Kratos ,Dante ,War(Ds) Alex Mercer vs Kain & Raziel

Anyway, my point with bringing up these videos is demonstrating actual limits across various showings. And to show how much your calc COMPLETELY flies in the face of the entirety of the series' visual demonstrations of limitations within the canon. It's a joke. To say you are disregarding proportionality, would be a vast understatement. Kain claims as late as even Defiance that he has a weakness to water (like most other vampires), and is inflicted negatively by Moebius' staff the same as any other vampire...and yet...he is the only vampire that can tank a nuke according to you. Brilliant. 🙂 Your claim's strength depends on your capability to completely handwave every showing not to your liking (in which there's A LOT. This verse is not feat heavy by ANY stretch of the imagination) as disregardable low showings (and certain things can be, to be fair), refusing to come to an average, sticking only to a clear high demonstration, and then distorting the f*ck out of that high showing with a non-sensical calc--not only that, you will THEN turn around and focus and try to embellish what would be low showings in OTHER rival characters(as seen with Ghirahim and Bowser threads). This is standard fare in fan-debates, but you definitely take it to the highest level of despicability that I've personally seen. I don't think it gets any worse than your demonstrations. But apparently, I'M the one with issues of 'blindness' and 'bias'. right.

You realize how crazy a ****ing slippery slope this whole thing creates. If Raz's claws are creating 800x earth core pressure on his claw tips, how could Kain even kick that lock and it not shatter immediately? How could Raz even tip over that obelisk without his claws piercing right in their bottom with his hundreds of times earth core durability having claws? How could Raz and Kain even pull around those large blocks without them simply pulling chunks out of them--seeing as they sure as hell won't be durable enough to offer resistance for their backwards curvature claws when they are pulling back (would be like trying to pull a very large cake with your fingers stuck in them). Perhaps the lock and obelisk were made of something really tough like neutronium! Perhaps that's why they weren't pierced! And as for the blocks not getting chunks ripped out of 'em? Eh. Surely you can chalk this up as an 'acceptable break from reality'. But wait! The lock and the obelisk CAN'T be made of neutronium as they would weigh like quadrillions of tons and sink into the Earth's core. 🙂 And as for 'acceptable break from reality'? Well that would be all fine and well, but unfortunately you are trying to use REAL numbers and compare them to known phenomena from REALITY, just to appraise what ONE feat could translate to in REALITY. Therefore, f*ck that, you get no courtesy with such blatant hypocrisy. 🙂

Face it genius, the calc falls flat on its face entirely. It was a brand new toy for you, and you paraded around with it, but unfortunately no one was impressed by it. And this metaphorical toy might as well have been something made of soft clay. As people can metaphorically snatch it out of your hands, pull out chunks from it, and make their own little toys from it to mock you. 🙂 Which is exactly what has happened here; HEY GUYS! Star Core pressure per square meter for any character of at least class 20 strength, human level speed, and a bladed weapon thinner than Raz's claws! Whoop Whoop! 🙂
Calcs are nice and all, when they are provably consistent with the canon, this wasn't. Let it go. Let it die. Even Amy Hennig
would find your claims to be the ravings of a delusional mad man.

This was over the moment I posted the Air Reaver video, since it is meant to be a feat that is vital for plot progession, as Raziel needed its level of power to proceed, and it happens in the same game that Kain supposedly has this supposed 'star core pressure durability per meter'. lol.

Now. As for the whole event that started all of this, let us address it. Raziel did NOT hurt Kain only once. He hurt him TWICE. He actually hurt him THREE times before SR2's opening retold and the ending of SR1 which it obviously picked up from.

Let's post it all the relevant confrontations first for everyone to see again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LulD2kar9I
^3:50-3:57. Raziel strikes Kain, and Kain screams out in pain and grabs his face. That's hurting someone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENosWOAWUgo
^5:05-5:35. SR1's ending. Kain walks away into the time stream limping from his fight with Raziel. But this is of course
Retconned by this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4S1i5-F8Sg&feature=related
^Obviously, the intro of Soul Reaver 2 retold Soul Reaver 1's ending, and thus it acted as a retcon. Here Kain does not
limp away hurt, but gets away unscathed despite taking 3 hits from Raziel.

And of course the infamous Defiance fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByYWsAcTX3Y
^Raziel slashes at Kain with the wraith blade, and then proceeds to rip the Heart of Darkness out of Kain.

Firstly, let's address the Soul Reaver 2 intro, as this is the event that you derived this whole crazy durability level for Kain. For this intro, you are stretching the usage of the word retcon. It retcons what it directly conflicts with, and nothing more. Thus all it does is retcon's SR1's ending. The first fight from SR1, where Raziel clearly makes Kain groan in pain, is completely in-tact until proven otherwise. Raziel recalls their first fight in SR2, how Kain broke the 'Blood' Reaver against him at the end of it, and that is exactly what happened and as such seeing as we have no other information about the fight, its portrayal stays in-tact. You are trying to create a contradiction where there isn't explicitly one at all; Kain didn't grunt in pain from Raziel's few seconds of attack whereas he did grunt in pain at the end of the first SR1 fight. All I would have to say in regards to you trying to create some big contradiction between the two, is that the first SR1 fight surely took place longer than a few seconds. That is the only justification I would have to make.

The SR2 fight, did NOT suddenly 'retcon kain's durability' to a higher level. No. Who's interpretation is the more sound one between mine and yours? Mine is. Because it only addresses what is there to see, and thus it is the simpler explanation. Yours, is more convuluted and seeks to spread whatever supposed new knowledge was gained, across multiple spans of the past and when rewound back to what the implications could mean, it simply does not hold up. Your explanation holds more assumptions, thus it has a higher likelihood of failure.

Raziel manages to make Kain groan in pain from his claws in one fight, and doesn't manage to do so in the few seconds of attack from a future fight. No contradiction. Nothing here that alters the flow of the history/story or anything like that. They were simply two different fights, and they played out differently. Nothing more, nothing less. My explanation is simpler. Occam's Razor wins again. No retcon between SR2's intro and SR1's first kain fight.

Now, let us address the Defiance fight. Where Raziel DOES once again manage to hurt Kain with his claws, this time quite badly as he stabs into him instead of taking horizontal swipes with his strongly curved in claws.

You've argued that Raziel only manages to stab into Kain because he 'weakened' him first with the reaver. Let's outline what you could mean, in a mix of any of the following;

1. You could be arguing that being struck by the Soul Reaver lowers Kain's durability somehow.
2. You could be arguing that the blood loss from the Reaver strike lowered Kain's durability somehow.
3. You could be arguing that Raziel created a soft spot a for him to drive his claws through to get the heart.

