DE Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're not going to needle me into a defensive posture with this.

Eh? I'm not trying to needle you into anything, I'm just making my case.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't really care.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And I don't see it as a failing.

You do know what failure means, right?

Originally posted by Nephthys
They simply attempted different approaches. Vitiate with open warfare and Sidious through secrecy.

So if someone were to try a "different approach" to, say, flying by leaping off the Burj Khalifa and flapping their arms... you wouldn't call that a failure?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus Vitiate himself didn't ever engage in the conflict and didn't really care about it.

Pretty sure he didn't dedicate his entire lifetime to something he didn't care about.

I meant that its no failing that he took so much longer than Sidious.

Conquest through force is hardly as illogical as that, especially when you consider his true goal.

Pretty sure he did, as is mentioned in the Jedi Knight campaign, the whole war with the Republic is just a tool to cause mass-death and fuel his ritual.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I meant that its no failing that he took so much longer than Sidious.

The tortoise and the hare aesop only applies if the tortoise wins the race and in this case, he didn't.

Put it another way, the tortoise in this case took ~35 times as long as the hare and only reached half the distance.

I'm not sure how he's not a failure.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Conquest through force is hardly as illogical as that, especially when you consider his true goal.

Pretty sure he did, as is mentioned in the Jedi Knight campaign, the whole war with the Republic is just a tool to cause mass-death and fuel his ritual.

I'm aware of what is alleged about Vitiate's motivations, but I'm not buying it. The alternative is that he's a failure in that respect as well. A man seeking perpetual death to fuel his eldritch ritual of apotheosis wouldn't agree to a decade-plus ceasefire.

He only agreed to the ceasefire because of Revan influencing him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He only agreed to the ceasefire because of Revan influencing him.

I'm hoping this is speculation. From where is this told?

TOR.

YouTube video

7.45

That's awful. Is it said what changed?

Yeah, Revans pretty lame now. I don't think so, other than the war restarting with, I think, no influence from Vitiate. Plus he'd probably already foreseen the HoT beating him by that point, so I doubt he'd want to fvck around any longer.

Dear God. Veneficus could have written that wayyyy better.

Originally posted by steveholt953
What's your point here? Sidious kept tabs on all the Jedi while the Emperor had his essence in Jedi ON the Council.

That's about as relevant as Sidious clouding all the minds of the Jedi.

Sidious still proved far more crafty with his subjects and the few Jedi he faced personally. He broke Maul effortlessly, he killed three masters expediently and simultaneously. Corrupted Anakin with a combination of esoteric abilities.

Why is Vitiate inferior to Darth Nihilus? If you're using the drain as the deciding factor, then everyone is inferior to Nihilus.

Only in the aspect of essence drain, that is the nature of a Wound.

Yea this is a meaningless point. Sidious being more clever than Vitiate doesn't mean he'll devise any rouse. It just means he'll do what he can to make the fight more advantageous to himself, if possible.

Not meaningless, Sidious' ability to devise a monster/trick (Nihilus' Visas/Anakin's dying Padme) to bring Vitiate down is indicative of what would happen based on Vitiate's immediate power advantage and Sidious' past in dealing with superior masters of the Force (Plagueis).

Sidious has his tricks, Vitiate has his essence drain rituals.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Their situations were drastically different.

Only because Vitiate lacked the inclination to put him in the advantageous situations Sidious benefited from.

The dark side rejected who exactly? Where are you getting this information?

In The Book of Sith Luke Skywalker makes a hand-written note, speculating that the will of the dark side did not see fit to allow influence from the likes of Plagueis.

What? What Sidious wanted to do and what he could do are two different things.

He was fully capable of inhabiting Anakin Solo, physically that is.

Again, this doesn't make any sense.

I was merely indicating their capabilities would eventually approach Son, the Embodiment of the dark side, if their respective paths to power and esoteric understanding would have continued uninhibited.

Vitiate through massive essence drain, Plagueis through scientifically harnessing the unnatural effects of the dark side using its interactions with the physical world (midi-chlorians), and Palpatine through the immortal powers he'd gain from inhabiting a Skywalker - with an immense Force potential stacked by the Living force, as the Oracle Stone admitted this was the will of the dark side itself.

