Originally posted by BloodRain
Only if Dante gets into the same condition Verg was. Does fiction-strong will power count for anything?Riight. Hard to remember much of his feats that dont involve smashing and breaking things..
Well, there are a couple of will-power based characters that could give someone like Superman a run for his money. vin
Eh, I suppose. Much like Dante's calling card is apparently speed, Kratos' is strength apparently.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I thought you would give up defending the guy.
"Defending" him? You seem to be under the impression that he needs defending from you. What you say or how you feel carries absolutely no weight here, I was merely exposing you for the faux-intellectual coward you are. 🙂
I dont agree with the Atlas thing, nor am I the only one,
Don't care.
atlas never tried to kill Kratos
Speculation.
and as iu said, the leviathan hardly used any power due to its damage ot the area by comparison.
Speculation.
Theres plenty of damage to the environments on Olympus,
Not really.
you cant claim every piece of stone on the mountain is some sort of special stone,
It obviously is.
Poseidon was just tossed, its not like Kratos pushed him into the rock and failed to do any damage.
Normal stone would have been shattered by Poseidon's body thrown by Kratos. Like how normal stone was pulverised when a normal human was thrown by that chick whose name I forget in Ghost of Sparta (Which is another feat for Kratos' reactions that CC posted).
The Leviathan was not using the same force, and Poeisdon was not using the same effort against Kratos as he did against Gaia,
That's retarded, prove it.
thats common sense for one because only one leviathan is present you also dont know how fast the leviathan was moving, as you said it was just a sneak attack, it didnt move as far in distance, speed etc as the one that attacked Gaia, at least not that we know.
Most of this is irrelevant. Prove that Poseidon for some retarded reason was going easy on Kratos.
No because thats in a small area, the leviathan is huge as are its claws...
Pretty much irrelevant really, if you honestly want to argue real physics in a game setting, Kain and Raziel should send eachother flying at least a dozen meters or so with each attack, based on strength feats. I guess they don't count. Or maybe every time they hit eachother they are going easy on one another! Yes, that is definitely it.
also skin is ellastic and absorbs energy like that from small hits and Raziel was not pushing into Kain like the Leviathan was to Kratos, nor did Kain try and push back.
So what you are saying is that Raziel's blows can not signifigantly push back a Kain that is not trying to push back? Good to know.
Agility? thats not reactions tbh,
Yes, it is. He was moving at speeds faster than Kain has been shown managing (Seriously, provide a feat that shows him being faster than a peak human) and performing complex maneuvers with little warning and with little time to do so, reaction-time.
thats him grabbing onto one, then the other, what agility is that? ill give you, he has good aim and precision to do so quickly but hes essentially launching his large ass chains out to loop in a hole and pull himself...how is that helping him here?
He can launch his large ass chains quickly to cut Kain's head off?
Also, glad to hear you agree with me, that to have such good aim and precision to do such maneuvers so quickly makes him fast.
He was speeding towards a cliffside, he didnt react to it, he didnt move in mid flight and dodge the cliffside....all he did was roll.
Jump off of a highway and onto a moving truck, tell me if you are able to roll when you land.
No, that requires him to react, reaction-time is used to make movements before something can affect you, which he did, he rolled and threw Poseidon when he hit the cliff-side. A much better feat than Kain's.
Lets see, a long list of magic powers from freezing completly in time
Won't hit.
to draining him dry of blood
Can't get past Kratos' durability.
to taking his soul,
Hades tried and failed.
Kratos has no resistance to any of these things,
He does.
TK woudl work as well, just hold him in the air, then he has no anchor to run.
TK didn't help Ares or Zeus that much, did it?
Also dont make me laugh, leg speed, youve proven one scene that if given rings he can be quicker than Kain but run quicker than Kain? whens he done this?
Show me Kain running quick at all.
3:00 in on the first video I posted, a much better feat of leg quickness than Kain has ever shown.
Show me Kain running very fast. Seriously, do it, you demand for proof all the time, for once shut up and provide the evidence yourself.
Edit: Really, I'm not sure why I bother responding at all to you.
