Anyone seen that A + X book?.........its like the versus book how it had two stories
Man, if Cyclops, rather than having become Phoenix, had been a sneaky bastard and tactically set Hope up as the hail-mary Phoenix who, against all odds, restarted the human race (while threatening the lives of countless others), this would be a great storyline.
It's the 'twist' of turning Cyclops into a phoenix host and then having him cross a number of lines that don't add to the story nor resolve anything with his character.
Bah. I'll just remember it my way.
Originally posted by the ninjak
Can't blame Scott for what he did whilst under the influence.
I was going to say that's debatable. He's a veteran when it comes to the Phoenix but technically he didn't ask for it. Stark has some blame as they got the Phoenix because of him. Would Scott have been able to tell the Phoenix to get out of him? Doubt it.
True. Though his intentions were true...save the mutant race!
And once he obtained the Phoenix Force (Unplanned) he went all out.
But whilst he did it he did his best with the rest of the five to heal the world to the best of their capabilities.
Food crops. Criminal imprisonment/destruction. ect.
And he failed because he was the last man standing compared to Emma....who is a *****.
He took her power and took the brunt of the responsibility. Something Emma should have been able to handle considering advanced existence in the Astral Plane and its workings. Though she fell hard and Scott still held strong.
Scott held stronger than a high level telepath, a mystic hellspawn, a poetic strong minded being holding the Cytorrak lineage, and a king of Atlantis.
It's true that Magik was manipulating Colossus the whole time but Scott won out the power struggle in spectacular fashion.
He was right..........and he won. And the consequences are his to bear alone.
Originally posted by the ninjakI think Scott was probably able to hang unto his humanity more less because of power and more because of his dealings with the Phoenix before. He knew what to expect and what was going on. It was still corrupting him decisively he crossed more than a few lines.
True. Though his intentions were true...save the mutant race!And once he obtained the Phoenix Force (Unplanned) he went all out.
But whilst he did it he did his best with the rest of the five to heal the world to the best of their capabilities.Food crops. Criminal imprisonment/destruction. ect.
And he failed because he was the last man standing compared to Emma....who is a *****.
He took her power and took the brunt of the responsibility. Something Emma should have been able to handle considering advanced existence in the Astral Plane and its workings. Though she fell hard and Scott still held strong.
Scott held stronger than a high level telepath, a mystic hellspawn, a poetic strong minded being holding the Cytorrak lineage, and a king of Atlantis.
It's true that Magik was manipulating Colossus the whole time but Scott won out the power struggle in spectacular fashion.
He was right..........and he won. And the consequences are his to bear alone.
Originally posted by Newjak
I think Scott was probably able to hang unto his humanity more less because of power and more because of his dealings with the Phoenix before. He knew what to expect and what was going on. It was still corrupting him decisively he crossed more than a few lines.
One would think Emma, who has always existed in Jean's shadow...would've upheld a stronger front considering the fact that Scott had always held her on a pedestal.
Yet she fell hard to the sways of the Phoenix Force. Scott relied on her to hold strong yet she failed on the strongest level. And he had to take her down and take the brunt of the force himself!!!
Which eventuated in the death of his role model and mentor.
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I was going to say that's debatable. He's a veteran when it comes to the Phoenix but technically he didn't ask for it. Stark has some blame as they got the Phoenix because of him. Would Scott have been able to tell the Phoenix to get out of him? Doubt it.
Stark wouldn't have been able to handle it at all aggreably.
Stark seperated the Force though thankfully if he didn't the world would've been destroyed.
Stark saved the Earth.
Originally posted by the ninjakAre you trying to blame Scott's killing of Xavier on Emma's 'weakness'????
One would think Emma, who has always existed in Jean's shadow...would've upheld a stronger front considering the fact that Scott had always held her on a pedestal.
Yet she fell hard to the sways of the Phoenix Force. Scott relied on her to hold strong yet she failed on the strongest level. And he had to take her down and take the brunt of the force himself!!!Which eventuated in the death of his role model and mentor.
