Originally posted by Igniz
What I don't get about the book of limbo, is that it was claimed having infinite pages.This is what's bothering me.How did Ultraman read the end of the book if it has infinite pages 😕 ?Just asking by the way.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That was a hyperbole jake, otherwise according to Bekka (orion's wife) a fight between darkseid and superman rocked the entire solar system. Superman has withstood a planet's weight according to Ray Palmer in AOS 618. World engine is trumped by Superman lifting infinity, twice. Closing dimensional doorway with Hercules is trumped by Superman punching out from inside his own death (Superman: where is thy sting) or breaking entire time-space by punching Kal-L. Lifting asgard with bill is trumped by Superman pushing a ship which was towing both earth and moon through hyperspace for appoxrimately 10 minutes (Superman: earth stealers). Knocking out earth from it's orbit with hercules, superman sent earth out of it's orbit by just free-falling from upper atmosphere while nearly dead. Superman IS stronger than Thor, just I said previously. Point me to the scan where Thor took a black hole in his palm and I may re-consider my stance.
Please remember the context when you bring up feats.
^What context Pr? Nobody has yet pointed me to the scan where it was stated that breaking reality with Kal-L was a side-effect of Alex messing with time and space while it was directly stated on-panel that "reality breaks around our fists". Speculating is trumped by on-panel showings unless it's hyperbole. In earth stealers he HOPED that the weight of earth and moon was nullified, anyway a ship which can tow both earth and moon is no feather. Oh and I forgot about Maggedon, my bad.
Originally posted by abhilegend
^What context Pr? Nobody has yet pointed me to the scan where it was stated that breaking reality with Kal-L was a side-effect of Alex messing with time and space while it was directly stated on-panel that "reality breaks around our fists". Speculating is trumped by on-panel showings unless it's hyperbole. In earth stealers he HOPED that the weight of earth and moon was nullified, anyway a ship which can tow both earth and moon is no feather. Oh and I forgot about Maggedon, my bad.
It was stated when it was made known that Alex was messing with all reality in the first place. You can't presume that it just stopped for those two.
I mean, yeah, it's an impressive feat, but still.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Okay?Being from different companies doesn't mean anything. Anyone with common sense who's read plenty of Thor and Superman comics alike knows that in a fight, barring politics or any other kind of excuses, it's going to be close. Feats suggest that much, writer opinions, etc.
My purpose? The way I view Thor and Superman in the general sense is based off of what the comics show me. I don't have an agenda to prove nor am I "Marvel-lite" trying to save the company money...which is probably one of the more...interesting claims I've heard about me outside of being a secret Thanos fanboy. Personally, it feels to me that you skim through respect threads for feats and grossly extrapolate and throw out arbitrary numbers that don't have any semblance at all to the comics themselves, specifically when it comes to speed. *shrug*
No, I imagine each character with their A game fighting in this fight. IMO, Speed trumps all. Remember I said that if Thor was as fast as Superman then he would win a very high majority (if not all). I could care less who is stronger since this fight won't even come to that. Both characters are capable of hurting the other almost equally with their blows. Thor may hurt Superman more if he hit him with a Godblast or something though.
Now, there is a theory to view the fight as it would occur in a comic. If that was the case then I agree 100% with you that the characters are evenly matched and could go either way.
But I'm not with that theory. I'm with the theory of how the fight would really go if the two actually existed and they fought at their best as shown before but in character. To me Thor is a lot more versatile than Superman but slower. Superman is much more simpler but faster.
If you can do 1000 different things and I can do only 3 things, but instinctively well, then it would seem as if I'm the more versatile one than you since you would have to spend precious time to think about which of the 1000 things you should do. I would have an overwhelming advantage.
Also these characters are bloodlusted which favors Superman. In a bloodlusted state a character would be mostly thinking bash hard and bash fast. Thor would not be thinking of all of his exotic powers that he rarely uses (like omnidirectional blasts). Thor would be mad as hell and wanting to bash the hell out of Superman with his hammer. This is his character when he is mad. The problem is that this type of fight favors Superman since he is faster and more maneuverable.
In a normal fight, Superman's speed advantage goes down since he may not use it immediately or at his best right away. He may play around with Thor seeing what he got. Thor might wind up putting a hurting on Superman with no turnaround if Thor decides to not relent. But Thor does relent at times. If so then Superman would get more serious and pour on the speed. If not then Superman loses then and there.
So in a normal fight, Thor would win if he doesn't relent when he has the upper hand. But Superman would win if Thor does relent.
In a bloodlusted fight, Superman wins the majority. Is that fair?
Originally posted by h1a8
No, I imagine each character with their A game fighting in this fight. IMO, Speed trumps all. Remember I said that if Thor was as fast as Superman then he would win a very high majority (if not all). I could care less who is stronger since this fight won't even come to that. Both characters are capable of hurting the other almost equally with their blows. Thor may hurt Superman more if he hit him with a Godblast or something though.Now, there is a theory to view the fight as it would occur in a comic. If that was the case then I agree 100% with you that the characters are evenly matched and could go either way.
But I'm not with that theory. I'm with the theory of how the fight would really go if the two actually existed and they fought at their best as shown before but in character. To me Thor is a lot more versatile than Superman but slower. Superman is much more simpler but faster.
If you can do 1000 different things and I can do only 3 things, but instinctively well, then it would seem as if I'm the more versatile one than you since you would have to spend precious time to think about which of the 1000 things you should do. I would have an overwhelming advantage.