Well firstly, there is no such statement anywhere that being struck with the Soul Reaver lowers Kain's durability. Nowhere.
Secondly, we know blood loss does not lower a vampire's durability, and you basically agreed when you talked about Raziel's options with the Dumahim. If blood loss did lower their durability, then surely he would be able to rip at them for awhile with his claws until they finally lost enough blood to be soft enough to rip in half or some such, but that obviously never happens. As Umah says in BO2, drinking blood grows your health and keeps you strong, so all blood loss does is weaken vampires physically, it does not make their skin, muscles, bones etc any softer. And this basically works the same with the Reaver, if a Reaver strike makes Kain weaker, then that's all its doing, making him weaker due to the blow and its obvious effects like blood loss etc. That's not equivalent to saying his durability somehow gets lowered. As for the third option, that Raziel created a soft spot for his claws to drive through, no, it does not work. Firstly, because the strike wasn't even large enough for them to even bother making a texture showing Kain with any noticeable slash mark on him (yet they clearly bothered to make a new texture for the hole in his chest as we'll see). So therefore, it clearly wasn't a large wound. And since it wasn't even large enough to create a graphic for the damage, it doesn't matter since the wound is clearly much smaller than the width of Raziel's hands. Only if it made a huge gouge that more or less encompassed the width of Raz's hand could the argument be made that Kain was softened up before Raz dipped in. And finally...the place that Kain grabbed in pain after the Reaver strike was NOT the same place that Raz plunged his claws into. See these screens caps:

As you can see, Kain is clearly favoring his lower abs and side with his left hand, and you can even see the red mist around his side and obscuring his claws a bit. That's blood, and that's indicating that he's bleeding from that area. You can even see this more clearly in motion itself, since the video I linked to is high quality to begin with, and it has a 720p option as well. Now, where did Raziel strike Kain with his claws? What I showed above is the clearest view of the hole in Kain after Raziel ripped the heart out, and as we can see the darkest/deepest part of the wound is CLEARLY through his chest. So there we go, Raziel slashed Kain to his right side, around the ribs. And Raziel plunged his hand through Kain's CHEST. No softening up going on here. None whatsoever.

On the other hand, Raziel's status within the event is CONCLUSIVELY known. He was weakened. A weakened Raziel plunged into Kain's chest. How do we know he was weakened as his soul and the wraith blade was being siphoned off to Kain and the 'blood' reaver? One, because it should be obvious, since he was fading in and out of existence in the Defiance scene, and because he said so here in SR2 when the conjoined blades turned on him, 8:23; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DkkoFhG3SQ&feature=related
"I felt myself weakening..." And further more, going back to Kain's status a bit, even if we somehow assumed one or more of the above 3 hypothetical factors were true after being struck by the wraith blade, it would have been entirely temporary as we KNOW Raziel being absorbed into the 'Blood' Reaver heals Kain while he wields it, because we see it being stated and happening, here at 5:39-6:47. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDANlR9D-Es&feature=related "...and the Scion of Balance, is healed." And we know 'healed' is not just some ambiguous meaning like 'healed of corruption' and such, because as we see at the end at 6:47, the hole in Kain's chest is gone. Good as new. And the hole was there just minutes before when he killed Moebius within the same cutscene/video.

In closing, we KNOW conclusively that Raziel was weakening when he stabbed Kain with his claws and ripped the heart out, and we know that there is nothing but unwarranted speculation to say Kain was negatively affected in a manner that made it easier for Raziel to stab into him--and that if there WAS a negative effect, it would have been minor, and healed anyway, by the fact that its stated and shown that Raziel being absorbed into the Reaver heals the Scion of Balance, which is what Kain is.

If you want to call PIS on the whole thing now, TOO BAD. You can't. Raziel doesn't exactly have a lot of showings against Kain, and the other ones were too short and trivial to the plot to matter; E.G. it didn't matter at all to the plot whether Raziel actually managed to hurt Kain in those earlier showings or not, but this one in Defiance is simply FAR too monumental to the plot to wave off, not to mention it IS the most recent--and thus if you really want to use the 'retconned durability' argument for Kain in SR2's intro, then you sure as f*ck can't say no if someone said this Defiance scene 're-retconned' his durability.

Now...let's talk about God of War again for a moment. You wanted me to prove that the volcanic eruption that Kratos tanked was greater than Earth's core pressure? Why? What's the point when we know your math means nothing as is?
But fine, I'll go about addressing its plausibility without going in-depth. Nukes can surpass the earth's core pressure. stratovolcanos tend to outdo nukes in output (e.g. krakatoa was five times more powerful than the tsar bomb and it wasn't even the most powerful eruption in history) while at the same time being more contained/compressed, obviously. This sounds like a great recipe for outdoing the benchmark you asked for. And here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=- DkMsa4skJg&feature=relmfu 4:22-end. Eruption threw him miles away to Crete and through a pillar.

Now, finally, moving on.

As for the accusation of 'illogical deductions', you will surely agree with me, internally at least (provided you aren't insane, though I'm starting to think you are), that your ability for reason and logical does not exactly...exist at all--at least for the topic of LoK. Afterall, the main catalyst for my response to you is based on the premise of an over the top calc; one of the (at this scale, a very understated one) implications of this calc being that Kain could essentially yawn off a ground zero nuclear explosion. But please do you tell yourself and others, that everyone else is the 'troll' or 'blind' or 'biased' or
'illogical'. Please do continue. It amuses the rest of us whilst you continue to be the butt of our jokes. 🙂

Your reaching, Kratos could only even catch up to hermes once he was limping about, fairly slowly may I add in a small room. You dont have anything to claim Kratos did anything on par, reactionwise or on foot to beat Hermes so plucking out some speed feat Hermes did at his peak is irrelevent.

'You're reaching.' Proof that you don't have anyway of rebutting the logic of my statement, and have taken to the standard catch-all handwaving phrase, and coming up with your own baseless interpretation.

It can't be reaching, it was absolutely correct, and it doesn't contradict what the game shows in the least, either. In fact the game supports it completely. What did I say again? I said 'tired' is relative. For example a tired class 100 doesn't because human level weak just because he's tired. Likewise a guy
fast enough to vertically run up a several mile long chain without his speed reaching zero before hand, is not going to sink to human levels
of speed just because he's tired. And indeed he still WAS superhuman levels of speed, as he was just as much a blur as he was prior.