Stark wouldn't have been able to handle it at all aggreably.
Stark seperated the Force though thankfully if he didn't the world would've been destroyed.
Stark saved the Earth.
As for the rest Scott has a strong emotional connection to Jean he's seen what the Phoenix can do he was probably more aware and able to train his mind to the effects and even than he was still crossing lines all over the place.
Scott wasn't as right as he thinks and him trying to say he is right is awkward and makes him seem crazy. Hope would have destroyed the world the first time Scott tried to give her the Phoenix force.
Originally posted by Newjak
Are you trying to blame Scott's killing of Xavier on Emma's 'weakness'????As for the rest Scott has a strong emotional connection to Jean he's seen what the Phoenix can do he was probably more aware and able to train his mind to the effects and even than he was still crossing lines all over the place.
Scott wasn't as right as he thinks and him trying to say he is right is awkward and makes him seem crazy. Hope would have destroyed the world the first time Scott tried to give her the Phoenix force.
Best response I could've hoped for.
Hope probably would've failed if she didn't have her friends nearby to aid her in the process.
Though regardless the question is the Phoenix Five and the fact that they received the power to expell the force ....which they couldn't.
No NewJack I didn't state that Xavier's death was because Emma failed to grasp the responsibility of the Phoenix Force and Scott had to take charge. I simply stated that she should've been more resiliant in regards to the forces effects. But she failed heavily. And Scott alone had to deal with the consequences.
Scott's fall from power was inevitable and eventually refueled the mutant race regardless. He believed in Hope and she indeed repelled the force and in the process reignited the mutant race.
The true question is would Hope have done the same thing if UNIT didn't force DANGER to defeat Hope's friends from meeting her on the moon once the PF made its first arrival?
Originally posted by the ninjakI think the answer to that one is pretty clear she would have gone mad without the help of her friends.
Best response I could've hoped for.Hope probably would've failed if she didn't have her friends nearby to aid her in the process.
Though regardless the question is the Phoenix Five and the fact that they received the power.
No NewJack I didn't state that Xavier's death was because Emma failed to grasp the responsibility of the Phoenix Force and Scott had to take charge. Scott's fall from power was inevitable and eventually refueled the mutant race regardless. He believed in Hope and she indeed repelled the force and in the process reignited the mutant race.
The true question is would Hope have done the same thing if UNIT didn't force DANGER to defeat Hope's friends from meeting her on the moon once the PF made its first arrival?
You could argue that maybe there was a chance she wouldn't have but based on UNIT's discussion on the matter and the narrative behind the story he told the high probability was she would have been corrupted and lost control without her friends help.
Originally posted by Newjak
I think the answer to that one is pretty clear she would have gone mad without the help of her friends.You could argue that maybe there was a chance she wouldn't have but based on UNIT's discussion on the matter and the narrative behind the story he told the high probability was she would have been corrupted and lost control without her friends help.
Exactly! She had a high chance of achieving her goal if UNIT didn't interfere with her goals.
Hence Scott and his Extinction Team took on the brunt of the consequence of the Phoenix Force.
Scott is hardly to blame but is the strongest link in the chain in making the end game work.
He made it happen no matter what.
Originally posted by the ninjakExcept UNIT did interfere, and even if he hadn't the truth is they were still down a member cause one of them had died, Hope didn't have all of her friends. No one knew for sure if the 4 would have been enough.
Exactly! She had a high chance of achieving her goal if UNIT didn't interfere with her goals.Hence Scott and his Extinction Team took on the brunt of the consequence of the Phoenix Force.
Scott is hardly to blame but is the strongest link in the chain in making the end game work.
He made it happen no matter what.
Scott is to blame though. He risked billions of lives on what amounts to a blind faith idea that Phoenix was gonna jump start Mutant kind again because the host could control it.
