One thing about this fight is both know each other very well. In a CISless fight, no doubt Doc has the means to counter a blitz from Surfer. He'd probably be expecting it from the get go. Don't see how people put much stock into a blitzing opponent going up against a being capable of projecting illusions/absorbing energy (not just magic)/ energy projection on a scale to harm abstracts/shields able to withstand high order demons etc. Surfer is phucked.
Doesn't matter if "he's expecting it", he can't process thoughts and thus cannot perform spells fast enough to do anything about it.
This fight resolves to simply Surfer vs Strange's auto-shields. Because the speed, reflex and durability gap is so huge that Strange's conscious actions won't have time to enter into the equation.
Surfer wins via board to the brain 🙂.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Just thought you were trying to say it was equal to Surfer. Lot's of things are PC in that case. It doesn't mean muchHe did have auto shields though... and it was from the same issue as the commonly brought up case of his "auto shields", that people use to say how powerful they are. Can't get more clear cut than that.
The shield used against bootleg Surfer was Shield of Seraphim which is not the standard auto shield. If anything it shows versatility in shielding. The Eye (on his person) has reacted at light speed before not to mention blocking Deathurge on its own. Doc doesn't even need to percieve Surfer face to face.
Originally posted by janus77
Doesn't matter if "he's expecting it", he can't process thoughts and thus cannot perform spells fast enough to do anything about it.This fight resolves to simply Surfer vs Strange's auto-shields. Because the speed, reflex and durability gap is so huge that Strange's conscious actions won't have time to enter into the equation.
Surfer wins via board to the brain 🙂.
I bet a board to the brain won't work on his astral form. This isn't about just speed and reflexes. Doc has other means to make it even. You have to think outside the box. Doc has too many options.
Originally posted by SundippedIf inferiour Surfer got through the Shield of Seraphim used as an auto shield, then I feel even worse about Strange's chances at his no thought auto shield holding up. Seeing as the Shield of Seraphim is most certainly more durable than an auto shield. But if that's what you want to believe, than sure, why can't it be the Shield of Seraphim?
The shield used against bootleg Surfer was Shield of Seraphim which is not the standard auto shield. If anything it shows versatility in shielding. The Eye (on his person) has reacted at light speed before not to mention blocking Deathurge on its own. Doc doesn't even need to percieve Surfer face to face.
Deathurge's arrows aren't to my knowledge used as a destructive force. They just jam into people and fudge them up.
The Eye absorbed something going straight for the Eye... once. I don't see why it would protect him from any other angle of attack
Originally posted by Sundipped
I bet a board to the brain won't work on his astral form. This isn't about just speed and reflexes. Doc has other means to make it even. You have to think outside the box. Doc has too many options.
They start off corporeal, and before Strange can think, Surfer's lodged the board in Strange's brain. Strange is a corpse.
IF the speed gap was small, then you could see Strange pulling off some evasive manoeuvres and then uttering some spell or what have you.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
If inferiour Surfer got through the Shield of Seraphim used as an auto shield, then I feel even worse about Strange's chances at his no thought auto shield holding up. Seeing as the Shield of Seraphim is most certainly more durable than an auto shield. But if that's what you want to believe, than sure, why can't it be the Shield of Seraphim?Deathurge's arrows aren't to my knowledge used as a destructive force. They just jam into people and fudge them up.
The Eye absorbed something going straight for the Eye... once. I don't see why it would protect him from any other angle of attack
yeah, can't say i've ever seen the eye simply act of it own volition to block an attack like ss will put out.... 😬
it comes down to whether you think the shields will hold. i think that proposition is a toss-up, and i'd favor ss's odds for getting through.
for fun though, i've heard about strange's ftl reflexes bandied about more than once. does anyone have scans of these instances....?
Originally posted by janus77If Strange can even stand up to zom what chance does surfer have...
You would be right if the speed difference wasn't so vast AND the durability of Strange was up there in the Surfer range.They start off corporeal, and before Strange can think, Surfer's lodged the board in Strange's brain. Strange is a corpse.
IF the speed gap was small, then you could see Strange pulling off some evasive manoeuvres and then uttering some spell or what have you.
Originally posted by Uriel005
If Strange can even stand up to zom what chance does surfer have...
A prepped Strange is different from a CIS free random encounter Strange.
He can't instantly summon the kinds of powers he called upon against Zom.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
If inferiour Surfer got through the Shield of Seraphim used as an auto shield, then I feel even worse about Strange's chances at his no thought auto shield holding up. Seeing as the Shield of Seraphim is most certainly more durable than an auto shield. But if that's what you want to believe, than sure, why can't it be the Shield of Seraphim?Deathurge's arrows aren't to my knowledge used as a destructive force. They just jam into people and fudge them up.
