Originally posted by Burning thought
I like how you hypocrtically replied to my post, complaining about things I apprently did while doing it yourself.
Prove I did the things I accused you of.
Also what evidence do I need other than pointing out why his is wrong,
Counter-evidence that refutes it, obviously. Or even just something more than sidestepping it entirely.
if hes claiming something while using evidence, thats not evidence at all then I cant create counter evidence until I agree hes got evidence to suggest something.
CC's posts are riddled with quotations and links to videos. Your post consisted of words.
Oh, and I should point out the flaws in some of your claims, such as claiming that the Leviathans Kratos were fighting for some reason were moving slower than they were in the cutscene.
And Dumah is never impaled, hes burned to death, not being able to damage bosses in a regular manner or just smashing them down is common in games, including GoW, you can only harm the boss in certain ways, this is indeed a mechanic of gameplay true for many bosses.
Yeah no. Kratos is able to injure every boss normally (In every game I have played, anyway), by attacking them, they bleed. This is not the same for Dumah.
Sorry, got Dumah confused with the other vampire, who was also immune to Raziel's claws.
Define "cling blindly"?
You accept it above others only because it is more impressive.
It sounds just like a baiting sentence that, the math speaks for itself
I'd like to see you prove it, since people who have demonstrated more credibiliy in the area of mathematics seem to disagree.
and is made by generally unbias people unlike those in games vs
That's an appeal to motive fallacy, arguing that they are lowballing the math in an effort to make Kain look less impressive, without actually acknowledging the math done itself.
who dont really know whats what anyway.
You seem to be under the impression that your grasp of math is better than Shin's and BloodRain's, can you prove this?
And theres nothing that makes it less impressive than what it really is.
I guess if you discount CC's post demonstrating that the size of the claw tips are not what you think they are and that, obviously, since he used two arms to topple the obelisk, all fingers should be counted, not just the ones on one hand.
Thats pretty much all he did though,
Wrong.
only really badly and without having any idea of the game hes talking about
It's hard to take this seriously when you seem to be under the impression that Kratos is a slow, lumbering brute, meaning you can't of played the games.
and using poor comparisons.
Care to point them out?
Hes making all the claims, I made no new claims therefore I needed no new evidence,
Wrong. You truly refute someone's point, counter-evidence must be provided, or at least a logical, constructive argument that sufficiently addresses every point wholly. You have provided neither.
only to tell him using a random video and adding some sarcastic banter or bashing does not help his case.
If by "random video" you mean evidence to support his claims, then yes, he provided "random videos". Which is more than you can say.
That he bashed you is irrelevant to whether or not his argument is
Hes lucky he got any counter posts at all and I didnt just ignore his fairly pointless posts.
"No u" is not an argument.
I guess I should speak on this thread.
Kratos uses vastly superior strength and superior speed to cut Kain in half, since one doesn't need to use a calculation to know that Kratos with a bladed weapon is going to be able to produce magnitudes more pressure than Raziel with his claws. As for controlling Kratos' mind, Kratos resisted Ares' mindrape well enough.
Yep. As expected
Long winded post consisting of nothing but butt-hurt drivel, that did nothing to counter the immense contradictions you've cornered yourself into,
employed lots of 'begging the question'/circular reasoning, claiming I didn't address certain things like their math when I DID specifically, labeling things incorrectly as gameplay mechanics again when all I used was plot, and then conveniently calling something that favors you not gameplay mechanic when it clearly would be by your same definitions for mine. 🙂
Also. Kratos has broken through walls several times in cutscenes. Him not doing so in the gameplay is clearly the mechanic. On the other hand, Raziel and Kain have never done anything like that in cutscenes and utterly failed at breaking certain things in cutscenes that your calc would imply should be no impediment to them.
Also, fool, its Amy Hennig, not Herrig. I've known that name since I was 10, reading the official playstation magazine, reading interviews with her. But I can't blame you, you clearly aren't as invested in the LoK verse. 🙂
Amy 'Herrig' said the wraith blade being absorbed heals Kain? Well, who is the Wraith Blade inexorably part of again? 🙂
If the insults bother you so much, just ignore them. They don't invalidate anything, that was me simply having fun at your expense.
Unfortunately for you, everything I stated on my side, has actually happened. You are still clinging to math that was invalidated many times over.
Go argue Kain vs Pre-Recton Beyonder somewhere. I know you've seriously made an attempt at it before. Maybe you'll succeed this time?
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Also. Kratos has broken through walls several times in cutscenes. Him not doing so in the gameplay is clearly the mechanic. On the other hand, Raziel and Kain have never done anything like that in cutscenes and utterly failed at breaking certain things in cutscenes that your calc would imply should be no impediment to them.
Well, if Kratos has indeed broken through walls or doors in cutscenes, and Kain or Raziel have not, then yeah, there's no double standard (I forget if this is true or not, admittedly).
Though, wouldn't Raziel's obelisk tipping kind of contradict being unable to go through a wall, depending on the structure?
