Originally posted by Nephthys
To be honest, I am somewhat curious to see what Kain has that can counter a Speed Blitz from Dante.
Tk to stop the blitz. Ive yet ot be convinced Dante has the pressure to do much harm to Dante. Hes not as strong as bowser either, his only advantage is a slightly better surface area but Dantes consistent sword Rebellion is a fatter edge than many.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Tk to stop the blitz. Ive yet ot be convinced Dante has the pressure to do much harm to Dante. Hes not as strong as bowser either, his only advantage is a slightly better surface area but Dantes consistent sword Rebellion is a fatter edge than many.
But Kain simply doesn't have the reaction time to do that. Nor does his TK move fast enough to lift Dante from the ground before he reached Kain. Plus that wouldn't stop Dante from shooting him, so throwing a weapon at him.
And I believe that your argument for Kain's durability was soundly defeated some time ago.
Based on what? show me Dante going from zero to mach 1 or w/e speed you think he can go before someone can make an idle gesture with their hand? Dantes reaction feats are as I said before, mostly aim dodging or not reaction feats, anyone fighting someone with a gun has something to react to beyond the bullet unless you can see the bulelt go slow mo like in bayonetta before she dodges and even then, shes dodging someone she can see aiming at her, thats more than Dante has.
Kain has to idly move his hand, Dante has to build up momentum and travel X amount of distance, which could be meters, miles or w/e, Estacado did not specify before trying to create thousands times the pressure of the core of the planet (hows he going do this when he can barely pull a sword out of his chest suction?) to get to Kains bone. All this before Kain idly moves his hand? not a chance.....or turns to mist assuming Kain favours defence over offence.
What soundly defeated it? it was proven solid by unbias people not even from games vs.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Dante is faster than Kain's thoughts.Prove me wrong bro.
This is just a claim, an unproven one, so i cant prove you wrong unless you prove yourself right.
And have you evne played DMC?
The Saviour feat is also overhyped, it relies on Saviour being solid even though he has many hollow areas insdie him where Nero is not only imprisoned but walks around in, it relies on Saviour not being so flexible, hes not just a block of stone and it relies on Saviour not being able to support himself so easily, his arms despite being so flexible can stand stationary in the Saviour scene.
Dante at best blocks Saviour, and then sort of moves out from under him, counterbalancing it so to speak. The actual push from dante hardlmy moves saviour a few meters off of him.
Hahahahaha what is this lowballing bullshit.
Dante was calced at mach 15.
CC proved definitively that the "unbiased people" made a pretty substantial mistake in their conversions.
http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=32075971&postcount=1750
Here is a mach 6.5 calculation for a feat.
Can't find the mach 15 calc, but you don't need to be mach 15 to be faster than a character who isn't mach 1.
Where? by one person who loves Dante? and calcs him nigh capable to the speed of light, and mach 15 is not something he has ever done, its just assumed from a few movements and rough guestimates on how slowly things seem to be falling thanks to specific powers he does not have access to at present.
Show me, CC didnt prove anything. He compared to calcs and said I had to be wrong because one was 7x more than the other, then unashamably said "I just prefer BLoodrains" in pretty much those words. You didnt even read CC's full posts did you? you just sort of skimmed and pretended it was a perfect counter?
PROVE Dante can go from zero to Mach anything...prove this, he never has simply ran at mach 1 or w/e from a standing position. hes reached the mach numbers if your ignoring some of the canon and just looking at some heat on the sword after being given some momentum by terminal velocity.
Also that calc is laughable, hes using the fact Dante has his guns literally a few inches away from the end of her guns as Dantes speed? thats not him moving at all, thats him pulling the trigger, at best thats a reaction feat but tbh, its not even that considering how close their guns were, its more like amazing aim, which we know Dante has from being able to fire bullets one on top of the other from tens of meters away.
How do you think BR accuratly calculated how far each raindrop was falling to say Dante was moving quick, he guessed. Oh and do you remember when I countered your claims there? proving the retcon and that this did not canonically happen?
Hes pretty much smashing swords agaist vergils in flashy slow motion, and whatsnot even there is again, friction which DMC shows in the same gam later on as he falls down Temi geru, pressure, air related and later on, Dante even gets impaled easily by an attack at peak human....the difference is this attack is canon, the earlier scene was a flashy intro retconned by Dante simply saying he hates his brother.
