Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Which makes me wonder why none of it ever sinks in. biscuits
How ironic.
At the end of the day ODG your interpretation has numerous holes that can not be argued out of. Mine is supported by on panel and handbook evidence as well as a wealth of Phoenix appearances.
You tried to argue the Consciousness' reference to controlling so many atoms being difficult was in reference to Sublime when he is just a bacterial colony that infected parts of earth, A measly amount of matter and as a bacterium a simple atomic structure.
The Phoenix Forces telekinetic prowess as shown by on panel feat rubbishes your interpretation. An interpretation fabricated merely because of the past tense used in the statement "Telekinetic control of all of those atoms is not as easy as it sounds in training"
Immediately after disinfecting the planet of Sublime, Jean telekinetically amputated an entire timeline an insane tk feat giving precedence for a high level of tk and u would argue removing bacteria from a few infected parts of Earth is difficult?
The whole New X-men series focused on the Phoenixes main power being "telekinetic godhood" complete and unparalleled control of matter down to its component parts.
Jean is shown telekinetically converting the matter of Asteroid M to make a star ship.
Jean also talks of how she can manipulate a universes atoms to create her own universe just a few issues before HCT arc started. And yet you would argue the Consciousness was telling her removing bacteria from Earth would be difficult for her? 😬
We were prepared for Jeans final TK feat all the way through the series and told it was possible.
So in the White Hot Room after Sublime has long been dealt with and Jean is directed to treat the wounded universe, we are told control of all of those atoms isnt as easy as it sound in training.
We are presented with a classroom like environment with a watching Phoenix Corps and by statement it is revealed to us that previous to this moment Jean and the Phoenixes are trained in the use of their TK for complex atomic manipulation. We are also shown in the same series that when a Phoenix uses its power to a certain extent the Consciousness takes control of the vessel. All explained throughout New X-men.
So you have an explanation for the past tense and Jeans lack of knowledge about whats materializing. Through the Force the universe was materialized within her palm for her to control through atomic manipulation as she had been shown in training 🙂
If you'd read the story instead of putting your two cents in on some out of context scans then you'd have known this.
I would never have the audacity to leap into a debate with a Superman fan who clearly knows a lot about the character and try to dictate an interpretation to them without having read the relevant story arcs. Out of context scans do not give you all of the info you need to play know it all 👇
Originally posted by GalacticStormYou've inadvertently isolated your first and biggest problem: you think that extracting Sublime on an atomic level is such a miniscule feat for a PotWC that the statement couldn't possibly reference that telekinetic feat. That has more to do with your preconceptions than with the actual story. I thought I would have to work longer to reveal this predilection of your's. You obviously desire that PotWC have great feats. You found your opening (as contrived as it is) and campaigned for all you were worth. But it's true. Extracting Sublime on an atomic level wasn't easy, not even for a PotWC. That's why the statement makes perfect sense even separate and apart from the fact that it was obviously referencing a feat in the past tense.
You tried to argue the Consciousness' reference to controlling so many atoms being difficult was in reference to Sublime when he is just a bacterial colony that infected parts of earth, A measly amount of matter and as a bacterium a simple atomic structure.
"Telekinetic control of all those atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training not even for a White Phoenix of the Crown."
Such a comment inures more to a fulfilled expectation, i.e., hey... what you just did wasn't exactly easy... even for who you are. Such a comment is almost wholly disconnected from a warning that you're about to achieve something nobody in their wildest dreams could expect, i.e., hey... what you're about to do is going to be insane and far beyond what we've seen before... even for who you are (though why we'd expect it based upon who you are and what you've done makes no sense).
You're plainly ignoring the context surrounding the statement because you have a preconceived notion that atomically extracting Sublime's essence via telekinesis is a low feat for a PotWC and, therefore, any reference to telekinesis must be to something else. Here, it's necessary for you to separate your transparent desire from the material itself.
Originally posted by GalacticStormExcept for the plain fact that Jean accomplished her extraction of Sublime at the cost of her friends all sacrificing themselves via horrible deaths to keep him busy while she gathered herself. This decidedly reveals that such a feat is not so far beneath her since she needed time and/or a distraction:
The Phoenix Forces telekinetic prowess as shown by on panel feat rubbishes your interpretation. An interpretation fabricated merely because of the past tense used in the statement "Telekinetic control of all of those atoms is not as easy as it sounds in training"
Originally posted by GalacticStormLet me know when you figure out whether she telekinetically severed a timeline or telekinetically summoned a universe atomically. And I'm not arguing that atomically extracting Sublime is difficult for a PotWC. It's just not easy, not even for a PotWC. Sound familiar?
