A jacked up viking god with a big hammer. What's not to like?
I like both, but for different reasons. The thing is, Joe Casey never got what made Superman awesome.. Even Busiek, as good a writer as he is, never got it. Garth Ennis writing Superman, or Grant Morrison with his All Star series, they get it.. He's an icon and an inspiration, not an ass kicker.
Thor, he's the ass kicker. He's a friggan viking god, for crying out loud.. Kicking ass is what vikings do!
Originally posted by Spire
In your opinion, is Superman going to use high end speed and rain down punches in this thread?
He'll charge a lot, and swing a lot, but I don't see him going all Ending Battle on him.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. Supeman doesn't have to use his speed creatively. He will use it instinctively though, which puts him at a large advantage against Thor.
Plus Thor's creativity goes out the window too in this fight. He would be mad and only thinking about bashing Superman for the most part.2. There are different levels of speeds, all of which are invisible to human eyes (bullets for example). Thor has never shown the level of speed against a character using Superman level speed on him in an up close situation. 100% of the time in comics when a character using Superman level speed (actually below IMO) on Thor then Thor gets either embarrassed or simply loses the upper hand. Now since Thor has no showings to contradict these then we can't count these as low showings.
To underestimate Thor's speed is to not know of some of his feats or ignore them. Well Rage, ODG, etc. have been posting Thor's feats for days (even years). Even in his respect thread there is nothing. Nothing to show that Thor is capable of dealing with Superman level speed in an up close situation (the fight will most likely get up close here). Probably you seen something (a feat) that makes you think we are underestimating Thor's speed?
1. Thor doesn't rely on his intelligence as much as Superman does, though. "Instinctive speed" will go out the window with how angry Superman is, imo.
2. I've rarely read any solo Thor books, and I know that's not true. Secondly, Superman isn't going to be using his speed that well in this thread per the op.
Then there's Thor's energy attacks to contend with.
Originally posted by cdtm
I don't want to argue on the side of what's his face, but in terms of speed, the big problem with Thor is we have to pick go over all of his feats with a microscope to get an idea that he even has it apart from his hammer..Unlike, say, Surfer, who's faster than light speed is a big part of his character (A herald wouldn't be much use to Big G if they couldn't travel faster than light..)
I know Thor does have enhanced reaction feats, as does Hulk, Doomsday, Lobo, and many other characters.. But with them, we have to either give them the benefit of the doubt or not. With Superman, it's simply clearly established that he has it. Maybe not to light speed levels, but to "everyone that's not Flash or on his speed level is a statue" levels, no question..
Honestly, that's exactly how I feel. Thor is more a person that has "reactionary" speed. He isn't as fast as Superman, and in any proper fight, I would rate Superman's speed as being a definite asset. Just not in this situation.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Thor is more a person that has "reactionary" speed. He isn't as fast as Superman, and in any proper fight, I would rate Superman's speed as being a definite asset.
👆
Yes he has reactioanary speed which is why we its hard to find actual speed feats of his, but when pit against speedsters like Surfer and Gladiator, he reacts just fine, and has done so too consistently to call PIS.
He also has FTL travelling speed and movements with the aid of Mjolnir.
But in any case in a normal fight Speed will be a definitive advantage to Superman. Whilst Mjolnir and Thor's energy based attacks would be a definitive advantage to Thor.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes he has reactioanary speed which is why we its hard to find actual speed feats of his, but when pit against speedsters like Surfer and Gladiator, he reacts just fine, and has done so too consistently to call PIS.
Do you want to know how a brawl between Thor and Gladiator / Silver Surfer / Superman / Sentry would look like?
All of these characters would hit him at least 10 times before he could even react to it, so him blocking / dodging it, would be rather laughable.
Do you want to know how a brawl between Hulk and Gladiator / Silver Surfer / Superman / Sentry would look like?
All of these characters would hit him at least 10 times before he could even react to it, so him blocking / dodging it, would be rather laughable.
Do you want to know how a brawl between Flash and Gladiator / Silver Surfer / Sentry / Superman would look like?
All of these characters would get hit by him at least 10 times before they could even react to it, so they blocking / doging it, would be rather laughable.
It's the way how the comic books are written for the sake of the entertainment.
You could argue that Thor has some speed showings, when it comes to terms of combat, but at the same time super speed is not a part of his power set and that applies for basically every single god whose super-god-power is not super speed. Hercules is not super fast, Ares is not super fast, Loki is not super fast and Thor isn't super fast as well. He may be different than them all, but in the end, there is no super speed in his power set.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Do you want to know how a brawl between Thor and Gladiator / Silver Surfer / Superman / Sentry would look like?
