X-23 vs Batman

Originally posted by -Pr-
Batman beat the JLA. shocklaugh

Originally posted by wildernesss
a direct hit from your first two examples wouldn't just slow her down; she would be in scattered pieces all over the place. she isn't logan and doesn't have the structural durability the metal skeleton provides. until someone posts scans I call total bs on that.

Comics don't quite work like real life, so I'm surprised that's being called into question; however, I'll get the scans if you really want to see them.

Originally posted by cdtm
For some reason, Batmans speed is HIGHLY [underrated]by Marvel zombies.

Originally posted by cdtm
Is healing factor on par with Logan? Deadpool?

Originally posted by Existere
I read a comic book.

Originally posted by StyleTime
😂 👆

What part on you calling BS on? The fact that they happened or that she wasn't blown to pieces?

Comics don't quite work like real life, so I'm surprised that's being called into question; however, I'll get the scans if you really want to see them.

😂

Both. she doesn't have the structural durability that logan's metal skeleton provides. a direct hit from either of those attacks would leave her in scattered pieces; her HF would not be able to diminish the immediate effect of that type of attack due to her average durability.

as for your second part....then batman wins easily. the amount of damage he has absorbed coupled with his feats of strength/speed are beyond the capacity of anyone in real life; therefore, (according to your logic) he isn't beholden or limited to any kind of real world logic & his best feats (like defeating the JLA) settle the matter quite quickly. batman wins with ease.

Correct me if I'm wrong because I mostly read Superman/Batman when it comes to the two of them showing up together, but wasn't there a conversation between Clark and Kara about how Clark let's Bruce sneak up on him?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Laura has fought Wolverine to a stand still, which is more impressive than stalemating a fake Captain America, and she did in a comic that matters. 😎

The Avengers / JLA cross over is canon for DC, but not for Marvel. Essentially Batman stalemated a character who just by sheer happenstance wears the same costume as Captain America and has the same name as Captain America, but isn't 616 Captain America. Batman doesn't stand much of a chance of beating Cap. It would play out like Batman's fight last fight with Azrael... only imagine that on top of all his physical advantages Azrael also happened to be more skilled in h2h combat.

Bruce's standard equipment is barely powerful enough to force Laura to bat an eyelid, and even in conjunction with his martial prowess (which will have less effect on Laura than his gear) the chances of him putting her out for a ten count before he gets eviscerated is very slim. You could start through Robins into this fight and it would take a few before the scale started to look balanced. Sans prep Laura is simply above Batman's ability to content with.

Are you confusing Croc with Lizard, or his incarnation in Arkham Asylum?Because Croc is barely superhuman (and some times he is just a dude with a skin condition with no superhuman abilities at all). Depending on the writer he is, at best,a sometimes bullet proof, some times class 2 strength villain with not enough speed to talk about and a healing factor that isn't fast enough to repair a broken arm quickly enough to be of use in a forum match. Harvey Dent has beaten Croc in a physical h2h battle. Easily. Croc sucks.

When laura fought logan to a standstill it was because logan didn't want to hurt her and held back. period. a non holding back logan would destroy her. period. end of story. and don't say that logan's son has fought laura to a standstill and defeated logan too. the only time logan's son has beaten logan is through a sneak attack. every other time, logan demolished him when it was a fair fight. however..... that, and the jla/avengers crossover are pretty much irrelevant compared to batman defeating the JLA within continuity; so if were going to toss relatively
rare & questionable feats around....

batman beating the jla > laura fighting a holding back wolverine

When laura fought logan to a standstill it was because logan didn't want to hurt her and held back. period. a non holding back logan would destroy her. period. end of story.

Except it wasn't exactly a standstill, she was bleeding him out, and he was getting pretty serious as it became clear she was going for the kill (since he did after all want to stop her). Laura was beating a Wolverine who was holding back at first. There's also no reason why he shouldn't *dodge* even when holding back, so it still speaks well of her offensive skills.

Again, she's fought really dangerous people aside from Wolverine. Daken and Lady Deathstrike too. She inflicted fatal wounds on Lady DS, and Lady Deathstrike is a superhuman in strength and speed cyborg with healing factor who wasn't holding back in the slightest.

batman beating the jla > laura fighting a holding back wolverine

The former was a prep thing, though. That doesn't speak to his non-prep hand to hand combat skills, which is what's required here. He didn't take out Superman with a punch or Martian Manhunter with a Judo flip.