Immediately after disinfecting the planet of Sublime, Jean telekinetically amputated an entire timeline an insane tk feat giving precedence for a high level of tk and u would argue removing bacteria from a few infected parts of Earth is difficult?
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what was said on-panel in reference to a past action. You can try to obfuscate the order of events and ascribe comments (incorrectly) to different actions. Bottom-line is, you've clearly got motivation to invent a huge feat for the Phoenix. And it shows. And it would be a huge feat. Which is why a comment concerning easy expectations would be decidedly divorced from such a feat. Yet, another reason (and I've got more) why your interpretation is plainly incorrect.
But by all means, keep it up. You're doing half my work for me.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You've inadvertently isolated your first and biggest problem: you think that extracting Sublime on an atomic level is such a miniscule feat for a PotWC that the statement couldn't possibly reference that telekinetic feat. That has more to do with your preconceptions than with the actual story. I thought I would have to work longer to reveal this predilection of your's. You obviously desire that PotWC have great feats. You found your opening (as contrived as it is) and campaigned for all you were worth. But it's true. Extracting Sublime on an atomic level wasn't easy, not even for a PotWC. That's why the statement makes perfect sense even separate and apart from the fact that it was obviously referencing a feat in the past tense."Telekinetic control of all those atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training not even for a White Phoenix of the Crown."
Such a comment inures more to a fulfilled expectation, i.e., hey... what you just did wasn't exactly easy... even for who you are. Such a comment is almost wholly disconnected from a warning that you're about to achieve something nobody in their wildest dreams could expect, i.e., hey... what you're about to do is going to be insane and far beyond what we've seen before... even for who you are (though why we'd expect it based upon who you are and what you've done makes no sense).
You're plainly ignoring the context surrounding the statement because you have a preconceived notion that atomically extracting Sublime's essence via telekinesis is a low feat for a PotWC and, therefore, any reference to telekinesis must be to something else. Here, it's necessary for you to separate your transparent desire from the material itself. Except for the plain fact that Jean accomplished her extraction of Sublime at the cost of her friends all sacrificing themselves to keep him busy while she gathered herself. This decidedly reveals that such a feat is not so far beneath her since she needed time and/or a distraction:
Let me know when you figure out whether she telekinetically severed a timeline or telekinetically summoned a universe atomically. And I'm not arguing that atomically extracting Sublime is difficult for a PotWC. It's just not easy, not even for a PotWC. Sound familiar?
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what was said on-panel in reference to a past action. You can try to obfuscate the order of events and ascribe comments (incorrectly) to different actions. Bottom-line is, you've clearly got motivation to invent a huge feat for the Phoenix. And it shows. And it would be a huge feat. Which is why a comment concerning easy expectations would be decidedly divorced from such a feat. Yet, another reason (and I've got more) why your interpretation is plainly incorrect.
But by all means, keep it up. You're doing half my work for me.
Im plainly ignoring the context? As aforementioned the whole New x-men Phoenix story showed an ever increasing level of telekinetic prowess, it went from increased telekinetic sensitivity, to matter manipulation and transmutation, slowing down time, telekinetically amputating time to controlling the atomic structure of an entire universe within the palm of her hand.
The story prepared us for such a feat and we were given precedence for such a feat immediately before the feat by her amputation of the HCT timeline as depicted by its phasing out, her statement and its verification in the handbook.
Furthermore you are further highlighting the fact that you have not read the series and are instead basing your entire argument on the few scans that have been posted.
That very comic book scan you have shown is Jean following being disconnected from the Phoenix Force follwoing a psychic attack-
The reason she needed Beast/Sublime to be occupied was NOT because the task of extracting Sublime was difficult, but instead so she could re-establish her psychic connection with the Phoenix Force and continue her Phoenix work.
With that in mind your theory once again falls flat. You excitedly leaped in here with that out of context scan you found on the forum and have showed once again that you have not read the story which prepares you for the final scene and gives precedence for all that entails. Do better 👇
As mentioned in my previous post
following all of Jeans telekinetic feats and her even mentioning her ability to manipulate a universes atoms
following her th amputation of the HCT future
You can not credibly argue that removing bacteria from a few infected parts of Earth are going to prove taxing when within a sentence she casually amputates a future with no visible or discernible strain.
