Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Oh right and she drained 3 Jedi Masters. An attack which is useless against the Exile.
She also smacked them around a little before hand. And was able to communicate telepathically across galactic distances, mask her presence from powerful Jedi (And its implied become invisible. The Disciple doesn't even know she's on the ship until you make him a jedi) and wield 3 lightsabers at once telekinetically.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Ah yes, downplaying the Triumvirate now, good attempt. One destroyed an entire planet through the force, another one destroyed 3 members of the councils with a drain, and the 3rd one was immortal on dark side planets. Care to try again?
You conveniently ignore that it was not Meeta Surik's martial prowess that prevailed agains the Triumvirate. Nihilus was brought to his knees shortly before being killed. The Exile didn't defeat him because she was some God in the force, she was there because she was a hole in the force created from Malachor V.
^Kreia is basically a baby Nihilus. If Nihilus failed to drain her, neither could Kriea.
Also since when has being on the Council ~ Being the greatest in martial prowess. If she force drained 3 Coleman Trebors that's hardly a feat.
The third one got killed with Dun Moch, and a good speech. Why? Because Meetra is a natural leader, her willpower is one of her greatest strengths.
Originally posted by Nephthys
She also smacked them around a little before hand. And was able to communicate telepathically across galactic distances, mask her presence from powerful Jedi (And its implied become invisible. The Disciple doesn't even know she's on the ship until you make him a jedi) and wield 3 lightsabers at once telekinetically.
You conveniently ignore that it was not Meeta Surik's martial prowess that prevailed agains the Triumvirate. Nihilus was brought to his knees shortly before being killed. The Exile didn't defeat him because she was some God in the force, she was there because she was a hole in the force created from Malachor V.
^Kreia is basically a baby Nihilus. If Nihilus failed to drain her, neither could Kriea.
Also since when has being on the Council ~ Being the greatest in martial prowess. If she force drained 3 Coleman Trebors that's hardly a feat.
The third one got killed with Dun Moch, and a good speech. Why? Because Meetra is a natural leader, her willpower is one of her greatest strengths.
Good lord, the amount of terrible rationalizing is just....wow
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
She force pushed them away, then slapped Vrook down one more time for good measure. Where did she communicate over galactic distances? And I hardly consider Padawan Mical a powerful Jedi.
She communicates with Atris telepathically. And Atris was also unable to see her or sense her presence when she was at the academy. Also she was able to read Attons mind despite him being trained to stop that kind of shit.
Originally posted by PlagueiSpoilers
Hi, I'm a new member. In the interest of full disclosure, would you mind elaborating a little?
The KotOR (Knights of the Old Republic) game series is one of the most popular Star Wars franchises. Because they exist as games, however, many of their feats are consigned to non-canon. However, things that are established through narration, cutscenes, or other immutable facts about the universe are canon. So there are some parts of these games which we can use in these matches.
One of my favorite characters is Darth Nihilus, whose name is absurdly difficult to spell. I abbreviate him as just 'N.' The game makes clear that he used telekinesis to drag the Ravager out of the gravity well of the Mass Shadow Generator in order to escape that planet. The incredible weight of a starship, combined with the vast shear forces that would apply along an object as large as a space ship would require vast amounts of power (to escape the gravity at all) and control (to prevent the ship from falling apart in the ascent) to lift at all.
If you do any kind of math at all, this feat quickly eclipses just about every other Force showing in terms of power output.
Plus Malachor V has the Mass Shadow Generator adding a ton of gravity to the equation. Kreia describes the effect as:
"There is a world on the Outer Rim surrounded by mass shadows. Past the graveyard of Mandalorian warships, this planet suffers, crushed in gravity's fist. To walk on its surface is to feel it crushing every cell of your being. It is like being buried alive until it seems you will never breathe again."
Originally posted by PlagueiSpoilers
As Malachor V was a world heavily steeped in the dark side of the Force, as Vjun or Korriban or Byss, I'm not certain that we can credit that particular feat to Nihilus alone, as he would have enormous reservoirs of power to draw from outside his own bodily energies.
