DE Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Started by Nephthys28 pages

Originally posted by Dolos
One more thing I'd like to point out.

You like to use Sidious' struggles with Luke Skywalker and Leia, and compare them to Vitiate dominating three extremely power Force wielders as well as a Droid.

Comparing these battles is erroneous, instead you should compare Sidious' second duel against Luke with Vitiate's battle against the Hero of Tython. As the Sith Emperor's powers were scattered in preparation for a ritual, so too were Sidious' in preparation for a Force storm, far more powerful.

A Force Storm is more powerful than a ritual that can wipe out the galaxy?

Also, given the ease with which Sidious proclaims he can conjure Storms, I doubt his powers were affected. I believe the phrase he uses is that he needs 'mere thought and inclination' to do it.

Originally posted by Dolos
This is basis of why Sidious would have grown more powerful than Vitiate if he'd Forced drained the galaxy, merely by inhabiting Anakin Solo.

Read this;

Should he succeed his plans, the Emperor will conquer death itself and become the most powerful being in all of galactic history. (SWTORE, Page 160)

Vitiate's ultimate plan was to transform himself in to a omnipotent godlike being with the capability to create the space matter himself. No one can get better then this and no Sith in history possessed sufficient knowledge of the dark arts to make this kind of transformation possible barring Vitiate himself.

Read more about his ultimate plan here: http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/the-emperors-plan-knight/324/

Originally posted by Dolos
This is because, even in added a galaxy's worth of lifespans and Force reservoirs to oneself - the result is still finite.

Good point! Vitiate sought to address this matter through his ultimate plan. Fortunately for all, he was stopped.

Originally posted by Dolos
In Empire's End the final Palpatine Clone is shown using a Red Spirit Ichor, the Nightsisters and brothers, as well as the Shamans all used green Spirit Ichor - which came essentially from the Light Side. The fact that Palpatine was compelling the aperion of the dark side itself proves that his pneuma and anima and Force reservoir was potentially more infinite than Vitiate's.

Sidious certainly maintained a huge reservoir of Force reserves for himself from Byss? Vitiate did something similar for himself form Nathema. Difference is that Sidious was siphoning energies of living individuals whereas Vitiate was siphoning energies of (mostly) souls he trapped.

I have a question though: When Sidious ventured outside Byss, could he maintain his huge reservoir of Force reserves? If he could do so then this explains that how he was able to unleash Force Storm at will.

Originally posted by Dolos
This is in fact why he was able to create World Devastating Worm Holes connected to the netherworld of dark side aperion energies, while Vitiate with all his power could not.

Sidious's supply of Force reserves was based on billions of living individuals, which is ridiculously high number.

Though keep in mind that much of the Vitiate's capabilities are shrouded in mystery.

Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious, as per Dark Empire, possessed a deeper reservoir of dark side energy - this is without question in my mind.

If he'd inhabited Anakin Solo, there's no telling how much Oneness he'd achieve, and how much power the dark side would grant him.


Sidious wanted to acquire Anakin Solo because he wanted a durable body for himself; clones were a temporary arrangement. Solo's body wouldn't have increased his personal power but would have been good enough for his bodily requirements.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A Force Storm is more powerful than a ritual that can wipe out the galaxy?

Oh by far, that ritual required mass extinction to influence aperion ( dark side energies) to provide him with the necessary pneuma to absorb the collective anima of everything and everyone in the galaxy.

Sidious' influence was already there for generating planet-surface eradicating energy, as opposed to galactic life-Force eradicating energy.

Also, given the ease with which Sidious proclaims he can conjure Storms, I doubt his powers were affected. I believe the phrase he uses is that he needs 'mere thought and inclination' to do it.

Pneuma. Influenced by aperion, it transcends the limits of an individual's anima - which is all Vitiate or anything else would collect from others via essence drain.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Read this;

Should he succeed his plans, the Emperor will conquer death itself and become the most powerful being in all of galactic history. (SWTORE, Page 160)

Vitiate's ultimate plan was to transform himself in to a omnipotent godlike being with the capability to create the space matter himself. No one can get better then this and no Sith in history possessed sufficient knowledge of the dark arts to make this kind of transformation possible barring Vitiate himself.

What???

"Knowledge in the dark side" is pneuma, which is the power of one's essence in this sense, separate from, and transcendental to, their midi-chlorian counts/anima.

Anyway, the Dark Empire Sourcebook writes this:

As soon as Skywalker’s dream of conquering the Darkness from within was crushed, the next
stage in his training began. Fully under Palpatine’s
power, the boy would make a worthy disciple, as
would his sister and her children in time. Perhaps
he would enter the new unborn life and regain real
flesh, but he would need preparation first. With
the knowledge gained from his Dark Side Compendium, he would create an eternal dynasty, with
the descendants of Skywalker as its nobility, and
Palpatine himself as its omnipotent ruler.

