lulz at the teams zero resistance to mental manipulation resisting or even realising his control.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Kratos or Dante solos. Because Kratos is really fast and can keep up with a teleporter who can TK him and Dante can strike with millions of bar of pressure, is immune to blood,soul and mind powers and looks cool at the same time!Don't know anything about War and not much about Mercer, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did too because to complete my reply to this thread, i dont even know anything about Kain! trollolol.
Corrected
Because Kratos is really fast and can keep up with a teleporter who can TK him
Is this supposed to be a joke? Because...uh...that's absolutely the case here.
Kain has peak human speed at best(ergo he's far too slow), has no useful powers that Kratos hasn't dealt with dozens of times over, and is incalculably weaker and less durable than Kratos.
Kain has never dealt with all those things in one person, one teleport and Kain could be out of Kratos' reach and Kratos is indeed damn slow.
Infact what you just said can be applied the opposite way round, Kratos has no useful powers Kain has not dealt with before and is far faster. Kratos on the other hand, is peak human in speed and has no teleportation. less durable? prove it, weaker strengthwise? yes, but he doesnt need it to slice through Kratos like confetti.
Although I thought your post there was a joke, hence why I countered it in such a way.
Originally posted by Estacado
Kain can only mind control defensless village people he can't even control an avarage sarafan.You fail quanchi...
And Kratos, Dante, mercer and War have shown greater mind resistance than said Nosgoth aristocracy when? They have shown resistance against mind controlling magic when? I will answer....never! 🙂
Also wut? Cosmic is the better troll by far so far out of the two of you so you fail!
Funny how two people are bringing up daft claims in argument against someone who has actually played all the games concerning the characters here. (save Chains of Olmypus but that dunt count!)
Kain. Peak Human Speed.
Kratos. Reacts to confirmed lightning timers which the gods are(Artemis fired her arrows faster than lightning bolts and prepared the next arrow before the first ever hit the ground), blocked a point blank explosion, visibly reacted to Charon on screen who's so fast he looks like he's teleporting when he's simply walking, Was able to react to the Leviathan's charge--which is at least mach 30ish by virtue of how fast it was able to get from the base of Mt. Olympus up to where the Titans were climbing, is able to react to Hermes in QTEs who's fast enough to run from over the horizon and fill several chalices full of wine--all in a few seconds.(that was a casual feat.)
Teleporting and TK/TP. Every damn half decent God should have this on principle alone. Aries has this. Even Persephone had this.
You are a joke, Kain is leagues below the concocted tier you've put him in. Even that obelisk feat for raziel, is nowhere near 700 or whatever tons you guys got to, by virtue of actual obelisks that size being nowhere near that weight--100+ ton structure at best.
Kratos could literally rip Kain's head off and that would be a KO win. Doesn't have to kill him to win by the rules.
Not a single God in the games unless you can show me "Chains of Olmypus" cinematics move at lightning speed or attack at said speed, your using telegraphed gameplay to claim Kratos reacted to the speed which you seem to be hyping, the Leviathan? show me... Also wtf? Hermes was wounded when he actually fights Kratos in which their fighting in a small room. Kain can, if he even chooses to attack Kratos in melee (he probably wont) can appear or re-appear through teleport in fractions of a second, Kratos wont even know whats going on.
Your making shit up, not a single God that Kratos fought used teleportation to avoid Kratos' reach, infact iirc the only person who ever used teleport at all was Ares, who teleported short distances and did not attempt to get any distance between him and Kratos. Kratos has never defeated someone who not only created great distance between them, mind controled his allies and Tked him about like a rag doll.
Again, your talking about characters you know nothing about and groups of people have put him in that tier, if anything its Kratos who your overvalueing, difference is I know since unlike you I have played the games of both characters. also I like how your desperatly trying to devalue a feat calculated by several people, pulling out the wrong numbers we used and then coming to me, someone who did not calculate it.
Kratos is a slow, lumbering character whos only feats of haste at all are from using objects in the environment to swing from place to place, he has no resistance against half of Kains attacks and you bring up laughable comparisons of close combat reaction speed.
Kratos is on Kains side anyway....unless Kain chooses Dante as his champion.
And what the hell? rip his head off? first hes not got the strength unless you think his little push of Chronos' hand equels pressure at a stars core, a vast celestial body and the chances of him achieving that is just as likely as his slow ass getting his hands on Kain at all. Also why would that be a KO? Kain can live as nothing but mist particles. yet another move that would leave Kratos' strength useless, your blind bias and ignorance of the source materials are boreing.
Kain is slow. Is not above the reaction time of Sarafan league members--who are little more than human knights. Raziel was certainly not above their perception speeds when he fought them in SR2, including his Sarafan self.
And figures you wouldn't know about half the shit I mentioned, or misread--I wasn't even talking about Kratos' personal lightning blocking feats (one in GOW2, and another near the end of GOW3). I was talking about the Gods themselves. Show You? The Leviathan? Maybe later. You won't have an argument against it and will just plug your ears and go lalalala, but I'll do so anyway.
Hermes was injured. Guess what? That's relative. His bones weren't broken. He was simply bleeding from the leg. That alone is not enough for even YOU to suddenly perform at less than 1% of your jogging speeds, and certainly not for a god such as Hermes--who is durable enough to tank the friction of his speeds. He had the casual running feat that I mentioned. But against Kratos, he was not being casual. It's equal at best due to the injury, and at worst, its still a significant percentage of that speed.
Kratos tanks volcanic explosions sending him hurtling into statues miles away, without a scratch--and that's not even the best he's got there. On the other hand, Kain got hurt by Raziel at least twice, and got his heart ripped out by a weakened Raziel in Defiance whilst the latter was being absorbed unwittingly by the reaver during the end of their fight there. And guess what, Raziel is a character that has never once held up 100 tons clean over his head--and he was still sufficiently strong enough to make Kain bleed profusely. His feats of strength are below that of someone like Spiderman.
EDIT: LOLOL!!! STARS CORE SHIT AGAIN!!! Kain WAS SCARED when Raziel's blade chopped through Williams coffin. Lmao.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Kain is slow. Is not above the reaction time of Sarafan league members--who are little more than human knights. Raziel was certainly not above their perception speeds when he fought them in SR2, including his Sarafan self.And figures you wouldn't know about half the shit I mentioned, or misread--I wasn't even talking about Kratos' personal lightning blocking feats (one in GOW2, and another near the end of GOW3). I was talking about the Gods themselves. Show You? The Leviathan? Maybe later. You won't have an argument against it and will just plug your ears and go lalalala, but I'll do so anyway.