"I'VE ONLY SEEN DANTE AIMDODGE," lol, what? I hate Dante with a passion, but that is one of the biggest cases of lowballing I've ever friggin' seen.
Hell, I've only provided the most basic speed/agility/reflex feats of Kratos, because that's all I need to prove he is faster than a character without an impressive speed feat to his name.
Originally posted by NemeBro
"Defending" him? You seem to be under the impression that he needs defending from you. What you say or how you feel carries absolutely no weight here, I was merely exposing you for the faux-intellectual coward you are. 🙂Don't care.
Speculation.
Speculation.
Not really.
It obviously is.
Normal stone would have been shattered by Poseidon's body thrown by Kratos. Like how normal stone was pulverised when a normal human was thrown by that chick whose name I forget in Ghost of Sparta (Which is another feat for Kratos' reactions that CC posted).
That's retarded, prove it.
Most of this is irrelevant. Prove that Poseidon for some retarded reason was going easy on Kratos.
Pretty much irrelevant really, if you honestly want to argue real physics in a game setting, Kain and Raziel should send eachother flying at least a dozen meters or so with each attack, based on strength feats. I guess they don't count. Or maybe every time they hit eachother they are going easy on one another! Yes, that is definitely it.
So what you are saying is that Raziel's blows can not signifigantly push back a Kain that is not trying to push back? Good to know.
Yes, it is. He was moving at speeds faster than Kain has been shown managing (Seriously, provide a feat that shows him being faster than a peak human) and performing complex maneuvers with little warning and with little time to do so, reaction-time.
He can launch his large ass chains quickly to cut Kain's head off?
Also, glad to hear you agree with me, that to have such good aim and precision to do such maneuvers so quickly makes him fast.
Jump off of a highway and onto a moving truck, tell me if you are able to roll when you land.
No, that requires him to react, reaction-time is used to make movements before something can affect you, which he did, he rolled and threw Poseidon when he hit the cliff-side. A much better feat than Kain's.
Won't hit.
Can't get past Kratos' durability.
Hades tried and failed.
He does.
TK didn't help Ares or Zeus that much, did it?
Show me Kain running quick at all.
3:00 in on the first video I posted, a much better feat of leg quickness than Kain has ever shown.
Show me Kain running very fast. Seriously, do it, you demand for proof all the time, for once shut up and provide the evidence yourself.
Edit: Really, I'm not sure why I bother responding at all to you.
"I'VE ONLY SEEN DANTE AIMDODGE," lol, what? I hate Dante with a passion, but that is one of the biggest cases of lowballing I've ever friggin' seen.
Hell, I've only provided the most basic speed/agility/reflex feats of Kratos, because that's all I need to prove he is faster than a character without an impressive speed feat to his name.
Well he can hardly defend himself after what a show he made, hence why hes not here. Oh and how you feel carries so much weight? and also, it holds enough weight to make people try and create more text/effort into any reply to anyone on this forum, either their trolling or argueing, their still doing it with me in mind and how I react.
I have proven it, if the Leviathan was using the same force to stop a punch that could shatter piecies of Olmypus then clearly when it attacks Kratos and hardly does anything to the area its not going to be doing as much damage. Also I like how you make a claim, but belive my counter explanation is speculation and not your own, yours is more full of speculation as mine, only I have reasons why I belive thus like stone not breaking, what do you have to reason this thing was moving at the same speed or using the same strength?
No why would they? their using small surface areas and when they do hit, they are going quite far, the difference is less obvious here though isnt it because Kain and Raz use forces equel to moving blocks humans can also move using machines but GoW hypes strength up to ridiculous levels, therefore the physical forces are more relevent. If you dont agree with physical forces being used properly then stop hyping strength feats on how impressive they look, its all physics.
But thats impossible if Kains out of range thanks to a teleport or intangible, or has killed him with a gesture as Kratos' blood sprays on the inside of his body, sending him into cardiac. Whether I can roll when I land or not is nothing to do with reaction, more my own impact and strength, and the mountain wasnt moving so its not the same, Kratos was.