Luckily, in regards to my defense of Traya's reputation through the substantiation of N.'s TK abilities, this is irrelevant. Both the Fleet feat and the insurrection against Traya occurred at a nexus. So Traya lost to a full powered N., which (as I said) is nothing to be ashamed of. This is all that I said.
Concession accepted. Or would you like to prove Meetra being the martial goddess of the Old Republic like you are inferring.
Originally posted by Zampanó
However, things that are established through narration, cutscenes, or other immutable facts about the universe are canon.
Narration is canon? Are you sure? Doesn't the enthralled Colonel Tobin assure the Exile and her companions that if they confront Darth Nihilus, they'll die? Since the canonical ending results in the death of the Sith Lord instead, would that not indicate that we should take narration with a grain of salt?
Originally posted by Zampanó
One of my favorite characters is Darth Nihilus, whose name is absurdly difficult to spell. I abbreviate him as just 'N.' The game makes clear that he used telekinesis to drag the Ravager out of the gravity well of the Mass Shadow Generator in order to escape that planet. The incredible weight of a starship, combined with the vast shear forces that would apply along an object as large as a space ship would require vast amounts of power (to escape the gravity at all) and control (to prevent the ship from falling apart in the ascent) to lift at all.If you do any kind of math at all, this feat quickly eclipses just about every other Force showing in terms of power output.
My preacher says that math is a tool of Satan and secularists. Setting the Devil's favorite subject aside, ought we not enter into the calculations the fact that Nihilus performed this feat on the dark side world of Malachor V?
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
There's no concession because your argument was defeated the minute you attempted idiotic rationalizations. Your cute strawman about how I claim Meetra is a martial goddess is more evidence of that.
Mizukage, also:
Originally posted by Nephthys
She communicates with Atris telepathically. And Atris was also unable to see her or sense her presence when she was at the academy. Also she was able to read Attons mind despite him being trained to stop that kind of shit.
Atris was a librarian. I hardly consider either her or Jocasta Nu powerful Jedi. Wise? Yes, powerful, hardly.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Mizukage, also:
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The only thing idiotic is your claim that Obi-Wan was average in the force when he was capable of matching TKs with ROTS Anakin.
What's more is that you go on to say that Meetra is in comparison strong in the force with Kenobi? This is simply unfounded and nowhere stated.
Nothing indicates Kenobi was an above average force user. Also, nobody claimed some obscure piece of star wars literature states the exile>obi wan. Continue with your fishing expedition and humorous rationlizations instead of offering any kind of valid argument.
Originally posted by Zampanó
Luckily, in regards to my defense of Traya's reputation through the substantiation of N.'s TK abilities, this is irrelevant. Both the Fleet feat and the insurrection against Traya occurred at a nexus. So Traya lost to a full powered N., which (as I said) is nothing to be ashamed of. This is [b]all that I said. [/B]
You seem like a very logical, sensible, and sexually-appealing individual, so please correct me if I'm wrong: but in debates, are we to solely confine ourselves to overall ideas or positions (i.e. Kreia losing to Nihilus isn't something to be ashamed of) or are we allowed to revisit claims within those arguments that may not be completely accurate (that Nihilus has one of the greatest feats of telekinesis in the mythos)? It seems to me, stranger, that a responsible logician is supposed to make all of the claims within his argument as accurate as possible. Thus the importance of locating and properly citing sources as well as accurate phrasing.
Tl;dr version: I don't object to your overall position, but merely question one of the claims, which is fair game for scrutiny.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Atris was a librarian. I hardly consider either her or Jocasta Nu powerful Jedi. Wise? Yes, powerful, hardly.
She was on the Jedi Council, she had access to and studied an absurd amount of Sith Holocrons and she trained the Handmaidens in Echani combat. She was also able to rather easily defeat Brianna the Handmaiden despite the fact that Brianna had previously curbstomped all of her siblings at the same time.
Atris was hardly fodder.