Sublime is long taken out of the picture and carried away.
Jean is directed to the White Hot Room, we are presented with a classroom situation and then we are told manipulation of all of those atoms isnt as easy as it looks in training at which point the Force manifests the universe in Jeans hands and a focused looking Jean maintains atomic control of it within her palm. As we are told she has been shown to do in training.
Youre plainly ignoring the context given for this issue by previous issues and new x-men story arcs. The focus on a Phoenixes unparalleled TK, the talk of Jean manipulating a universes atoms, the classroom setting artistically depicted and the Forces talk of TK demonstrations being given to Jean in training therefore explaining the past tense.
With your excitedly presented scan explained and put in context for you, it no longer supports your case.
You are now left to answer how can you credibly argue that following Jeans TK feats, (especially after casually amputating a timeline) she is going to find telekinetically removing a simple atomically structured bacterium from Beast not easy 😬
Once again, please do better
As for me having to decide on whether Jean amputated a timeline or atomically controlled a universe i dont need to choose out of either when the comic and the handbook verifies she did both.
As stated herself Jean through TK severed the HCT timeline from reality-
A point verified by the M'kraan crystal entry in the marvel handbooks-
After the increasing talk of a Phoenix possessing telekinetic godhood and the increasing levels of TK displayed by Jean leading up to this controversial scene the Consciousness manifests the universe for Jean warning her that maintaining control of all of those atoms isnt as easy as it sounds in training-
The classroom scene depicted with the Phoenix hosts watching over Jean as she controls the atomic mass of the universe the Consciousness manifested for her to perform her work on reflects the Forces statement about Phoenixes receiving training in the use of their TK which explains completely the past tense.
Jean Greys bio following this event was then updated to reveal she can manipulate and control atomic structures of a universal scale.
A point not made until following the HCT story 😖hifty:
Its really quite clear my friend 🙂
So your issue with regards to the tense is countered.
Your issue regarding Jean questioning what has manifested is countered.
Thats pretty much that. Any further bickering is just down to pride. Just get into the practice of actually reading the comic books youre debating on as opposed to taking a superficial glance at a few posted comic book scans and then trying to play the expert.
^ Nobody cares for the ninja-spam. Or the desperate reaching towards secondary sources. I've pointed out several instances where the secondary sources contradict your "colorful imagination."
Originally posted by GalacticStormStop assuming your conclusion. Basic logical fallacy. You're trying to prove that she telkinetically amputated time and telekinetically summoned a universe's atoms into her hands. And stop inadvertenty highlighting your clear motivations. This storyline was not designed to be the culmination of a number of escalating Phoenix feats to impress readers. Christ. Obviously, that's how you want to read Here Comes Tomorrow. We know that. Again, divorce your desires from the source material itself, i.e., the plain presentation of the comics.
Im plainly ignoring the context? As aforementioned the whole New x-men Phoenix story showed an ever increasing level of telekinetic prowess, it went from increased telekinetic sensitivity, to matter manipulation and transmutation, slowing down time, telekinetically amputating time to controlling the atomic structure of an entire universe within the palm of her hand.
Of course, I see you're still confused about whether she amputated an entire timeline or telekinetically summoned the atoms of an entire universe. Let me know when you figure it out. Oh, wait... but you did figure it out, right? She did both? Of course maybe now, after having years of time.. maybe now you can point out which panel of the comic Phoenix actually telekinetically amputated time. Yeah, post the panel. Years later, and I still expect the same behavior from you: feigning ignorance that this simple question has been posed and that you can never answer it. It's one thing to misplace a statement to create a feat... it's another thing to completely invent one out of thin air that curiously isn't even seen.
Originally posted by GalacticStormShe describes exactly why her friends were dying horribly to keep her busy: a coordinated disinfection. Trying to act like Phoenix had just come out of her funk when several pages pass by (seven, in fact) after the scans you posted and the one I posted is more of your narrow-minded tunnel vision at work.