X-23 in a random encounter to much going for her for a normal human to take on in my opinion. Don't see how bats takes her down w/ standard gear. (maybe gas though...)

Batgod w/ prep..he owned a couple of white martians..( still don't know if that is pis or not to this day) loved morrison's jla though. loved his batman too..

Originally posted by Q99
Except it wasn't exactly a standstill, she was bleeding him out, and he was getting pretty serious as it became clear she was going for the kill (since he did after all want to stop her). Laura was beating a Wolverine who was holding back at first. There's also no reason why he shouldn't *dodge* even when holding back, so it still speaks well of her offensive skills.

Again, she's fought really dangerous people aside from Wolverine. Daken and Lady Deathstrike too. She inflicted fatal wounds on Lady DS, and Lady Deathstrike is a superhuman in strength and speed cyborg with healing factor who wasn't holding back in the slightest.

The former was a prep thing, though. That doesn't speak to his non-prep hand to hand combat skills, which is what's required here. He didn't take out Superman with a punch or Martian Manhunter with a Judo flip.

aside from that lady DS feat, nothing there is really that impressive when examined under scrutiny.

as for batman without prep.....how about him knocking hawkman down
to the ground & drawing blood with one punch. hawkman is so much stronger & durable than laura that it isn't even funny.

but what really should be taken into account is the fact that batman has been able to evade defeat at the hands of deathstroke on so many occassions. if batman can evade a sword being swung at him by someone fast enough to catch the flash, with the strength of ten men, decades of feats, equal if not greater MA skills than laura, much more durable than laura, and a healing factor as well....then how would x-23 have any better results? ALL of slade's stats, with the exception of his healing factor, are greater than laura's. if batman can evade the blade of someone with reflexes fast enough to severely injure the flash, how can laura compete with that?

aside from that lady DS feat, nothing there is really that impressive when examined under scrutiny.

If by 'scrutiny' you mean 'lowballing'.

And you do mean 'lowballing'. The Wolverine fight was a pretty impressive one under scrutiny, because Logan was not just letting her hit, nor was he unwilling to hit her (she has a HF after all), and he serious'd up pretty soon into the fight. She gained an advantage because he didn't start serious, but it was still a real battle.

then how would x-23 have any better results?

Because she's fast, very evasive, very skilled, has more weapons than Slade, and likes to keep her foot claws as a nasty surprise?

And she does have the better healing factor bit going for her.

if batman can evade the blade of someone with reflexes fast enough to severely injure the flash, how can laura compete with that?

Because his blade isn't that fast, he just anticipates where Flash is going to be and lets him run into it, and street levels evade attacks from him often, like even pre-Nightwing and early-Nightwing Dick could do some evasion.

Are we actually considering what Slade did in Identity Crisis as anything except PIS? 😕

Originally posted by nwg202
X-23 in a random encounter to much going for her for a normal human to take on in my opinion.

Define "normal human", because comic book humans aren't really normal.

Can she pwn Daredevil in a random encounter? Cassandra Cain? Captain America?

Originally posted by wildernesss
Both. she doesn't have the structural durability that logan's metal skeleton provides. a direct hit from either of those attacks would leave her in scattered pieces; her HF would not be able to diminish the immediate effect of that type of attack due to her average durability.

as for your second part....then batman wins easily. the amount of damage he has absorbed coupled with his feats of strength/speed are beyond the capacity of anyone in real life; therefore, (according to your logic) he isn't beholden or limited to any kind of real world logic & his best feats (like defeating the JLA) settle the matter quite quickly. batman wins with ease.

Originally posted by wildernesss
as for your second part....then batman wins easily. the amount of damage he has absorbed coupled with his feats of strength/speed are beyond the capacity of anyone in real life; therefore, (according to your logic) he isn't beholden or limited to any kind of real world logic & his best feats (like defeating the JLA) settle the matter quite quickly. batman wins with ease.