Also wheres the sonic boombs in any of this and coat movements are all off again, I thnk your using physics, tehn saying some physics dont work but they do for you when its necessery for a feat for a character you like? This could be simply labeled as the same sort of "coolforce" that Dante shows when he rides a rocket around the room, his feet spider man style stuck to the rocket and his bodyweight not being influenced at all.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Where? by one person who loves Dante? and calcs him nigh capable to the speed of light, and mach 15 is not something he has ever done, its just assumed from a few movements and rough guestimates on how slowly things seem to be falling thanks to specific powers he does not have access to at present.Show me, CC didnt prove anything. He compared to calcs and said I had to be wrong because one was 7x more than the other, then unashamably said "I just prefer BLoodrains" in pretty much those words. You didnt even read CC's full posts did you? you just sort of skimmed and pretended it was a perfect counter?
[b]PROVE
Dante can go from zero to Mach anything...prove this, he never has simply ran at mach 1 or w/e from a standing position. hes reached the mach numbers if your ignoring some of the canon and just looking at some heat on the sword after being given some momentum by terminal velocity. [/B]
BloodRain didn't make the calc silly little boy. Ah, the lowballing, it is great.
Harharhar.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
BR/Paste's calc got a tons per square inch reading of almost 10,000 tons (9,554.375 tons). D and M got 21 million tons (21,207,563 tons) P.S.I. Naturally, you chose to immediately adopt the higher figure whole-heartedly over BR's, which seemed to go unacknowledged. Hmmm...let's see how the hell that happened. Well firstly, BR/Paste's newton figure for the whole feat was 272,155.422 N. D and M got a newton figure of 1,871,628.73896 N. That's greater by a multiple of almost 7. I don't know how such a big difference came about, but whatever. It's only single digit multiples for this one so I'll leave it be. HOWEVER. You both used the same area for the tips.
.00000206 meters^2 = .0032 inches^2. So HOW THE HELL, did your guys get to 21 million tons per square inch vs ~9,500 tons per square inch? That's over 2,200 times bigger, and yet your Newtons figure was only 7 times greater while using the same area.Let's turn BR's figure into pascals and bar and compare from there.
272,155 N/.00000206 meters^2 = 132,114,077,669.9 pascals. which is 1,321,140.78 bar. (just dividing by 100,000). Both figures are almost 7 times smaller than your pascal and bar figures respectively, so as of this point we're all still on the same page. However...upon reaching the tons per square inch figure, we reach the huge divide already laid out before. 21 million tons per square inch vs 9,500 tons per square inch. Over 2000 times difference. Someone here ****ed up on the conversion. And which side ****ed up? Your side did.
http://www.asknumbers.com/PressureConversion.aspx
^Check and make sure with this pressure conversion site if you don't believe me.
Plug the numbers into the converter boyo. You are obviously the one who didn't read the entire post, that was plainly obvious from the beginning.
Yeah no. If you haven't noticed, I have stopped giving all ****s, I have lost all interest with actually debating you. You show nothing resembling wit, logic, or debating decorum, and frankly? I really, really couldn't give a shit how an insect like you thinks of me. By anyone else's standards on this site, I dominated your argument, took it into my bedroom, and showed it what a real man was.
Also, lol@ the last part, the irony is delicious.
Also, Raziel's claw tips are dull.
Crai moar.
He convereted one to the other and found one has higher/lower tons per square inch than the other, this does not disprove anything though, the pressure Raziel excerted in his hands or his palms is irrelevent to the fact he still required the force he provided to move the thing. The final presure on his palms was a nice bit of side info, the pressure at his claw tips is however the relevent info used on kain. The only thing Cosmic brought up even relevent is that we have not calculated out the one arm Raz did not use on Kain but this levels out when he did not calculate the difference between Raziel trying his best, and Raziel idly moving a pillar the same way he does the 50 ton blocks in the rest of the game.
Another funny note is that CC is comparing the calculation BR did on the pillar vs the calculation done on the fight against Kain in the chronoplast chamber where M and D and I added speed and the surface areas respectfully which is probably why hes mentioning the SA of Raziels palms as if its relevent.
Also, this is another rant, not much better than Cosmics, also "anyone elses standards", who has standards exactly? Most people on this site dont even know al the characters.
Yes, dull claws slice easily into solid concrete and soldiers with ease...they have the same point/edge as any claw and what touched Kain is arguably less than what we use. We dont actually use a lot of Kains feats in that scene, we just use surface area to surface area, the fact Kains skin does not distort at all also makes it an impressive elasticity strength feat for his skin.
Also, crai moar? Its "cry more" dear, I am not that great at touch typing without errors myself but thats two mistaken words.