Furthermore you are further highlighting the fact that you have not read the series and are instead basing your entire argument on the few scans that have been posted.That very comic book scan you have shown is Jean following being disconnected from the Phoenix Force follwoing a psychic attack-
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1356/nxm15407.th.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2093/nxm15408.th.jpg
The reason she needed Beast/Sublime to be occupied was [B]NOT
because the task of extracting Sublime was difficult, but instead so she could re-establish her psychic connection with the Phoenix Force and continue her Phoenix work.[/b]
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe very next page after she is holding Sublime in her hands and eventually hands over Sublime's essence is when the comment is made. The very next page. Stop trying to manufacture separation between the actions and the comment:
Sublime is long taken out of the picture and carried away.Jean is directed to the White Hot Room, we are presented with a classroom situation and then we are told manipulation of all of those atoms isnt as easy as it looks in training at which point the Force manifests the universe in Jeans hands and a focused looking Jean maintains atomic control of it within her palm. As we are told she has been shown to do in training.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIrony. I haven't even arrived at the most obvious reasons why your interpretation is exceedingly unlikely, much less incorrect.
Once again, please do better
Such a brief response my friend, a clear signal that the end is nigh.
Retire graciously because this is just tragic 😬
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Stop assuming your conclusion. Basic logical fallacy. You're trying to prove that she telkinetically amputated time and telekinetically summoned a universe's atoms into her hands. And stop inadvertenty highlighting your clear motivations. This storyline was not designed to be the culmination of a number of escalating Phoenix feats to impress readers. Christ. Obviously, that's how you want to read Here Comes Tomorrow. We know that. Again, divorce your desires from the source material itself, i.e., the plain presentation of the comics.
Dont presume to know or inform me of my motivations. Regardless of what you believe they might be what is stated on panel and supported in the handbooks clear as day is what im relaying to you.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Of course, I see you're still confused about whether she amputated an entire timeline or telekinetically summoned the atoms of an entire universe. Let me know when you figure it out. Oh, wait... but you did figure it out, right? She did both? Of course maybe now, after having years of time.. maybe now you can point out which panel of the comic Phoenix actually telekinetically amputated time. Yeah, post the panel. Years later, and still expect the same behavior from you: feigning ignorance that this simple question has been posed. She describes exactly why her friends were dying horribly to keep her busy: [b]a coordinated disinfection. Trying to act like Phoenix had just come out of her funk when several pages pass by (seven, in fact) after the scans you posted and the one I posted is more of your narrow-minded tunnel vision at work. The very next page after she is holding Sublime in her hands and eventually hands over Sublime's essence is when the comment is made. The very next page. Stop trying to manufacture separation between the actions and the comment:Irony. I haven't even arrived at the most obvious reasons why your interpretation is exceedingly unlikely, much less incorrect. [/B]
I take it you hadnt read my 2nd post before you constructed this waffle, that would explain why following me posting a scan of Jean saying she had to telekinetically amputate the future, then posting a handbook entry saying Phoenix severed the future from the multiverse youre still asking for me to show you where it was stated 🙄
Whether you believe Jean should have re-established her connection with the Force quicker than 7 pages or not is of no consequence to me, that is what how long it took and that is the reason why she needed her friends to distract Sublime NOT because the task of removing some bacteria from him was so taxing.
You were incorrect.
I showed you the error of your ways.
Be grateful its alllll love here baby 😆
Furthermore following Sublime being taken away there was a discussion about Jean having to go to the white hot room to heal the universe. So sublime was not being discussed immediately before the talk of manipulation of atoms, the healing of the universe within the crystal was.
Please do better 😱
Originally posted by GalacticStormI've learned not to waste my time when the logical conclusion stares everyone in the face. Less is more sometimes. Particularly when my lengthy responses threaten to suggest that your arguments are anything but awful.
Such a brief response my friend, a clear signal that the end is nigh.Retire graciously because this is just tragic
Nice deflection. I'm sure it worked out exactly how you hoped.
Originally posted by GalacticStormShe's holding Sublime (which she refers to as the future in the very scan you pointed to) and traveling to the White Hot Room. And somehow... you think she's telekinetically amputating a future. That's Sublime. FFS, she's just traveling to the White Hot Room while holding Sublime's essence. Please tell me you haven't just completely gone off the deep end here:
Dont presume to know or inform me of my motivations. Regardless of what you believe they might be what is stated on panel and supported in the handbooks clear as day is what im relaying to you.I take it you hadnt read my 2nd post before you constructed this waffle, that would explain why following me posting a scan of Jean saying she had to telekinetically amputate the future, then posting a handbook entry saying Phoenix severed the future from the multiverse youre still asking for me to show you where it was stated
Originally posted by GalacticStormJust pointed out how you like to cut and paste a plain comic up into different orders and doing away with anything that would provide clearer context and simultaneously detract from your theory-crafting.