As Plagueis explains, it is not easy to dominate a being with a greater amount of midi-chlorians, you'd have to dominate the midi-chlorians for them to allow acceptance.

"READ THIS." 😛

Good point! Vitiate sought to address this matter through his ultimate plan. Fortunately for all, he was stopped.

And yet he never matched Sidious' accomplishments, he was less clever and ultimately possessed less influence over the dark side, and his spirit possessed less power because of it.

Sidious certainly maintained a huge reservoir of Force reserves for himself from Byss? Vitiate did something similar for himself form Nathema. Difference is that Sidious was siphoning energies of living individuals whereas Vitiate was siphoning energies of (mostly) souls he trapped.

Whereas Sidious absorbed MORE life because he took a lot less from more WAAY MORE subjects. He literally coordinated an overpopulation of Byss' inhabitants, "drawing travelers to become denizens of Byss' capital city" and consumed these life forces over a six year period of a time, whilst commanding immigrants for an increasing population to benefit from.

When the Emperor chose this world for his
private reserve, no expense was spared. His personal architectural staff was granted carte blanche
to build a citadel to Palpatine’s hubris. Slaves and
machinery were brought by the specially trained
space pilots using encoded astrogation systems
to reach Byss. It took years, but soon the planet
gleamed with oddly shaped and ornate towers and
complexes.
Of course, this world was not to be only
for Palpatine’s use. Quite the contrary: enormous
leisure and habitation complexes were included in
the original designs. Incredulous as the designers
were, his orders were obeyed. Soon, enormous cities and resorts spread across the planet. Little
could they suspect the true purpose behind this
largess — Palpatine planned for millions to permanently reside here, where he and his minions
could use their Dark Side skills to feed off their life
energy.
Accordingly, a legend was created. A legend
of a mystic siren world, whose surreal shores and
glimmering oceans held the promise of contentment unattainable anywhere else. Millions applied
for visas to this mysterious world, but few ever
suspected Byss lay in the Deep Core itself.
Meanwhile, Imperial Intelligence painstakingly sifted innumerable dossiers to find those
most suited to the Emperor’s needs. Of these, a few
million per month were chosen and transported to
Byss in secret.
Upon arrival at Byss, they live out the rest
of their lives in harmless amusements and pageants. All communications to loved ones are censored to perpetuate the myth and secrecy of this
distant world

Compounding this, Vitiate never displayed the influence over the dark side necessary for something like dark side wormholes that tapped into its infinite aperion. Sidious wasn't even drained from it. He just did it instantly, without a ritual. Now that's a command over the dark side only Nihilus came close to. Nihilus was eventually able to Force drain a planet of his own volition instantly and without effort. And Nihilus was more parasitic in nature than any of the others. A wound that deep happened to pull more immediate pneuma from aperion than Vitiate, and Sidious more so than that. Sorry.

I have a question though: When Sidious ventured outside Byss, could he maintain his huge reservoir of Force reserves? If he could do so then this explains that how he was able to unleash Force Storm at will.

Yes, he could.

Yes, the energies of the Force are explained as aperion, normally a sentient's physical form interacts with this energy field through anima by willing the midi-chlorians. But a command that becomes apart of that sentient's very essence, transcendental to it's anima, is known as it's pnuema. This is explained in the Darth Plagueis Novel and in the Book of Sith.

Sidious's supply of Force reserves was based on billions of living individuals, which is ridiculously high number.

Exponentially more than Vitiate to be assured.

Though keep in mind that much of the Vitiate's capabilities are shrouded in mystery.

More vagueness than mystery. Although it doesn't take much to put two and two together.

Sidious wanted to acquire Anakin Solo because he wanted a durable body for himself; clones were a temporary arrangement. Solo's body wouldn't have increased his personal power but would have been good enough for his bodily requirements.

That was only AFTER he traveled to Korriban to seek other solutions. The Oracle Stone, which literally communes with the dark side itself, wished it. Perhaps because as a Skywalker, the most important element of the Rebellion, Sidious would be at a massive strategical advantage. Thus the dark side would compensate, aperion energies would flood Sidious' pnuema, increasing his powers greater than Vitiate's Force ritual which would ultimately leave the dark side's power over the light side stagnant as opposed to Sidious' alternative progressive improvement in the dark side's power over the light side.

Sidious will always be the greatest Sith in history. In both power and success. He was practical, and because of that he turned out more results than plotting, forceful military might, or inquired speculations.

If Sidious were to be inside a Skywalker, the one keeping what little balance there was between the light side's aperion and the dark side's aperion after the Dark Times; the dark side's superiority would be assured, and thus it would compensate with the FULL profit that employed Sidious to its service in the first place -

YouTube video

lol

Except, unlike Vitiate annihilating everyone, allowing the light side refuge until he could rebuild and perhaps spread the dark side elsewhere (other galaxies); Sidious would be in a better position as he could do so without rebuilding a massive magocratic Imperial Force of nature, as he'd already have it at his disposal.