Hermes was injured. Guess what? That's relative. His bones weren't broken. He was simply bleeding from the leg. That alone is not enough for even YOU to suddenly perform at less than 1% of your jogging speeds, and certainly not for a god such as Hermes--who is durable enough to tank the friction of his speeds. He had the casual running feat that I mentioned. But against Kratos, he was not being casual. It's equal at best due to the injury, and at worst, its still a significant percentage of that speed.
Kratos tanks volcanic explosions sending him hurtling into statues miles away, without a scratch--and that's not even the best he's got there. On the other hand, Kain got hurt by Raziel at least twice, and got his heart ripped out by a weakened Raziel in Defiance whilst the latter was being absorbed unwittingly by the reaver during the end of their fight there. And guess what, Raziel is a character that has never once held up 100 tons clean over his head--and he was still sufficiently strong enough to make Kain bleed profusely. His feats of strength are below that of someone like Spiderman.
EDIT: LOLOL!!! STARS CORE SHIT AGAIN!!! Kain WAS SCARED when Raziel's blade chopped through Williams coffin. Lmao.
What? you dont have a clue what your talking about, Kain never, certainly not in his current form canonically fought a Sarafan at peak. Your not making sense.
Its because your making it up or overhyping it, Kratos has never fought at such great speed.
Your reaching, Kratos could only even catch up to hermes once he was limping about, fairly slowly may I add in a small room. You dont have anything to claim Kratos did anything on par, reactionwise or on foot to beat Hermes so plucking out some speed feat Hermes did at his peak is irrelevent.
Show me this happening and then show me the math youve done which shows how much more powerful that is than the core of our planets pressure. Yeh, again, very little knowledge also your listing is pointless, I could say Kratos was impaled like a mere mortal if I had your ignorance by Zeus with the Blade of Olmypus and try and claim it as a low showing but I wont because unlike you I am not ignorant of hte source material. The only time Raziel has injured Kain is when he uses the wraith blade to weaken him beforehand, canon shows that kain at peak can easily tank Raziels peak without so much as his skins elasticity being tested or a bruise forming. Oh and I am talking about an actual cutscene FMV, not your implications and ilogical deductions from gameplay and quick time events.
LOLOL Kratos Titan blocking shit AGAIN!! /sarcasm also what are you talking about? again, you dont know the game sources. Your knowledge is based on someone whos brieftly looked at a couple of screenshots or a couple of minutes of youtube.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain has [b]never dealt with all those things in one person, one teleport and Kain could be out of Kratos' reach and Kratos is indeed damn slow.Infact what you just said can be applied the opposite way round, Kratos has no useful powers Kain has not dealt with before and is far faster. Kratos on the other hand, is peak human in speed and has no teleportation. less durable? prove it, weaker strengthwise? yes, but he doesnt need it to slice through Kratos like confetti.
Although I thought your post there was a joke, hence why I countered it in such a way.
And Kratos, Dante, mercer and War have shown greater mind resistance than said Nosgoth aristocracy when? They have shown resistance against mind controlling magic when? I will answer....never! 🙂
Also wut? Cosmic is the better troll by far so far out of the two of you so you fail!
Funny how two people are bringing up daft claims in argument against someone who has actually played all the games concerning the characters here. (save Chains of Olmypus but that dunt count!) [/B]
Kratos has mind resistance, he resisted Zeus infecting him with fear.
Then he has resistance against fear, Kain doesnt use that at all. Hes never had anyone attempt to actual mind rape him, hes been manipulated mentally many times, his whole life is the result of that manipulation, only Kains not just going to promise power or corrupt him (although he could inspire hate him) hes just going to take over the reigns.
Sorry it took so damn long. Big multi-post coming through.
What? you dont have a clue what your talking about, Kain never, certainly not in his current form canonically fought a Sarafan at peak. Your not making sense.?
Raziel, fought Sarafan versions of his brothers, and himself. He was NOT fast enough to blitz them by any stretch of the imagination.
He beat them easy enough, but he was not outside of any of their ability to perceive. At all. These were merely fit human characters, in full plate armor,
and they were not too slow to be a non-threat to him or for him to be invisible to them. And 'peak' Kain's reaction time is on the same tier as Raziel's, undeniable.
It's not as if Kain got faster or more agile by any demonstrated amount as he matured as a vampire. More powerful and experienced, sure.
Young vampire Kain had an honest duel with King William when both wielded a Reaver, and it was not a mismatch. Kain openly said he
had to feed on William's blood to refill the blood he lost during that fight--that would imply an actual challenge was presented, yes? Would you care to demonstrate WHERE older Kain suddenly has speed/reflex feats that suddenly puts him orders of magnitude above younger him, raziel, and human reaction time in general?
Even top vampires like Janos or Vorodor were never so fast as to be beyond human perception, and both were executed by humans. It's funny, Janos even tried to take a swipe at Sarafan Raziel's face while they were executing him, and he dodged that just as one would dodge the flailing of any other human--and your arms move much faster than your legs, so even if he was running away, he would not have been beyond human perception. Humans like the Sarafan were never a non-threat to vampires. Hell, Sarafan Raziel was completely confident in having a solo fight with his future wraith self, whom he figured to be just another vampire. That alone says a lot, on top of actual fights we've seen. Kain is peak human + in speed. Around Batman level. Nothing more, Nothing less. Much more on all of this to come.
Its because your making it up or overhyping it, Kratos has never fought at such great speed.
Firstly, let us get something out of the way. My integrity/trustworthiness, is not the one in question. You are a pariah on this forum. You are among the least credible posters around here. You are a lone wolf, and no one buys the bullshit you're spitting for a moment. You do realize this, yes? Nor, am I the one that can be accused of 'overhyping' by bringing in non-sensical calcs that don't represent the actual visuals presented within the game itself. You were laughed at in CBR as well when you brought up this 'star core' shit as well; http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=390481&page=3 (I'd recommend reading the whole thread readers, its full of gems such as BT wondering matter of factly how substantial a NUKE would be to Kain.) I'm the one actually bringing feats. You have yet to demonstrate that Kain is some speedster, when he and his kin can't even demonstrate the ability to blitz human knights. I'm not the one that hypes feats beyond the actual visual demonstrations of the universe I'm talking about, for God of War (or any verse). I use terms that would actually apply to the universe in my appraisal of feats (terms like mountain level, city level, weight of the earth's crust etc) --whereas you, use terms, which would put Kain on mild speaking terms with someone like SUPERMAN--one immediately obvious character that can withstand the 'pressure of the core of the sun'. I only make this obvious so you can realize how dumb this is, and wisen the f*ck up, fool. Actually, no--You are simply being intellectually dishonest. You don't actually believe, ignoring temperature for a bit, that Kain can be in the center of the sun and not be damaged. (For those of you looking on and aren't familiar with KMC's game versus section, yes, this is absolutely the type of idiocy/fan wank we have to endure on the regular from this idiot.)
