Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok, here's what we could do.Speedsters vs telepaths. Do we have instances of human telepaths owning human speedsters? Because we certainly have instances of the Flash owning telepaths.
Dunno, your best best is to ask one of them X-men fans and ask if quicksilver has ever been pawned by Jean, Prof. X, Psylocke, etc.
Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
Dunno, your best best is to ask one of them X-men fans and ask if quicksilver has ever been pawned by Jean, Prof. X, Psylocke, etc.
Oh yeah, there's him lol, forgot about that. I know Mr X tried his mind reading shtick, only to realise he was too fast for his own mind to process.
Before Psylocke was turned into an Asian looking Super Model, she had a sparring competition with Rogue. Rogue believed that she was hitting Betsy, but in fact she hit a rock.
The only way that I can see a telepath doing well against a speedster is if the telepath could think as fast as the speedster. If this is the case, then the telepath would be able to perform the same trickery that Betsy performed on Rogue.
There was another account of a similar thing happening, and it happened when Superman fought Masacre (or however you spell his name). Masacre wasn't really a telepath in the way how he used his powers, but he could read an opponents muscle fibers, which would alert him, allowing for him to block, parry, and pummel him. Superman thought that Masacre was actually faster than him. Sooo....
Originally posted by Stoic
Before Psylocke was turned into an Asian looking Super Model, she had a sparring competition with Rogue. Rogue believed that she was hitting Betsy, but in fact she hit a rock.The only way that I can see a telepath doing well against a speedster is if the telepath could think as fast as the speedster. If this is the case, then the telepath would be able to perform the same trickery that Betsy performed on Rogue.
There was another account of a similar thing happening, and it happened when Superman fought Masacre (or however you spell his name). Masacre wasn't really a telepath in the way how he used his powers, but he could read an opponents muscle fibers, which would alert him, allowing for him to block, parry, and pummel him. Superman thought that Masacre was actually faster than him. Sooo....
I'd see that as a low showing for Superman, tbh.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'd see that as a low showing for Superman, tbh.
Not sure if I can agree with you 100%, i can see where you're coming from though. All the same, if Superman didn't figure out Masacre's powerset, he would have likely lost again. They just wrote Masascre to be a badass back then is my guess.
Originally posted by Stoic
Before Psylocke was turned into an Asian looking Super Model, she had a sparring competition with Rogue. Rogue believed that she was hitting Betsy, but in fact she hit a rock.The only way that I can see a telepath doing well against a speedster is if the telepath could think as fast as the speedster. If this is the case, then the telepath would be able to perform the same trickery that Betsy performed on Rogue.
There was another account of a similar thing happening, and it happened when Superman fought Masacre (or however you spell his name). Masacre wasn't really a telepath in the way how he used his powers, but he could read an opponents muscle fibers, which would alert him, allowing for him to block, parry, and pummel him. Superman thought that Masacre was actually faster than him. Sooo....
Yeah, I get what you're saying, and I agree 100% with you. Put two opponents together, who have equal speeds of thought, and the telepath would win. So if I had a crowbar, and was up against Prof X, being both of equal human-level reaction speeds, he would own me. Even ignoring of course the fact I'm a desk jockey and Prof X is a trained fighter lol.
BUT, speedsters, by their very nature, are quicker on the draw. So in reply to the OP, I still think that a mass flurry of superspeed punches would be faster than a mindrape (distance and power permitting, of course - I'm thinking of the Exalom 19 fight lol).
What would be interesting would be to see a speed-telepathster fighting. Martian Manhunter vs White Martians, for example.
Originally posted by Stoic
Not sure if I can agree with you 100%, i can see where you're coming from though. All the same, if Superman didn't figure out Masacre's powerset, he would have likely lost again. They just wrote Masascre to be a badass back then is my guess.
Maybe. And it was back in the day before they really explored his speed, iirc.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, just to add to the debate, its alsways tricky when debating alien speeds and reaction times. For all we know, MAssacre's race may indeed be faster than Kryptonians....
Uh oh, you're treading on thin ice.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Maybe. And it was back in the day before they really explored his speed, iirc.