Even without going into the supernatural and relying directly on essence drain to fuel pneuma or one's personal Force reservoir, stolen from others', as I kinda did with the Byss Vs Nathema - Palpatine still has Vitiate beat.

Vitiate consumes the galaxy's populace at once, Palpatine consumes a little bit but not enough to end any life. The next day trillions of more sentient organics are born, and Palpatine takes a little from their pool. Next day another trillion. In a few years, Palpatine's more powerful than Vitiate again. Meanwhile Palpatine's already well on his way into establishing extra-galactic conquests, whereas Vitiate is still amassing a force for such a thing.

Wow, Palpatine FTW.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A Force Storm is more powerful than a ritual that can wipe out the galaxy?

How do we know that if the ritual worked, that it would have wiped out the entire galaxy? Where is the quote?

BTW, Star Wars: The Comics Companion says that Palpatine's force storm threatened to consume "all of space."

Originally posted by Dolos
Oh by far, that ritual required mass extinction to influence aperion ( dark side energies) to provide him with the necessary pneuma to absorb the collective anima of everything and everyone in the galaxy.

Sidious' influence was already there for generating planet-surface eradicating energy, as opposed to galactic life-Force eradicating energy.

Pneuma. Influenced by aperion, it transcends the limits of an individual's anima - which is all Vitiate or anything else would collect from others via essence drain.

God. You talk like such a douche.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
How do we know that if the ritual worked, that it would have wiped out the entire galaxy? Where is the quote?

BTW, Star Wars: The Comics Companion says that Palpatine's force storm threatened to consume "all of space."

The Jedi Knight Act 3 intro says that it will, so yeah it would have.

Thats stupid and obviously non-canon.

Nicely put, Neph.

Yes, this member also has approached borderline idiocy in his recent responses. I will address them soon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
God. You talk like such a douche.

Great, thanks for that irrelevant and unneccessary (and innaccurate) addendum.

Perhaps its because I've read swtor: revan, Darth plagueis, plus the various summaries offered by various encyclopedias - and my terminology displays a larger knowledge pertaining to this aspect of the EU.

Or maybe its all the pretension.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or maybe its all the pretension.

Well Im sorry for being careless with the subtlety of expressing my ideas favorably.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats stupid and obviously non-canon.

I agree it is stupid, but so is a ritual that will consume all of the galaxy, so if we consider one as non-canon, then we should consider the other as well.

And did the intro say that it would have, or that Vitiate planned for it to?

Good find about the Force Storm consuming all of space.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I agree it is stupid, but so is a ritual that will consume all of the galaxy, so if we consider one as non-canon, then we should consider the other as well.

And did the intro say that it would have, or that Vitiate planned for it to?

No, its stupid because an attack that has only ever been shown as powerful enough to destroy a planets surface suddenly being powerful enough to destroy all of space is retarded beyond reason.

I don't know, I can't read it anymore since I've finished the storyline. Its something like 'The Emperor prepares a ritual that will destroy all life. Jedi Knight Sehkmet must race to stop him' or whatever.

Yup. I would post the full quote, but I no longer have the book, but I believe I've posted it, along with the page number, here years ago.

But I remember the quote saying something like "the force storm threatened to consume all of space."

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, its stupid because an attack that has only ever been shown as powerful enough to destroy a planets surface suddenly being powerful enough to destroy all of space is retarded beyond reason.

The storm was said to threaten to consume all of space. What it's only been shown to do is irrelevant.

Vitiate's rituals has only been shown to consume an entire planet. Suddenly being able to consume a galaxy is retarded beyond reason as well.

Why should we dismiss one statement, but not the other?

Thats a false comparison because it isn't the same ritual, whereas Sidious is still using the same technique. Plus its explained why Vitiates ritual is so powerful; because its fueled by countless deaths across the galaxy.

And yeah, 'threatened' isn't the same as actually being able to do it. Nihilus 'threatened' to destroy the Force eventually, but he couldn't actually do it all in one go. I just can't be asked to write a big logical response atm.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats a false comparison because it isn't the same ritual, whereas Sidious is still using the same technique. Plus its explained why Vitiates ritual is so powerful; because its fueled by countless deaths across the galaxy.

Palpatine not needing a ritual to do greater things than Vitiate, doesn't mean we can dismiss it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And yeah, 'threatened' isn't the same as actually being able to do it. Nihilus 'threatened' to destroy the Force eventually, but he couldn't actually do it all in one go. I just can't be asked to write a big logical response atm.

Except that Palpatine's force storm was in the process of doing so. The storm he unleashed over Pinnacle base was the storm that threatened to consume all of space, but Palpatine was stopped, just like Vitiate's ritual was stopped.