Kratos has actual physical speeds feat, outside of fighting people who have speed feats.
As an aside: You also can't be fast if your muscles are weak. Sprinters are buffer and stronger than normal people. And power lifters, work out their fast twitch muscles so greatly that they can even be competitive with pure sprinters for short distances--even though they are even more bulky. Speed cannot come without sufficient strength for your weight. Which is why large animals are so lumbering compared to tiny ones; because of the inherent square-cube law, large animals are much weaker for their size than small ones, and they are much slower because of this lower relative strength.
I only mentioned this, because even we didn't even HAVE feats, it would make more logical, scientific sense for Kratos to be far faster, seeing as his strength to weight ratio is ridiculously greater. But I'm sure this is just meaningless extrapolation, whereas the Star's Core PSI calc is air-tight science. Am I right?
Like I said though, much more on this soon. I'll bring some feats. (The Hermes feat in question is in the comics though, and I'm having trouble finding the scans again, so I might just drop it for now.)
Show me this happening and then show me the math youve done which shows how much more powerful that is than the core of our planets pressure. Yeh, again, very little knowledge also your listing is pointless, I could say Kratos was impaled like a mere mortal if I had your ignorance by Zeus with the Blade of Olmypus and try and claim it as a low showing but I wont because unlike you I am not ignorant of hte source material. The only time Raziel has injured Kain is when he uses the wraith blade to weaken him beforehand, canon shows that kain at peak can easily tank Raziels peak without so much as his skins elasticity being tested or a bruise forming. Oh and I am talking about an actual cutscene FMV, not your implications and ilogical deductions from gameplay and quick time events.
Firstly, let's take the time to use this star's core pressure shit against you, because that's far more pressing an issue here than anything else..
Do you know what you are guilty of? You are guilty of backing a wacky, canon faulty calc to further your agenda, and then declare that your character has a superior stat because others weren't idiotic enough to try to apply the same kind of math for another character. You DO realize that if we attempted this sort of math in the God of War universe, the numbers would be astronomically greater, right? Well let's end this shit right here:
My finger tip is about 1 centimeter wide. Let's just assume my finger tip and everything else that we speak of area wise, is a perfect circle(just to make things easier on us). So my finger's area would be .785 cm^2. As per your calcs, you've listed Raziel's two claw tips as being 2 mm^2 (1 mm^2 per claw). So my finger tip's area is a little over 78 times bigger than what you had for a single claw point. Now, Kratos' fingers are much bigger than mine being 8'6" (as stated in a bonus video in Gow3), roughly ~47% wider. Which would yield a finger tip area of 1.7 cm^2. Which is 170 times greater than the area of Raziel's claw tip.You do know what this means, correct? It means the force that Kratos produces only has to be 170 times greater (well more than that since he has more fingers than raz has claws) than what Raziel produced in that obelisk tipping feat in order to have the same PSI--since its obviously just a matter of division (force over area).
You know what the problem is? Kratos isn't simply 170 times stronger than Raziel. He's literally, BILLIONS of times stronger, and that's still being CONSERVATIVE. So there you go, Kratos produces millions of times the pressure of the core of a sun. Everytime Kratos is on one knee, and he presses his hand to his thigh while he's getting up--its a millions x star core pressure durability feat. : ) Everytime Kratos clenches his fist, and his fingers don't go right through his palm, its a millions x star core durability feat. And guess what dudebro, you can't deny the logic behind this, without destroying your own claim. Hell, on the other hand, I'm fine with it. You can have your star core pressure Kain and Raz. I'll gladly take my millions x star core pressure Kratos and have fun. 🙂
Smaller people than Kratos, like Link or Dante, would have to do even less since their fingers will be thinner than his. 🙂
Assuming Link/Dante's fingers are as big as mine, if either replicated the feat exactly as raz did, their fingers would still produce ~1/78 of whatever P.S.I. rating Raz's claw tips were doing--and since they don't fight with their fingers, it would be a moot point anyway, as we have no reason to believe that the Master Sword, Rebellion, and the Blood Reaver, all don't have comparable blade edges, width wise. But of course, part of the reason you even got such a high pressure output in the first place was because of a nonsensical estimation for the width of Raz' claw tips--which I will get to in a minute.
It was also funny how you talked as if Dante couldn't strike with millions of bars of pressure--provided the same math you used for Raziel was applied; considering if you low balled the hell out of dante he's still at least as strong as raziel and at least a THOUSAND of times faster inarguably, and his sword is far thinner than Raziel's claws. Therefore beating him in total force, and p.s.i. You dumb piece of shit. And you aren't a dumb ass for not realizing this, the fact is, you absolutely know this is true. You are a dumb ass because you already acknowledged this before, and now you've simply decided to pretend this never happened---you are being intellectually dishonest as **** and were caught; THAT is why you are a dumb ass:
Here's the quote from the respect thread
Thank God for the 15 minute edit window sometimes. Lest I wouldn't have caught you;
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=470105&pagenumber=6#post13561176
"I think theres a hole in your calculations , it would be the same for most video game characters anyway and the LoK physics are no different to real world when concerning calculation of damage, Kratos from GoW would likely be more, possibly Dante going at mach 15 would be able to deal similiar power if not far more etc. If you want to argue game vs math in general then go to the people who started it."