Originally posted by Burning thought
How do you think BR accuratly calculated how far each raindrop was falling to say Dante was moving quick, he guessed. Oh and do you remember when I countered your claims there? proving the retcon and that this did not canonically happen?Hes pretty much smashing swords agaist vergils in flashy slow motion, and whatsnot even there is again, friction which DMC shows in the same gam later on as he falls down Temi geru, pressure, air related and later on, Dante even gets impaled easily by an attack at peak human....the difference is this attack is canon, the earlier scene was a flashy intro retconned by Dante simply saying he hates his brother.
Actually I'm going off of Dantes Character Profile at the moment. But lol, even if Bloodrain was slightly off in his calculations its still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than anything Kain can possibly hope to deal with. And no, I remember you running you mouth, but I can't recall you countering anything. The feat where they are fighting and teh rain is hanging suspended in midair could easily have happened during the gameplay part of the fight, which wouldn't be a contradiction at all.
Also theres a very noticable cut where the scene could easily be inserted.
Edit: And I totally agree with Neme. He kicked your ass bro.
Originally posted by Burning thought
[He convereted one to the other and found one has higher/lower tons per square inch than the other, this does not disprove anything though, the pressure Raziel excerted in his hands or his palms is irrelevent to the fact he still required the force he provided to move the thing.
Hahahahahaha.
It makes the feat less impressive for one.
Also, this is another rant, not much better than Cosmics, also "anyone elses standards", who has standards exactly? Most people on this site dont even know al the characters.
Don't have to. 🙂
Yes, dull claws slice easily into solid concrete and soldiers with ease...they have the same point/edge as any claw and what touched Kain is arguably less than what we use. We dont actually use a lot of Kains feats in that scene, we just use surface area to surface area, the fact Kains skin does not distort at all also makes it an impressive elasticity strength feat for his skin.
You are aware that there are graphical limitations in these games, right?
Also, lol at the first part. Superman cut a moon in half with his elbow, you don't see me claiming that his elbow is sharp. Raziel's claws are noticeably dull, duller than my fingernail. Maybe he's just... Strong? Also, for a real-world example, the teeth of an alligator are completely blunt, yet due to the tremendous strength of their bite, they can impale a human easily.
Also, crai moar? Its "cry more" dear, I am not that great at touch typing without errors myself but thats two mistaken words.
Baw.
Dante and Kratos can kill Raziel and Kain at the beginning easily enough.
BR may not be just slightly off, the guy who calcs Dante capable of lightspeed or 5x lightspeed could for all you know be vastly off, and still not have the feats to suggest Dante can do this on a dime before Kain can flex his fingers. No, it couldnt have easily happened, because the fightin the rain happens before the scene where their blades are together, causing frictional heat, this happens immediatly after Dante tells his brother he doesnt like him, theres a lot of conversation here. You cant just add piecies of previous info thats been changed and removed by the devs....
Originally posted by NemeBro
Why are you continuing to attack someone who didn't even do the calc, and beyond that has a grasp of physics and math demonstratably superior to your's?Show some class.
One, I did not attack, simply point out theres no way he could see and calculate how far each raindrop fell and second, this statement is proven where? where I proved the whole forum wrong when a couple of unbias posters in another section of said forum found higher figuires than even my own?
Originally posted by NemeBro
Hahahahahaha.It makes the feat less impressive for one.
Don't have to. 🙂
You are aware that there are graphical limitations in these games, right?
Also, lol at the first part. Superman cut a moon in half with his elbow, you don't see me claiming that his elbow is sharp. Raziel's claws are noticeably dull, duller than my fingernail. Maybe he's just... Strong? Also, for a real-world example, the teeth of an alligator are completely blunt, yet due to the tremendous strength of their bite, they can impale a human easily.
Baw.
Dante and Kratos can kill Raziel and Kain at the beginning easily enough.
Well no, it doesnt. It just means Raziel had less pressure on his hands, not less force to move the block.
The tip of the tooth is still a small surface area, a square millimeter which is what most of Raziels feats are calculated on is actually quite big, when most human made knives are not even close to that...thats more like the tip of a humans blunt finger tbh. So everything we do calculating Raziel is a lowball, from assuming him doing something easy is his max, to his claw tip sizes. Same with Kain, ignoring half of the crazy physical properties his skin has shown, a kitten scratch can claw a human but all the pressure of the earths core x 3 processed in a claw point cant even dent it or cause a bruise.
Wow, thats convincing. Ill just counter with "Kain can tool Kratos and defeat dante with one hand wave" in the beginning. Then speed blitz anyone left after drinking Dantes blood.