The only differences they'd have then is intelligence, guile, and trickery. Sidious gets the best of these traits, and gets the better of any of his opponents. His ego sum seemed to accelerate as time progressed.

Guile - His ego sum seemed to accelerate as time progressed. Intellect - he was intelligent enough to understand how illusory and painstakingly inexpedient approaching it from an empirical angle would have been. Trickery - and of course he was fricken devious - no comparison in his ability to deceive or to perceptively notice and exploit weakness.

He was like the poster boy of Sith doctrines, the epitome of Sith aspiration.

Originally posted by Dolos
Vitiate's strength was in alchemy.

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force. The boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. (SWTORE, Page 16)

I think that Vitiate had very high Midichlorian count.

It shall be noted that Sith Alchemy was a popular subject of dark arts in ancient times. Same was true for Sith sorcery also. Therefore, it was logical for Vitiate to focus on these popular subjects and hone his talents accordingly.

Originally posted by Dolos
He had far more time to study the Dark Side than Sidious. His esoteric knowledge was superior to all other Sith Lords, which is perhaps his most miraculous feat of all.

Originally posted by Dolos
However, Sidious' superiority lies within his pragmatism, and his ability to create monsters that he can exploit. In the Book of Sith he has explained that he knows the weaknesses of all beings he's manipulated through the dark side.

More then 3000 years ago, a sect of Jedi embraced the dark side of the Force and used its power to manipulate life itself. Fearful and horrified by such an abomination of the Force, the Jedi Order banished these dark Jedi. The exiles lashed back in a century-long conflict known as the Hundred-Year Darkness. (SWTORE, Page 108)

More then 3000 years ago, the Jedi Order faced civil war. Through the Force, a group of powerful Jedi had learned to shape the very substance of life, shaping it into a new species, or fearsome but loyal creatures. (SWTORE, Page 146)

Exar Kun, in particular, was renowned for his proficiency in Sith alchemy. He developed an army of Sithspawn to aid him in his war against the Republic.

Vitiate also gained great proficiency in Sith alchemy. He could also create monsters; Akure, the Beast of Darkness is a prominent example. In addition, he developed special machines which could do the unthinkable; one such machine could transform a normal individual into a virtually immortal being; another such machine could prevent a living being from aging and dying.

Originally posted by Dolos
Vitiate's alchemic skills and knowledge are inferior to the likes of Plagues in certain areas. Plagues bridged science and magic to manipulate the midi-chlorians to the results similar (immortality) to the feats performed by Vitiate through rituals. Luke explains in that same book that Plagues fails perhaps because he'd not achieved a certain level of oneness with the living Force's dark persona.

How do you think Vitiate transformed Scourge into a virtually immortal being?

"THE RITUAL IS ABOUT TO BEGIN," the Emperor intoned.

Scourge nodded, though even if he had wanted to refuse it was far too late now.

He was standing in the center of a cylindrical metal platform roughly two meters across. Dozens of wires and IV tubes had been hooked to his body. The wires were connected to several generators arranged in a circle around the platform, the IV tubes ran to clear vats filled with a strange green bubbling liquid.

They were still inside the citadel, but this private chamber was much smaller than the throne room. It was unfurnished and, apart from the Emperor, Scourge, and the infernal machinery he was hooked up to, completely empty. (SWTOR: Revan)

Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious saw that he could not match Plagues in that aspect, and if Plagues would fail to turn the Dark Side into a science, he should take only elements.

Sith alchemy involves coupling of scientific lore and dark side philosophy.

Originally posted by Dolos
Whereas Vitiate failed because he underestimated the Jedi,

The power of the dark side cannot be dispersed among the masses. It must be concentrated in the few who are worthy of the honor.

The strength of numbers was a trap . . . one that had snared all the great Sith Lords who had come before. Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Darth Revan: each had been powerful. Each had drawn disciples in, teaching them the ways of the dark side. Each had assembled an army of followers and unleashed them against the Jedi. Yet in each and every case the servants of light had prevailed.