Oh, and you know what more? Let's deconstruct this even further. Because what I said above was a COMPLETE underselling of everything. Not only is Kratos far more than Billions of times stronger than Raz/Kain, who have zero feats of holding up 100 tons over their heads, but the area of Raz's claw tips are A LOT larger than 1 mm^2. I recall you saying somewhere that the tips of Raziel's claws are probably smaller than the width of an iron nail...lol...no. MAYBE, if you use the extremely low poly SR in game models. 1 mm^2 is comparable to the area of the tip of a ~3.6 inch iron nail (looking at some of mine), and Raziel's claw tips are most certainly larger than that. Let's demonstrate:
http://images.buddytv.com/usrimages/usr500053214/500053214_3984d6ce-2d81-4b2a-a116-066249ae91af-the-eye-of-raw-sr2-raziel.jpg
http://bestgamewallpapers.com/files/legacy-of-kain-defiance/raziel.jpg
http://www.gamingunion.net/newsimg/soul-reaver-coming-to-european-psn-tomorrow.jpg
http://static.desktopnexus.com/thumbnails/239147-bigthumbnail.jpg
http://www.double-helix.net/images/covers/Soul_Reaver.jpg
http://www.gameswelike.com/web/pix/SoulReaver/srintro09.jpg
http://gameswalls.com/wallpapers/l/legacy-of-kain-soul-reaver-2/soul-reaver-2-1.jpg
http://gameswalls.com/wallpapers/l/legacy-of-kain-defiance/raziel-4.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/vampires/images/f/fb/Kain.jpg
^Even this photo of Kain's claws--whose are less weathered than Raz's, are still blunt.
http://fil1969.deviantart.com/art/KAIN-AND-RAZIEL-207101949
^From this Defiance extracted model pic, (there are tools to do this, I just found it on deviantart) I can see that Raziel's claws are over 6 inches long (wraith Raziel is 5'10" according to designer Daniel Cabuco on the Eidos forum) from the fact that his right 'index' claw stacked together roughly takes ~11.25 of them stack up to what he would be if he was standing completely planted/erect, but then you have to keep in mind that the right 'index' claw is farther from the camera than his head is, so ~11.25 has to be considered a bit of an overestimate. Anyway, the point is his claw is over 6 inches long; 6.5 inches I'd say.
So from this, let's compare Raziel's claws to an iron nail, and how their tips compare at equal lengths (assuming that the nail is about ~3.6 long);
You see, even at equal lengths to the nail, the claw's tip is clearly a bit wider. And the difference becomes even more obvious when you scale it up to over 6 inches long for the big one. BTW, the small one is there just to show what I scaled up from. I cropped the claw from THIS render;
http://www.cosplayisland.co.uk/files/costumes/36/3915/sfondi%20raziel%206.jpg
A render that very generously makes his claw tips look very thin--but even with this, it becomes clear that when you scale it next to an iron nail, it certainly isn't as thin tip for tip, even at equal lengths.
You see from here in? Quite Dull. His claws are so damn large, that even with the amount of taper they have, its point still isn't that much smaller than a human finger. They are very large, and conical. Again, about the size of large T.Rex teeth (sans root). I'm going to call it here, that Raziel's claw tips are 2 millimeters wide a piece. And since I said I would use circles for simplicity, that 2 mm is the diameter, and thus the area of the circle will be ~3.14 millimeters^2. For ONE claw. For both of em together its obviously 6.28 millimeters^2. (Just for reference, to get 1 mm^2 for the area of one claw tip as a circle, the diamater would have to be 1.128 millimeters, so I am being generous in that 2 millimeters is less than twice that figure)
But seriously though....
How could you NOT think this faulty math could not backfire on you? You acquired this calc, in a verse where the main characters don't even have any single feat of lifting a 100 tons over their head, over even doing something as fictionally common as a break a large jeep sized boulder--which would be ~100 tons--physically.(with TK maybe)--and you got this on a virtue of a feat where a character tips over a mundane sized obelisk while noting a (significantly mis-attributed) claw width size. So how the ****...could you even ALLOW yourself to think, that using the same math/logic used for this relatively meek-verse (feat wise) on some other verse with visually and numerically far superior strength feats, that you ALSO wouldn't get insanely retarded calcs anyway? That's even ignoring that the math is completely infallible--and no reason to think it is, when Scenario was getting numbers far more sane--such as thousands of times over human flesh pressure resistance. And funny enough, Blood Rain along with using some of Paste figures in the respect thread, ALSO got some figures for it. And their P.S.I. readings are also puzzlingly different, and when their figure is actually compared to the P.S.I. ratings on known occurences and phenomena, it actually makes a shit ton more sense. And why is there such an astonishing difference between P.S.I. calcs between BR/Paste vs. Dadumon/Morridini? Because as I said earlier, partly because of an overly generous (too small) value for Raz' claw tips, and mostly, because the math got f*cked up, which we'll see.
Let's quote the respect thread calc posts again:
BR:
Kinda my figures, ah may as well post:First off is the measurements; Kain's height is 1.9m compared to other humans in the game that I assume are 6ft/1.83m. Kain being 1.9m makes Raziel 1.75 in comparison.
Obelisks tip;
The square based pyramid tips height is equal to its lengths which are equal to Raziel's height.V= 1/3 b2*h
V= 1/3 175^2*175
V= 1/3 30,625*175
V= 1/3 5,359,375V= 1,786,458.33 cm3
Density = 2.6 g/cm3 [granite type density]1,786,458.33*2.6 = 4,644,791.66 g = 5.12tons.
Obelisks frustum body;
The base of the obelisk is 2x Raziel's height at 350cm. The height is 4x the base for 1,400cmPyramidal frustum volume = ⅓h(a1+a2+(√a1*a2))
h is height, a1 is area of base square and a2 is area of top square.
= (1400cm/3)*(350cm^2+175cm^2+√(350cm^2*175cm^2))
= 466.666*(122500+30625+√3751562500)
= 466.666*(122500+30625+61250)
= 466.666*214375
= 100,041,524cm3100,041,524*2.6 = 260,107,962 g = 286.719949 tons
286.719949 ton body + 5.12 ton tip = 291.839949 tons.
But because a friend has another way of calcing it that had slightly higher results I'll use the middle ground of 300 tons.
Raziel's lifts the obelisk up to his chest, around 80% of his full body height, in 1 second.
= 1.4m/sJoules;
Joules = (Mass*Velocity2)/ 2
= (272,155.422kg*1.4m/s^2)/ 2
= (272,155.422*2)/ 2 [Velocity is 2 due to some issue I can't recall so I upped it... may get back to that]
= 272,155.422 JoulesPSI;
Claw tip = estimate 1mm^2 = 0.04in2
= area of 0.0016in2
= 0.0032 for two claws[Credit to Scream for this next part since its an edit of his post]
272,155.422 J272,155.422 N
1N = 0.224808943 foot pound force.