All of these characters would hit him at least 10 times before he could even react to it, so him blocking / dodging it, would be rather laughable.Do you want to know how a brawl between Hulk and Gladiator / Silver Surfer / Superman / Sentry would look like?
All of these characters would hit him at least 10 times before he could even react to it, so him blocking / dodging it, would be rather laughable.Do you want to know how a brawl between Flash and Gladiator / Silver Surfer / Sentry / Superman would look like?
All of these characters would get hit by him at least 10 times before they could even react to it, so they blocking / doging it, would be rather laughable.It's the way how the comic books are written for the sake of the entertainment.
You could argue that Thor has some speed showings, when it comes to terms of combat, but at the same time super speed is not a part of his power set and that applies for basically every single god whose super-god-power is not super speed. Hercules is not super fast, Ares is not super fast, Loki is not super fast and Thor isn't super fast as well. He may be different than them all, but in the end, there is no super speed in his power set.
Define Super speed for me.. Thor has Flown around at FTL speeds.. Thor has reacted in the microseconds, Thor can spin Mjolnir aound FTL, he can spin himself around FTL. He can Throw Mjolnir at FTL speeds (Mjolnir can home in on his opponent and Thor can even hang on while this is done). Thor constantly blocks Lightspeed attacks.
These are all canon feats and part of his powerset. And you wnt see Spiderman. Wolverine or Batman doing any of these super fast feats anytime soon.
But still I say Superman has a definite speed adbantage over Thor which will be his biggest asset in a fight against Thor.
However Thor also has advantages over Superman in terms of Powerful and magical based Omni directional Energy attacks.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Define Super speed for me.. Thor has Flown around at FTL speeds.. Thor has reacted in the microseconds, Thor can spin Mjolnir aound FTL, he can spin himself around FTL. He can Throw Mjolnir at FTL speeds (Mjolnir can home in on his opponent and Thor can even hang on while this is done). Thor constantly blocks Lightspeed attacks.These are all canon feats and part of his powerset. And you wnt see Spiderman. Wolverine or Batman doing any of these super fast feats anytime soon.
But still I say Superman has a definite speed adbantage over Thor which will be his biggest asset in a fight against Thor.
However Thor also has advantages over Superman in terms of Powerful and magical based Omni directional Energy attacks.
I consider Spider-Man as a great bullet timer. Even Wolverine is able to dodge bullets. I don't see Thor something like that doing on a regular basis.
Masterson Thor got overwhelmed by Spider-Man when he was using his speed. He was not able to fight back propperly.
Masterson Thor also said that Spider-Man would be chanceless against the Absorbing Man, yet Absorbing Man was also not able to tag Spider-Man.
During the Siege Thor was not able to react to Sentry's speed blitz in the midair. When Sentry took off to take down Asgard, Thor started to raise his hand to throw Mjolnir, yet Sentry was already finished bullrushing through Asgard and took the entire city down.
Thor was not able to act, since he was simply way too slow.
No one doubts that Thor can fly at the speeds of light, but that only happens thanks to Mjolnir. Thor can probably also run very, very fast thanks to his strenght, just like the Hulk, but he is not a super speedster, who takes off instantly and can also fight at such speed velocities.
There were one or two instances during the 60ties, where he was moving too fast for the human eye to propperly see him, when he was repairing something, but something like that basically never happened again, after that.
These times are over and Thor is portrayed as a slow, hammer-wielding brawler.
Hell, even in Marvel VS Capcom 3 he is one of the slowest characters, who has the damage output, but lacks the speed.
Originally posted by Digi
Thor can also absorb energy that isn't directly hitting Mjolnir. Though I think he needs to be holding Mjolnir to channel it through himself into the hammer. Still, puts a damper on heat vision.
Actually, no, he doesn't.
Originally posted by EnzeruMasterson Thor got overwhelmed by Spider-Man when he was using his speed. He was not able to fight back propperly.
And yet Masterson Thor was also able to fight a speeding Gladiator. Spiderman is Spiderman. He has crazy wins against people he should not be even hanging with.. Juggernaut and Firelord come to mind.
Originally posted by Enzeru
No one doubts that Thor can fly at the speeds of light, but that only happens thanks to Mjolnir.
I never denied this. He can also swing Mjolnir around FTL, and even spin himself around FTL with the aid of Mjolnir.
The point is he has Mjolnir so can move at very fast speeds, he just needs to react. And he's been shown many times to have godly reflexes to react to such speedsters as the Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Hyperion. He's done it too many times to call PIS. The instances you are pointing out when he was unable to react are few and far between. Heck its not like Superman's never been hit.
But to be honest, Superman will still be many times faster and so its really Thor's omni-directional energy blasts and fast flight that will save him from Superman's speed.
Originally posted by Enzeru
There were one or two instances during the 60ties, where he was moving too fast for the human eye to propperly see him, when he was repairing something, but something like that basically never happened again, after that.
