Spiderman vs Iron Fist

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Danny can one-shot Pete with either hand. Pete can't realistically one-shot Danny here. That's a significant advantage.

Or one could just as easily say that Danny's skill counters Pete's slight speed advantage and SS. It's not an overwhelming "counter" either way, which is kinda my point. Fair fight--each with skills that challenge the other.

Also: I'm unimpressed by the usefulness of SS in 1-on-1 fights. It's great against groups, so he can react to attacks from any direction. But if he only has one opponent to focus on, the only way we can see it work is by observing his reflexes. But Danny's natural reflexes are already on the same tier, so there is no quantifiable advantage.

are you really trying to tell me that a punch from a no holding back spider- man wont KO danny? give me a break, spider man bust cement walls and concrete regulary with his averege punches, he is actually able to effect class 100 bricks with his punches and actually busted iron mans armor with a punch while mad, and you are trying to tell me he wont KO danny? better back this shit up

danny cant counter with his skill all the things spidy got on him, while having better skill it wont make him move faster because no matter how skilled you are you cant move faster, therefor the speed advantage is > skill advantage , second of all lest also bring out the spider sense which means lets say spidy can land 3 shots at the time danny will be able to land 1 , his spider sense will worn him about that 1 punch he will avoid it via spider sense and greater speed and continue to ko danny

spider man reflex are on a higher level than danny as well as his overall speed, his spider sense is worning him off upcoming danger which he use perfectly with his speed reflex and agility to avoid the harm like he demonstrated many times vs foes such as lizard who is also super humanly fast and also has huge reach advantage over spidy with his tail and yet his spider sense works perfectly allowing him to counter and avoid attacks either 1 vs 1 or vs groups

sometimes you see spider man get tagged but of course you dont expect writers to write down a character that most people cant touch right? in that case we go by overall abilities and by showings which support his abilities with comon sense and his high feats (didnt say high end), with all that the conclusion is simple and thats spider man simply owns danny like it or not, danny is a great character but dont push him to leagues he doesnt belong

Originally posted by red sabre
are you really trying to tell me that a punch from a no holding back spider- man wont KO danny?

Not in a fight. If this were one of those durability test thread where Danny has to stand still while Pete unleashes the biggest haymaker he's got, then I'd give it 50/50. If Danny is allowed to move at all to prevent a square hit, then no way.

give me a break, spider man bust cement walls and concrete regulary with his averege punches

Pretty par for the course for a mid-tier meta. Danny will tank that all day. Or have you. It read much iron fist?

Pete "affecting" class 100s is either overselling it or PIS and you know it. At his peak, Pete is in the class 15-20 range. Next you're going to remind me that he punched out firelord...

danny cant counter with his skill all the things spidy got on him

So you say. I say you're wrong.

while having better skill it wont make him move faster because no matter how skilled you are you cant move faster, therefor the speed advantage is > skill advantage

Incorrect. While its true that a large speed advantage should allow you to outperform a more skilled opponent, the skilled opponent makes moves with less thought, less wasted motion and more precision. Thus, an untrained man with a slight speed advantage will still get owned by a judo master. And like you admit, Pete's speed is only slightly better.

The rest of your post was mind of a rant that didn't actually refute my point. I know how the SS works (by the way, it's "warn" with an "a"😉. But even with the SS Pete still in has slightly better feats than Danny at best. It could be argued that they're equal. So simply saying that its a huge advantage isn't supported by the evidence.

Red, the charter guy is here hooking up Internet in my new place, so I could post some scans in a bit if you really want. But you could also just look through Danny's respect thread or read up on some recentish stuff, like his fight with the Iron Fist slayer, which is a perfect example of him fighting against a much stronger, faster, more durable opponent and literally punching his head off.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Not in a fight. If this were one of those durability test thread where Danny has to stand still while Pete unleashes the biggest haymaker he's got, then I'd give it 50/50. If Danny is allowed to move at all to prevent a square hit, then no way.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I find it difficult to believe that Danny can take, without much problems, the biggest haymaker spidey has got.