272,155.422 N = 61148/0.0032 = 19108750 lb/i^2
Raziel's claw PSI = 19,108,750 lbs = 9,554.375 tons
/shrugs/ Make of it what you will.
vs.
D and M's;
Sorry to double post but this is what Morridini and I have come up with so far;At first I thought you just turned the Newtons 1.868MN into mass (100g=1N?) but Morridini pointed out this was simply in relation to gravity and pointed out I was better off just adding the force shown previously to the force created by Raziels body moving at speed.
Just to be clear, the number 0.000002064512 meters squared is the estimated area of Raziels two very claw tips on games vs, 0.0032 inches squared or 2mm squared. Pressure = force/area in meters squared so I made sure all the measurements were correct as I understood.
-------------------------------Raziels weight+MN force (Morridinis formula)-------------------------
previous known force; 1868000 Newtons
Raziels rough weightx acceleration= mass; 72.5747792 kg x 50 acceleration= 3628.73896 N
This force added to previous force= 1871628.73896 N
Pressure;
1871628.73896N/ 0.000002064512 (meters squared)= 906571983577.71715543431086862174 pascals. Equivalent to 9065719.835777171 bar (roughly 9 million, equivelant to almost 3x the Earths core pressure per 0.0032 inch squared. Also equel to 65 743.5776 tons per 0.0032 inch squared.
-------Square inches-------
There are 322.58 ,0.0032 inches squared (or 2mm squared) in a square inch. Therefore, 9065719.835777171 bar x 322.58 means Kain has 2924419904.62499982118 bar (2.9 billion bar, roughply 800 times the earths core pressure) of resistance to pressure per square inch. Or 21207563 tons (21.2 million tons) per square inch of force.
------Square meter----------
How many 0.0032 inch squared are there in 1 full square meter? = 1 550.0031 (square inches in a meter)/0.0032= 484375.96875, 0.0032's
Over a square meter? = 9065719.835777171 bar x 484375.96875= 4.3 trillion bar per square meter. A square meter of Kains top skin layer can take pressures equel to 17.5 times the suns core pressure. Equel to 32871788393.4453 tons (32.8 billion tons) per square meter.
BR/Paste's calc got a tons per square inch reading of almost 10,000 tons (9,554.375 tons). D and M got 21 million tons (21,207,563 tons) P.S.I. Naturally, you chose to immediately adopt the higher figure whole-heartedly over BR's, which seemed to go unacknowledged. Hmmm...let's see how the hell that happened. Well firstly, BR/Paste's newton figure for the whole feat was 272,155.422 N. D and M got a newton figure of 1,871,628.73896 N. That's greater by a multiple of almost 7. I don't know how such a big difference came about, but whatever. It's only single digit multiples for this one so I'll leave it be. HOWEVER. You both used the same area for the tips.
.00000206 meters^2 = .0032 inches^2. So HOW THE HELL, did your guys get to 21 million tons per square inch vs ~9,500 tons per square inch? That's over 2,200 times bigger, and yet your Newtons figure was only 7 times greater while using the same area.
Let's turn BR's figure into pascals and bar and compare from there.
272,155 N/.00000206 meters^2 = 132,114,077,669.9 pascals. which is 1,321,140.78 bar. (just dividing by 100,000). Both figures are almost 7 times smaller than your pascal and bar figures respectively, so as of this point we're all still on the same page. However...upon reaching the tons per square inch figure, we reach the huge divide already laid out before. 21 million tons per square inch vs 9,500 tons per square inch. Over 2000 times difference. Someone here ****ed up on the conversion. And which side ****ed up? Your side did.
http://www.asknumbers.com/PressureConversion.aspx
^Check and make sure with this pressure conversion site if you don't believe me.
From there, I'm converting the pascals I got using BR's newton figure, and I get that 132,114,077,669.9 pascals equals 19,161,526.98 PSI and 9,580.76 tons per square inch.Which is about the same as what BR got originally in his conversions. So now we know BR's calc was fine. Using your original pascal figure in the conversion site, gives us 131,487,149.83 PSI and 65,743.57 tons per square inch. Both figures, which are once again, almost 7 times higher than BR's numbers. There. The clusterf*ck of confusion on this front is over. However, these numbers still too astronomically high for the verse, so moving forward.
Now for the other matter. The area is too damn small 1 mm^2 per area is too too small. I already have the iron nail comparison pic, and I said I would go with 2 mm diameter for the tip, which gives us an area of ~3.14 mm^2. ( π * radius²) So 3.14 mm^2 for one claw. 6.14 mm^2 for two. But the thing is, Raziel is NOT just using two claws for the feat. He is using both hands, so 4 claw points are tilting up the obelisk from under it. Your calc (and even BR's calc), only used two claw points for some reason, but he didn't flip it over with one hand, so I'm at a loss. The only thing I could possibly think of that was being done on your end at least was putting all the force of the feat into Raziel striking Kain with one hand, which would NOT work because the feat of the obelisk was basically a dead lift, and you can't possibly create the same kind of force from just swiping an arm or even kicking. It would be but a fraction of the force.
So anyway, 3.14 mm^2 for one claw tip, 12.56 mm^2 for four claw tips.
I'm going to use both BR's newton figure as well as the one from D & M over this area, and see what we get.
For BR: 21,668,391,719.74 pascal, 216,683.91 bar, and 3,142,734.52 psi.
For latter's: 148,933,121,019.1 pascal, 1,489,331.2 bar, and 21,600,922.98 psi.
(For the record, I trust BR's original newton figure more, as he clearly was not the one who made blunders, ergo I find any figures scaled from his, to be
more trustworthy until further notice.)
So 3.1 million psi up to 21.6 million psi. Points of references for those figures? Sure. There are recent tests with bullet proof vests using
nanomaterials, and they were shown to be stable from impacts of up to at least 5 million psi. Here. And carbon steel can have modulus of elasticity around 30 million psi. Even with the adjustments, these figures are still frankly far too high for the verse, as we will see soon with videos.