Whether you believe Jean should have re-established her connection with the Force quicker than 7 pages or not is of no consequence to me, that is what how long it took and that is the reason why she needed her friends to distract Sublime [B]NOT because the task of removing some bacteria from him was so taxing. [/b]
Originally posted by GalacticStormYeah, actually Sublime was being discussed. Read the page. "Some kind of bacterial intelligent colony gone rogue..." Jean staring at Sublime and asking, Is... is this the future?" Jean remarking, "My friends don't deserve that." All that occurs before she even locks away Sublime. Once she locks Sublime away, what does she say? "Oh. Right. Lost my concentration in there." On what did she lose her concentration? Sublime and the deaths of her friends at the hands of Sublime. And upon Jean's comment about her loss of concentration when dealing with Sublime, what response did she elicit? "Heart got stuck. Turn. Telekinetic control of all those atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training not even for a White Phoenix of the Crown."
Furthermore following Sublime being taken away there was a discussion about Jean having to go to the white hot room to heal the universe. So sublime was not being discussed immediately before the talk of manipulation of atoms, the healing of the universe within the crystal was.Please do better
Please divorce your desires and read the comic as it is written. I still haven't even gone through half the reasons why your interpretation is unlikely. Let's not stop. We're making fine progress here.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I've learned not to waste my time when the logical conclusion stares everyone in the face. Less is more sometimes. Particularly when my lengthy responses threaten to suggest that your arguments are anything but awful.Nice deflection. I'm sure it worked out exactly how you hoped. She's holding Sublime (which she refers to as the future in the very scan you pointed to) and traveling to the White Hot Room. And somehow... you think she's telekinetically amputating a future. That's Sublime. FFS, she's just traveling to the White Hot Room while holding Sublime's essence. Please tell me you haven't just completely gone off the deep end here:
Just pointed out how you like to cut and paste a plain comic up into different orders and doing away with anything that would provide clearer context and simultaneously detract from your theory-crafting. Yeah, actually Sublime was being discussed. Read the page. "Some kind of bacterial intelligent colony gone rogue..." Jean staring at Sublime and asking, Is... is this the future?" Jean remarking, "My friends don't deserve that." All that occurs before she even locks away Sublime. Once she locks Sublime away, what does she say? "Oh. Right. Lost my concentration in there." On what did she lose her concentration? Sublime and the deaths of her friends at the hands of Sublime. And upon Jean's comment about her loss of concentration when dealing with Sublime, what response did she elicit? "Heart got stuck. Turn. Telekinetic control of all those atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training not even for a White Phoenix of the Crown."
Please divorce your desires and read the comic as it is written. I still haven't even gone through half the reasons why your interpretation is unlikely. Let's not stop. We're making fine progress here.
Now doesnt this just reek of desperation. 😂
Jean Grey extracted Sublime for Beast and then we shift out of the HCT reality and she remarks how sublime the bacterial colony had gone rogue therefore she had to amputate the future because the infection was too severe.
She did not amputate the future by removing some bacteria from Beast 🙄
Holding Sublime she asks the consciousness if this is the future, i.e is this what fate has in store for her friends. The Force then states that it was Jeans fault she got too emotionally engaged and didnt do her Phoenix work at which point Jean remarks her friends dont deserve such a future.
She is then told its not over she can heal the universe and usher in a new future.
By your interpretation, Jean removed Sublime which equated to her cutting off the actual future.
Then by your interpretation when Jean is told she can heal the wound and grow a new future that means she can grow a new Sublime bacterial colony on the end of the 616 timeline 😐 😂
Get the hell outta here ------->
As the handbook verifies Jean telekinetically severed the actual HCT reality from the multiverse-
Which therefore supports my point that when she looks at sublime and questions is this the future she means is that what fate hold in store for her friends in the future.
My interpretation as supported by the handbook also means that when Jean is ushered to the white hot room to make a new future it means change events and trigger a more desirable turn of events as opposed to your interpretation. Go to the white hot room and grow a better Sublime bacterial colony on the end of the universe 😂
This is too much. Im done and youre definitely done 😱
Originally posted by GalacticStormMore unintentional irony. Keep deflecting.
