The Dark Knight Rises

That's because people were disappointed by them. If you enjoy a film it's easy to look past all these "plot holes". Take The Avengers, how many people complain about the overly convenient ending (all the Aliens shutting down once the mother ship is destroyed)? Despite being incredibly ham-fisted the majority of people overlooked it. Why? Because they enjoyed the movie.

And yes, the other films had plenty of plot holes. Like how the other buses drivers are don't do anything when a Bus drives out of a bank, or Joker just leaving the fundraiser when Batman saves Rachel, or how about how absolutely contrived the Joker's plan is.

Originally posted by ares834
That's because people were disappointed by them. If you enjoy a film it's easy to look past all these "plot holes". Take The Avengers, how many people complain about the overly convenient ending (all the Aliens shutting down once the mother ship is destroyed)? Despite being incredibly ham-fisted the majority of people overlooked it. Why? Because they enjoyed the movie.

Overly convenient yes for the aliens to shut down however I took the bigger & moral threat to be the nuking of civilians. The fact the SHIELD prevented this from happening & the fact that that shadow council existed without government or public knowledge out weighed the alien invasion.

Originally posted by ares834
That's because people were disappointed by them. If you enjoy a film it's easy to look past all these "plot holes". Take The Avengers, how many people complain about the overly convenient ending (all the Aliens shutting down once the mother ship is destroyed)? Despite being incredibly ham-fisted the majority of people overlooked it. Why? Because they enjoyed the movie.

I'm okay with some futuristic-like alien machines from a different dimension or different part of the universe having a centrally controlled operator. It doesn't bother me that the "link" to the central Ops was broken causing them to shutdown. That's how it worked in Episode 1 of Star Wars. 😄

And I gave Avengers a similar score to TDKR.

Originally posted by ares834
And yes, the other films had plenty of plot holes. Like how the other buses drivers are don't do anything when a Bus drives out of a bank, or Joker just leaving the fundraiser when Batman saves Rachel, or how about how absolutely contrived the Joker's plan is.

There's a nice long list for that film, as well. However, most of those complaints are small peanuts compared to the ones for TDKR.

Originally posted by ares834

And yes, the other films had plenty of plot holes. Like how the other buses drivers are don't do anything when a Bus drives out of a bank, or Joker just leaving the fundraiser when Batman saves Rachel, or how about how absolutely contrived the Joker's plan is. [/B]

So you expect an underpaid public bus driver to intervene in a bank robbery?

Compare that scenario to Bane & henchmen escaping on trail bikes from the Stock Exchange...how the hell did they sneak & HIDE bikes in the first place?
I mean why go to all the trouble of a) hiding bikes & b) coming back a 2nd time to crash Bruce's accounts?

Joker leaving the fundraiser? Prob the same way he got in...that's no big deal IMO.

Joker's plan...yeah it was a bit contrived to follow BUT not as confusing as Bane/Talia's plan to destroy Gotham because Talia wanted to follow in her daddy's footsteps. The same daddy that abandoned both her & her mother in a prison...talk about serious daddy issues there!

o_O

Ras didn't know where Thalia was. Unless I missed something.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm okay with some futuristic-like alien machines from a different dimension or different part of the universe having a centrally controlled operator. It doesn't bother me that the "link" to the central Ops was broken causing them to shutdown. That's how it worked in Episode 1 of Star Wars. 😄

True, however, TPM told (and showed!) us that the droids were commanded by the Droid Control Ship and that destroying it would put the droids out of commission. By comparison, this was never even suggested in the Avengers until the very end and the Chitauri appear to be organic aliens rather than machines making it harder to swallow.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
So you expect an underpaid public bus driver to intervene in a bank robbery?

No, but I sure as hell expect them to at least stop driving!

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Joker leaving the fundraiser? Prob the same way he got in...that's no big deal IMO.

The reason he went there was to kill Harvey, but once Batman gets out of the picture he just decided to leave? It's a gap, just like how the hell Batman got back into Gotham is a gap.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Joker's plan...yeah it was a bit contrived to follow BUT not as confusing as Bane/Talia's plan to destroy Gotham because Talia wanted to follow in her daddy's footsteps. The same daddy that abandoned both her & her mother in a prison...talk about serious daddy issues there!

Please. Talia's motivations are easy to follow. The Joker's is as well. No, the problem comes from how Joker's plan unfolds and how it requires him to be nearly omniscient . And there are other problems as well, I mean hell, if we are going to complain about how Bane and his crew got bikes into the Stock Exchange then we should ask how the hell did Joker and his goons get a shit ton of explosives into a hospital or, even more so, the ferries?