If you know his history, it's an easy thing to believe. 🙁

Danny's survived everything from lethal doses of radiation without a rad suit, explosions from the apartment leveling variety to nuke level, and blunt force such as riding the outside of a speeding train and getting slammed into a tunnel wall, without breaking any bones..

Even in their early 70's/80's meetings, Spidey barely manages to daze Danny with a headbutt, yet exclaims in pain and hopes the fight won't continue because of how tough he seems..

Originally posted by SamZED
He grabbed him after Spider-man landed few unanswered hits. Spider-man's speed advAntage was shown throughout the rest of the fight as well. Its BT's durability that was the problem.

[B]
from a holding back and (lets be honest) jobbing Spider-man. I noticed you often speak of this fight as if its and end all be all example of how Spider-man fights and how his fight with IF should go. Its really not. Its a low showing for him in a book where the villain had to look good because he's the only bad guy of the story. There's no way Danny (or serpent for that matter) should tank an all out punch from Spider-man. Id go as far as say - not even from a holding back Spider-man when PIS is off.

In their initial encounter, you can argue Spidey was holding back. After the uppercut connects and SS still doesn't go down? Not so much.

The same applies with Black Tarantula, between their first and second encounters. To argue Spidey is going all out against BT, yet is holding back or being jobbed out to SS, is a double standard..

And if I cite this example often, it's only because posters ignore context and try and claim Spidey is jobbing to a human level martial artist.

That's not something Batman or Daredevil is going to do. Grabbing a leaping Spidey like that, swinging him around with enough force to knock Danny out on his feet, and tossing him like he weighs next to nothing is a super human feat.

And Steel Serpent could have easily replicated the beating Black Tarantula gave to Spidey in their first fight, by clubbing him into the floor or a wall.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I find it difficult to believe that Danny can take, without much problems, the biggest haymaker spidey has got.

I agree. He would have problems. I only guessed him staying conscious 50% of the time, in fact. But again, that's if he just stood there.

Here's some examples of things Danny has tanked, for comparison (note, I'm updating as I go):

http://s1052.photobucket.com/albums/s446/DreamStuffshare/Iron%20Fist%20Feats/

Also, keep in mind his fight against the Iron Fist Slayer, who seems comparable to Pete in strength. Danny took lots of shots from him while deliberately suppressing the dragon chi.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
I agree. He would have problems. I only guessed him staying conscious 50% of the time, in fact. But again, that's if he just stood there.

Here's some examples of things Danny has tanked, for comparison:

http://s1052.photobucket.com/albums/s446/DreamStuffshare/Iron%20Fist%20Feats/

Also, keep in mind his fight against the Iron Fist Slayer, who seems comparable to Pete in strength. Danny took lots of shots from him while deliberately suppressing the dragon chi.

I give you credit for going in there, because my photobucket isn't organized in the least.

I've even re-uploaded things I couldn't find again in that mess. 😮

Originally posted by cdtm
In their initial encounter, you can argue Spidey was holding back. After the uppercut connects and SS still doesn't go down? Not so much.

The same applies with Black Tarantula, between their first and second encounters. To argue Spidey is going all out against BT, yet is holding back or being jobbed out to SS, is a double standard..

And if I cite this example often, it's only because posters ignore context and try and claim Spidey is jobbing to a human level martial artist.

That's not something Batman or Daredevil is going to do. Grabbing a leaping Spidey like that, swinging him around with enough force to knock Danny out on his feet, and tossing him like he weighs next to nothing is a super human feat.

And Steel Serpent could have easily replicated the beating Black Tarantula gave to Spidey in their first fight, by clubbing him into the floor or a wall.

When I see Spider-man miss a webline from 20 feet away or get cornered by a 8-foot fence it's pretty clear to me he's getting jobbed out just so the hero of the story (in this case IF) could fight his own enemy and save the day. It's not double standart, just being objective. The idea that SS or IF can no-sell an all out punch from Spider-man (the kind that was shown shattering Iron Man's armor, leveling buildings and creating a shockwave powerful enough to crack concrete in a 20-foot radius) doesn't seem logical.