That's the thing. He needed to use the obelisk's fall to break through an obstruction to Dumah's throne room that he otherwise couldn't pass. So one would think it would contradict based on the feat itself, but the implications of it contradicts every other explicit showing and statements (such as statements from the Elder God that I've mentioned.)
Originally posted by CosmicComet
That's the thing. He needed to use the obelisk's fall to break through an obstruction to Dumah's throne room that he otherwise couldn't pass. So one would think it would contradict based on the feat itself, but the implications of it contradicts every other explicit showing and statements (such as statements from the Elder God that I've mentioned.)
Huh.
What?
That doesn't make sense.
Weren't the calculations for that obelisk like 300 friggin' tons?
What was blocking his way?
Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove I did the things I accused you of.Counter-evidence that refutes it, obviously. Or even just something more than sidestepping it entirely.
CC's posts are riddled with quotations and links to videos. Your post consisted of words.
Oh, and I should point out the flaws in some of your claims, such as claiming that the Leviathans Kratos were fighting for some reason were moving slower than they were in the cutscene.
Yeah no. Kratos is able to injure every boss normally (In every game I have played, anyway), by attacking them, they bleed. This is not the same for Dumah.
Sorry, got Dumah confused with the other vampire, who was also immune to Raziel's claws.
You accept it above others only because it is more impressive.
I'd like to see you prove it, since people who have demonstrated more credibiliy in the area of mathematics seem to disagree.
That's an appeal to motive fallacy, arguing that they are lowballing the math in an effort to make Kain look less impressive, without actually acknowledging the math done itself.
You seem to be under the impression that your grasp of math is better than Shin's and BloodRain's, can you prove this?
I guess if you discount CC's post demonstrating that the size of the claw tips are not what you think they are and that, obviously, since he used two arms to topple the obelisk, all fingers should be counted, not just the ones on one hand.
Wrong.
It's hard to take this seriously when you seem to be under the impression that Kratos is a slow, lumbering brute, meaning you can't of played the games.
Care to point them out?
Wrong. You truly refute someone's point, counter-evidence must be provided, or at least a logical, constructive argument that sufficiently addresses every point wholly. You have provided neither.
If by "random video" you mean evidence to support his claims, then yes, he provided "random videos". Which is more than you can say.
That he bashed you is irrelevant to whether or not his argument is
"No u" is not an argument.
I guess I should speak on this thread.
Kratos uses vastly superior strength and superior speed to cut Kain in half, since one doesn't need to use a calculation to know that Kratos with a bladed weapon is going to be able to produce magnitudes more pressure than Raziel with his claws. As for controlling Kratos' mind, Kratos resisted Ares' mindrape well enough.
Your doing it now, your claiming things and pretty much using "no u" reasoning to say I was wrong.
You dont use counter evidence to refute something thats not evidence, nor to refute a baseless claim.
They were, mostly things that had no basis on what he was trying to prove, like how apprently Kain being seen moving 2 meters in mist form and being seen by the guards as he appears/transforms means hes slow....theres a lot of things that dont really mean anything assuming you can find them beneath the bashing.
He cant defeat most bosses without following a specific set of events, half the time he cant break the skin until hes "weakened" it and a circle appears above its head, their just different ways of a boss battle, still all mechanics. Saying that Raziel cant just slash every vampire to death in the gameplay therefore hes not that strong is pointless.
No, I have said why I accept it above others, the source is unbias and better informed on the subject. Also I am using math thats just as proven as anyone elses.
More under the impression neither of them know LoK, I am also under the impression M and D being unbias are a better source, not sure where I said i was better at math although some of the things they come out with make no sense.
Although I did acknowledge the math, I just pointed out the fact its also a lowball.
He made measurements the same as anyone else, that came to a few extra millimeters at best.
Also as for the rest, its a "no u" argument from you here as well, only the difference is your making new claims, I was not. Also if you think he made some really good, evidence full claims then quote one, seems to me your just choosing the guy you would rather back, youve yet to actually point out reason or why.
Also if you want to argue it, you made the claim for Superior speed, maybe you can do a better job than cosmic.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yep. As expectedLong winded post consisting of nothing but butt-hurt drivel, that did nothing to counter the immense contradictions you've cornered yourself into,
employed lots of 'begging the question'/circular reasoning, claiming I didn't address certain things like their math when I DID specifically, labeling things incorrectly as gameplay mechanics again when all I used was plot, and then conveniently calling something that favors you not gameplay mechanic when it clearly would be by your same definitions for mine. 🙂Also. Kratos has broken through walls several times in cutscenes. Him not doing so in the gameplay is clearly the mechanic. On the other hand, Raziel and Kain have never done anything like that in cutscenes and utterly failed at breaking certain things in cutscenes that your calc would imply should be no impediment to them.
Also, fool, its Amy Hennig, not Herrig. I've known that name since I was 10, reading the official playstation magazine, reading interviews with her. But I can't blame you, you clearly aren't as invested in the LoK verse. 🙂
Amy 'Herrig' said the wraith blade being absorbed heals Kain? Well, who is the Wraith Blade inexorably part of again? 🙂
If the insults bother you so much, just ignore them. They don't invalidate anything, that was me simply having fun at your expense.