Originally posted by ares834
True, however, TPM told (and showed!) us that the droids were commanded by the Droid Control Ship and that destroying it would put the droids out of commission. By comparison, this was never even suggested in the Avengers until the very end and the Chitauri appear to be organic aliens rather than machines making it harder to swallow.

But showing us that was not necessary because...we saw it once it was closed. And we knew that some "bossman" people were in charge in that other "relm" so there is very little in the form of suspension of disbelief on the viewers part. We do not have to be shown the central ops to understand that closing that rift shut off communication to their ships or robots: that's very obvious. Why would communication continue across the universe or across dimensions after the rift is closed?

HOWEVER! In TDKR, we have no idea how Bruce Wayne made it back to Gotham City in less than a day. We have no idea how he maintained that buff figure on a starvation diet. We have no idea how he had time to paint the bat symbol on the bridge. Etc. etc. etc.

I don't need to be shown a central computer or processing command ops to know that the robots were being controlled by something like that. But I do need to see how Bruce Wayne did lots of the stuff he supposedly did....

Originally posted by ares834

The reason he went there was to kill Harvey, but once Batman gets out of the picture he just decided to leave? It's a gap, just like how the hell Batman got back into Gotham is a gap.

[/B]

Comparing the two plot holes as gaps is like comparing a crack to a crevice.

I honestly can't remember what Joker's motives were for crashing the fundraiser but once Bats saves Rachel from falling....where did Harvey himself go? I remember Harvey at the start but he was nowhere to be seen to defend Rachel when Joker held a blade to her throat...?

Originally posted by ares834

Please. Talia's motivations are easy to follow. The Joker's is as well. No, the problem comes from how Joker's plan unfolds and how it requires him to be nearly omniscient . And there are other problems as well, I mean hell, if we are going to complain about how Bane and his crew got bikes into the Stock Exchange then we should ask how the hell did Joker and his goons get a shit ton of explosives into a hospital or, even more so, the ferries? [/B]

Yeah Talia's motivation were easy to follow. They just didn't make sense that she wanted to emulate a father who abandoned her & her mother...to a horrible life in prison.Talia had no reason whatsoever to grow up adoring her father...she should've hated him for giving her a childhood of pain & suffering.
Please explain where I'm missing the point?

I can easily speculate that The Joker & his goons "pretended" to deliver supplies (explosives) to both the hospital & ferry & hide them in storage rooms...but seriously how & where do you hide 3 or 4 trail bikes inside the Stock Exchange? Clearly NOT in the car-park as they rode them out of the entrance doors.

Adding to Talia's terribly written motivations, in addition to having basically zero reason to want to emulate her father, how in the hell is nuking Gotham fulfilling his dying dream? Ras' "dream" was never to destroy Gotham. It was his job, as a member of the League of Shadows, to destroy hotspots of corruption in society. He never had any special grudge against Gotham. So why nuke it after Batman/Gordon/Dent basically wiped out the majority of the corruption? How is releasing all the criminals in the city and letting them take over and kill and murder and rape honoring Ras' ideals, which was ultimately to combat corruption and make the world a better place?

Makes no sense at all.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._

Makes no sense at all. [/B]

I mean the start of TDKR establishes that Gotham is crime-free, thanks to Harvey's actions & the "retiring" of Batman.

Why would Talia/LOS still consider Gotham's need for cleansing?

^Because she needed to spite Ras?...but that would contradict what she said she was doing. Would've been better if it were Bane's plan since the whole revenge against Batman/Ras would make some kind of sense.

Cause the movie needed a reason for a nuke?

Because she wanted to twist the knife in Batmans side by hooking up a ****ing flatscreen TV into a prison so he can watch his city tear itself apart and explode, after which he'll spend the rest of his life in a hole, crippled and aware that he failed.

Because he basically killed her dad.

Yeah, Talia's scheme was primarily about revenge.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But showing us that was not necessary because...we saw it once it was closed. And we knew that some "bossman" people were in charge in that other "relm" so there is very little in the form of suspension of disbelief on the viewers part. We do not have to be shown the central ops to understand that closing that rift shut off communication to their ships or robots: that's very obvious. Why would communication continue across the universe or across dimensions after the rift is closed?

I'm not talking about communication I'm talking about the aliens shutting down. Sure, they could become disorganized or something, but having them shut down is entirely contrived simply because there was no previous reason to believe that the mother ship was controlling all their actions.