Using the SS fight as an example of how Spider-man would fair in all other fights is lowballing. It's not like he has no other feats or never faced more powerfull/durable opponents. The level of strength, speed, durability he demonstrated during that fight is clearly way belove his average shwings (let alone his best ones) so why should we use it as an example? It's not like IF doesn't have low showings. We should go by average for both. And that was not Spider-man's average. Not even close.

Im not saying that every time Spider-man loses to MA its jobbing (especially the ones that can amp) but very often his CIS gets the better of him, he either dances around too much or doesn't take the fight seriously enough or doesn't know when its time to stop holding back. At the same time there are countless examples when the same martial artists who gave him trouble in the past get 1-2 shotted by Pete the second it gets personal.

SS doesn't have BT's strength. And more importantly Spider-man on average wouldn't get knocked out by such attack. Just because it happened in one story doesnt mean it will happen again, it's a really bad case of A>B>C logic. It's like saying that any martial artist can put an armbar on Surfer because it happened once. Spider-man has taken hits way more powerful than that and got up like nothing happened. Im not even saying that classic Spider-man would win a majority against current Iron Fist but lets be objective and not use low showings for one character as if it's a standart while assuming that his opponent will fight at his absolute best.

Originally posted by h1a8
Dodging bullets by several feet (they missed you by several feet) is far better than dodging them by a fraction of an inch (they missed you by a fraction of an inch). The latter proves you are slower and can barely get out of the way. The former proves you are faster and can easily get out of the way. Get it?

This is basically the opposite of the truth.

1)This isn't a "bullet-dodging" competition where the winner is the one furthest from the bullet when it passes. This is a fight. It makes more since to dodge bullets by as little as possible so as not to waste time, energy, motion and momentum. I can dodge a single punch, but why would I jump three-feet away to do it?

2)Because dodging by fractions of an inch is harder--it would be much easier for me to dive out of the way of, say, a 90pmh baseball than to gently tilt my head around it while walking toward the pitcher.

3)It's true that narrowly dodging something is sometimes luck (as in, you'd dodge it by more if you could), but does Danny look like he's having a hard time here? He does it over and over without breaking stride. No. It's obviously intentional and obviously meant to showcase how unfazed he is by bullet speed.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
This is basically the opposite of the truth.

1)This isn't a "bullet-dodging" competition where the winner is the one furthest from the bullet when it passes. This is a fight. It makes more since to dodge bullets by as little as possible so as not to waste time, energy, motion and momentum. I can dodge a single punch, but why would I jump three-feet away to do it?

2)Because dodging by fractions of an inch is harder--it would be much easier for me to dive out of the way of, say, a 90pmh baseball than to gently tilt my head around it while walking toward the pitcher.

3)It's true that narrowly dodging something is sometimes luck (as in, you'd dodge it by more if you could), but does Danny look like he's having a hard time here? He does it over and over without breaking stride. No. It's obviously intentional and obviously meant to showcase how unfazed he is by bullet speed.

😆 at you replying to an old post.
Well I wasn't very clear there was I?
Let me be clearer.
IF could only manage to move a few inches in the time the bullet was in the air. This is his top speed. Spider-man on the other hand can move larger distances while the bullet is in the air. I understand your point about only dodging by a few inches, but IF had no choice.

With that said, throw my argument away. I concede that one. My new argument is that Spidey can wait til the bullet is within inches from him before moving out of the way. This my friend is speed.

Originally posted by SamZED
TBH dont see a reason why he wouldn't hold back trough the entire fight. He holds back vs his archenemies most of the time even knowing they can take a hit or have healing factors. It's been stated on-panel. So why would he go all out vs someone he barely knows, has no personal grudge against and doesn't know his limits? He even confirms on panel that he can't stop himself from holding back. Not saying he was using kid gloves but that was far from going all out.

When I see Spider-man miss a webline from 20 feet away or get cornered by a 8-foot fence it's pretty clear to me he's getting jobbed out just so the hero of the story (in this case IF) could fight his own enemy and save the day. It's not double standart, just being objective. The idea that SS or IF can no-sell an all out punch from Spider-man (the kind that was shown shattering Iron Man's armor, leveling buildings and creating a shockwave powerful enough to crack concrete in a 20-foot radius) doesn't seem logical.