What you're describing here is gameplay speed. Irrelevant. He doesn't move around the room fast. but neither does dante or boss fight vergil move in game at actual mach 20 speeds despite feats like the Teminguru (sp?) Tower run proving Dante can. Kratos is as fast as hermes with his roll alone, yet he's obviously not meant to be as fast. Try it. Its completely a gameplay speed. Again, irrelevant.

Also, as I said with baseless interpretation, that is exactly what you are giving me. What cutscene or statement are you using to say that Kratos only managed to catch up to Hermes while he was limping about? Hermes does NOT start limping about, e.g. stumbling around in his acrobatic attempts, until you DAMAGE him enough. When you simply start the fight he fights normally with intermittent stops here and there, only after you hurt him enough for him scream and drop green orbs in slow mo does he finally begin to actually stumble about and fail at running up a wall. Try it. So since its a fight we can only deduce based on what transpired within the gameplay, the only thing to deduce is that Hermes got more exhausted BECAUSE Kratos was hitting him, and not that Kratos only caught up to him after Hermes got truly exhausted. How can we be truly sure that Kratos was hitting Hermes during the fight? Because Hermes WHINES about it during the fight, "Unfair Kratos! No hitting!" And he says this through the entire stage of the fight, even while he's fresh enough to not stumble about in the beginning. How can we trust what Hermes says here? Simple. Another example in-battle character statement shows just how reliable they can be as to the certainty of occured events; when you are fighting Poseidon he says here and there that 'Atlantis shall be avenged!' This happened in Ghost of Sparta, yet when God of War 3 came out Ghost of Sparta hadn't even been ANNOUNCED yet for months, and wouldn't release until
almost 9 months after. So we can count on the characters giving spoilers for games months out from even being revealed, let alone released, so we should be able to trust what they say is happening in the present tense, in this case; Hermes saying Kratos is hitting him. And no, finding speed feats for Hermes is hardly irrelevant, that's what we use to powerscale what he'd be when he's tired--and again, its asinine to think his speed loss was huge. Once more, one's jogging speed while fresh isn't going to be outright superior to one's sprinting speed while tired, they should be comparable. Same principle applies here, as Hermes' other feats were casual, yet he was not being casual against Kratos in the fight. Hell, here's a Hermes reaction feat from God of War 2 that seems to be missed often; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hpesTIlww&feature=related 3:01-3:08. A titan tosses a boulder and it crosses maybe twice the length of its body height in about a second. So its going ~1000 meters a second which is ~mach 2.94. The little guy that rolls out of the way just before it touches down is Hermes. Why then did he not get out of the way of the incoming boulder from the catapult? Plot requirement. There was a roof next to the statue that he could've jumped on to avoid it but they had him stand and gawk instead. Hell, as soon as the statue had crashed through and we see Kratos again, we see that Hermes had already left a blood trail leading around the building to the other side. So as soon as he touched down he already started running and covered a greater distance than he would've had to cover to simply get off the statue of Athena. So yes, that and the boulder dodging says him standing on Athena's statue was nothing but plot requirement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rSHtdpEeI
^5:44-6:04. Kratos reacting to Charon's teleport-esque walking on screen. And then proceeds to beat the shit out of him in the fight. This is their second fight, in the first one, a big green blast of energy from Charon's ferry knocked Kratos out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZEQuqXEv50
^Kratos reacts to Erinys throwing a human at him. The dude was thrown so fast the stone bridge behind Kratos was busted by the impact. How was fast did he have to go to do that? Faster than Kain has ever gone in his life. Here we see a ~13 ton dump truck, going 50 mph, not even doing anything to this concrete blockade. So yeah...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFi0QMp9bn0

The gods have had shown enhanced senses and reactions since the very first game now that I think about it. Ares, threw a sharpened pillar all the way from Athens to Pandora's temple in the Desert of Lost Souls. The desert of lost souls is at least a dozen or more miles wide, just by how small Kronos looked wandering it, and from how expansive it looked even from a very high platform (it was maybe 700 feet high when compared to a kneeling Kronos). And then of course there is the distance between the desert and athens, which is not small, hell there's a mountain range between the two. From start to 1:31, a reminder of how big the desert looked; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHtjKDfaTkE&feature=related. Ares' pillar throw was crossing maybe...24 miles in 10 seconds, and from that vast distance he was able to see where Kratos was standing, aim at him perfectly, and see his thrown pillar hit him. That's enhanced reactions and senses, legit.

Artemis from the God of War novel, likewise had a enhanced senses and reflexes feat. The situation was that Artemis wanted to protect her woodland creatures from Ares and his army. They were attacking her forests and she in turn to get Ares to back off, attacked Ares' army to get him to leave her domain alone and in turn she would leave his army alone. Word for Word: " 'You turn your hand against my creatures.' Artemis lowered the aim of her bow. 'Witness how I turn my hand against yours.' She released her arrow, which shot from her bow more swiftly than lightning and before it could strike, another arrow appeared and was released. So many arrows flew so swiftly, that the glade seemed filled with a golden haze, that buzzed and snarled like a nest of angry hornets. After that single instant, Artemis lowered her bow and looked up at Ares; 'So?' The God of War looked down upon his army, every once living creature of his in that glade lay dead. Every undead creature was mutilated beyond recognition. The wolves and bears and elk stood untouched." There we go, a rather understated goddess like Artemis (for this verse) did something as awesome as eliminate an entire army by shooting so many arrows in less than a second, that the glade seemed caught up in a golden haze from the color of all the arrows flying, and then only specific targets were killed. It's reasonable to assume more imposing Gods were at least comparable to her in reflexes. I suppose the argument that all the gods simply jobbed to Kratos could be made...but that would be kind of daft. I mean,really? For the entire series? He is Zeus' son and all, and is no normal mortal. All the other mortals were dying of a plague once Hermes was killed, and yet Kratos was completely unaffected, for example.