But before we do that, let's inject a bit or reality into the situation;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZjhxuhTmGk
The above is a video of a test where an f4 phantom jet is launched at a thick concrete wall at 500 mph, to test the durability of the wall.
http://www.iasmirt.org/iasmirt-3/SMiRT10/DC_250401
^Here's a pdf about the results of the test. From the graphs, it is possible to see that the maximum force recorded was over 180,000,000 N. Almost 100 times greater than the Newton figure from the calc that you're backing. As far as I can derive from some scale drawings, the area of the jet's nose tip is about 4.5 inches^2, which to be sure is significantly bigger than the 3.14 mm^2 per claw tip I gave you (or even the total of 12.56 mm^2) for Raziel and the bar figure comes out to over 620,000 bar, but the funny thing is when you realize that a tiny modification like fastening an iron nail to the nose, would've yielded pressure figures that would completely SMASH your original shitty numbers. You talked about the original 9 million+ bar figure so proudly, this tiny modification would've yielded real life numbers in a man made non-nuclear test of nearl 900 million bar--or 247 times earth's core pressure. All because a jet had a nail attached to it while crashing into something. 🙂 Oooooh. So monumental! The point is, doofus, that impulse matters. Who cares if Raziel and a jet with a nail on it can produce bar figures greater than the bar figure of the Earth's core for only small fractions of a moment? The longer, the better. The entire calc that I've responded to was a waste of time. Faulty, Discardable in comparison to the canon, and ultimately useless, not unlike most of your posts regarding topics involving Kain.
I don't even blame the dudes who did the math, it seems like it was just for fun. You've been irresponsible as hell with it though, throwing the figures around as if you actually understood a damn thing, or that it made sense. You poor, sad, dumb motherf*cker.
Now, for the videos I was talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7jvu-Q3LoQ
^5:47. Kain is forced to break down a wall that is cracked, and then gets discovered by a guard. This is the first of dozens of times that Kain and Raziel are forced to find compromised walls to gain entry. No hundreds of earth core pressure here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhDQWmV3-9o&feature=related
^seconds in. kain can't even kick through a lock that fell on a door. star core pressure my ass. (video before he had to strike at the weak part of a wall to cave it through. And then its depth was only a couple of feet anyway)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_eka-oNC2g&feature=related
^2:53. Kain kicks a wooden door, and all it does is splinter a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udNRhswVhGI&feature=related
^5:12. Raziel admits the edge of the temple of light's entrance is too high to reach. And its maybe 20-25 feet high. His leg strength, certainly can't be too high then can it? And if his leg strength isn't so great, the rest of him certainly isn't either. Can't vertically jump 25 feet, but can produce hundreds of earth core pressure on claws....lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SopetEStB0E&feature=related
^3:50. Another light temple edifice, that Raziel admits is too high for his vertical leap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8DDI8QgpFU
^3:35. Raz collects Zephon's soul, and the Elder God tells him he can now scale CERTAIN walls, which were otherwise 'impassable'. If he was star core pressure, or even earth core pressure, at his tips, how, pray tell, why can he only scale CERTAIN walls? Shouldn't any wall be child's play for scaling? But daw...Raz can only scale softer, smoother walls. So sad. What's that? Your response is that he just needs walls to be smooth? That doesn't stop human rock climbers does it? Still no star core/earth core pressure output for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffo7uGvjQp4&feature=related
^4:25. As Raz goes to imbue his reaver with the conflict/nature guardians' souls, some boulders drop to block off one of his paths...but...can't his claws produce hundreds of times the pressure of the earth's core? how could those boulders possibly stop him? Raz just doesn't know his own strength surely...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpWP9e-iQj8&feature=related
^3:52. Raziel admits that he can't move the doors of Kain's citadel. He reasons that they are either barred from the other side, or simply rusted shut. But...how is this possible? Couldn't he have just wrecked that door with his 900 billion pascals + producing claws? It's just something like iron or ungalvansized/non-stainless steel afterall...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIJyDC9KtOA&feature=related
^:10. Raziel can't even budge the doors of Vorador's mansion door. No hundreds of earth core pressure in his claws to be seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsFYJb4atgk&feature=related
^6:02. Raziel mentions the sarafan fortress he just escaped out would be difficult to get back into. A large, mostly wooden gate he says is his only way back in, yet he needs to find a way to operate the crystal above the gate to get it to open...why can't he simply tear into it with his hundreds of earth's core pressure producing claws? The doors aren't that deep either, maybe 3 or 4 feet when we see them open, and they arestill mostly wood even on the other size.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh26jrgXHX0&feature=related
^2:46. Raziel comes across an old rusted door that has already been caved in out of its hinges. Raziel has to kick it twice before finally dislodging it. Does no damage to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca5-ne5T1sQ
^Raziel cuts into William's coffin, and does nothing more than fracture it from the top to its midsection. As these before and after screen caps show;
And no, despite what it may have looked like while he was doing it, he did not cleave the coffin clean in two, otherwise the Reaver would not still be standing upright, embedded in it, it would slip to the ground as nothing would be holding it in place if the two pieces were cleanly cleaved. Kain was threatened by this attack, and in the normal timeline KILLED by this attack--an attack which is obviously nowhere near star core pressure. Hell no.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYnOARy-Fo0&feature=related
^6:26. Raziel gets the Air Reaver. Uh Oh. Things are starting to look bad for you. Why? Because at 7:24-8:11, upon nearing the exit, Raziel reaches a cracked door. And he blasts through the door with his new reaver and he says; 'This elemental reaver I discovered, had the power to obliterate barriers that were cracked or compromised. At last I had the means to open that ruined time streaming chamber I discovered so long ago in the swamps!'. AWWWWW. Isn't that cute. Poor Raziel needs a magical weapon to get through ~1 foot deep, cracked walls/doors. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thHYxhfEuzU&feature=related
^4:59. He then finally gets back to the swamp and blasts the cracked door that he couldn't pass before hand. If only he realized his hundreds of earth core psi producing claws, he wouldn't have had to go through all the trouble of finding the air reaver forge.🙁 This also gels perfectly with the fact that in Defiance, Kain and Raziel have to repeatedly break through walls that were already severely cracked, with their respective reavers. Can you call this a P.I.S. level low feat? NO. Because its not contradicted anywhere prior, OR later. Within the same game that you claim Kain has this hundreds of earth core pressure per square inch durability, we have a feat meant to be impressive by the reaver...that could be accomplished by a rocket propelled grenade...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY6SckgHgyQ
^Oh dear me. The Melchiah fight...Well now. You laud Kain's cutscene where he was knocked about by a few of Raziel's blows, but came out no worse for wear apparently, but surely you recall that Kain was not the first to 'tank' Raziel's claws? 🙂