The Jedi would always remain united in their cause. The Sith would always be brought low by infighting and betrayals. The very traits that drove them to individual greatness and glory-the unrelenting ambition, the insatiable hunger for power-would ultimately doom them as a whole. This was the inescapable paradox of the Sith. (Darth Bane: POD)

Scourge betrayed Vitiate and the latter suffered immense setback due to this.

Originally posted by Dolos
and where the Sith before him failed because they could not overpower the entire Jedi and Republic, and where his master failed for believing he could make it a simple empirical science, Sidious succeeded for being practical, for wanting results, for being more clever, calculating, and more aware than any of them.

As pointed out here:

The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.

While the Jedi-The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.

The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark's own weapon? (ROTS Novelization)

Brief history:

The first great conflict between the Republic and the Sith Empire occurred when two hyperspace explorers stumbled on the Sith worlds, giving the Sith Lord Naga Sadow and his dark side warriors a direct invasion route into the Republic’s central worlds. This war resulted in the first destruction of the Sith Empire—but it was hardly the last. For the next four thousand years, skirmishes between the Republic and Sith grew into wars, with the scales always tilting toward one or the other, and peace never lasting. The galaxy was a place of almost constant strife: Sith armies against Republic armies; Force-using Sith Lords against Jedi Masters and Jedi Knights; and the dreaded nomadic mercenaries called Mandalorians bringing muscle and firepower wherever they stood to gain.

Then, a thousand years before A New Hope and the Battle of Yavin, the Jedi defeated the Sith at the Battle of Ruusan, decimating the so-called Brotherhood of Darkness that was the heart of the Sith Empire—and most of its power.

One Sith Lord survived—Darth Bane—and his vision for the Sith differed from that of his predecessors. He instituted a new doctrine: No longer would the followers of the dark side build empires or amass great armies of Force-users. There would be only two Sith at a time: a Master and an apprentice. From that time on, the Sith remained in hiding, biding their time and plotting their revenge, while the rest of the galaxy enjoyed an unprecedented era of peace, so long and strong that the Republic eventually dismantled its standing armies.

But while the Republic seemed strong, its institutions had begun to rot. Greedy corporations sought profits above all else and a corrupt Senate did nothing to stop them, until the corporations reduced many planets to raw materials for factories and entire species became subjects for exploitation. Individual Jedi continued to defend the Republic's citizens and obey the will of the Force, but the Jedi Order to which they answered grew increasingly out of touch. And a new Sith mastermind, Darth Sidious, at last saw a way to restore Sith domination over the galaxy and its inhabitants, and quietly worked to set in motion the revenge of the Sith … (SWTOR: Revan)

Sidious was a Sith mastermind but not the only one in galactic history. Their were more; Vitiate; Revan; Bane. Sidious rose to power under very different circumstances then the others. Revan and Vitiate were felled by betrayals. Bane also proved to be a genius and he set the stage for arrival of Sidious.

Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious was the smartest, he would find a weakness in Vitiate.

Duplicate post.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Referring to the Hero of Tython's alleged status as "one of" the strongest figures the order has seen in centuries. A fine accolade no doubt, but nothing compared to others.

So I was perusing a previous thread and in it, you said that the HoT quote was that he was one of the most 'talented' figures. Not strongest. Which is correct if you don't mind me asking?

Talented.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate was great in many aspects. He was very strong in the Force:

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, [B]and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force. The boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. (SWTORE, Page 16)

I think that Vitiate had very high Midichlorian count.

Have you read Darth Plagueis?

There is a difference between Pneuma and Anima.

Vitiate's powers were the result of his innate prodigious talent in use of Sith Alchemy. You'd be hard pressed to convince an individual that Vitiate was born with a higher midi-chlorian count than the Chosen One, yet even Luke showed more prodigious development in esoteric capacity than his father.

It shall be noted that Sith Alchemy was a popular subject of dark arts in ancient times. Same was true for Sith sorcery also. Therefore, it was logical for Vitiate to focus on these popular subjects and hone his talents accordingly.