Moving on, Kratos was able to react to a charge by the Leviathan. When one first charges out of the water, here 7:47-8:08;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3rgcBaI4v8 it is undeniably going hypersonic. Seeing as how small the titan looked while falling, and that the titans being 500 meters tall makes them just under 1/3 of a mile tall, I'm willing to guess the Leviathan crossed something like 3 to 6 miles a second in this scene. Then of course Kratos reacts to a charge by the Leviathan, in slow motion, and it was a surprise charge as well, 8:23-8:30: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOzGvWPQjxs&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c4fosyAX40&feature=relmfu
^9:30-10:14 Another reaction feat, the titan fell from a pretty impressive distance, but Kratos flies up from the underworld from at least as great a distance. The titan fell from what I'd say is roughly halfway up Olympus down into an ocean below it. The underworld is far below that ocean, and Kratos flies from all the way down there up to the labyrinth, all in about 40 seconds. According to one of the in-game murals, the labyrinth is in the center of Mt. Olympus. So Kratos basically flies several miles up through a narrow 'chute' in ~40-45 seconds, all the while avoiding obstructions and falling debris like molten boulders to try to get to Pandora who is in distress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GskjvpRdWlA
^1:25-1:49. In the Kronos fight, he is able to jump from shoulder to palm. A distance of maybe 800 feet (granted he was coming down at a slant), considering Kronos is 500 meters/1640 feet tall. From a still position, his leg strength was able to propel him 800 feet in a single bound. Meaning if he was actually SPRINTING, he'd be even be even faster than this. Sprinting > stationary horizontal leaping, in speed. Kain doesn't have a single speed feat to demonstrate he could cover 800 feet in roughly a second.

Let's talk about LoK's speed then shall we? Some videos that have been already posted maybe reused here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So42r9XTqZE
^He couldn't even blitz moebius before the latter activated the sceptor. Granted the next time they meet, he simply
TKs it out of Moebius' hand before he gets closer, but the point is even from that, is that their interactions in Defiance is pretty much just like a human posturing against another human, where whoever has the intitiative, element of surprise, etc. gets the advantage, and no different than their interaction in BO, which was thousands of
years ago and yet Kain's reaction time has clearly not improved since then. Which I will continue to show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDANlR9D-Es&feature=related
^5:20-5:26. Kain TK's himself forward and stabs Moebius' body that Raziel just occupied. At first glance, this seems fast...but he's only going about 3 meters in half a second. So 6 meters a second. Which amounts to....a little over 13 miles per hour...not even Olympic sprinter level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1345m0oWk4&feature=related
^:09-:12 seconds. Kain jumps about 15 meters/50 feet, in 2 seconds. Better than what I had before, but...um...it comes out to about 17 mph in a short burst. Not anywhere close beyond human perception. And the thing is, even if you try to scale up to how fast he would be if he was sprinting, it unfortunately wouldn't work. Why? Because it's not simply a matter of strong leg muscles allowing him to jump fast (which would logically allow him to run fast as well since jumping ability and speed is strongly correlated.), but its simply a 'dark gift' he gained from a fellow vampire, Faustus, in BO2. And the dark gift is specifically called...'Jump'. 😐 Proof here, where he beats Faustus and gains the 'Jump' ability and then uses it, from 11:16-12:35; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X6D_ynf7wY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGS-1X8auH0&feature=related
^11:26-12:00 Marcus, a vampire, running. And a human sarafan guard keeping pace with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmDz2FEmYKw&feature=related
^1:49-2:00 Kain attacks the Hylden Lord at human level of speed. Why is it human level? Because he made his lunge within the timeframe it took to say 'Fiend!'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcatJAQeqLs&feature=related
^2:29-2:44 Raziel lunging at Kain with human level speed, Kain reacts in time to toss him. How do we know he was lunging at human level speed?Because as above with Kain, Raziel's attack was given a time frame with a grunted word; 'Begins'. And needless to say...this human level speed Raziel manages to slash Kain later within this fight. So there definitely isn't any real disparity between their perception speed. 🙂

Or maybe I'm mistaken and vampires just produce vocal sounds at faster speeds than humans as well? ;p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Je-DmVsUyM&feature=related
^6:49-9:48 And as posted already, Raziel admitted after beating human Melchiah and Zephon at the same time, that he got wounds from them and that they simply healed from the reaver. He fought two humans in thick plate armor, and could not avoid getting wounds inflicted on him. Once again, a demonstration of roughly human level reaction time.

^5:32-5:50 from the same video. Raziel couldn't prevent Moebius and Malek from bolting the door on him. If being a vampire grants such a big speed advantage over mortals, why couldn't Raziel as a vampire wraith run past them easily?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh26jrgXHX0&feature=related
^2:53-3:54. Raziel, who we've established is equal to Kain in reaction time, thought it strange that Vorador teleported away once Raziel discovered he was following him in SR2. He reasoned that someone bold enough to assault the circle of 9 single handedly (granted though he did not face all of them.), should have no reason to fear him. (This statement also allows us to infer that Vorador is at least comparable to Kain in SR2, and yet he was still destined to die by a guillotine at this point.) So surprise attacking a group of spell slinging humans is considered an impressive feat in LoK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIMP0MvBG6A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYtdgjs35tc&feature=related
^8:07-9:49 first video. start to :57 second video. Vorador fought Malek twice. And neither times did he show himself to be above him in reaction time, in fact they were quite comparable. The first time Vorador started the fight with a sneak attack at Malek's helmet, stunning him for a bit. Then when they started fighting earnestly, Vorador could not get past Malek's guard. He had to resort to stepping back and trying to blast him to finally get a victory. The second time, when Malek's soul is bound to his armor, Malek reacted to Vorador teleporting behind him and socked Vorador in the face. Again, it was an even fight reaction time wise. Vorador was able to defeat the armored spectre version of Malek, whereas young Kain had to flee because he couldn't find a way to win. Still, Kain matched Malek well blow for blow and only left out of hunger and to buy himself time. So even Vorador, who is centuries older than Kain, while clearly more skilled and powerful at the time, had not developed reaction time any greater than possible for a fit human. Malek is just a Sarafan general. While highly skilled and definitely above grunts, its simply greater skill and experience, he's still just human. Even him doing a backflip in the armor, is still completely within human possibilities, as there's a vid or two on youtube of people backflipping with full plate armor on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpaw2P5xagM
^:30-:38.Janos tries to swipe at human Raziel's face, but the latter is able to avoid it. Another example of an ancient vampire that had not developed reactions times any greater than human level despite all his time alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhDQWmV3-9o&feature=related
^:34-:44. Here's Kain, getting spotted easily by guards just as he teleports.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rcfoR0CyHI
^1:54-2:04. Young Kain fought William. And got hit by him. William and Kain were both wielding 'Blood' Reavers and Kain admits that William got in some hits and that he had to replenish the blood lost from the fight...Granted, William had some guards with him, but William was literally nothing but a teenager at the time and he STILL got in blows against Kain. Don't try to say that William's Reaver took blood away from Kain without ever hitting him either if its convenient for you to say so now, as you said here in the respect thread after putting up the William the just fight that he was being hit; "Kain can take the soul reavers strikes even at his weakest and despite its power, can resist its soul devouring and force and only requires the blood of a man to restore his vitality."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh3lzjs_Ubk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCtDPjHpBUI
^Young Kain fought the Dark Entity, which was just the Hylden Lord posessing Mortanius as stated by Amy Hennig. And then, When Kain fought the Hylden Lord when he was occupying his own body in BO2, Kain STILL hadn't developed his reaction time since then. Otherwise he would have at least shown to be faster than the Hylden Lord, but he really didn't. Kain was hundreds of years older when he fought the Hylden Lord in BO2, and he still didn't develop his attack speed noticeably. Granted Kain started off weaker since he woke up from a 200 year sleep set on by the Hylden Lord beating him before the story begins, but by the end of it he was stronger than he was at the end of BO1 since he had gotten more dark gifts that he had beaten from other vampires he had known, who had developed their powers well during that 200 years of sleep he was stuck in.