Using the SS fight as an example of how Spider-man would fair in all other fights is lowballing. It's not like he has no other feats or never faced more powerfull/durable opponents. The level of strength, speed, durability he demonstrated during that fight is clearly way belove his average shwings (let alone his best ones) so why should we use it as an example? It's not like IF doesn't have low showings. We should go by average for both. And that was not Spider-man's average. Not even close.

Im not saying that every time Spider-man loses to MA its jobbing (especially the ones that can amp) but very often his CIS gets the better of him, he either dances around too much or doesn't take the fight seriously enough or doesn't know when its time to stop holding back. At the same time there are countless examples when the same martial artists who gave him trouble in the past get 1-2 shotted by Pete the second it gets personal.

SS doesn't have BT's strength. And more importantly Spider-man on average wouldn't get knocked out by such attack. Just because it happened in one story doesnt mean it will happen again, it's a really bad case of A>B>C logic. It's like saying that any martial artist can put an armbar on Surfer because it happened once. Spider-man has taken hits way more powerful than that and got up like nothing happened. Im not even saying that classic Spider-man would win a majority against current Iron Fist but lets be objective and not use low showings for one character as if it's a standart while assuming that his opponent will fight at his absolute best.

I see your points about Spidey being off his game in that story.. True, his webbing accuracy is usually a lot better than that.

The thing is, SS also gave Danny close fights multiple times. So the low balling works both ways, in assuming Spidey shouldn't struggle with someone Iron Fist struggled with.

But as far as comparing BT and Danny in sheer strength, I could toss out more examples, but one stands out to me:

In Brubakers and Fractions run, there was an Iron Fist killing demon, who took a sucker punch from Luke Cage that sent him flying pretty far (Maybe a football fields length, maybe more). Than Cage got him in a strangle hold.. And, the demon fought out of it.

Iron Fist, he was helpless against the creature, because every time he channeled his Iron Fist technique, it absorbed his chi. Plus, it seemed to read his moves before he even made him (Perhaps absorbing his chi gave him this ability, but it was never explained how it did this.)

So, what Danny does is refuse to use his Iron Fist, his techniques, and fight like a brawler, and has some success double teaming it with Luke Cage. But, even that doesn't stop it.. (Cage got knocked through a wall, btw, and gave an exclamation of pain. So it can hit hard enough to stagger Luke Cage.) Eventually, it comes down to only Danny and the demon on top of Randcorp building. Danny's wounded, and feigns defeat, completely masking his ki and leaving himself vulnerable. The demon attacks, and at the last moment Danny strikes, taking its head off its body.

There was no Iron Fist chi when he did this, so I have to assume it was not an Iron Fist amp he hit it with, but a standard chi amp that he'd use in his normal attacks. Danny's normal, non Iron Fist blows did more damage than all of Luke Cages blows....

That's just one example, and imo an example that best demonstrates even without the full IF amp, Danny can hit a lot harder than a street, and is comparable to Spidey or Black Tarantula in sheer hitting force "unamped", if not overall strength...

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Not in a fight. If this were one of those durability test thread where Danny has to stand still while Pete unleashes the biggest haymaker he's got, then I'd give it 50/50. If Danny is allowed to move at all to prevent a square hit, then no way.

Pretty par for the course for a mid-tier meta. Danny will tank that all day. Or have you. It read much iron fist?

Pete "affecting" class 100s is either overselling it or PIS and you know it. At his peak, Pete is in the class 15-20 range. Next you're going to remind me that he punched out firelord...

So you say. I say you're wrong.

Incorrect. While its true that a large speed advantage should allow you to outperform a more skilled opponent, the skilled opponent makes moves with less thought, less wasted motion and more precision. Thus, an untrained man with a slight speed advantage will still get owned by a judo master. And like you admit, Pete's speed is only slightly better.