Indeed! He eventually reached a point that he could pull of Galaxy busting feat with adequate preparations. No other Sith gained so much knowledge in the dark arts to pull off this kind of feat.

This talent wasn't unique to Sidious:-

Sidious was quite aware how much more advanced the Ancient Sith Arcane Arts were. Syn was the greatest sorceress of the Dark Jedi and original Dark Lords - yet she learned much from the ancient Sith Kings, ascended from King Adas. They literally altered the pneuma of their species and subsequently they were more prodigious in the dark arts.

This is different than anima, as per direct combat the Sith possessed no higher midi-chlorians than, say Luke, yet their abilities were the result of mystic incantations, similar but not entirely the same as the methods of the Nighsisters and their Allyan magic thousands of years later. So therefore, less anima means less midi-chlorians, and with pure Force powers outside of their incantations they were very limited to those with higher anima, who possessed greater personal Force reservoirs.

More then 3000 years ago, a sect of Jedi embraced the dark side of the Force and used its power to manipulate life itself. Fearful and horrified by such an abomination of the Force, the Jedi Order banished these dark Jedi. The exiles lashed back in a century-long conflict known as the Hundred-Year Darkness. (SWTORE, Page 108)

More then 3000 years ago, the Jedi Order faced civil war. Through the Force, a group of powerful Jedi had learned to shape the very substance of life, shaping it into a new species, or fearsome but loyal creatures. (SWTORE, Page 146)

Exar Kun, in particular, was renowned for his proficiency in Sith alchemy. He developed an army of Sithspawn to aid him in his war against the Republic.

Vitiate also gained great proficiency in Sith alchemy. He could also create monsters; Akure, the Beast of Darkness is a prominent example. In addition, he developed special machines which could do the unthinkable; one such machine could transform a normal individual into a virtually immortal being; another such machine could prevent a living being from aging and dying.

Have you read SWTOR: Revan novel?

How do you think Vitiate transformed Scourge into a virtually immortal being?

That is indeed anima, but it was not achieved through Plagueis' methods, which were completely different. He dominated midi-chlorians to sustain his cells, and could sever the Force in other ways, and possibly siphon midi-chlorians and gain anima in this aspect as opposed to Vitiate's essence drain. Vitiate's eventual Force reservoir, lifespan and his anima, were only limitless after his ritual on Nathema, in which he added millions of lifespans and Force reservoirs to his own.

"THE RITUAL IS ABOUT TO BEGIN," the Emperor intoned.

Scourge nodded, though even if he had wanted to refuse it was far too late now.

He was standing in the center of a cylindrical metal platform roughly two meters across. Dozens of wires and IV tubes had been hooked to his body. The wires were connected to several generators arranged in a circle around the platform, the IV tubes ran to clear vats filled with a strange green bubbling liquid.

They were still inside the citadel, but this private chamber was much smaller than the throne room. It was unfurnished and, apart from the Emperor, Scourge, and the infernal machinery he was hooked up to, completely empty. (SWTOR: Revan)

Turn the dark side in to science?

Sith alchemy involves coupling of scientific lore and dark side philosophy.

That method is not concretely midi-chlorian manipulation, it could be some other unnatural mischief involving anima.

He failed because of multiple reasons; betrayal being one of them.

The power of the dark side cannot be dispersed among the masses. It must be concentrated in the few who are worthy of the honor.

The strength of numbers was a trap . . . one that had snared all the great Sith Lords who had come before. Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Darth Revan: each had been powerful. Each had drawn disciples in, teaching them the ways of the dark side. Each had assembled an army of followers and unleashed them against the Jedi. Yet in each and every case the servants of light had prevailed.

The Jedi would always remain united in their cause. The Sith would always be brought low by infighting and betrayals. The very traits that drove them to individual greatness and glory-the unrelenting ambition, the insatiable hunger for power-would ultimately doom them as a whole. This was the inescapable paradox of the Sith. (Darth Bane: POD)

Scourge betrayed Vitiate and the latter suffered immense setback due to this.