Now doesnt this just reek of desperation.
Originally posted by GalacticStormThat's exactly what she did. Since she is staring at Sublime and asking, "Is... is this the future?" She refers to the amputation of the future in the same sentence as she is describing Sublime. Read the scan I just posted again: http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/Sublime01aa.jpg Obviously removing Sublime leads to the "amputation of the future" or "disinfecting an entire future reality." As confirmed by your precious handbooks:
Jean Grey extracted Sublime for Beast and then we shift out of the HCT reality and she remarks how sublime the bacterial colony had gone rogue therefore she had to amputate the future because the infection was too severe.She did not amputate the future by removing some bacteria from Beast
"She then extracted Sublime's essence from the Beast's body, disinfecting the entire future reality." What led to the disinfection/amputation of that entire future? The telekinetic extraction of Sublime's atoms. Oh... you love your precious handbooks now, don't you? And I'm not above using a person's own logic/standards against them. It's what I do. Anyway, it's awful that you think Phoenix holding Sublime and traveling to the White Hot Room is actually meant to be a feat of telekinetically removing the future:
Awful. Just awful. People are allowed to read between the lines... but seriously... this is awful.
Originally posted by GalacticStormYes. She amputated that future by removing Sublime. She then had to replace that future with something else. A future where Cyclops doesn't lose hope. A future where Cyclops finds love. Why would nudging Cyclops to finding new love even require telekinetically summoning an entire universe's atoms in the first place? That's a rhetorical question since the answer is obvious.
Holding Sublime she asks the consciousness if this is the future, i.e is this what fate has in store for her friends. The Force then states that it was Jeans fault she got too emotionally engaged and didnt do her Phoenix work at which point Jean remarks her friends dont deserve such a future.http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5818/nxm15420.th.jpg
She is then told its not over she can heal the universe and usher in a new future.
By your interpretation, Jean removed Sublime which equated to her cutting off the actual future.
Originally posted by GalacticStormTake your inane strawmans elsewhere. You're the one trying to convince us that Jean Grey telekinetically removed a future (that doesn't even phucking make sense... telekinesis on time?) and then telekinetically summoned the atoms of a universe (when all she needed to do was give Cyclops a nudge to find love again).
Then by your interpretation when Jean is told she can heal the wound and grow a new future that means she can grow a new Sublime bacterial colony on the end of the 616 timeline 😐 😂Get the hell outta here ------->
Originally posted by GalacticStormYour liberal use of smilies only covers up a vulnerability in our logic. Oh, wait. I pointed out exactly why you're using smilies. Never mind, nothing was covered up. Carry on.
This is too much. Im done and youre definitely done 😱
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
More unintentional irony. Keep deflecting.That's exactly what she did. Since she is staring at Sublime and asking, "Is... is this the future?" She refers to the amputation of the future in the same sentence as she is describing Sublime. Read the scan I just posted again: http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/Sublime01aa.jpg Obviously removing Sublime leads to the "amputation of the future" or "disinfecting an entire future reality." As confirmed by your precious handbooks:"She then extracted Sublime's essence from the Beast's body, disinfecting the entire future reality." What led to the disinfection/amputation of that entire future? The telekinetic extraction of Sublime's atoms. Oh... you [b]love your precious handbooks now, don't you?
And I'm not above using a person's own logic/standards against them. It's what I do. Anyway, it's awful that you think Phoenix holding Sublime and traveling to the White Hot Room is actually meant to be a feat of telekinetically removing the future:Awful. Just awful. People are allowed to read between the lines... but seriously... this is awful. Yes. She amputated that future by removing Sublime. She then had to replace that future with something else. A future where Cyclops doesn't lose hope. A future where Cyclops finds love. Why would nudging Cyclops to finding new love even require telekinetically summoning an entire universe's atoms in the first place? That's a rhetorical question since the answer is obvious. Take your inane strawmans elsewhere. You're the one trying to convince us that Jean Grey telekinetically removed a future (that doesn't even phucking make sense... telekinesis on time?) and then telekinetically summoned the atoms of a universe (when all she needed to do was give Cyclops a nudge to find love again). Your liberal use of smilies only covers up a vulnerability in our logic. Oh, wait. I pointed out exactly why you're using smilies. Never mind, nothing was covered up. Carry on. [/B]
Dear oh dear.
I bet you actually felt quite clever writing this as well?