Also, why would anyone use the character profile, made by posters from another forum who may be just as poorly thought out as this ones? A character profile is not a feat, they even said Dante can bust a skyscraper, when? or telekinesis? They also had his Stamina at extremely high when as jester points out, a few minuts of fighting with his brother makes him slow....
Originally posted by Burning thought
BR may not be just slightly off, the guy who calcs Dante capable of lightspeed or 5x lightspeed could for all you know be vastly off, and still not have the feats to suggest Dante can do this on a dime before Kain can flex his fingers.
Ad hominem. Stop attacking Bloodrains math skills, or at least have the courtesy to disprove them instead of making snide comments. You keep saying that you'll argue the feat in a Dante thread, and yet you've done bupkis so far. Bloodrains calcs stand.
And given that his calculations are backed up by the profile (assuming the info on there didn't come from him?) I'm very comfortable with accepting the calculation of Mach 15.
And again, no matter how far off the calculation, any idiot can see that the speed displayed in that scene is such that Dante could easily blitz Kain without really trying.
Edit: And BR apparantly didn't even do the calc. Nice. What were you saying?
Originally posted by Burning thought
No, it couldnt have easily happened, because the fightin the rain happens before the scene where their blades are together, causing frictional heat, this happens immediatly after Dante tells his brother he doesnt like him, theres a lot of conversation here. You cant just add piecies of previous info thats been changed and removed by the devs....
As I said, there are noticable cuts into which we can insert the correct scenes. They are not mutually exclusive to one another. Nice try though. 😉
Ad hominem is against the poster of the argument, your the poster of the argument and I am pointing out your ignorance of BR's methods. Also, how do they stand? Because you just shrug and agree?
Backed up by what profile? lol....its not a backing for anything, its made by anyone who wants to change it, it says a lot of funny things in there.
Blitz Kain? he moves his arms around a bit to block sowrd strikes, how is this a blitzing manouver? he didnt blitz vergil, he didnt blitz lady, he didnt blitz anyone and has been tagged just many times as hes tagged others, he got shot in the head by lady in one scene, and in the chest.
"insert the correct scenes", nice try on making your own "DMC" game.....maybe ill just "add in" bits cut from the LoK games, I recall bullet time powers in BO 2 were cut as well....
Also the people on there say things even I am not so sure about kain, like him regenerating after having his heart removed, I still doubt he did this without Raziels efforts. Also Kains reaction on the site is hypersonic+, which is funny because Dantes speed is hypersonic+ lol....He also beats Alucard and Kratos on their site....
Originally posted by Burning thought
One, I did not attack, simply point out theres no way he could see and calculate how far each raindrop fell and second, this statement is proven where? where I proved the whole forum wrong when a couple of unbias posters in another section of said forum found higher figuires than even my own?
Nope, CC disproved your "feat".
Also, fyi, the notion that Kain is billions of times more durable than Raziel was funny.
Blunt ass claws.
Well no, it doesnt. It just means Raziel had less pressure on his hands, not less force to move the block.
Um, are you under the impression that I am disputing him tipping the obelisk?
Because I'm not. What was proven that the pressure you got for the feat was two thousand times more impressive than it should have been.
The tip of the tooth is still a small surface area, a square millimeter which is what most of Raziels feats are calculated on is actually quite big, when most human made knives are not even close to that...thats more like the tip of a humans blunt finger tbh. So everything we do calculating Raziel is a lowball, from assuming him doing something easy is his max, to his claw tip sizes. Same with Kain, ignoring half of the crazy physical properties his skin has shown, a kitten scratch can claw a human but all the pressure of the earths core x 3 processed in a claw point cant even dent it or cause a bruise.
You think a human's fingertip is a square millimeter?
Also, nup, sorry, your little earth's core feat has been disproved. According to the correct conversions, and with a little look on wiki, Raziel can exert "merely" a little over twice the tons PSI of the ballistic pressure exerted as high-power bullet strikes solid (bulletproof) object.
Noticeably less impressive.
Wow, thats convincing. Ill just counter with "Kain can tool Kratos and defeat dante with one hand wave" in the beginning. Then speed blitz anyone left after drinking Dantes blood.
Once more, Kratos and Dante can kill Kain and Raziel before Kain can think to do anything.
Damn, I sure am WINNING this thread.
Edit: Technically Neph, BT is making an Appeal to Motive fallacy. Attempting to disprove the validity of BR's calcs (The ones he did not make) by insinuating that they can't be accepted due to bias.
It's BT's favorite fallacy at the moment, apparently.