talking about the tyrant incident?

He's been threatened twice. Once against Reed, and once against Morg... which wasn't really threatening G.

There's also the scene of him firing it from many galaxies away and it going directly to Korvac's location.

cool, where was that?

TBH, it just seems like he doesn't care about it most times. Guy's got so many other shit that would keep an autistic kid busy forever.

Also, Galactus killed a Watcher too [/B]

i think it's a lot more than not caring about it. and watchers have really fallen over the years. g killing one as part of collateral damage is just another in a line of less-than showings. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
are you talking about the tyrant incident?

cool, where was that?

i think it's a lot more than not caring about it. and watchers have really fallen over the years. g killing one as part of collateral damage is just another in a line of less-than showings. 😬

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/FantasticFourAnnual24-04.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/FantasticFourAnnual24-07.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/FantasticFourAnnual24-09.jpg

iirc the beams followed him across timelines as well

Writers not caring about it. If you put that into comic terms, it goes into Galactus not caring about it.

Not really. The Watchers haven't had any better or worse showings recently than they have before. Plus the writer of that was actually really good, as opposed to Loeb... either way.

Originally posted by leonidas
in general, i think watchers are below skyfathers--just. we'll agree to disagree. 👆

you raise a fair enough point. however, when the un was regained for the abraxas arc it was NOT in g's keeping. can't recall HOW the knowledge of the location of the un was placed in johnny's head(s) but i don't recall that it was g that put it there though. feel free to prove me wrong however. it's been a litte since i read that arc in detail. 🙂

The most logical conclusion as to it not being in Galactus possession was because Galactus at the point of time was dead. As I understod the arc every Johnny Storm in various alternate universes had basically tried, succeeded or failed to collect the UN (to help in the very first meeting with Galactus) so each had a partial idea on where to look, so the idea must have been planted by the Watcher (wasn't he the one that guided Johnny to the UN the first time around?)

Quick question, did people even READ the Black Celestial arc in FF that featured that future version of Tiamut and Galactus? For those of you who didn't here's some key facts :

a) An IMPRISIONED and depowered Tiamut ALTERED Galactus' very being. Tiamut was still in his coma and he played with Galactus' like a toy

b) The only reason Tiamut was consumed in the Black Hole effect centering on Galactus was because :

1) He was never at full power to begin with, his Deviant slaves built engines in his prison to power him to where he was almost as strong as he was before his imprisonment/depowerment by the Second Host

2) Right before that Black Hole incident, Reed discovered that the only reason Tiamut was up and about was because of the engines the Deviants made in his prison base. He sends Gladiator with an entire cities worth of high tech Shi'ar explosives to destroy the base just as they were leading him around the Time Bubble. He was DEPOWERED by the time he made it to Galactus' belly/black hole and that's why he couldn't resist or protect himself from the effect.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Yes.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/FantasticFourAnnual24-04.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/FantasticFourAnnual24-07.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/FantasticFourAnnual24-09.jpg

iirc the beams followed him across timelines as well

Writers not caring about it. If you put that into comic terms, it goes into Galactus not caring about it.

Not really. The Watchers haven't had any better or worse showings recently than they have before. Plus the writer of that was actually really good, as opposed to Loeb... either way.

hrm, horrible arc. i'd forgotten all about that run. that's the one that ended with reed banishing the rays with doom's time machine and po'ing the time variance guys.

the only issue i have with those scans (aside from the terrible retconning of that AWESOME avengers arc) as proof of anything is that the g that used it was from the far distant future. it was a gotg arc. it was also made clear during that arc that g used the nullifier a lot, something that, in our time period, certainly isn't the case. some of those gotg arcs were.... out there. you made your point, i'm just not sure how legitimate that scene is.

about the nullifier--as i said, it may prove to be some part of him. maybe he'll whip it out sometime and actually use it in the way some believe he can. but until his relationship with the un is explored further, i would never consider it fair game in a galactus vs thread. i still don't think it's a matter of his simply not caring to use it. doesn't make sense to me.

at one time, uatu was considered a near-equal to g. the difference is that in the past watchers rarely battled directly. they have several less-than showings and not all that many (but some) strong ones. so i'd say their portrayals have changed quite a bit.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The most logical conclusion as to it not being in Galactus possession was because Galactus at the point of time was dead. As I understod the arc every Johnny Storm in various alternate universes had basically tried, succeeded or failed to collect the UN (to help in the very first meeting with Galactus) so each had a partial idea on where to look, so the idea must have been planted by the Watcher (wasn't he the one that guided Johnny to the UN the first time around?)

i'm not sure where the knowledge came from tbh. bran seems to think g wasn't actually dead at the time. meant to ask him where he got that bit of info......