It was actually a few times he was said to be moving at blinding speeds. But yeah without Mjolnir I agree it will be nothing super-sonic or close to light speed.
Originally posted by Digi
Thor can also absorb energy that isn't directly hitting Mjolnir. Though I think he needs to be holding Mjolnir to channel it through himself into the hammer. Still, puts a damper on heat vision.
Yep which is why I say Speed is Superman's main advantage he has over Thor. So it is one he will have to use effectively to win against Thor, and its the thing Thor will have to counter if he's to come out on top.
Originally posted by abhilegendYour e-stalking is creepy, to say the least, sock.
^I found it in your thread history Mr. Onesmartgohttp://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=642591.
Btw Learn how to properly debate first, ok. Your spamming and trolling is astounding to say at the least.
Originally posted by abhilegendThe fact that you stalked and researched my 5 year old threads by your own admission to see "what I'm about" and never looked at my Revamped Thor Respect Thread which is clearly ordered and labeled for the lightspeed reflex feats you're demanding be shown reveals just how trollish you are.
This is superman vs thor, you said thor has lightspeed reflexes and I demanded scans. What the heck am I supposed to do otherwise, just accept it because you type a long ass post.
Originally posted by abhilegendIrony. Good job moving the goalposts, i.e, discussing your out-of-context and clearly incorrect assertions to discussing off-topic red herrings and making demands that are nonsensical considering your own admitted behavior into reading up on others.
^^For the love of god and my brain cells, just stop.
Thor wins. Unless you decide not to take Thor's feats at face value and take only Superman's feats at face value. Which you're free to do. Hypocrite.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your e-stalking is creepy, to say the least, sock. The fact that you stalked and researched my 5 year old threads by your own admission to see "what I'm about" and never looked at my Revamped Thor Respect Thread which is clearly ordered and labeled for the lightspeed reflex feats you're demanding be shown reveals just how trollish you are. Irony. Good job moving the goalposts, i.e, discussing your out-of-context and clearly incorrect assertions to discussing off-topic red herrings and making demands that are nonsensical considering your own admitted behavior into reading up on others.Thor wins. Unless you decide not to take Thor's feats at face value and take only Superman's feats at face value. Which you're free to do. Hypocrite.
^ I'm amused you can research my vs thread creations that are completely off-topic and from 5 years ago to "prepare yourself" for debating me...
... and completely ignore a Revamped Thor Respect Thread that has the lightspeed feats you were looking for clearly labeled on the very first page of said respect thread.
Anyway, go ahead and feign ignorance that you still can't find them. At this point, you're either willfully ignorant and a troll or that retarded. Choose.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Consider it very much on, sir.
You mean this
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]III. SUPERSPEEDWhile character talk can be cheap, Thor's speed has always been astonishing to his opponents. The original Black Knight shoots bolas from his lance that are literally surrounding Thor, but because of his speed, Thor knocks the lance away and evades capture. Black Knight exclaims, "I've never seen such speed... such power!!" From Avengers #6:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed05Avengers006.jpgHere, Hela only has to touch Thor in order to ensnare his soul in 1v1 combat, but is unable to do so because of his speed, "His speed, his anger, are beyond comprehension!" From Thor #354:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSpeed03354.jpgHere, while fending off two Herald-level foes, Adam Warlock likens his ability to catch his staff mid-swing and his combat speed to that of lightning, "He moves like the lightning he commands, much quicker than I remember." From Infinity Watch #23:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed20InfinityWatch23.jpgBut he has more than just subjective exclamations (no matter how reliable the speaker). What everyone really cares about are the more objective and reliable speed feats. One reliable type of speed feat is where the character moves so fast that they become a blur of motion or move too fast to be seen. Here, Thor fights Heimdall and swings his hammer down on him at speeds "moving too swiftly for the eye to follow," even too fast for Heimdall in Journey Into Mystery #125:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed06JIM125.jpgLikewise here, Thor digs a trench in a blur of motion that is "almost too fast for the human eye to follow." From Marvel Team-Up #26:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed10MarvelTeam-Up26.jpgAnd here, while helping rebuild Asgard, Thor hammers down repeatedly on a pillar and "becomes a blur of motion" in Thor #267:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed14267.jpgThor's combat reflex speed feats are impressive in their own right. Here, Thor reacts to a knife being swung down only inches from his face with a mighty heave in Thor #218:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed11218.jpgThor reacts and swats away arrows that are only a few feet away from hitting him from behind in Thor vol. 2 #27:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed23v207.jpgHere, Thor is about to have his face smashed by a cursed Mjolnir which is zooming back to him, but he moves swiftly enough on reaction to dodge it in Thor vol. 2 #27:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed25.jpgThor