For sure, Superman is or at least was more powerful than he was when Masacre beat him the first time around before DCnU came into play.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, just to add to the debate, its alsways tricky when debating alien speeds and reaction times. For all we know, MAssacre's race may indeed be faster than Kryptonians....
Given the swift kicking Superman gave him in later years, I'm not so sure.
Originally posted by Stoic
Uh oh, you're treading on thin ice.For sure, Superman is or at least was more powerful than he was when Masacre beat him the first time around before DCnU came into play.
Aye.
Just to add to this, its perception then reaction.
For example, while driving and then encountering an accident or an obstacle, the average person's perception time is less than a second. What takes time is after perceiving the obstacle, the decision on what to do, whether to swerve left or right or to try and stop, once that decision is made, the appropriate action is taken which is the reaction time.
Lets take Thor's reaction to Phoenix's mental blast. The mental blast was said to be instantaneous and is probably the speed of thought. Thor was able to block it and counter with very little effort. Its not that he can think that fast, its just that its more like a reflex action. When he perceived the mental blast, after centuries of fighting, he instinctively reacted without having to think of what to do.
Now back to the mental assault vs speedblitz, if say the two had the same thought speed, but the speedster has an instinctive reaction to dash immediately once the fight starts, the telepath is screwed. But if say, the telepath has an instinctive reaction to do a AOE mental bomb right of the bat, I'd have to say that the speedster would get his brain fried before he reaches the telepath. But thats just me.
Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
Just to add to this, its perception then reaction.For example, while driving and then encountering an accident or an obstacle, the average person's perception time is less than a second. What takes time is after perceiving the obstacle, the decision on what to do, whether to swerve left or right or to try and stop, once that decision is made, the appropriate action is taken which is the reaction time.
Lets take Thor's reaction to Phoenix's mental blast. The mental blast was said to be instantaneous and is probably the speed of thought. Thor was able to block it and counter with very little effort. Its not that he can think that fast, its just that its more like a reflex action. When he perceived the mental blast, after centuries of fighting, he instinctively reacted without having to think of what to do.
Now back to the mental assault vs speedblitz, if say the two had the same thought speed, but the speedster has an instinctive reaction to dash immediately once the fight starts, the telepath is screwed. But if say, the telepath has an instinctive reaction to do a AOE mental bomb right of the bat, I'd have to say that the speedster would get his brain fried before he reaches the telepath. But thats just me.
Agreed. The only problem is that the two do not have the same thought speed - speedsters must (and do) have faster thought processes.
And this is with a pissed off Gorilla. Am I going to argue that Gorillas have faster reaction times than a comparable human? Maybe. Lol.
Since the scope of either ability is largely character (or even writer) determined, I look at it this way...
- The actual 'speed of thought' - the neural impulses - is pretty slow (ie, compared to light*): something like 100 meters/second, at best. So even if the telepathic 'bullet' is instantaneous ('nonlocal' as some theoretical physicists might say), the pulling of the neural trigger is the woefully weak link. (*The speed of light is about 300,000 km/sec: about 3 million times faster.)
- As a speedster, even if I could 'only' do 1/100 lightspeed, I'm still 30,000 x faster in my own sensorimotor / neural functioning (otherwise how could I coordinate my speedblitz) than someone else's neural trigger.
- Moreso, telepathy is only effective against living things, whereas speedblitzing is applicable whenever. Ie, if I can punch superfast, I should be able to dodge superfast if, say, a Skynet H-K is after me (since the OP didn't specify, I see no logical reasoning to assume my superspeed would be task-specific, ie, only good for punching).
But again, comics-wise: which is better is going to depend on the character and/or the writer.
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ 👆Great debating here friends.
Just to add,
" is moving all matter apart by expanding Space,
it's known nowadays that "[b]Dark Energy
but incredibly its propelling the farther Galaxies outward faster than the speed of light.So both "Thought" & "Space" are faster than light. ... 😖mart: [/B]
Really? I mean, not saying you're wrong, but I find it hard to believe the universe is expanding faster than light....
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Really? I mean, not saying you're wrong, but I find it hard to believe the universe is expanding faster than light....
even with that being said there is evidence depicting that both thought and ftl speed (in comics ) are roughly equal. once the playing field is leveled like that youd have to give the nod to psychics since no travel time is required