What wont hit? Kratos lumbering along slowly will somehow no sell bolts that move at least using BO1 a few meters a second, and Kain could make more than one, and their mostly homing as well..most of them dont even need to cover distance and are not projectiles, oh and again, TK...lets see Kratos dodge it while hovering helplessly in the air! especially without any rings to launch his chainblades at so he can do his only decent speed feats...oh and hows he going to pull his soul back when he can neither see nor grasp it? as i said, Kains method is unique to hades and purely magical, and whats Kratos' durability going to do against TK inside his body? nothing, the best bet is as I said, it may not reach Kain if Kain cant bust Kratos' chest, this will simply mean worse for Kratos as his organs fail.
And Ares and Zeus did not use Tk on Kratos in their fights, I like how you fall back on trying to claim just because a character Kratos fought has a power Kain has, and just didnt use it, this just means it wont help Kain? what? Neme logic?
Cosmic has done it for me, its not technically running since Kains legs dont move but about 10 meters a second is quicker than "slow lumbering". Also whats your fascination with Kain running at all? why is Kain running when he, unlike Kratos has a choice to cut out having to physically travel distance at all? your not making any sense again, hence why you come to these poor conclusions.
Having played teh games I have pretty much only seen dante aimdodge bullets, apart from when lady shoots at him from behind and he dodges which is not reaction.
But youve not posted speed feats, youve posted strength feats that make him move fast per virtue of using items in the environment that are not here, or momentum from the environment/other characters that are not here. Kratos when he runs around is not much faster than a human and all your doing is trying to lowball Kain and assume hes going to use his legs when he can do far more than that....
Why cant they? Why cant an attack helicopter go full speed in an assault? Not to mention there are many places in NY that are very open to allow it. This is Blackwatch, they not really about safety. And... what? Just because Mercer can outrun a speeding car doesn't mean he can outrun a speeding car, if this is a way of saying 'you dont know how fast they were' well theres a simply counter question; You see zombies, monsters, tanks and one guy they're all attacking running at you. Do you leisurely drive away or do you floor it? Lets assume for a second that in the end Alex cant beat Kain. At the very least he's going to wear Kain down to nothing. Think about it, with or without the Wraith Blade, Raziel was able to wear him down and even inflict some kind of pain on him. Mercer is, depending on which speed you want to use, 5-10x faster and stronger than Raziel. With Kain worn down to that extent he'd be highly vulnerable to the teams two powerhouses.
Their whole mind is inside him, couldnt pull off those perfect mimics without doing that. Soul is arguable, but again he has everything of every person. So if a virus can have a soul then he has theirs too.
Verg was a total mind/body/soul slave and has been so for 10 years. That level of control is vastly above Charm.
Others seem to disagree, so meh. And iirc it was only about they issue of slaughtering his wife and daughter that he becomes easier to sway, but thats a pretty big thing. Soul rep is still a soul rip right? That I remember he didnt even touch anything with his hands.
Why is Kain reacting first? He has human reaction time compared to the others superhuman+ reactions. Yeah a normal person with normal 0.2 reactions. Nothing to bullet timers. He still has to act on appearance, and his human speed is far too slow to beat the others physically.
For the confusion, Lucifer was the one in DMC4 that broke the stone. Ifrit is the gauntlets in DMC1 that greatly amp Dante's strength with hellfire far hotter than magma. While I dont agree that Kratos is as blade resistant as people say, but given the blows he takes Kain will have trouble getting good damage on him, but H2H is not something he wants to do against Kratos. If you want to go by gameplay then QS can last for as long as his DT lasts where DMC4 shows it can go for 1m30s, longer when he goes all out. But how fast can Kain even do that before getting caught in QS? With it activated his 0.1 peak movements/reactions will take 100 seconds in the eyes of Dante.
Could just teleport. And his arms aren't frozen so he can still attack anyway.. and thats if Kain can even tag him. Even though youre against hypersonic speeds youve admitted that Dante moves at Mach 1. Supersonic is still way above anything Kain's dealt with. Can he use TK on 4 people at the same time?