Also these characters are bloodlusted which favors Superman. In a bloodlusted state a character would be mostly thinking bash hard and bash fast. Thor would not be thinking of all of his exotic powers that he rarely uses (like omnidirectional blasts). Thor would be mad as hell and wanting to bash the hell out of Superman with his hammer. This is his character when he is mad. The problem is that this type of fight favors Superman since he is faster and more maneuverable.
In a normal fight, Superman's speed advantage goes down since he may not use it immediately or at his best right away. He may play around with Thor seeing what he got. Thor might wind up putting a hurting on Superman with no turnaround if Thor decides to not relent. But Thor does relent at times. If so then Superman would get more serious and pour on the speed. If not then Superman loses then and there.
So in a normal fight, Thor would win if he doesn't relent when he has the upper hand. But Superman would win if Thor does relent.
In a bloodlusted fight, Superman wins the majority. Is that fair?
Originally posted by h1a8
No, I imagine each character with their A game fighting in this fight. IMO, Speed trumps all. Remember I said that if Thor was as fast as Superman then he would win a very high majority (if not all). I could care less who is stronger since this fight won't even come to that. Both characters are capable of hurting the other almost equally with their blows. Thor may hurt Superman more if he hit him with a Godblast or something though.Now, there is a theory to view the fight as it would occur in a comic. If that was the case then I agree 100% with you that the characters are evenly matched and could go either way.
But I'm not with that theory. I'm with the theory of how the fight would really go if the two actually existed and they fought at their best as shown before but in character. To me Thor is a lot more versatile than Superman but slower. Superman is much more simpler but faster.
If you can do 1000 different things and I can do only 3 things, but instinctively well, then it would seem as if I'm the more versatile one than you since you would have to spend precious time to think about which of the 1000 things you should do. I would have an overwhelming advantage.
Also these characters are bloodlusted which favors Superman. In a bloodlusted state a character would be mostly thinking bash hard and bash fast. Thor would not be thinking of all of his exotic powers that he rarely uses (like omnidirectional blasts). Thor would be mad as hell and wanting to bash the hell out of Superman with his hammer. This is his character when he is mad. The problem is that this type of fight favors Superman since he is faster and more maneuverable.
In a normal fight, Superman's speed advantage goes down since he may not use it immediately or at his best right away. He may play around with Thor seeing what he got. Thor might wind up putting a hurting on Superman with no turnaround if Thor decides to not relent. But Thor does relent at times. If so then Superman would get more serious and pour on the speed. If not then Superman loses then and there.
So in a normal fight, Thor would win if he doesn't relent when he has the upper hand. But Superman would win if Thor does relent.
In a bloodlusted fight, Superman wins the majority. Is that fair?
1. Superman is insanely angry, so isn't going to be using his speed creatively.
2. You're massively underrating Thor's speed, and the fact that he can do wide angle/omni-directional blasts.
If you were talking about characters other than Superman and Thor I might agree with you; it just doesn't apply in this case.
Originally posted by -Pr-
1. Superman is insanely angry, so isn't going to be using his speed creatively.
2. You're massively underrating Thor's speed, and the fact that he can do wide angle/omni-directional blasts.If you were talking about characters other than Superman and Thor I might agree with you; it just doesn't apply in this case.
Originally posted by abhilegend
You are under-estimating Kal's mental fortitude pr. No showing of him save Sacrifice (where he was unusually reckless without max's mind controll like when he was choking a guy in daily planet who he initially saw as brainiac but continue to choke him even when he saw him clearly) indicates that he would just lose his keen tactical mind. Ex: in OWAW he wasn't any less effective when he thought a probe killed his parents, when manchestar black in ending battle looked in superman's mind, kal first tried to use lobotomizing black by the hv-through-eye trick etc. Can you give me any example other than sacrifice where being angry makes superman less dangerous, he was damn angry in FC 7 and yet used his vision to look for dna to identify Turpin. Don't be silly, nobody here is underestimating Thor's speed. H1a8 is overestimating superman's speed as usual and some Thor fans are grossly overestimating his speed.
I'm not under-estimating anything. The OP said Superman is enraged and out for blood, which is a state that he usually isn't in.
Making him THAT angry does impact his thought processes, because it's a completely ooc scenario imo.
Originally posted by abhilegend
^ Which is just that, your opinion which is not supported by comics IMHO. Don't get me wrong, I respect your superman knowledge immensly and you've probably reading comics way before me but here you're wrong pr.
Imo it is, in that he's never been in this mental state before (bar maybe sacrifice). If it was anything in character, then I would say his mental fortitude would see him through, but he's been robbed of that for this battle to an extent.
Originally posted by -Pr-1. I use the term lovingly. 😐
1. Don't use the word "Thorbags".
2. It was your bright idea to take away one of the most important things that makes Superman so effective as a fighter against the more powerful beings he fights.
2. I'm just surprised you don't think superman's speed trumps thor's advantages is all. See what he has done against flash convinces me even more just what a huge speed gap exists between the two.
Originally posted by Starscream M
1. I use the term lovingly. 😐2. I'm just surprised you don't think superman's speed trumps thor's advantages is all. See what he has done against flash convinces me even more just what a huge speed gap exists between the two.
1. I'm sure.
2. His speed advantage is only so large, and Thor's own magic advantage, coupled with a higher power output, is nothing to sneeze at, especially since you've basically removed the mechanism where-by Superman would actually use his speed effectively.