Yes, Sidious accomplished the objective of RoT lineage with his genius and skill. He is a top-tier Sith for multiple reasons. However, you are overlooking the role of ancient Sith in setting the stage for arrival of Sidious through RoT; Bane and Revan (indirectly). Bane was very intelligent as well and he CHANGED the tactics to deal with the threat of the Republic; he CHANGED the Sith.

As pointed out here:

The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.

While the Jedi-The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.

The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark's own weapon? (ROTS Novelization)

Brief history:

The first great conflict between the Republic and the Sith Empire occurred when two hyperspace explorers stumbled on the Sith worlds, giving the Sith Lord Naga Sadow and his dark side warriors a direct invasion route into the Republic’s central worlds. This war resulted in the first destruction of the Sith Empire—but it was hardly the last. For the next four thousand years, skirmishes between the Republic and Sith grew into wars, with the scales always tilting toward one or the other, and peace never lasting. The galaxy was a place of almost constant strife: Sith armies against Republic armies; Force-using Sith Lords against Jedi Masters and Jedi Knights; and the dreaded nomadic mercenaries called Mandalorians bringing muscle and firepower wherever they stood to gain.

Then, a thousand years before A New Hope and the Battle of Yavin, the Jedi defeated the Sith at the Battle of Ruusan, decimating the so-called Brotherhood of Darkness that was the heart of the Sith Empire—and most of its power.

One Sith Lord survived—Darth Bane—and his vision for the Sith differed from that of his predecessors. He instituted a new doctrine: No longer would the followers of the dark side build empires or amass great armies of Force-users. There would be only two Sith at a time: a Master and an apprentice. From that time on, the Sith remained in hiding, biding their time and plotting their revenge, while the rest of the galaxy enjoyed an unprecedented era of peace, so long and strong that the Republic eventually dismantled its standing armies.

But while the Republic seemed strong, its institutions had begun to rot. Greedy corporations sought profits above all else and a corrupt Senate did nothing to stop them, until the corporations reduced many planets to raw materials for factories and entire species became subjects for exploitation. Individual Jedi continued to defend the Republic's citizens and obey the will of the Force, but the Jedi Order to which they answered grew increasingly out of touch. And a new Sith mastermind, Darth Sidious, at last saw a way to restore Sith domination over the galaxy and its inhabitants, and quietly worked to set in motion the revenge of the Sith … (SWTOR: Revan)

Sidious was a Sith mastermind but not the only one in galactic history. Their were more; Vitiate; Revan; Bane. Sidious rose to power under very different circumstances then the others. Revan and Vitiate were felled by betrayals. Bane also proved to be a genius and he set the stage for arrival of Sidious.

Both were very smart. However, I don't understand that how Sidious would find a weakness in Vitiate in just one meeting? [/B]

This is basis of why Sidious would have grown more powerful than Vitiate if he'd Forced drained the galaxy, merely by inhabiting Anakin Solo. This is because, even in added a galaxy's worth of lifespans and Force reservoirs to oneself - the result is still finite. In Empire's End the final Palpatine Clone is shown using a Red Spirit Ichor, the Nightsisters and brothers, as well as the Shamans all used green Spirit Ichor - which came essentially from the Light Side. The fact that Palpatine was compelling the aperion of the dark side itself proves that his pneuma and anima and Force reservoir was potentially more infinite than Vitiate's.

This is in fact why he was able to create World Devastating Worm Holes connected to the netherworld of dark side aperion energies, while Vitiate with all his power could not.

Sidious, as per Dark Empire, possessed a deeper reservoir of dark side energy - this is without question in my mind.

If he'd inhabited Anakin Solo, there's no telling how much Oneness he'd achieve, and how much power the dark side would grant him.

While I admit it had nothing to do with Allyan magic, the energies he wielded were definitely the effects of an influence over the dark side one does not acquire by Force draining a lot of worlds and performing a lot of rituals. The dark has requisites, and will bestow its most potent and devote followers with the most power. It is an aspect of the living Force, the aperion.

You yourself admitted that Sidious was a more dangerous Sith than any other. Abeloth was perhaps stronger than all of them put together, yet she got beat back by relative wimps because she sucked, Nihilus could Force drain anything...but then all of a sudden he's encounters another wound in the Force and poof! He sucks.