Technically still mind rape but of a different branch. As long as Kratos over came someone mentally itd count... not that I know if he did or of that scene at all <__<
@That post to Neme^: Raz /did/ kick Kain. And if Raz is meant to be doing 200 times the strength of this kick then Kain would have been knocked back.. about 100 times faster than he did. Theres a limit to how real VG physics can get.
Forgetting about their other speed feats, Vergil did a clear bullet time in their tower-top fight, as did Dante four times against Nero. They react /after/ these Ma2 shots is fired.
Yeah, I'm not seeing any evidence from your side BT. You have yet to post a single speed feat to prove Kain is faster in reaction-time or movement, when others have posted several showing Kain to be slower than his opposition.
I'm going to go ahead and take my win now.
Although I will point out that Hades passively entraps and imprisons all the dead souls in existence within his realm, and even in his body. Hades actively tried to rip out Kratos' soul and failed. Oh, and Alex Mercer's running speed was calced at about 300 miles per hour. Hope this helps you a little BR.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Why cant they? Why cant an attack helicopter go full speed in an assault? Not to mention there are many places in NY that are very open to allow it. This is Blackwatch, they not really about safety. And... what? Just because Mercer can outrun a speeding car doesn't mean he can outrun a speeding car, if this is a way of saying 'you dont know how fast they were' well theres a simply counter question; You see zombies, monsters, tanks and one guy they're all attacking running at you. Do you leisurely drive away or do you floor it? Lets assume for a second that in the end Alex cant beat Kain. At the very least he's going to wear Kain down to nothing. Think about it, with or without the Wraith Blade, Raziel was able to wear him down and even inflict some kind of pain on him. Mercer is, depending on which speed you want to use, 5-10x faster and stronger than Raziel. With Kain worn down to that extent he'd be highly vulnerable to the teams two powerhouses.Their whole mind is inside him, couldnt pull off those perfect mimics without doing that. Soul is arguable, but again he has everything of every person. So if a virus can have a soul then he has theirs too.
Verg was a total mind/body/soul slave and has been so for 10 years. That level of control is vastly above Charm.
Others seem to disagree, so meh. And iirc it was only about they issue of slaughtering his wife and daughter that he becomes easier to sway, but thats a pretty big thing. Soul rep is still a soul rip right? That I remember he didnt even touch anything with his hands.
Why is Kain reacting first? He has human reaction time compared to the others superhuman+ reactions. Yeah a normal person with normal 0.2 reactions. Nothing to bullet timers. He still has to act on appearance, and his human speed is far too slow to beat the others physically.
For the confusion, Lucifer was the one in DMC4 that broke the stone. Ifrit is the gauntlets in DMC1 that greatly amp Dante's strength with hellfire far hotter than magma. While I dont agree that Kratos is as blade resistant as people say, but given the blows he takes Kain will have trouble getting good damage on him, but H2H is not something he wants to do against Kratos. If you want to go by gameplay then QS can last for as long as his DT lasts where DMC4 shows it can go for 1m30s, longer when he goes all out. But how fast can Kain even do that before getting caught in QS? With it activated his 0.1 peak movements/reactions will take 100 seconds in the eyes of Dante.
Could just teleport. And his arms aren't frozen so he can still attack anyway.. and thats if Kain can even tag him. Even though youre against hypersonic speeds youve admitted that Dante moves at Mach 1. Supersonic is still way above anything Kain's dealt with. Can he use TK on 4 people at the same time?
Technically still mind rape but of a different branch. As long as Kratos over came someone mentally itd count... not that I know if he did or of that scene at all <__<
@That post to Neme^: Raz /did/ kick Kain. And if Raz is meant to be doing 200 times the strength of this kick then Kain would have been knocked back.. about 100 times faster than he did. Theres a limit to how real VG physics can get.
Forgetting about their other speed feats, Vergil did a clear bullet time in their tower-top fight, as did Dante four times against Nero. They react /after/ these Ma2 shots is fired.
Because they would crash? theres like a few meters, tens at best between some skyscrapers, and further you cant prove they did, you cant just claim max speed for every machine/vehicle in the game, gridlocked taxis in traffic dont go at 100 mph, infact i dont see any go at any major speed. mercers not even touching Kain, most of them are not touching Kain but Mercer wear Kain down? if anything everyone other than Kain and possibly mercer thanks to his biology are going to be worn down, Kain and Raz had a fight, Kain by the end being battered by weapons more powerful than Mercer has.
