Kratos vs The Lich King

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Yeah, no. At his size, humans would not be capable of existing.

Light = explosion.

He does not have to physically be in the Chamber itself to manip time & space.

Yeah, no. The son is the ignorant one here, whose knowledge is not comparable to that of the father's. Then again, the son is typically always ignorant. He has a very active imagination though. Everyone finds that amusing.

Those are some great arguments, really, but no evidence? Scenario is not even part of the thread but his interest in trying to counter me in any thread brought him to bring some factors to consider, does not help you though, Cronos has still tanked nothing.

Erm, as I said the explosion has a different hue, she glows, much like every godlike being has done in death and then explodes, in a different hue.

Thats never been shown or proven, this claim sort of spits in the eye of the entire game of GoW 3, where many oppertunities would have been useful for him to just port back to the loom chamber and play with threads of fate. This is not the case, I think your mistaking the "manipulation" of threads before he started porting, he stopped those manipulations after he has all the Titans with him. I like how your counter to Neme for those statues is that EA apprently has to specifcally say their not here, its actually the opposite so you need to also look into this forums general activities as well and learn the rules, we dont automatically assume all nick nacks that help our characters are there in the thread for them. if that were the case, Kain can use timestreaming devices...

Yes active imagination, like Titan tossing Kratos who can control his fate on the fly and move and fight hypersonic? does that about cover you?

Look up your source again, none of those things are evident, many like the loom chamber thing show a lack of understanding on the fundementals of the series.

Couldn't sleep, go figure.

Reaction feats don’t measure the speed of the attack/other, but the time it took for it to be launched and reach the target.

But when we see Kratos react to them, clearly they were not moving at hypersonic, because we as the player also had time to react.

This is not.

1. Zoom out far enough and you'd be amazed how fast something can move while still being easy to watch. Particularly large objects.
2. This is fundamentally wrong because in gameplay the player has to be able to react to things. :/ Players are not the superhumans that the protagonists we play as are. Many can dodge bullets, or even stop them and line them up if they're flashy, white haired douches. Humans can't, lol. This doesn't mean bullets are subsonic in any game where they're dodgable by the player.

Originally posted by NemeBro

To be perfectly blunt the hand of a Titan is stronger than anything Arthas has demonstrated, at least, that you have shown me. They can chuck boulders that are about the size of their torsos (So over a hundred meters) thousands of feet into the air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3rgcBaI4v8&feature=player_embedded

This can be seen at about 7:25 in.

Something similar can be seen here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOzGvWPQjxs&feature=relmfu

At about 2:35 we see Hades pulling on his chain blades, before making a Titan tumble.

Hades has another strength feat here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_V5wXQW96Q

At about 0:10 in, we see Hades restraining a struggling Cronos. Now granted, he had leverage when he did this, but even being able to pull something as large as Cronos, let alone fighting against his strength (For reference, he has been, in the GoW setting, been carrying a big ass palace on his back for thousands of years, without tiring, so he's not just big, he's superhumanly powerful for his size as well) is a very good strength feat, better than what I have seen for Arthas.

Whats the point of all this again? The only force from a Titan Kratos has witnessed is from being prodded by Chronos' finger, thats about it and to push it away he slashes it as well, Chronos just laughs....

If your argueing that Kratos is stronger than Hades then this is not evident at all....hades was enormous in those fights, wheras when he was fighting Kratos he was at best 20 feet+.

Oh, and Chronos is cearly not going to be at his peak when he does face Kratos, the guy as you said has had a building on his back, crawling around for centuries and is so covered by cuts and sores and massive holes like small canyons from where the chains have bitten into him. I am pretty sure if you put a rock on the back of the strongest man in the world and made him crawl through the desert hes not going to be at his peak assuming they drag him out alive.

To add to that, this whole "he overpowered leviathans" thing is also pointless, most of the time their using single claws against him and are also fighting for purchase on Gaia at the same time whos moving about, its like trying to hold onto something have having something else attacking it at the same time.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Couldn't sleep, go figure.

This is correct.

This is not.

1. Zoom out far enough and you'd be amazed how fast something can move while still being easy to watch. Particularly large objects.
2. This is fundamentally wrong because in gameplay the player [b]has to be able to react to things. :/ Players are not the superhumans that the protagonists we play as are. Many can dodge bullets, or even stop them and line them up if they're flashy, white haired douches. Humans can't, lol. This doesn't mean bullets are subsonic in any game where they're dodgable by the player. [/B]

I don't presume it has occured that it is the other way around and it's a possibility no one has considered.

"A scientific principle often ignored in media" this is the first line something someone linked. Does it occur to no one else that these beings aren't intended to be hypersonic, but simply huge. That they are not trying to insinuate that Kratos can react to hyper sonic speeds so much as simply fight these huge beings? Isn't that enough for you people?

There are probably several instances where were Kratos as fast as implied he would have been able to respond differently, yet he doesn't. Maybe I'm being ill-conceited towards him, quite possibly. But when I watch these videos at no point do I feel that the creators meant for these to be the insanely fast things you guys are making them out to be.