The rest of your post was mind of a rant that didn't actually refute my point. I know how the SS works (by the way, it's "warn" with an "a"😉. But even with the SS Pete still in has slightly better feats than Danny at best. It could be argued that they're equal. So simply saying that its a huge advantage isn't supported by the evidence.

not in a fight? dude are you now trying to tell me that no one can knock out iron fist because he moves with the punch as you claim? wow iron fist is just undefeated no one can knock him out and no one can take his iron fist punch he is a skyfather level give him a cape

and now seriously lets go with your claim that he rolls with the punch and bla bla bla, if we already agree that spider man is indeed faster than him that means he WILL tag him fully because he is faster and that means his punch will be faster than danny reaction time which means by the time iron fist will react spidy will already land the clean shot, and now to adress this thing as overall thats the biggest bullshit i have ever heard, in some fights he rolls with the punch just as in more fights spidy just avoid punches because of the spider sense so in that case i claim iron fist will never land a clean hit on spidy because of his spider sense and superior speed which actually makes much more sense than your claim

so now danny can tank spider man hits all day long? spider man while serious one shotted and busted open iron mans armor with a punch and i dont have to start explaining to you how durable that thing is, what feats of durability can be played for iron fist? if spider man punch danny no holding back to the head he is knocked out, geez iron fist is shang chi only thing is he can manipulate his chi to higher degree as far as output power, as far as tanking power i dont see iron fist manipulating his chi to such higher degrees thats bullshit

oh so now you are calling pete punching power bullshit because he is class 20 25? ok lets play this game and what class is iron fist in his best day? any strength feats to suggest he is even a super human? strength doesnt mean all, yeah yeah he can chi amp himself and spider man while pissed as was clearly showed on pannel can reach much higher results with his hits than his lifting, and even if we go by lifting feats spider man toying with tanks , holding full buildings, throwing armored trucks like toys is more than 25 ton range, again as was showed to us on panel and by feats when spider man sligthly more serious he manage to bust some serious shit with his hits and its not all about how much he can lift

so now you are calling spidy untrained? dude where did you come from?i am not arguing spider man can match iron fist as far as skills alone but to say pete is untrained and doesnt know how to fight properly is retarded, pete fought thousands of fights and now he knows kung fu to some degree so to try and present it as someone with fighting skills vs someone who doesnt know shit about fighting and only got speed advantage is false and incorrect to the highest degrees, spider man got the speed reflex spider sense and combat knowledge all that combined trumps iron fist skills by a mile , iron fist will get tagged and taken out because of that fact

if you repeat and say their feats are equel wont make it true, first you say their speed feats are almost equel then you come and say his speed feats plus the spider sense are equel? that already doesnt make any sense at all, show me feats of iron fist speedblitzing super human opponents with super human speed and avoid them with easy and then we talk

you know what you wana play the straw game? fine i am in for it, spider man took multiple punches from savage hulk several times, prove that the iron fist hits harder than savage hulk

Originally posted by red sabre
not in a fight? dude are you now trying to tell me that no one can knock out iron fist because he moves with the punch as you claim? wow iron fist is just undefeated no one can knock him out and no one can take his iron fist punch he is a skyfather level give him a cape

and now seriously lets go with your claim that he rolls with the punch and bla bla bla, if we already agree that spider man is indeed faster than him that means he WILL tag him fully because he is faster and that means his punch will be faster than danny reaction time which means by the time iron fist will react spidy will already land the clean shot, and now to adress this thing as overall thats the biggest bullshit i have ever heard, in some fights he rolls with the punch just as in more fights spidy just avoid punches because of the spider sense so in that case i claim iron fist will never land a clean hit on spidy because of his spider sense and superior speed which actually makes much more sense than your claim

so now danny can tank spider man hits all day long? spider man while serious one shotted and busted open iron mans armor with a punch and i dont have to start explaining to you how durable that thing is, what feats of durability can be played for iron fist? if spider man punch danny no holding back to the head he is knocked out, geez iron fist is shang chi only thing is he can manipulate his chi to higher degree as far as output power, as far as tanking power i dont see iron fist manipulating his chi to such higher degrees thats bullshit