Their minds, their knowledge but mercer himself is one mind, the virus is one mind, it just happens to have all their knowledge. Wheres your evidence to suggest there are hundreds of minds in there at once? Because, there are not hundreds of voices accompanying Mercers in the cutscenes when he is thinking or talking, theres still one person.
Corruption imo, and thats Verg, hes not in this thread.
Well I know more than you on this it seems, and so do "others" so ill let them try and defend Kratos.
Bullet timers, when? who? Dante? Dante who aim dodges most if not all of his enemies, show me Dante bullet timing thats not, without any doubt an aimdodge, because most if not all his enemies with guns aim at him before fireing, including lady. Also, humans cant react, move and stimulate from nothing (humans cant do this, since they cant remove themselves from the world, their constantly under some sitmulai).
Show me their feats/canon behind them please. Kain needs one hit, to take kratos' soul, not a single strike on Kratos was anything more than a punch and as for Chronos, a lot of his energy also goes through his own hangs since they clench together and even that is unkown of how much pressure Kratos would even be under since we dont see him.
QS has a range, you cant claim that no matter where Kain is, hes going to be affected or that would be a no limit fallacy, Kains time powers also have a range of about a room or so we agreed, Kain only has to gesture. Dante has to actually build momentum after activating QS and run up to Kain, also you cant use how long DT takes in gameplay in DMC4 as its limit for QS when QS for all wek now takes more energy than DT.
When has Dante ever teleported, I see trixter as fast speed, a lot of people do so its not just me. Whats speed going to help him, and again, he needs momentum, youve yet to prove Dante goes from zero to mach 1 as soon as he starts moving....Kain gestures if that, Dante is held in the air, he cant run.....then Kain deals with the rest but tbh, Dante is the only real threat.
Show me the video where they react after.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah, I'm not seeing any evidence from your side BT. You have yet to post a single speed feat to prove Kain is faster in reaction-time or movement, when others have posted several showing Kain to be slower than his opposition.I'm going to go ahead and take my win now.
Although I will point out that Hades passively entraps and imprisons all the dead souls in existence within his realm, and even in his body. Hades actively tried to rip out Kratos' soul and failed. Oh, and Alex Mercer's running speed was calced at about 300 miles per hour. Hope this helps you a little BR.
where? youve shown that given some in-game props he can using his strength move fairly quickly, hes not got that here and you ask evidence from me, what do you want exactly? since half the stuff is in the respect thread that ime talking about or is common knowledge.... youve been on this forum for longer than I have, years and yet your claiming youve not seen the dimention reaver before, or the moebius attack dash.
😆 "take your win now", youve won......knowledge, knowledge that Kratos is countered in every way by Kain.
He used hooks that almost physically grasp the soul, requiring him to yank it out, Kratos was stronger than hades, thats all it was. Again, really just a strength feat.
Anyone who isn't you can plainly see that I've smashed your feeble argument from its foundations, sundered your anti-logic from the peaks of reason, and slayed the dragon of intellectual dishonesty that you perpetuate within every thread.
I am aware of Kain's feats of speed cretin, and how they don't match up to anyone here (Save perhaps War).
So yeah, I'll take my win.
Yes, smashed. One post trying to claim Kratos riding Gaias momentum and power, or him using props smashes the argument that his foot speed is slow.....again, youve sunk lower the more annoyed you get....
Anyone who thinks Kratos' lumbering can allow him to catch up with a teleporter/someone who can take to the air/wind as several forms doesnt deserve to win anything more than a spicy curry that will burn their tongues for hours without end.
Riiiiggghhttttt.....
Also assuming Kain kills and drains Kratos' blood first, taking his power for his own, genetically speaking Kain would have Kratos' ridiculous strength and would proceed to use it to just toss pebbles off the ground to kill his other enemies.
Fortunatly for Kratos though, hes not as I said to BR, likely to be his first target, Dante can only hold that honor.