Originally posted by dadudemon
HOWEVER! In TDKR, we have no idea how Bruce Wayne made it back to Gotham City in less than a day. We have no idea how he maintained that buff figure on a starvation diet. We have no idea how he had time to paint the bat symbol on the bridge. Etc. etc. etc.

I don't need to be shown a central computer or processing command ops to know that the robots were being controlled by something like that. But I do need to see how Bruce Wayne did lots of the stuff he supposedly did....

It wasn't less than a day... We don't know what the time frame was. And I disagree, how Bats got back to America isn't important to the actual plot of the movie. Now if he escaped the Pit without us seeing, now that would be a problem as that was actually a plot point of the film.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Comparing the two plot holes as gaps is like comparing a crack to a crevice.

I honestly can't remember what Joker's motives were for crashing the fundraiser but once Bats saves Rachel from falling....where did Harvey himself go? I remember Harvey at the start but he was nowhere to be seen to defend Rachel when Joker held a blade to her throat...?

Perhaps, but how the Joker got the bombs aboard the ferries and hospital is a far bigger "plot hole" than how Bane got some bikes into the Stock Exchange.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I can easily speculate that The Joker & his goons "pretended" to deliver supplies (explosives) to both the hospital & ferry & hide them in storage rooms...but seriously how & where do you hide 3 or 4 trail bikes inside the Stock Exchange? Clearly NOT in the car-park as they rode them out of the entrance doors.

Bane and his goons were also pretending to bring in "supplies"... And they hid them in the boxes or some shit.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
The story telling was not as consistent as BB or TDK.
I remember participating in the message boards for Begins in 2005 & also TDK in 2008...from memory hardly anyone had issues regarding obvious plot holes or PIS like TDKR suffered from.

What's wrong with having high expectations for a film considering all the marketing, promos & the calibre of names attached to TDKR?

that is because people liked them.. there is nothing with having expectations for films, the thing is though when those said expectations aren't met you then have people crying, whining, nitpicking over least little things.. ask anyone on these boards about who my fave comic book character is and they'll tell you its Batman whom I have liked since I was 4 years old.. And yet you have never ever seen me cry, =whine, nitpick over sillyness like it has been going on regarding The Dark Knight Rises.. I knew there was no way possible that Chris Nolan could have outdone, outshine, etc with what he did with The Dark Knight so I just wanted a really good film with a good story and that is I good/..

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
No, I watched the movie & paid attention to the sloppy story-telling.

then how would you know he won't answer with "because he's the f*cking batman"?

Originally posted by super pr*xy
then how would you know he won't answer with "because he's the f*cking batman"?

You're really missing the point.
Was it Batman or Bruce Wayne who climbed out of the pit?

We're talking about how a broken, penniless Bruce Wayne with no ID, no money in his pockets & the only possessions on him are the clothes he's wearing gets from the pit back to Gotham.

How does, "because he's f-ing Batman" explain that?

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
ask anyone on these boards about who my fave comic book character is and they'll tell you its Batman whom I have liked since I was 4 years old.. And yet you have never ever seen me cry, =whine, nitpick over sillyness like it has been going on regarding The Dark Knight Rises.. I knew there was no way possible that Chris Nolan could have outdone, outshine, etc with what he did with The Dark Knight so I just wanted a really good film with a good story and that is I good/.. [/B]

I've got 3 images of Batman tattooed on me. You really want to compare that to "reading Batman since I was four."?

Nolan could've outdone & outshone by paying closer attention & RESPECT to the mythos of the character. The fact that he called the last 2 movies, The Dark Knight kinda implies that he read Frank Miller's graphic novel & yet he learned nothing from it & thought he knew better.

bruce wayne is batman.. i don't think he really cares about his money.. i never saw him distraught about it.. he still had some shit worth something.. plus he's the f*cking batman.. he doesn't need ID for sh!t.. if you can't see that, then you're the one missing the point.. you're underestimating batman for the sake of a plothole.. he's the f*cking batman, he figured it out.. just because its not onscreen doesn't mean he can't do it.. he's a first-class ninja, a billionaire playboy, and a f*cking superhero..

Originally posted by ares834

Bane and his goons were also pretending to bring in "supplies"... And they hid them in the boxes or some shit. [/B]

Now we're paying with the scenario that Bane & goons dismantled all the bikes, packed the parts into boxes, "delivered" them to the Stock Exchange & then re-assembled them inside to ride out.

Okaaay.