Unfortunately for you, everything I stated on my side, has actually happened. You are still clinging to math that was invalidated many times over.
Go argue Kain vs Pre-Recton Beyonder somewhere. I know you've seriously made an attempt at it before. Maybe you'll succeed this time?
nothing worth replying to here apart from maybe the fact you think just because Kratos has broken through a wall, thats the only reason we know he can? physically, both Raziel and Kain could do so based on their canon feats.
The wraith blade being "part" of Raziel in a sense, bonded to his arm has no comparison to the fact Kain just absorbs it to heal, nothing to do with Raziel being absorbed into the reaver.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Huh.What?
That doesn't make sense.
Weren't the calculations for that obelisk like 300 friggin' tons?
What was blocking his way?
It was either a tall door or some thick gate. My memory escapes me at the moment.
The point is, you would think these wouldn't be an impediment if you looked at the implications of that one feat itself, but its implications do not carry the same weight as explicit feats and statements--hence the point of addressing what the math means, that's an implication of it as well and it clearly does not stand.
It was a couple of metal gates/barred walls.
And no, you wouldnt think that because its a game with puzzles, the same reason I dont think Kratos must be weak because hes not just punching through every surface he comes across and instead, on several occasions goes through even longer stretches of what boils down to puzzle solving to pass an area he could physically pass with ease.
Gameplay mechanics are a no go.
Well ive yet to see a video of Kratos just busting through a wall but are you saying you would never claim he could possibly bust a wall of any kind unless hes done it? throw his feats against the Gods out of the window because hes not forced down a wall and has to open levers in gameplay? thats what your doing for this argument here. The obelisk is heavier than any wall or door they typically come across and Raziel deals with it with ease.
Also you dont have any videos or statements of them failing to bust anything that they have actually attempted to do so.
Seems logic has gone walkies here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slZUOMuHqck 3:57. Just one of the examples off the top of my head. Deimos, Kratos' weaker full blooded brother, tackles Kratos through a thick barrier. There was another one in GoW2 somewhere.
And negatory. They tried. And then there were self-statements and exterior character statements that established their limits, afterall, they would know their own limits better than you do yes? It's simply the fact that these limits establish them as billions of times less than what you are wanting their limits to be.
And indeed, I'm glad you acknowledge that you are letting logic take a walk here. That's the first step.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Your doing it now, your claiming things and pretty much using "no u" reasoning to say I was wrong.
I don't think he needs to post evidence when your post is on the same page and indeed is the post directly proceeding his. He doesn't really need to post specific examples of your argument sidestepping issues and being generally shit since we can see that just by scrolling up.
The **** is the topic now?
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Kratos: Physically strongest in the room, high reactions, some resistance to mind/soul ****ery, can manipulate fire.
Dante: Fastest in the room, second strongest, some hax abilities/weapons, some resistance to mind/soul ****ery, can manipulate hell fire.
Mercer: Third strongest, second fastest [movement speed], regen, no soul to ****, too many minds to rape.
War: Weakest [in base form]/tied third strongest [Chaos form], fourth fastest, some mind resistance, can manipulate fire.
Kain/Raziel: Tied fourth strongest, slowest, most abilities countered by above.
The pair are the slowest, weakest (If War is in Chaos mode) and weak to the flames 3/4 characters carry. And besides having their soul/mind abilities most likely failing to the opponents that have some kind of resistance, it also takes a second to activate and has a very limited range. So either no one will be in range, anyone can interrupt in that one second activation time given all of their speed to cross its range before it starts or they wont be effected by it.
War is a mild challenge, Mercer could rival them, Kratos/Dante could solo.
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BT's still finds a way to insult my calcs and call bias even in another persons topic >__> Step off bro.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slZUOMuHqck 3:57. Just one of the examples off the top of my head. Deimos, Kratos' weaker full blooded brother, tackles Kratos through a thick barrier. There was another one in GoW2 somewhere.And negatory. They tried. And then there were self-statements and exterior character statements that established their limits, afterall, they would know their own limits better than you do yes? It's simply the fact that these limits establish them as billions of times less than what you are wanting their limits to be.
And indeed, I'm glad you acknowledge that you are letting logic take a walk here. That's the first step.
So Kratos didnt do it then? So you even fell in your own illogical case.
No, theres no exterior or self statements, youve made your own illogical deductions on what was said and you use powerscaling which is illoigcal as well.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't think he needs to post evidence when your post is on the same page and indeed is the post directly proceeding his. He doesn't really need to post specific examples of your argument sidestepping issues and being generally shit since we can see that just by scrolling up.
More trolling, as usual.
Originally posted by NemeBro
He couldn't kick open a locked door.Will answer your post when I am done with dinner.
Where? Show me.
And as for you BR, its a nice little overview but it doesnt hold much content tbh, I could do the same.