Damn! This thread degenerated into a homo word slingfest?
@ ChainOfLove
There is difference between having basic knowledge of someone and detailed knowledge of personal capabilities and talents of someone.
For example; Yoda may know about Revan because of Jedi Archives. However, it is not necessary that Yoda possessed detailed knowledge of his personal capabilities and talents or such knowledge was ever recorded in the archives.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Really? I don't recall a hole being torn in space/time. I see destruction and teleportation. Also, please explain the relevance of his force storm in a combat situation?
I didn't necessarily mean that Sidious would use it in combat situation, but the fact that Sidious has the ability to create force storms, which can tear the fabric of space, is an example of the raw energies Sidious has at his command. Niether Reven nor Vitiate has displayed this level of raw power. Added to his raw strength in the force, Palpatine's mastery of it, and his exceptional skills with a lightsaber should more than tip this match in Palpatine's favor, should his and Vitiate's mental powers cancel each other's out.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
He DID actually dominate 100 sith lords
According to an unverified legend.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
which isn't debatable,
I wouldn't go that far. The legend hasn't been corroborated elsewhere, has it?
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
but I've already stated that both points are moot as they aren't relevant in combat situations.
Agreed.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Sidious has never shown the mental powers of actually dominating over 100 sith lords to his will so your point is moot. His level of mastery of the force storm is irrelevant in a combat scenario.
I didn't say anything about him using a force storm in combat. Reread.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Well, if you're going to chalk everything off to a "legend", there's no point in using him in fight threads, is there?
Setting aside the larger issue of whether or not details from the legend should be accepted at face value, we have factual depictions of his abilities as a combatant from his duel with Revan and The Old Republic's cutscenes, which is more than what we have to go on for some other characters.
I think Janus addressed this before in terms of accepting the legend, although you can choose not to accept every little detail. The legend seems to follow a logical progression all the way to Vitate's immortality. In terms of his combat abilities, Revan needed to be pretty much a pure avatar of both the light and the dark side just to knock this guy off his feet.
It was Lucius the Whore, I believe, not Janus. The problem with that is that acceptance of such things seems to be remarkably selective. If I recall, Lucius's point was essentially that we should accept the legend's veracity because there isn't anything presented in the novel to contradict it. Though this is not true: Vitiate's apparent inability to mentally subjugate the members of the Dark Council strongly suggests that his ability to use the Force to compel obedience is limited.
I could be persuaded to accept the legend as the gospel, but not when comments regarding Palpatine's mastery of the Force from The Dark Empire Sourcebook are so casually swept aside by those who are reluctant to accept the fact that his knowledge base transcends any and all Force users who came before him. After all, nothing contradicts the idea that Sidious had nearly mastered all the known powers and so forth.
Why should I accept one as the truth but not the other?
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
In terms of his combat abilities, Revan needed to be pretty much a pure avatar of both the light and the dark side just to knock this guy off his feet.
Revan, chapter 28
AS MEETRA AND SCOURGE BATTLED the Guard, Revan charged toward the Emperor.His opponent stood perfectly still, focusing and channeling his power. At the last possible instant, the Emperor unleashed a wave of energy that swept Revan off his feet and sent him flying backward.
Vitiate had to spend moments focusing and channeling his power in order to sweep aside a charging opponent. Likewise, Vitiate had to gather Force energy to him in order to unleash the final burst of lightning that Revan arrogantly tried to deflect bare handed. Standard Force lightning was insufficient; Revan deflected or dodged all the bursts courtesy of his lightsaber.
I remain skeptical that Vitiate possesses the power or skill to best Sidious.
Again, Revan had to become an avatar of both the light and dark side to withstand Vitiate's attacks. He actually tried using his saber and his hands to block the force storm I believe. Also, there's nothing indicating that vitiate needed to focus and channel his power into one attack. This isn't that other weakling who died at the hands of scourge. There is never any indication that Vitiate has to do that.