Melchiah did so before anyone else BT. Raz's claws were useless against him, and Melchiah laughed at you whenever you tried to strike him. And yet...some rusty spiked bars, falling on him simply powered by gravity, is enough to cause him major bleeding. But my dear BT, if 'evolved' Melchiah is equal to or greater than peak Kain in durability via comparative showings against Raz's claws, where is Melchiah's hundreds of times earth's core pressure per square inch durability? Perhaps those rusty spiked bars were lazer sharpened to be hundreths of a nanometer? Yeah...surely then everything would still gel together ok. Yes, I do believe that is the explanation there. 🙂
And oh! Related to that...as the Elder God says after you kill Melchiah, barriers like gates are no longer an 'impediment to you in the spectral realm'. Which means...they obviously ARE an impediment in the physical realm. Maybe Raziel's just dumb. Maybe he doesn't realize that he could slice through thin iron/steel gates and cell bars with his hundreds of times earth core pressure producing claws. Actually, I guess that makes the Elder God quite dumb too, his relative omniscience to the LoK verse doesn't seem so great now, he doesn't even know that Raziel could rend those gates like cheese if he had to. Heh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyqnHc_syM4
^Oh. And of course the Dumah fight. Raziel could not harm him, and just like Melchiah before him laughed at Raziel's strikes, and had to resort to an explosive furnace. Oh, and of course lets not forget that prior to Raz ressurecting him, Dumah was impaled by three large spikes and Raziel was not surprised by this. How could this happen? Raziel, notes that Dumah was a 'powerful warrior in life', meaning that even while they all were 'alive' and served Kain, that Raz despite being the eldest had a clear reason to respect Dumah's power. Dumah has a portion of Kain's soul, he logically should've had even has a PORTION of Kain's durability thus. So how could Dumah possibly be impaled by human weapons if he even had a portion of Kain's Nuke+ level durability? It's not like Kain gave only billionth's of a portion of his soul to ressurect Raziel and the other five, after all Melchiah was the weakest because he was made last, and thus got the smallest portion of his soul--meaning Kain spared all that he could of his soul to make them. Do we have a reason to believe that pre-wraith Dumah was meant to be billions of times less durable than Kain? Nah. F*ck that. Raziel, who you will not admit is THAT much below Kain in physical ability, died and thus never went through the evolution that his brothers did--and he STILL was able to fight and hurt Kain somewhat after gaining nothing but Melchiah phase ability. And since he clearly respected Dumah's strength even while they were vampires, they obviously weren't that far apart, so obviously Dumah having gone through his thousand plus years of evolution was above Wraith Raziel or at least still comparable (since at the very least, the Elder God said Raz's physical strength as a wraith surpassed what he knew as a vampire when he came across his first movable block), but that didn't stop him from being impaled when he did. So a guy who was at least comparable to wraith raziel via powerscaling, still couldn't tank being impaled by large, human spikes, and we both know Kain is not billions of times more durable than Raziel. More on this later.
What's that?! You say that neither of those guys were hit by Raziel's claws in a cutscene? Ergo, its not proven?
Well firstly, you're wrong, because it wasn't a gameplay mechanic when Raziel was forced to win by exterior means, it was the plot, as seen by them dying in cutscenes by those same exterior means. (He certainly didn't try those methods for the sake of being creative.) You can make their children bleed with your claws, but you get a reaction of laughter when you hit either Dumah or Melchiah yourself. That goes beyond gameplay mechanics/balance by logical deduction, and into author intent. Oh. And guess what. You yourself have agreed to their durability being so great! Here in this thread from 07 (http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f85/t460991.html), you called Melchiah and Dumah durable; "Melchiah is nearly invincible and can go immaterial, the DMC would have to hack him to pieces or dissintegrate him, not to menstion Dumah is also nearly indestructable but is susceptable to fire." But what was this based on? According to what you would say, they don't have any 'cutscene durability' feats! Then surely you were counting the fact that Raziel can do nothing but make them laugh on his own. 🙂 Here, another one; this one from 08 (http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f85/t477031.html); "Dante ofcourse, Dumah as durable and strong as he is i think would be too slow to defeat Dante and would eventually succumb to death or at least become spirit". Hell, here's something from just LAST year, 2010; (http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php? threadid=526100&pagenumber=10): "No, I have seen a stronger Raziel deal no damage to Dumah." And this was in response to FinalAnswer saying Kain could be pierced by a human, rationalizing that Kain is more durable than a guy that Raziel could not hurt (Dumah), as your reason for this not being possible. Hell, we'll go even more recent than that, which also shows that you agree; http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=551930&pagenumber=6 From that thread, you were arguing with Scenario about the durability of the dumahim and stated: "Why would raziel look for other means of killing them if their not durable and able to be ripped into piecies? You also misunderstand the use of spears, water etc, because its a constant period of damage meaning it will stay inside them unlike his claws, hence why when water recedes vampires come back to life, when spears are pulled out etc. If Raziel could tear them into piecies with his super strength, he would not need water, the sun etc." Beautiful. We agree. Raziel specifically stated that 'physical wounds are fleeting, vampires' immortal flesh begins to close as soon as it is cleaved' when he met the dumahim, and basically all but ruled out his claws as a permanent option and stated impalment, flame, water, or sunlight were his only sure options. There we go. And this combined with the fact that these are fledglings, only lends more credence to the notion that Dumah and Melchiah laugh off physical strikes because they were deliberately meant to be shown superior to their offspring.
What changed your opinion? Perhaps because people increasingly began claiming over time that Dumah > Kain durability? Since the former can laugh at claw strikes and wraith blade strikes and the latter can not? Or does it truly change at all, or just shift at convenience? 😉
But you know what? It doesn't matter if you changed your opinion or not. Let's use some of your own logic from that same thread against you. In that same thread, beginning on page 8, you were pushing THIS gameplay attack as an attack speed/reflex feat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF1S2bo6cSg&feature=player_embedded
^From 1:08-1:10. Firstly, it's not an impressive feat at all, as BR said a single slash is about .3+ seconds, and humans can react on average at .25 seconds to visual stimuli(here, before you ask. ). Secondly, back on page 10, when BR said: "Just to humour me, when in any cutscene has he demonstrated any reaction time above normal? As you know that would end this.", you had THIS to say in response; "It should have ended already. Not sure if I recall him doing so in a cutscene, hes never had to." And then, you said this on page 11 regarding the validity of the attack as a speed/reflex feat; "Its a static move for a PC, this means its not really under gameplay balance, what I am using is a scripted event not relevent to gameplay mechanics. The player himself is not deciding what happens between each teleport either so its as scripted as a cutscene. I posted the proof, you read it?"