oh so now you are calling pete punching power bullshit because he is class 20 25? ok lets play this game and what class is iron fist in his best day? any strength feats to suggest he is even a super human? strength doesnt mean all, yeah yeah he can chi amp himself and spider man while pissed as was clearly showed on pannel can reach much higher results with his hits than his lifting, and even if we go by lifting feats spider man toying with tanks , holding full buildings, throwing armored trucks like toys is more than 25 ton range, again as was showed to us on panel and by feats when spider man sligthly more serious he manage to bust some serious shit with his hits and its not all about how much he can lift

so now you are calling spidy untrained? dude where did you come from?i am not arguing spider man can match iron fist as far as skills alone but to say pete is untrained and doesnt know how to fight properly is retarded, pete fought thousands of fights and now he knows kung fu to some degree so to try and present it as someone with fighting skills vs someone who doesnt know shit about fighting and only got speed advantage is false and incorrect to the highest degrees, spider man got the speed reflex spider sense and combat knowledge all that combined trumps iron fist skills by a mile , iron fist will get tagged and taken out because of that fact

if you repeat and say their feats are equel wont make it true, first you say their speed feats are almost equel then you come and say his speed feats plus the spider sense are equel? that already doesnt make any sense at all, show me feats of iron fist speedblitzing super human opponents with super human speed and avoid them with easy and then we talk

dude you dont know shit about iron fist let me educate you, first of all that guys remark is very valid , even if spider man is slightly faster than danny he still should be able to react to his punches, your statement of spider man hitting iron fist before he can react would be valid if spider man was so fast compared to iron fist to the point he would be frozen by the time spider man punch him which isnt the case, even if someone faster than you tags you , you still are able to move with the punch or roll with it as was stated in this thread, unless you believe spider man is so fast for danny to the point danny will be frozen by the time the punch lands

iron fist tanked punches from guys who are equel to spider man in strength or even stronger than him, its a well known fact that by chi amping himself iron fist can reach great degrees of durability, guys like luke cage couldnt knock him out and even got one shotted by him, he survived hits from far stronger guys than spider man, and if you believe there is something special that amp spider man punches aside of his strength then please provide us with the evidence

iron fist got the chi to amp his punches yes and as far as feats show us he is one shotting guys spider man never would or could, destroying a train and hellicarier is more then enough to take spider man because as we know by comics many guys took him out with inferior punching power than this, explosions took him out, scorpion and lizard took him out of course not with a single strike but still you cant compare the power of their hits and iron fist he is far superior in punching power

well perhaps he did a mistake by calling spider man untrained however you are doing to same, you are trying to present it as a guy with only skills and nothing but skills vs someone who is faster and has spider sense but thats not the case, iron fist also has speed either on par with spider man or slightly inferior and he also got the reflex to match spidy so while spidy got spider sense iron fist got skills which allow him to counter and predict opponent moves before they make them which is also some sort of spider sense

iron fist by speed feats was able to speedblitz trained martial artists and react to things such as bullets and machine gun fire all day long, perhaps spidy is indeed faster than iron fist but not the way you are trying to present it and it wont be such a big of difference.

i think i see your problem red sabre you think that danny is a street and therefor he must be treated as one, danny is on a whole different league and can easily hang with top dogs via skills and chi amp, people dont have problem with DC Comics Karate kid being in such incredible levels just by training but suddenly you got a problem with iron fist?

Originally posted by red sabre
you know what you wana play the straw game? fine i am in for it, spider man took multiple punches from savage hulk several times, prove that the iron fist hits harder than savage hulk

the fact 95% of the times he was taken out it was by people who are inferior to hulk in punching power i think its safe to say it doesnt take a hulk punch to take him out