After all these videos, it should be apparent now that whether we're looking back as far as Blood Omen or as far foward as Defiance, reaction time and reflexes above humans, is pretty much non-existent. Vampires just don't seem to develop their speed and reaction time no matter how old they are, as we see clearly in examples regarding Kain. Umah tells us in BO2 that vampires are supposed to have 'inhuman speed and agility', but as best as can be figured, its 'inhuman' in the same way a mountain lion would be. You know, a couple of times faster than a good sprinter, able to leap vertically a good 15-18 feet, and such, but as far as pure reaction time/reflexes/attack speed goes? Not noticeably greater than human range at all. The fastest vampire by feats, was Sebastian in BO2, and even then he wasn't that impressive. The best he did was run along the edge of a circular room, something I've seen people on motorcyles do similarly. And even when Kain absorbed his soul, he didn't even get his level of speed, all he got was a new little combo move called Berserk that still wasn't particularly fast.

I more than welcome a speed feat challenge if you're even up to it, it would be easy on my end after all I've shown and that you've basically admitted in a prior quote that you don't have anything. Kratos has clear cut superior speed in any manner you can think of; his own personal speed/reaction feats, powerscaling from foes he's fought, or even gameplay attack speed since you've allowed yourself to open up that avenue with a prior quoted example.

LOLOL Kratos Titan blocking shit AGAIN!! /sarcasm also what are you talking about? again, you dont know the game sources. Your knowledge is based on someone whos brieftly looked at a couple of screenshots or a couple of minutes of youtube.

Shut up, idiot, with your baseless ignorance accusations. It should be obvious now that I know AT LEAST as much about LoK as you do about God of War. I owned SR and SR2, and while I didn't own Defiance personally, I did have a friend who did. I didn't own Blood Omen 1 or 2, but I've seen both games in their entirety. At the same time, you haven't read the god of war novel or the comics, so things balance out at the very least. Unfortunately, my memory is hardly as fresh since those games were played so long ago that youtube will be required here and there. Even IF my knowledge of things were soley from youtube, it is a completely moot point if the walkthroughs in youtube show the entirety of the games' story. All that matters is that the same information is conveyed. Not how it is digested. You sound like some elitist chump, which is fine, you aren't credible on this forum as it is. It's also contradictory since you only watch bits and pieces of youtube vids of LoZ and still make comments.

Also, what is the 'LOLOL Kratos Titan blocking shit AGAIN!!' supposed to be a parody of you abject retard? A parody of me laughing at an non-sensical unsupported calc--is somehow comparable to laughing at an actual on-screen feat? Ok, if you want. It doesn't really make sense from a demonstration of wit point of view, but ok.

You are the worst fan wanker of all time. Ever. Cloud/Sephy boys have nothing on you. Make no mistake about it. And you have done more harm to LoK on here than good because you are a terrible 'representative'. The worst thing to happen to Kain is not getting killed by thugs as a noble, getting reborn as a vamp by Mortanius, or even corrupting the pillars; you are. There's no reason to bothered in being a fan of a verse that isn't heavy on super feats, and that definitely applies to LoK, but the thing is you realize this fact and it DOES bother you. It bothers you A LOT. That's why you seek such help externally from other people's numbers, where few others would care to even look, in order to attempt to get a hollow 'one-up' over rival characters. Kain is a guy with a lot of nifty powers, strength level inferior to that of spiderman, combat speed at best comparable with that of batman when minding teleportion, and durability at BEST above bulletproof level with an inconsistent calc, and at worst well below it when considering the entire limitations across the canon. U mad?

...Why are you so dumb BT? I ask in the most genuinely concerned manner possible here. You are just...the worst kind of idiot. The kind that happens to have a decent semblence of intelligence; and thus will basically gather any convoluted explanation to defend their views. You're just an insane troll. Seek help.

But yeah the next time Kain is chilling inside our sun, he should ask Superman who'll be right next to him, for ideas on how to save Nosgoth. Surely they'll think of a solution together.

I couldn't decide between these two, so here, have both:

Comet wins. For Forever and Eternity.

But maybe you should tone don't some of the comments in the future. They're a little bashy.

I would profile this, but

Yeah.

Though as awesome as that was, some of the comments were just unnessicarily aggressive and offensive.

Not impressed with that. 😬

/Clap

CosmicComet, knock off the personal attacks.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
CosmicComet, knock off the personal attacks.

Minstrels will write songs about CC.

Originally posted by Nephthys

CC, this is the Hermes feat you mentioned.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

I probably shouldnt give this a second look due to the huge amount of bashing and fallacies, its a shame because those posts would have all been quite good for KMC had it not been for those but you couldnt help yourself it seems but I respect the effort and will counter without bashing of course.

Again, ignorance of the source material. Raziel clearly easily deals with them all, whether he blitzed them is none of your concern, he did not decide to use many attacks at all, he just fought them with the sword and I dont know where you got Kains=Raziels from, thats wrong as well since Kain is generally superior to Raziel, theres a few feats as well that Raziel does not have.

Sure, the dimentional reaver attack requires Kain to percieve and attack an opponent between the teleports, since hes not part of the world between the attacks he is visualising and taking in the information all at once when he appears, his mind is capable of doing this and attacking in whats a fraction of a second, its a better feat than Raziel or his younger self.

This last paragraph is a waste of time for several reasons, you left out that both of those you mensioned were hobbled by the staff of Moebius while being defeated and Sarafan Raz being confident makes the future Raz less impressive? what?

Yes it is, its always in question and if anyone arrogently claims their above another without proving it to that person then their just making hot air and people, including you make pages of posts just to try and gain my approval, you realise I am posting this to you out of a favour and not because your more credible? I think your posts here prove that popularity is the only currency you can barter with here and only because I am disliked, mostly because of how ime not as young as some of these posters id wager. 😆 the math speaks for itself, if you want to complain about how much pressure Kain can take then take it up with those who did all the math because I certainly didnt do it, I did the first part that people in the off-topic thread laughed at and you know what happened? 3 other people got into it who had no bias and they found me right....this is KMC.