I think the problem people argueing GoW have is that their talking about vast entities, they dont have to be hypersonic to travel distance in X speed because of their sheer size. You can obviously see in cutscenes or otherwise the speed of the blocks of stone they throw their not hypersonic or even super, otherwise not only would large chunks fall of but the heat would build as well.

Also, things that are fast is one thing, Kratos reacting to them is another. Theres no real reaction here on hypersonic levels.

Nor max strength beyond about 200 tons+

Also conerning the hades fight, Hades has no real durability feats and smashing his head against the roof of his home can smash his helmet off and reveal his skull underneath without damaging the stone. Yet, Kratos with his blades has to put some effort into carving small piecies off of Hades.....

This is consistent with the fact, even putting into some effort he moves a light casque carrying persephone just a few meters and requires to do it more than one to break what looks like an iron statues chest, as well as consistent with requiring a wooden club wielding Cyclopse to knock a few mooks aside.

Theres more consistency in Kratos being in the tens-hundreds of tons strength than any higher values, and as for speed, fighting enemies that can go fast is completly different to fighting enemies that did when he fought them. And using feats from other gods in novels and argueing "well zeus has to be faster!" is also not even worth mentioning, its laughable.

To be clear, my issue was with the idea behind it, this part specifically:

clearly they were not moving at hypersonic, because we as the player also had time to react.

Games as a medium have to allow for human players. I'm not specifically talking about instances of Kratos fighting huge monsters.

I'm not too invested in this thread, but I'll comment that
-You are correct in what reaction time is, it's how much time you have to react. /Obvious
-While it is possible these creatures are just meant to be huge, Kratos fights other stuff as well and has other feats. The gods are smaller and have some pretty intentional feats. Poseidon for example dive bombing that Titan has a plain visual effect to show his speed, and the scale of the titans and such does ensure he is moving a few miles in a few seconds.

...But this isn't my argument to make. I'll just leave it at: Gameplay makes concessions for the human player. We cannot disregard something because a player can react to it. We're the ones the games are made for, after all. 😛

Wheres the concession here? What scene?

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Unless you think ghouls would actually be a significant threat against a dragon like Sapphiron (I’m telling you that is not the case) it’s mostly a moot point. Anub’Arak is a decent assist. But he did precisely that. Assist.

Not only ghouls(although they are a good distraction), but crypt fiends and aboms. Come to think of it, these guys were more helpful in the fight than Arthas himself.

I cannot recall the forces you engage with it in the game. However I can tell you all he crosses the sea with canonically is some ghouls and a couple of necromancers. Neither of which would pose any threat to Sapphiron. They don't receive much nerubian support until they enter Azjol Nerub. It really was pretty much just Arthas and Anub'Arak.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
I cannot recall the forces you engage with it in the game. However I can tell you all he crosses the sea with canonically is some ghouls and a couple of necromancers. Neither of which would pose any threat to Sapphiron. They don't receive much nerubian support until they enter Azjol Nerub. It really was pretty much just Arthas and Anub'Arak.

Anub'arak brought a bunch of Nerubians with him. Arthas at that point already had a base of operations set up with Ghouls, Meat Wagons, Crypt Fiends, Necromancers, and other undead nasties riding at his back. Though to be fair, Sapphiron also had backup.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Anub'arak brought a bunch of Nerubians with him. Arthas at that point already had a base of operations set up with Ghouls, Meat Wagons, Crypt Fiends, Necromancers, and other undead nasties riding at his back. Though to be fair, Sapphiron also had backup.

Perhaps this is the case in the warcraft III game, I did say I cannot recall specifically. In the book however, (which is truer to the events according to lore and as stated in the OP a credible source for this thread) they cannot construct a base in mere minutes, nor would doing so provide any benefits. The moment they get off the ships they are attacked by Kael'Thas and his dragonhawk riders. He escapes via teleport due to Arthas losing further power, still hurting him greatly in the book.

From then it's a straight dash to Icecrown.

As i said in the book he only has some very basic stuff. The Dreadlords and Sylvanas see to that.

Well, I haven't read the books. The Frozen Throne is really my only source. I imagine Arthas and his Necromancers raised Kael's slaughtered forces and added Anub'arak and his Nerubians to his forces, creating a small army.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well, I haven't read the books. The Frozen Throne is really my only source. I imagine Arthas and his Necromancers raised Kael's slaughtered forces and added Anub'arak and his Nerubians to his forces, creating a small army.

There weren't that many of them, they killed more than there were. Mostly it was just a nuisance. And as I said most of the nerubians met up with them in Azjol Nerub. The party they moved with until that time was small.

Looking over some things Im wondering how Kratos will fair against the Ashbringer given that huge blast in the pic EA posted.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Looking over some things Im wondering how Kratos will fair against the Ashbringer given that huge blast in the pic EA posted.

Very well. Ashbringer is a Holy Weapon. Ergo unless you are actually evil/unholy it wouldn't give a tenth of that kind of power against you.

Kratos would beat the crap out of Tirion. Even Uther I suspect.