DE Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Started by Lord Lucien28 pages

Gideon's not biased. He's just enthusiastic and full of spunk.

Gideon always seemed biased to me, IMHO. Hopelessly so, in fact. Remember when he'd criticize Revan? Signs of intense hatred, I reckon. Thank God this place had the likes of Janus and tdtd around to keep us in the proper perspective.

Oh hai the tdtd references are back! I missed those unsupported assertions for years.

Unsupported assertions? No, tdtd was in fact a real and active poster here. Even now I find his insights and arguments most persuasive. Too bad he was banned.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Unsupported assertions? No, tdtd was in fact a real and active poster here. Even now I find his insights and arguments most persuasive. Too bad he was banned.
That's... Sad..

That he was banned? Yes, it was. A tragedy of sorts. To know that we'll never again hear from him or know his latest insights in the realm of Star Wars? That he no longer has a presence here? I mean, doesn't that bother you?

Re: DE Sidious vs Sith Emperor

Originally posted by Kotor3
All out.
Vitiate wins, hands down. He Nathema and destroyed Revan and Malak. Granted, he surprised him, but that's still a consideralbe acomplishment.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious.

Remember, the Sith Emporer defeated Revan(and Malak) 😛 . He'd destroy Sidious.

Oh great another Bioware fanboy...

Oh great another PT era fanboy.

Originally posted by zoom3
Remember, the Sith Emporer defeated Revan(and Malak) 😛 . He'd destroy Sidious.

While impressive no doubt, this is not enough to give Vitiate a clear advantage over Sidious. Vitiate defeated Revan and Malak through telepathic domination, which they were unprepared against, and an area in which their proficiency is not known. Sidious is however very skilled and powerful in the realms of telepathy, so unfortunately the concept that Vitiate would be able to replicate his victory over Revan and Malak in regards to Sidious is at best unsupportable, and at worst simply absurd.

okay, first of all, the novel makes it very very much sound like vitiate had his security wipe out the 9 sith of his council. considering how much trouble both scourge and the exile have with only two security members each, this is entirely plausible...

so then I have to ask: what did Vitiate ever do that would even begin to put him on Sidious's level? Living a long time through ritual isn't exactly a "most powerful" feat.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Oh great another PT era fanboy.

Please... I'm an OT fanboy.

Originally posted by truejedi
okay, first of all, the novel makes it very very much sound like vitiate had his security wipe out the 9 sith of his council. considering how much trouble both scourge and the exile have with only two security members each, this is entirely plausible...

Yeah, I don't recall it ever saying he did so either... But then again I tried to read through this trash as quickly as possible to get it over with.

Originally posted by truejedi
okay, first of all, the novel makes it very very much sound like vitiate had his security wipe out the 9 sith of his council. considering how much trouble both scourge and the exile have with only two security members each, this is entirely plausible...

No, it makes it sound like the security teams took care of Nyriss. The fact that he invited the remaining sith lords into his private chambers, and none came out, makes it pretty obvious he somehow killed them himself.

so then I have to ask: what did Vitiate ever do that would even begin to put him on Sidious's level? Living a long time through ritual isn't exactly a "most powerful" feat.

His domination of wills is unparalleled in the mythos. He did it to hundreds of sith. He also had an extra thousand years to hone his powers.

would you like the quote? Because it sounds nothing like you just said. it sounds very much like they were wiped out by his security. the book is downstairs. i can post it if you would like.

Sure, but I have the book.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
His domination of wills is unparalleled in the mythos. He did it to hundreds of sith. He also had an extra thousand years to hone his powers.

And you can prove that he did this huh? Kekekeke.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
His domination of wills is unparalleled in the mythos. He did it to hundreds of sith. He also had an extra thousand years to hone his powers.

He failed to dominate Revan's will a second time, so there is no way he would be able to dominate Darth Sidious' will. Sidious is at least on par with Vitiate in mental abilities, being able to mind-screw millions of Coruscanti, and then later mentally dominate an entire planet with a population of about 20 billion. And if you want to use rituals, well prior to the events of ROTS, Sidious used a ritual that manipulated the anxieties of probably every force user in the galaxy, and also served to increase Anakin's hunger for power.

I don't see any way for Vitiate to win. I would be willing to say someone like Darth Bane would give Sidious more of a challenge in combat then Vitiate. Vitiate does not have any saber feats, and has probably never even used one in combat.

Originally posted by truejedi
would you like the quote? Because it sounds nothing like you just said. it sounds very much like they were wiped out by his security. the book is downstairs. i can post it if you would like.

Don't worry. Here it is:

"The Imperial Guard were only unleashed on Nyriss and two others. The Emperor must have assumed they were the ones least likely to answer his summons. The other nine were called together in the hours before the attack to meet with the Emperor at his citadel. None of them left alive." (Lord Scourge to Revan)

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He failed to dominate Revan's will a second time, so there is no way he would be able to dominate Darth Sidious' will.

Your point is flawed.

Lord Vitiate did not exactly failed to dominate Revan's will during the second encounter. He did no get the chance to do so because the Jedi Master stopped him in the process by overwhelming him through a special feat with the Force. Revan understood that how potent mental capabilities of Lord Vitiate were and he was prepared this time.

Any opponent who is not familiar with the capabilities of Lord Vitiate is in for a rude surprise.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sidious is at least on par with Vitiate in mental abilities, being able to mind-screw millions of Coruscanti, and then later mentally dominate an entire planet with a population of about 20 billion. And if you want to use rituals, well prior to the events of ROTS, Sidious used a ritual that manipulated the anxieties of probably every force user in the galaxy, and also served to increase Anakin's hunger for power.

Read this:

"The Emperor has the ability to dominate and enslave the minds of those who serve him," she explained.

"It's one of the reasons he has ruled for so long. Those that are transformed become fanatical zealots who live to serve; they are not capable of betraying him."

She glanced back at the door behind which they had left the Jedi. "I suspect that instead of executing Revan as he publicly proclaimed, the Emperor turned him into a puppet of his will and sent him back to the Republic to gather information."

What you don't realize is that Lord Vitiate has developed the capability to use his mental abilities as a WEAPON against his opponents in combat situations. He could break wills of even powerful opponents regardless of numbers. He is also capable of creating illusions in combat situations.

Sidious has never demonstrated the capability to dominate minds of powerful opponents in single combat. And neither he has created illusions in combat situations, as per my knowledge. He is not on level of Lord Vitiate in this aspect of the Force.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I don't see any way for Vitiate to win. I would be willing to say someone like Darth Bane would give Sidious more of a challenge in combat then Vitiate. Vitiate does not have any saber feats, and has probably never even used one in combat.

Lord Vitiate is far ahead of Darth Bane. He is capable of unleashing the full power of the dark side and dominate several powerful opponents simultaneously. Don't make absurd claims.

Yes, we don't know anything about Lord Vitiate's skills with the lightsaber. He is so powerful in the Force that he does not needs them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Any opponent who is not familiar with the capabilities of Lord Vitiate is in for a rude surprise.

Luckily Sidious has probably the largest knowledge base in the mythos. And given how much he stole from Vitiates Empire, I'd say that he is quite well versed in the TOR era.