Yes your right, a meaningless extrapolation, especially when trying to compare real world muscle strength to what Kratos can do, Kratos is not much larger than people on the "worlds strongest man" yet none of them can lift half of the things little Raziel can lift or tip.

Also i think you have a double standard on your hands in this last part. Your making large claims of how I have used large calcs that do not make sense but then your claiming Kratos is billions of times stronger, based on what exactly? hes stronger, but billions? what math suggets this? his best feat is pushing a large hand off of his body with his full strength, at best the arm may weight in at thousands of tons but billions? no....and this last part is especially bad, Kratos has control of his own strength so pressing himself etc does not give him any durability feat, further there are a lot of things in that we can see as wrong, like his bodyweight not getting launched.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Their not as strong though as Kratos, so no and they have never used such strength values either. And he cant strike with as much force as Raziel because his strength is sub-par, his speed is also decent but that does not help him much in achieving the same power, the rest of this is a dispointing slew of insults, its like you dont have the evidence for your claim so berrating me was your counter? great...

If Raziels claws were blunt he wouldnt be so easily able to slice into concrete, stone and people and use them as a weapon and further, what hits Kain is the very tip so the whole shape is irrelevent, and most of this is semantics, youve got a couple of extra square millimeters in your conclusion.

Although its true the verse has only low strength feats, theres a lot worse in other games more commonly used and GoW is one of those that are not among that number and is in fact very strong strengthwise. You seem to be going on a rant as if I said Kratos could not create a lot of pressure or something, my whole argument previously was Kratos would never hit Kain because hes too slow.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

All of thise is a waste of time, its almost like your saying just because I use figuires higher than someone elses I am wrong? Bloodrains calcs seem to change depending on his relation to the person hes talking to, if you recall the obelisk feat was at 1k tons at one point, then went down to 800, then 500 and when BR got snarky with me, it went to 300 and was calced as a severe frustum despite it having sloped sides not even close to the more severe ones he was comparing it to. Point is, M and D figuires brought to light the true calcluations for finding what the "dead-drop" power is and wahts more, their completly unbias because they dont even come to games vs, I am pretty sure if they did come here and spent a month or so of me putting down their arguments they would become upset and twist some calcs around as well but as it stands thats not true. Further, most of your numbers here are simply assuming SP's math, which was a troll and I have equelly lowballing figuires for link, BR simply posted some of it with his own and still, as you said the figuires are very high.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

The plane more or less disintegrated, a lot of the energy just got sent back through the plane becuase the wall is incredibly durable, the same sort of thing would probably happen to Kratos if he punched Kain 😉 although seriously, this does not prove anything. This is you extrapolating on something you dont understand with something you dont understand, then adding in something like a nail on the tip as if that makes a feat less impressive.

Who cares? whoever is on the recieving end. Also I like how this post simply concludes into bashing again, its almost like at the end of your posts you realise yourself your evidence is pretty weak and you have to add insults to make it look like your in control, when to me it just shows a lack of it, and adds some fallacies that would in any logical or offical argument disqualify you. The numbers speak for themselves, I dont have to do any more than show them.

I like how when it comes to the actual evidence from the games, the only thing of your extrapolations that matter you fall disapoingly short, your using mostly gameplay mechanics and limits to try and convey that Raziel is weak? Kratos cant just break through walls either, comparatively he struggles audiably against small doors and mechanisms and even health chests, these are mechanics and thats all your listing here.

And neither Raziel, Kain or Kratos and most KMC characters we debate gain strength from their physical bodies, so the whole "he should be able to jump high" is nonsense and just as comparable to Kratos.

The doors, Raziel hardly tries and leaps away from the avalanche of rocks. How can you tear it off? he could effectively slice it up but how? and why when all he has to do is find a way round? your using whats practically a mechanic in almost every game of its type, including GoW to lowball feats, their not even good showings.

On the tomb thing, so what? he slices through it...it didnt stop the sword...that same attack would one shot Kratos,Dante etc, so Kain has good reason to fear it.

I dont know about 1 foot, looks like many square meters, but he says he now has the means to obliterate them, he never said he could never pick through them with his claws. Also an RPG? an RPG cannot blow open meters of concrete/rock, and theres nothing there that suggests Raziel couldnt have dug, if anything his basic feats from clawring puzzle blocks proves this, again your using mechanics, in this case the requirement of finding keys to doors, Link, Kratos, Dante etc do this all the time.

Melchiah didnt tank them, also do you know the difference between a cutscene and gameplay mechanics? You realise my feat for Kain is an FMV that closely shows Raziel hitting Kain with his claws, your using what equates to a boss fight with mechanic based tactics involved, melchiah is never durable but bosses in GoW are the same, Kratos strikes with his blades an ingodly number of times, has to weaken them and then he has to hit weak points half the time.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Well he couldnt just "walk" through them before like he can now.

This whole part of your post can be counted with "Dumah has no durability feats" so comparing him to Kain is worthless. And Kain is billions times more durable than Raziel.

Kains got a vast number of durability feats over the years, mostly more recently so I dont know why your using old posts to apprently claim me wrong, I have seen ridiculous numbers of laughable posts that people still stick to this day, I am flexible and "can" be convinced by good evidence.

That is scripted though, that happens to be how the attack works wheras the reactions of Dumah are not technically scripted and its still based around the mechanic which is not being able to harm bosses with regular attacks.

The only thing I am ashamed for is the fact you completly ruin all of your posts and arguments by bashing and flameing as if, as I said before you need to prop up your argument which falls flat without a bit of bashing.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Janos has no feats and is weakened by the Staff of Moebius.

Same here.

Also this is probably my favourite rant, you find two featless vampires, use them in a weakened state and although its true its not stated that it weakens them physically, thats not enough for you to say it doesnt when your making the argument these vampires are soft which tbh I dont care for, as I said they are featless os yes, Kain is bilions of times stronger. And Moebius' staff affects the vampiric spirit as well, not just the heart, as can be shown when in his presence Raziels wraith blade dissapates. If you know anything about LoK, you know the soul is like a direct connection to ones power.

No form of magic known, we dont know anything about how Dumah and his clan were destroyed other than they "were", by vampire hunters. Who, consistently have used magic over the years, in Defiance almost every group you come across have some sorcery.