He is only considered right because what he wanted ended up happening.
Just because what you wanted to happen does doesn't mean you were right or justified in your actions.
I could go out and take all my money out of a bank and purchase lottery tickets with it all and leave myself broke on the hopes that I will strike it big. Regardless of whether I win or lose anybody at that point and time would say I was stupid for doing it, and they would be right. I could win and be a millionaire but that doesn't make me right it makes me extremely fortunate that happened to be the outcome I got.
That's what happened with Scott. He got extremely lucky during the whole thing. Hope wasn't ready and based on UNIT's testimony would have likely destroyed the Earth and everyone on it. So billions would have died had Scott been allowed to follow through with his plan unchecked.
Also his ultimate goal itself was lame to me. It wasn't like the previous mutants had been destroyed when they lost their powers. It didn't keep humans from giving birth it just kept them from giving birth to babies with powers. Those same children that would have been born mutants were still going to be born just without powers.
So essentially Scott wasn't fighting for the 'lives' of those people he was simply fighting for them to be born with mutant powers. For that he was willing to risk every single life on Earth to do it including the same people he was saying he was trying save.
Maybe you think he was simply trying to save humanity from itself by allowing evolution to continue but honestly that is also lame to me. Marvel Earth is home to brilliant minds that weren't born mutants, and there is ton of miracle tech on the planet.
Humanity would have kept evolving through the sheer fact they would have advanced genetic engineering to alter and make them stronger, faster, smarter. Cybernetic could also be used, as could suits. Either way humanity had the capabilities of evolving even if it wasn't through natural mutation.
Had it not turned out the way Scott wanted he would have totally been blamed for the loss of entire planet full of life.
To be fair, Cyclops did have a Mutant Messiah and his future Son to make him believe there was more than just "luck" into the mix. If you win a lottery ticket because of some temporal hijinks, then the idiocy of winning the lottery is put into question. Also, the disparition of mutants as a genetic trait in humanity is kind of a shame on itself, to reduce them into just "humans" would be like having bears dissapearing and then justifying it by saying "hey, dogs still exist and bears descended from the same animal once upon the time", so suddenly that justifies the end of bears?
I'm not saying Marvel managed to pull anything remotely reasonable with this plot, but given the kind of thing that happens in the Marvel universe... Well, Cyclops was really just aknowledging his world was crazy and the bet payed.
Originally posted by BentleyIt's not the same as saying bears and dogs.
To be fair, Cyclops did have a Mutant Messiah and his future Son to make him believe there was more than just "luck" into the mix. If you win a lottery ticket because of some temporal hijinks, then the idiocy of winning the lottery is put into question. Also, the disparition of mutants as a genetic trait in humanity is kind of a shame on itself, to reduce them into just "humans" would be like having bears dissapearing and then justifying it by saying "hey, dogs still exist and bears descended from the same animal once upon the time", so suddenly that justifies the end of bears?I'm not saying Marvel managed to pull anything remotely reasonable with this plot, but given the kind of thing that happens in the Marvel universe... Well, Cyclops was really just aknowledging his world was crazy and the bet payed.
If bears equal the mutants in scenario and dogs equal humans this is how it would play out.
Dogs give birth to the bears.
Suddenly the Bears that are alive all become dogs, they still act and think the same they did before they just aren't bears.
Also all instead of dogs having a chance of giving birth to a bear they instead now only give birth to dogs.
Also the dogs have the technology to turn themselves into bears regardless of whether or not it's natural.
You see when most people think extinction of species they think lose of life. As in if all the bears were extinct that means they were all killed off.
What happened with mutants was that the ones that were alive simply lost their powers, while the ones that were gonna be born were still gonna be born just without them.
Maybe what Scott did would have been justifiable had there been no chance of harm coming to billions of people but there was an extreme chance, in hindsight Scott's plan would have failed if had been unchecked by the Avengers, that billions could have lost their lives. In fact regardless of this lives were lost because of it.