Prepare to have your delusions shattered 😱
As is common knowledge within Marvel canon, you cannot change a present or future outcome solely by altering a past event. The outcome from simply changing the past will be a divergent reality will sprout off and that future you wanted to avert would still exist:
That is common knowledge so i am appalled that you do not know this.
How did the Phoenix avoid this normal outcome? By amputating the disinfected part of the timeline from the multiversal tree of realities. Leaving a stump from which she could then alter Scotts reaction, to result in a different outcome from Here Comes Tomorrow. With HCT removed, 616 could grow without hindrance, if HCT was not amputated then reality would have diverged and HCT would have remained in the multiverse.
We know thats not true because Jean states clear as day that she amputated the future.
The latest handbook entry on the matter which actually succeeds your one states quite explicitly that Phoenix amputated the actual HCT reality from the multiverse before going on to nudge Cyclops to alter his reaction and perpetuate the current 616 timeline-
So Jeans work is highlighted in two separate steps, she amputated the actual future, then she encouraged the growth of a new one through event alteration.
However by your theory through extracting bacteria from Beast she also removed the HCT timeline from existence.
Err how did she do that when the trigger point for the HCT timeline was 150 years in the past when Scott reacted negatively to Emma?
Sooo removing bacteria at the end of the timeline resulted in the vanishing of HCT when that doesnt address its creation point?
Absolute nonsense 😂
Furthermore the handbook entry you presented doesnt disagree with my theory or support yours in any way. It says Jean disinfected that future reality by removing Sublime. Thats true. Completely true. What it doesnt state however is that by extracting sublime she automatically amputated the future. That point is an assumption or fabrication of yours which you have no justification to make. In fact disinfection and amputation are two very different surgical procedures. So if anything your scan you presented merely highlights the fact that it does NOT account for Jeans statement that she amputated the future. An omission. Omission does not equate to contradiction.
My more recent handbook entry however makes it clear that Jean "severed" HCT from the multiverse. severed a reference which correlates with Jeans reference to how she had to "amputate
So where are we at this point? 😕
Your theory that by extracting bacteria from the end of the HCT timeline automatically resulted in the disappearance of the timeline is conclusively incorrect because:
It ignores marvel canon that simply altering the past creates a divergent reality
It necessitates equating the word amputate to disinfect when they are two completely different words.
By removing Sublime Jean completed her disinfection and thats what your handbook entry covers, however as Jean stated she had to go further and amputate that whole reality because the infection was so deep.
My handbook entry deals with this part verifying that the actual reality was severed from the multiverse which matches up with Jeans statement.
My theory is supported by both handbook entries and can cover all statements made in the scenes.
Your interpretation involves equating, two different words with very different meanings, ignoring the fact that simply removing bacteria before altering the past would mean 616 was now a divergent reality and HCT still exists (which it does NOT ) and it does not address my handbook entry that refers to the actual reality being severed with no reference to Sublime.
You have entertained me to no end ODG.
But once again..........................PLEASE.DO.BETTER 😱
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're the one trying to convince us that Jean Grey telekinetically removed a future (that doesn't even phucking make sense... telekinesis on time?) and then telekinetically summoned the atoms of a universe (when all she needed to do was give Cyclops a nudge to find love again).
I didnt feel the need to address your previous waffle point for point however i will put a little focus on this part.
I dont need to convince anyone that Jean telekinetically amputated the future. She stated she did, the handbook stated she did and the fact that HCT disappeared as opposed to remaining whilst her event alteration perpetuated the normal timeline instead of creating a divergent reality all conclusively dumps on all you have to offer shit
As for why Jean had to bring the universe into the white hot room to perform her work you can only speculate. She just performed the unparalleled feat of amputating the future off a reality following its disinfection, then the white hot room is called the hospital and she is told she needs to treat the wounded universe there. All in keeping with the surgery theme maybe it was a more stable environment to aid with the success of the treatment. Who knows? Ask Grant Morrison, its a comic book.
Do you know the ins and outs of how a universe sprouts abstract beings? Do you know the inner workings of M'kraan crystal or Ultimate Nullifier? Hell no do you or any other comic reader. Its a comic book. You dont have to. However if you are told that something happens within a comic book by on panel statement, artistic depiction and various handbook entries then you have no choice but to accept mate.
I believe i have said enough here.
Real life beckons.
That will be all 😄