Originally posted by red sabre
dude you dont know shit about iron fist let me educate you, first of all that guys remark is very valid , even if spider man is slightly faster than danny he still should be able to react to his punches, your statement of spider man hitting iron fist before he can react would be valid if spider man was so fast compared to iron fist to the point he would be frozen by the time spider man punch him which isnt the case, even if someone faster than you tags you , you still are able to move with the punch or roll with it as was stated in this thread, unless you believe spider man is so fast for danny to the point danny will be frozen by the time the punch lands

iron fist tanked punches from guys who are equel to spider man in strength or even stronger than him, its a well known fact that by chi amping himself iron fist can reach great degrees of durability, guys like luke cage couldnt knock him out and even got one shotted by him, he survived hits from far stronger guys than spider man, and if you believe there is something special that amp spider man punches aside of his strength then please provide us with the evidence

iron fist got the chi to amp his punches yes and as far as feats show us he is one shotting guys spider man never would or could, destroying a train and hellicarier is more then enough to take spider man because as we know by comics many guys took him out with inferior punching power than this, explosions took him out, scorpion and lizard took him out of course not with a single strike but still you cant compare the power of their hits and iron fist he is far superior in punching power

well perhaps he did a mistake by calling spider man untrained however you are doing to same, you are trying to present it as a guy with only skills and nothing but skills vs someone who is faster and has spider sense but thats not the case, iron fist also has speed either on par with spider man or slightly inferior and he also got the reflex to match spidy so while spidy got spider sense iron fist got skills which allow him to counter and predict opponent moves before they make them which is also some sort of spider sense

iron fist by speed feats was able to speedblitz trained martial artists and react to things such as bullets and machine gun fire all day long, perhaps spidy is indeed faster than iron fist but not the way you are trying to present it and it wont be such a big of difference.

i think i see your problem red sabre you think that danny is a street and therefor he must be treated as one, danny is on a whole different league and can easily hang with top dogs via skills and chi amp, people dont have problem with DC Comics Karate kid being in such incredible levels just by training but suddenly you got a problem with iron fist?

so now you want a piece of me red sabre? ok lets go for it

i never said iron fist will be frozen to spidy however what i did say was said and backed up by feats which shows us spider man is faster and that means by the time he lands a hit iron fist will take the hit, thats what being faster is all about, when someone is frozen to you thats not a being faster case already thats just a speedblitz, do i think spider man can speed blitz iron fist? no he cant, but i do believe he is faster to the point he punch iron fist fast enough for at least 1 hit to land and it should be such a big deal based on his showings completely speedblitzing guys with actual super human speed

iron fist also was taken out effected and stalemeted by guys far weaker than class 100 bricks or spider man, streets easily effected him with their strikes so yuo see your claim works both ways my friend, most of the times we see spider man holding back when punching so his punches are not a good indication, however we got few feats of him not holding back and busting iron man and hurting class 100 bricks along with breaking concrete walls like nothing, if we colculate the overall iron fist durability showing we will find out that more than not he is effected and even taken out by street levelers

as i said this is not a question of who is punching harder because all that matters is the fact spider man can take iron fist out as much as the other way around, so now you bring spider man being taken out by his foes? lets count all the times he fought and wasnt taken out by thing, namor, hulk, juggernaut , colossus, atc atc atc, and as far as i know his foes such as lizard or scorpion didnt really knock him out but always landed multiple hits on him and escaped , please provide the scans of them knocking him out, he took a hell punishment from rhino who destroys buildings with his hits with no trouble and yet he was able to take multiple hits by rhino and keep fighting like he was his equel

i didnt say that iron fist is only skilled, however spider man outmatch him in speed agility and got spider sense and some kung fu training so yeah its safe to give all those atributes to spider man and put it as his plus sides, his spider sense combined with his speed allows him to react at incredible speeds that supress even guys like miss marvel and speed demon, nothing iron fist can really supress

speedblitzing canon fodder ninjas and such cant compare to spider man blitzing super humans my friend ( not really my friend get lost)

you think you are some kind of physchologist? you see problems? dude i never said i have a problem with iron fist being on such high levels as long as its backed up by feats, his feats are good but not that good so start proving your points by feats

Originally posted by red sabre
the fact 95% of the times he was taken out it was by people who are inferior to hulk in punching power i think its safe to say it doesnt take a hulk punch to take him out

95%? did you colculated all his fights with guys such as rhino, iron man, thing, hulk, namor , juggernaut, atc atc? did you also colculate the fact even if some streets bested him they didnt knock him out? care to show me those 95% streets knocking him out?

dude i got to go to the gym right now for my training i will deal with you when i get back

yeah me too i also have to go to the gym i bet i can lift more than you can