Honestly I could see batman gassing and restraining with wire in Random encounter and prep for Batman. I don't think he'd be able to get into a match of fisticuffs and win but if he drops a gas bomb that distracts her for a short while and entangles her with mono-filament wire/wire. I could see him winning the majority through that tactic if he can get her good enough that she can't cut her way loose.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Honestly I could see batman gassing and restraining with wire in Random encounter and prep for Batman. I don't think he'd be able to get into a match of fisticuffs and win but if he drops a gas bomb that distracts her for a short while and entangles her with mono-filament wire/wire. I could see him winning the majority through that tactic if he can get her good enough that she can't cut her way loose.

And it's not like Batman doesn't have rogues he can't defeat hth, or rarely faces in h2h combat..

Mr. Freeze could probably beat any of the Wolverine healing factor types, and he could almost definitely beat Batman if he tried a direct confrontation..

Depending on writer or incarnation, he's had all kinds of stuff that could deal with your meta brick healing factor sort, like goo gun that basically "webs someone up" in goo.

Originally posted by cdtm
And it's not like Batman doesn't have rogues he can't defeat hth, or rarely faces in h2h combat..

Mr. Freeze could probably beat any of the Wolverine healing factor types, and he could almost definitely beat Batman if he tried a direct confrontation..

Depending on writer or incarnation, he's had all kinds of stuff that could deal with your meta brick healing factor sort, like goo gun that basically "webs someone up" in goo.

Which is why we differentiate between standard gear and prep time. Batman certainly has the means to beat someone like Laura, he just doesn't have it on his standard gear. Batman's utility belt isn't a bag of holding, he can't just reach in and pull out anything he wants and he doesn't walk around strapped with mother boxes and Green Lantern Rings. His standard gear is composed of some combination of sonics, light munitions, high volt electroshock weaponry, plus a variety of Batarangs and gasses. Random encounter Batman is mostly equipped to deal with primarily human - low level superhuman threats. Default Batman doesn't run around with his Insider Armor or his top end weaponry, he deals with street level problems, so he runs around in Kevlar and kung-fus dudes in their face. In such a scenario he simply lacks the means to take down Laura.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Which is why we differentiate between standard gear and prep time. Batman certainly has the means to beat someone like Laura, he just doesn't have it on his standard gear. Batman's utility belt isn't a bag of holding, he can't just reach in and pull out anything he wants and he doesn't walk around strapped with mother boxes and Green Lantern Rings. His standard gear is composed of some combination of sonics, light munitions, high volt electroshock weaponry, plus a variety of Batarangs and gasses. Random encounter Batman is mostly equipped to deal with primarily human - low level superhuman threats. Default Batman doesn't run around with his Insider Armor or his top end weaponry, he deals with street level problems, so he runs around in Kevlar and kung-fus dudes in their face. In such a scenario he simply lacks the means to take down Laura.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Like I said before I see a gas and wire restraint being a pretty big problem for Laura.

If you thought that... you'd be wrong.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If you thought that... you'd be wrong.

No reason it couldn't work, imo. His lines are pretty strong.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Which is why we differentiate between standard gear and prep time. Batman certainly has the means to beat someone like Laura, he just doesn't have it on his standard gear. Batman's utility belt isn't a bag of holding, he can't just reach in and pull out anything he wants and he doesn't walk around strapped with mother boxes and Green Lantern Rings. His standard gear is composed of some combination of sonics, light munitions, high volt electroshock weaponry, plus a variety of Batarangs and gasses. Random encounter Batman is mostly equipped to deal with primarily human - low level superhuman threats. Default Batman doesn't run around with his Insider Armor or his top end weaponry, he deals with street level problems, so he runs around in Kevlar and kung-fus dudes in their face. In such a scenario he simply lacks the means to take down Laura.

Even with standard stuff, his belts usually brimming with flashbangs, sonics, explosives, razer sharp cutting batarangs.. Think he's even used scarecrow gas once or twice. (Scarecrow fear gas and yellow would be an awesome way for him to pay Hal back for the right cross, btw. 😄 )

If he dumps all that stuff on X 23 at once and tries to snare her in an entrapment device, he could pin her down long enough to qualify as a win, at least.

No one's saying he'd be able to win h2h without abusing the gadgets.