Wonderful! This works out perfectly! Since the teleport slash move can be considered a 'scripted event', then SURELY, the game designers creating a laughter animation for Melchiah and Dumah, recording a laughter SOUND for Melchiah and Dumah, and then SCRIPTING the game to launch the laughter animation/sound upon Raziel attempting to harm them physically in anyway, makes the laughter events a scripted, non-'gameplay balance' related event. 🙂
Also, didn't you JUST ever so proudly state that you don't use 'gameplay' or 'QTEs' and only actual FMV scenes? Oh. Too bad for you then. Another instance of you shown to be an oblivious hypocrite.
You're pathetic as shit. Completely inconsistent, contradictory, and all dependent on how convenient it is for your stance at any particular time. Your blindness for Kain makes you such an easy target BT. I'd be ashamed for you, if I didn't consider you as fun to watch as a train wreck.
Moving on;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpaw2P5xagM
^Janos' death. Well now. He got cut open by an iron or steel bladed weapon by a HUMAN Raziel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waQB-wgLmao
^And related to this. Vorador's execution. Death by guillotine.
Now, before you say anymore allow me to intercept you. Yes, Moebius' Staff is present in both scenes, but unfortunately, you will find NOTHING that states Moebius' staff reduces the durability of a vampire. Nothing. All it does is immobolize a vampire through pain. Moebius specifically says the staff's orb "disables our vampire enemies, leaving them helpless and incapacitated", in the very beginning of SR2. It doesn't make their skin, muscles, or bones any softer. Kain was affected in the beginning of Defiance just the same as Vorador and Janos was by Moebius' staff UNTIL, he no longer had the heart of darkness, so you can say that it causes pain for a vampire as long it has a heart. Nothing more, Nothing less. Tell me then, is Kain billions of times more durable than Vorador and Janos? Vorador who was like a mentor to Kain and centuries his elder and more evolved? Janos, who was the very father of the vampire race, and who Vorador proudly claimed to be the 'greatest of us all.' when Raziel approach his comatose, heartless body in Defiance? Kain is billions of times more durable than these people eh? Based on what? What sort of bullshit will you pull here? They are the same race, so even footing there, Vorador and Janos are MUCH older, so advantage to them there. But let's say you try to spin more bullshit with Kain as the 'scion of balance' as the answer then? But unfortunately that does not increase his durability at all, does it? You will find nothing saying the scion of balance title amps your physical stats in anyway. In fact, you yourself called it, "Roughly, Scion of balance is just a title, its the fact his fate cannot be changed means he cannot die.", on page 10 of the last thread I linked to, so unfortunately you leave yourself no room whatsoever to spin more webs of bullshit. 🙂
And on this note back to Dumah, there was no form of magic known to be involved when Dumah and his clan were nearly wiped out either by humans, let alone any magic specifically involved to lower Dumah's durability so he could be impaled, so no speculation there please when there is no such information. All we know is that they were careless and then taken off guard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fe27VpuhlI
^5:56.Oh, what's more, here Raziel after fighting the Hylden possessed Janos, we see Janos lying on the floor, bleeding, but still clearly alive, after his fight with Raziel. Tell me, how could this contradiction exist without making shit up? Janos was cut open by a human in Sarafan Raziel, and yet after fighting Wraith Raziel he doesn't have anything more than a little bit of bleeding? Shouldn't Janos have been bisected, indeed 'cut like confetti' by Raziel's hundreds of earth core pressure producing claws--not to mention having the reaver on top of it? Afterall, its not like Raziel wasn't trying, he clearly said he would destroy Janos' body if he had to. Perhaps you'll try to make up some more bullshit by saying the Hylden somehow amps the durability of whatever host they have taken? But, no, that would clearly be bullshit wouldn't it? They talked about the frailness of Mortanius as a host, and they mentioned Turel as being a 'durable' host, so no, they seek to possess things durable enough to last long enough for whatever task they have in mind, and as visible in Mortanius, Turel, and Janos, Hylden possession clearly causes pain--so clearly Hylden possession puts a strain on the body, it does not amplify it in anyway. Indeed Turel himself said when he was about to fight Raziel that his blood would strengthen him against 'them', as the in the Hylden possessing him. Amy Hennig also says as much, that Hylden possession strains hosts and that being 'gentle' with hosts makes them last longer;in this interview. So Hylden possession does not alter durability in anyway and if it does affect it at all, its not in a positive manner. Perhaps things are getting clear now that your calc is complete bullshit? Just maybe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHsm_NEXDXE&feature=related
^10:21 to end. And, oh, related to Janos' death. In the video I linked just earlier of his death, a dying Janos said to Raziel that least he could save Raziel's life. Save his life, from what? Obviously from the handful of sarafan warriors that ambushed him and Raziel, as shown in this video where Janos teleports Raziel out of the place out of the objective of saving him. But doesn't Janos know that Kain, Raziel's sire, is able to shrug off nukes? What could those Sarafan guys have possibly had that could then hurt Raziel if he's even a significant fraction of Kain's durability? I'm thinking they were all planning to martyr themselves with compact self-destructing nukes attached to their belts just to off Raziel with Janos, but then when they found Janos alone, who is obviously billions of times less durable than Raziel and Kain, they just decided to chop him up and take the heart instead, right?
I can accept Peak Kain being more powerful than Janos and Vorador, but he's not more durable than them by any huge multiplier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Je-DmVsUyM&feature=related
^6:49-9:48. Oh sweet lord. Now it gets really good. Raziel's first fight while wielding the physical soul reaver, 'blood reaver' if you will. He fights human versions of Melchiah and Zephon as sarafan generals. Oh dear, what does he say after the fight? He said 'the blade had a vitalizing effect on me. My physical energy no longer decayed over time. And the WOUNDS inflicted by my foes healed almost instantly.'Lol. Melchiah and Zephon had nothing but human swords, and they were able to injure him by his own admission. Just go ahead and say Kain is billions of times more durable than Raziel, so we can have more reason to roll our eyes at you as you sink your credibility even further. 🙂