We know Raziel did not want to kill Janos full stop, so you again, fall short here and as Amy herring pointed out, their talking about strain from possession, immortal vessels last longer than mortal ones. Humans drain, that doesnt mean the Hylden lord, who indeed came with his own powers and magic did not protect himself.

Oh look, again using Raziel in place of Kian as if that makes things comparable, you use too many titles Cosmic, too many. You link people up like "oh Kain sired, or Kain gave life/his soul to Dumah etc" as if this automatically gives them feats.

My credability stands just as firm as it always has, in the evidence and not using strawmans and fallacies like you my dear friend 🙂

Originally posted by CosmicComet

And you failed completly, youve brought up mostly gameplay mechanics, things you "suppose" should be true just because a character has a small part of Kain in him (no crude puns or jokes intended) and more importantly youve used gameplay tropes used in pretty much every game, this whole "air reaver" thing is just a key for a door, Kratos does the same in every one of his games, he has to run over and pull a lever or find some special item to get somewhere. Dante, Link, hell all of these people probably do it far more than LoK. I recall Dante hanging around a door just because he couldnt figuire out to smack the concrete slab next to it to open up the door. This whole thing is in a cutscene, your evidence is nothing but a "suppose".

Your bringing up a vast number of double standards, much of which you dont even understand, you champion a universe (GoW) that spits in the face of all these things and how he acts towards chronos is so far ahead of all his others feats, before or after its funny how you would complain about me and LoK considering your hypocrisy here when the difference between toppling one pillar thats only a few times heavier than the blocks he flips around with ease throughout his entire game.

Amy herring created it and the team made those obelisks so I dont know why, if anything she would laugh at your trying to compare some of these scenes as if their low showings and using mechanics, your probably among the people who asked Amy why there are a lot more hearts of darkness in Blood omen.... and most people argued in games vs cannot say they have taken any sharp object of any high pressure, including Kratos.

It retcons everything shown canonically, if Kain is shown nigh immune in this scene wheras before he was badly weakened, how can you say otherwise? it retcons it, simple as that. The SR 1 durability in the previous scene is retconned in this scene as well, you cant use durability from a version of the game thats retconned in the sequel and whats more ,SR1 is nothing tbh, its just Kain holding his face, it could be just as much to do with Raziel breaking his spell cast, hitting his more vulnerable areas on his face or w/e, theres no physical wound however, which means little.

No, I dont make any assumptions, what are you talking about? I see Kain in the old scene limping away more or less defeated, and I see Kain tanking blows like their nothing, not even getting a bruise, therefore Kains durability is vastly higher than before.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Or I could be argueing that being struck by the most powerful weapon in the series, makes you weaker than your max strength especially when your hunched over in pain and bleeding. And yes it is the same area, your caps show a wound just below Kains band of cloth that holds his cape thing on, his hand is also below this area, the wraith blade covers the whole chest because its large, and whats more, Kain spits blood so its more than just a flesh wound. Your pretty much claiming that theres no difference between getting hit while your at full strength and unharmed and being hit not long after you doubled over in agony, spitting blood from being struck by a weapon thats imbued with a vast amount of elemental powers and spiritual force on top of Raziels physical...

Theres also how Kain was launched by the hit to consider, if you hit someone on only one side their going to counter balance and fall to the opposite side, especially since Kain was launched through the air but no, he falls almost directly backwards from a strike that he holds on his chest.

🙄 yes because being struck by the most powerful blade in the game is not a negative factor. Again, blindly bias. Also, youve failed to read Amy herrings q/a's where she points out absorbing the wraith blade itself heals Kain, nothing to do with Raziel being absorbed into the reaver, so again, source knowledge is handy.

Kratos based on that just gets launched by it though, he does not stand there and shrug off the whole pressure of the energy in the volcano, most of that is, as Volcanos go on the lava in the first place and the pressure in the eruption, Kratos at no point takes the entire force of all the pressure, Kain on the other hand can take the entire force of all the pressure of the sun on his body. Also youve not actually disproven any of "M, D and BR"'s math yet, youve made crude comparisons to gameplay and thought that would make things less legit, we can all do that.

I like how someone who thinks a few videos of gameplay mechanics, and assertions that have no bearing in fact and that counter his own fiction (GoW) can rule any greater logical reasoning over anyone. And again, with the bashing.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

You clearly must have not played the game, Kratos struggles to catch up with hermes and cannot fight him until Hermes has his leg slashed and damaged, hermes is literally slowly moving around, its as simple as that. Well he is if his legs that give him said speed are ruined.

Again Cosmic, gameplay, you have to watch this. And again, tiny room, Kratos uses especially long chain blades that could cover most of that room in length, speed never comes up in that fight for Kratos, only endurance and persistance.

Also I like how your using "plot requiremnent" to cover all of Hermes' shortcomings, the guy slowed down to a crawl when he couldnt outpace Kratos' slow lumbering.

Again, he is not reacting to much at all, Charon moves quickly from one area to another and in gampeplay as Kratos ,you have to slowly lumber after him, who conventiatly like in most gameplay as a boss, stops for you to do so.

Thats Ares feat, not Kratos' and its not necesserily reactions but more senses, the fact he knew Kraots was there and could somehow aim and see him was a godly sense, not reaction considering Kratos was hardly moving.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Your giving feats of people who are not Kratos, or even the enemies he fights one on one in any way. Ares does not use any reaction feats in the fights, he never fights Artemis afaik and the other Gods/Demis move at peak human speeds in half of his fights with a little bit of "not so impressive" light trickery from Zeus.

Theres no proof the leviathan he reacted to was going as fast as it did earlier though, your making things up here, sure it came in fairly quick but at no major speeds and its not like he didnt know what was going on thanks to Gaia.

What the...so what if hes flying up a chute? hes dodging things as their falling, thats not reaction speed of anything impressive, things are falling down and he moves out of the way.

Again, your overhyping this, he leaps off as you said at a slant straight into Chronos' palm. This is not some impressive leg strength tbh, it was more falling than anything with Chronos doing most of the work.

You could say the same about most if not all GoW fights, human posturing, Kains not trying to blitz or kill anyone, your ignorance on the source shows again. Thats faster than most if not all of Kratos' manouvers though, his lumbering legs wouldnt be able to do that.

😆 Raziel human level speed? I would like to see a human do something like that, I would like to see Kratos do something like that, hes simply not got the agility. What are you trying to prove exactly? that as long as Kain does not decide to teleport or mist form and attempts to use pure physical movement that a jumping Kratos can keep up with him? 😆

Thats also a demonstration of Kratos' reaction time....he gets knocked down by a slow moving Colossus hand which I could see a mile off, let alone Kratos.