reacts to Wrecker swinging his mystic crowbar onto Thor's head from behind. Literally only inches away, Thor moves so swiftly once again, he snatches the crowbar with his hand in Thor vol. 2 #29:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed27v229.jpgAnd it looks like current Thor hasn't lost that bare-handed touch as he catches Bor's axe inches from his face in Thor #600:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed29600.jpgHe's also fended off an ambush by Wolverine who was right on top of him in Wolverine vs Thor #2:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed30WolverinevsThor2.jpgAnother common way to measure those is to see how well Thor does against speedsters. Here, Thor builds a trench around crazed citizens and Avengers, including a zooming Quicksilver in Avengers #98:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed09Avengers098.jpgHere, Thor punks the Newman speedster, Juvan, who was created by the High Evolutionary, using nothing but his bare hands in Thor #447:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed17447.jpgHere, Thor catches another High Evolutionary creation who possesses superspeed, the godling, Zefra in Thor #475:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed21475.jpgAnd Thor has punked the superspeedster, Hermes, the literal Greek God of Speed, not just once, but twice in Avengers #281 and Thor vol. 2 #27:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed16Avengers281.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed24.jpgBut even superspeedsters can job and it's difficult to quantify exactly how fast they are going in each instance. But Thor does have directly measurable superspeed feats. Here, he literally snatches a fired tank shell out of mid-air with his bare hand in Journey Into Mystery #93:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed02JIM93.jpgAnd similarly snatches a fired missile with his bare hand in Marvel Team-Up #148:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed15b-MarvelTeamup148.jpgHere, we see Thor flying outside a window and when Jane Foster gets his attention, Thor manages to intercept Cobra's poison dart within a split-second. The dart is fired before he even is inside the room, just to give you the proper frame of reference to understand the speed and reflexes necessary in Journey Into Mystery #98:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed03JIM98.jpgHere, in the space of one and one-fifth seconds, Thor dives out of the sky, smashes Mjolnir down and causes a shockwave to divert a runaway truck from killing a young boy ACROSS the city in Journey Into Mystery #108:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed04JIM108.jpgHere, Thor's able to swat away a torrent of flying bricks that used to be half a building, not allowing any of them to pass through in the space of milliseconds. To give you a reference as to how fast he's swinging his arms back and forth, check out panels three and four. Notice how far a speedblitzing Gladiator advances between Thor's swings! From Thor vol. 2 #34:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed28v234.jpgHere, in the space of micro-seconds before a zooming cursed Mjolnir will strike Thor from behind, Thor lays a haymaker onto an Enchanter and spins around in time to snatch Mjolnir in mid-air, from Thor #144:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed08144.jpgNow we all know Thor has stopped bullets and energy beams by spinning Mjolnir around. And it's been argued that he has to do that because he's not fast enough to block them traditionally with Mjolnir or bat them away. After all, he'd require faster than bullet ("FTB"😉 and faster than light ("FTL"😉 combat speed reflexes to do so. However, these next scans should dispel ANY doubt whether he does possess FTB or FTL combat speed reflexes since he deflects bullets and energy blasts by moving or swinging Mjolnir once rather than by spinning Mjolnir. Here, with FTB speed, he deflects two bullets with a single swing way back in Journey Into Mystery #100:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed03aJIM100.jpgHere, he blocks a single bullet with the head of Mjolnir before whirling it to create a field in Thor #246:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed13246.jpgAs for FTL reactions that can be measured in nanoseconds (light travels one foot per nanosecond), he's swung and swatted away Blastaar's energy blasts in Thor #270:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed15270.jpgFar from a one-off FTL feat, he does the same to Mole Man's energy blaster shot in Marvel Two-In-One #96:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed15aMarvelTwo-In-One96.jpgHere, Enchantress shoots a blast at Captain America and Thor reacts with FTL speed to cut off the energy blast in mid-flight, from Marvel Comics Presents #44:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed17bMCP44.jpgPhoenix shoots a telepathic blast at a groggy Thor at the moment Thor's arms are at his side. AFTER the shot is fired and already traveling at him, Thor raises his arms and reflects it back with Mjolnir. Telepathy being instantaneous traditionally (as noted in the narration), we can assume for the sake of argument that it was only traveling at light-speed, making this another FTL feat, from Excalibur #428:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed18428.jpgHe bats away a possessed Iron Man's repulsor rays in Avengers vol. 3 #3:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed22Avengersv303.jpgAnd again bats away ray blasts in a training session in Avengers vol. 3 #23:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed26Avengersv323.jpg [/B]
Where's FTL reflexes? If you think that catching a speedster or blocking energy rays means FTL reflexes, lulz at you.