The dark side bestows more pneuma, anima, through direct aperion influence, upon those most capable of carrying on its malevolent influence over the denizens of the corporeal world.

During the Clone Wars, Sidious caused a lot of choas. Corrupting Anakin in and of itself during his battle with Windu most likely gave him access to a greater reservoir of power.

The Force is more esoteric than you realize. Sorcerer focuses on the pneuma aspect, retaining consciousness after death, overpowering the wills of others, draining life essences. Anima is one's reserve and ability to withstand their powers as well. With more anima greater acts of power can be achieved. Not necessarily advanced acts like Force drain, but maybe a stronger Force push or a higher jump.

Ultimately it was aperion, acting through the will of the Dark Side, and getting results, that made Sidious more powerful in the Force than the rest.

One more thing I'd like to point out.

You like to use Sidious' struggles with Luke Skywalker and Leia, and compare them to Vitiate dominating three extremely power Force wielders as well as a Droid.

Comparing these battles is erroneous, instead you should compare Sidious' second duel against Luke with Vitiate's battle against the Hero of Tython. As the Sith Emperor's powers were scattered in preparation for a ritual, so too were Sidious' in preparation for a Force storm, far more powerful.

And then I'd like assert that Sidious was a far more capable Sorceror in combat than what we've ever witnessed save in his battle with Yoda, the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, and Galen Marek, the martyr who helped form the Rebel Alliance. Sidious never went ham on anyone else, instead preferring to put his wits to the test in pure lightsaber duels. He managed to best Maul and his brother, he bested three Jedi very easily and ultimately lost to Mace Windu, and he bested Luke Skywalker the first time around but was bested himself the second due to Skywalker's prodigious adaptability in lightsaber combat.

Sidious' full power by DE allowed him to toy with Leia, and would have allowed him to toy with Luke as well.

@Dolos

I admire your "esoteric" debating skills. 😉

Originally posted by Dolos
Have you read Darth Plagueis?

Originally posted by Dolos
There is a difference between Pneuma and Anima.

Vitiate's powers were the result of his innate prodigious talent in use of Sith Alchemy.

Yes, he gained proficiency in Sith Alchemy as well but it was more like a hobby for him.

Originally posted by Dolos
You'd be hard pressed to convince an individual that Vitiate was born with a higher midi-chlorian count than the Chosen One, yet even Luke showed more prodigious development in esoteric capacity than his father.

Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious was quite aware how much more advanced the Ancient Sith Arcane Arts were. Syn was the greatest sorceress of the Dark Jedi and original Dark Lords - yet she learned much from the ancient Sith Kings, ascended from King Adas. They literally altered the pneuma of their species and subsequently they were more prodigious in the dark arts.

Originally posted by Dolos
This is different than anima, as per direct combat the Sith possessed no higher midi-chlorians than, say Luke, yet their abilities were the result of mystic incantations, similar but not entirely the same as the methods of the Nighsisters and their Allyan magic thousands of years later. So therefore, less anima means less midi-chlorians, and with pure Force powers outside of their incantations they were very limited to those with higher anima, who possessed greater personal Force reservoirs.

For example: Malak - with his knowledge of Sith Alchemy - managed to create a large supply of Force reserves for himself to augment his fighting ability in the Star Forge. He could utilize this (artificially created) supply of Force reserves on the basis of his naturally learned dark powers (e.g. Force Drain) to make it possible for him to duel for a prolonged period.

And of-course, their are several other examples.

Originally posted by Dolos
That is indeed anima, but it was not achieved through Plagueis' methods, which were completely different. He dominated midi-chlorians to sustain his cells, and could sever the Force in other ways, and possibly siphon midi-chlorians and gain anima in this aspect as opposed to Vitiate's essence drain. Vitiate's eventual Force reservoir, lifespan and his anima, were only limitless after his ritual on Nathema, in which he added millions of lifespans and Force reservoirs to his own.

If I remember correctly, midi-chlorians were discovered much later during the Star Wars history?

Originally posted by Dolos
That method is not concretely midi-chlorian manipulation, it could be some other unnatural mischief involving anima.