Also Malek just a "fit human" is as daft as saying Hercules is just a "fit human", if anything Malek being able to sock Vorador and react to him from behind is so far better than anything Kratos has done. Infact, all Kratos does is fight people headlong, when he fought posiedon, Zeus, Chronos and pretty much all the demigods he never used any speed or reaction times, he just used brute force. Thats all he is.

But here you are again talking about people who are not Kain, do not have Kains powers and abilities or skills etc.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Why would Janos develop that? Develop reactions when hes spent eons sitting about guarding the reaver, he does not evolve like Vorador and kains brethren, not even sure you can put Vorador in the same boat as Kain and his sons tbh.

Also play the games, thats not a teleport, its mist form and why wouldnt he be seen? he dodged back a few meters...

I never said BO1 Kain had any speed feats nor that he could Blitz william, Kratos wouldnt be able to blitz william either, only due to lack of feats if wiliam got a hit on Kratos, Kratos would be dead, not just regenerating on blood.

😆 I dont know whats worse, you argueing with yourself about an actual piece of canon from Umah telling you your wrong OR you posting whats clips of gameplay from different eras of time to try and claim Kain is slow just because in w/e scene A he was seen, or in scene B he did not blitz straight away! The same can be said about most characters, context is relevent.

powerscaling is not a feat nor is it even a logical deduction of reasoning, especially when you cut all context out of scenes, take the best feats from any given entities in the GoW universe then pretend you can splice them together and say "hey look! Kratos has to be quicker because Zeus has to be quicker, because!", it doesnt work like that sorry.

baseless ignorance accusations? what? Thats someone using gameplay mechanics and contextless claims, powerscaling without actual feats for their character and without having even played most of the games were discussing calling me ignorant? youve played one series, and a few games from the other, I have played both bar one game.....and I am the ignorant one? 🙄 This forum by default does not see the novel or the comic as canon, youve unlikely seen the pre-release comics of LoK either....

Ill just skip the funny rant, it holds no real arguments and go to the conclusion of your post and my counter to it;

-Representation of your points- Poorly represented, youve created a flowing string of fallacies, including bashing which ruined your points, I am sad to say that you added those trolling in and made yourself pretty much a copy of Terry, Scream and anyone whos made a rant of similiar type and whats funny is, its come not long after I put your argument down, just like all those before.

-Arguments themselves- its a shame I had to pick them apart from bashing and sarcasm and the like, but seriously yuo used mostly old information that you did not understand yourself and used a poor disection of source material. I mean at least when I use youtube vids from games I have not played, I ask questions, I dont post a video of someone doing something then assume on top of that without asking a question. Its like youve tkaen something you dont know about, made your own conclusion and ignored someone who knows everything about it.

-Represenation of yourself- Youve spoken for yourself well enough here and I outlined it above, you just bashed massively, not sure i have ever bashed so much in one post myself, considering I am covered in trolls its a wonder why I havent, probably because I know I would get more than a slap on the wrist. I think youve done yourslef agreat injustice, puting a lot of time into a lot of posts clearly then filled them with things that toppled it all, itsl ike making a brick wall, using weak cement alreayd only to pour water all over it and collapse it at the end of each of your points. You claim of me being not so credible and not taken seriously yet i dont think anyone can be taken seriously saying that when they have just put 5/6 posts worth of effort into me while bashing and trolling at once, showing hypocrisy and using poor sources.....

On the whole I am sorely disapointed, I thought, nay hoped you had put together a good old counter against evidence here but instead youve lowballed things from nothing, used mechanics, used tropes and double standards in the same paragraphs and then at the end of each baited/trolled some more with some degree of arrogance that you blamed me for.....hypocrisy.

The only thing youve managed to prove is that your a represenation of my opposition this forum, you troll me, bash and flame and thats about it, your points are loosely drawn together and you rely on nothing but belittlement to hold it up and as always, I am here to point this out to you, its like your acting as a knight in shining armour which is nice at first against the tyranical BT but you come in, tarnished, covered in mud and without a sword or shield and hope that just cursing at someone is going to prove your points.

Tips on the next trolling rant from anyone, leave out the swearing and name calling and general flameing, calling someone an idiot then breaking all the rules of a forum while trying to apprently sit on your high horse and belate someone you dont like. Oh and add more argument, less sarcasm and fallacies such as the red herring, straw man etc, I guess its too much to ask for better arguments though so ill leave that out.

Oh and shown above, it only took me a few posts to counter all that because when you leave out the trolling and heavy bashing, you dont need to type as much. Good health to all 🙂

I can't help but notice that your post (Along with being an eyesore to read) consisted of absolutely no evidence at all, only consisting of "No this is wrong," and occasionally providing a useless explanation on why it is supposedly wrong. I also can't help but notice that you spent a large amount of your posts dismissing CC's credibility because he insulted you, which is a fallacy itself. You can't really sidestep Dumah tanking Raziel's attacks with a laugh, and then being impaled by something far less impressive, those are not gameplay mechanics, you continue to show you are incapable of understanding what a gameplay mechanic actually is.

You also did the same thing you have been doing, continuing to cling blindly to the calculations done for Kain, when you barely even acknowledge the calculations done that would make Kain's supposed durability feat less impressive.

Your only truly valid point is that CC used gameplay mechanics to lowball Kain, when the same could be said of Kratos not being able to bust through doors.

Try to reply to posts more coherently, and with arguments that consist of less sidestepping and "No U".

I like how you hypocrtically replied to my post, complaining about things I apprently did while doing it yourself. Also what evidence do I need other than pointing out why his is wrong, if hes claiming something while using evidence, thats not evidence at all then I cant create counter evidence until I agree hes got evidence to suggest something. And Dumah is never impaled, hes burned to death, not being able to damage bosses in a regular manner or just smashing them down is common in games, including GoW, you can only harm the boss in certain ways, this is indeed a mechanic of gameplay true for many bosses.

Define "cling blindly"? It sounds just like a baiting sentence that, the math speaks for itself and is made by generally unbias people unlike those in games vs who dont really know whats what anyway. And theres nothing that makes it less impressive than what it really is.

Thats pretty much all he did though, only really badly and without having any idea of the game hes talking about and using poor comparisons. Hes making all the claims, I made no new claims therefore I needed no new evidence, only to tell him using a random video and adding some sarcastic banter or bashing does not help his case.

Hes lucky he got any counter posts at all and I didnt just ignore his fairly pointless posts.

Man, you guys are nerds.

WAR SOLO