The Eye absorbed something going straight for the Eye... once. I don't see why it would protect him from any other angle of attack
Can't post the scan now but it stopped his initial attack.
Deathurge's arrows have murdered Watchers so it does have merit as a destructive force.
The Eye reacted to protect Strange himself and countered with energy projection of its own. Once Surfers beam is cancelled out then what?
Originally posted by janus77
You would be right if the speed difference wasn't so vast AND the durability of Strange was up there in the Surfer range.They start off corporeal, and before Strange can think, Surfer's lodged the board in Strange's brain. Strange is a corpse.
IF the speed gap was small, then you could see Strange pulling off some evasive manoeuvres and then uttering some spell or what have you.
The Eye would buy him time. And its not like Steve has human durability. Being able to take shots from Hulk and a amped Juggs is a indication. So even if Surfer managed the first lick its not a instant auto win.
Originally posted by SundippedI hope you realize that you're trying to defend his auto shields by saying it wasn't auto shields but actually more powerful shields that were able to absorb power and send recoil back...
Can't post the scan now but it stopped his initial attack.Deathurge's arrows have murdered Watchers so it does have merit as a destructive force.
The Eye reacted to protect Strange himself and countered with energy projection of its own. Once Surfers beam is cancelled out then what?
I'm not saying they aren't powerful when they hit a being, what I'm questioning is their destructive force. IE the force needed to destroy a shield.
Then you have Deathurge not acting the least bit surprised, and it doesn't seem that big of a feat. A decent reaction feat, yes. Decent shield feat? Not really.
It countered it head on. It's like saying that just because Surfer's board blocks attacks, that it would block an attack where the board isn't.
Then Surfer moves slightly to the left and tries again.
Originally posted by leonidasOh but CIS off Strange has auto shields all the time, his Eye blocks attacks all the time, and he has additional shields up all the time...
yeah, can't say i've ever seen the eye simply act of it own volition to block an attack like ss will put out.... 😬it comes down to whether you think the shields will hold. i think that proposition is a toss-up, and i'd favor ss's odds for getting through.
for fun though, i've heard about strange's ftl reflexes bandied about more than once. does anyone have scans of these instances....?
Same here Leo.
...
Um
P
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I hope you realize that you're trying to defend his auto shields by saying it wasn't auto shields but actually more powerful shields that were able to absorb power and send recoil back...I'm not saying they aren't powerful when they hit a being, what I'm questioning is their destructive force. IE the force needed to destroy a shield.
Then you have Deathurge not acting the least bit surprised, and it doesn't seem that big of a feat. A decent reaction feat, yes. Decent shield feat? Not really.It countered it head on. It's like saying that just because Surfer's board blocks attacks, that it would block an attack where the board isn't.
Then Surfer moves slightly to the left and tries again.
Looking back at it, Doc looked impressive against it, auto shield or not. He took the initial blast then shielded himself. All this while trying to figure out what the hell was going on. He wasn't even trying to harm who he thought was the real Surfer but the impostor Surfer (with the real power cosmic) certainly was.
Yes it was a good reaction feat but considering all that Doc has shielded himself against, it doesn't matter what degree of destructive force (if any) Deathurges arrows possess.
Ok so now Surfer gets time to move around. Guess what that does? Gives Doc time to think. Now add a thinking Steve + auto shield if necessary + superhuman durability + the Eye which absorbs any energy reacting at light speed + the normal high caliber shields, and it equals a raped/molested/dead as a doorknob Surfer.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Oh but CIS off Strange has auto shields all the time, his Eye blocks attacks all the time, and he has additional shields up all the time...Same here Leo.
...
Um
In a CISless forum fight vs. Surfer, (someone he knows extremely well), no reason for all of the above to not be in tact.
Originally posted by SundippedUh huh.
PLooking back at it, Doc looked impressive against it, auto shield or not. He took the initial blast then shielded himself. All this while trying to figure out what the hell was going on. He wasn't even trying to harm who he thought was the real Surfer but the impostor Surfer (with the real power cosmic) certainly was.
Yes it was a good reaction feat but considering all that Doc has shielded himself against, it doesn't matter what degree of destructive force (if any) Deathurges arrows possess.
Ok so now Surfer gets time to move around. Guess what that does? Gives Doc time to think. Now add a thinking Steve + auto shield if necessary + superhuman durability + the Eye which absorbs any energy reacting at light speed + the normal high caliber shields, and it equals a raped/molested/dead as a doorknob Surfer.
If Deathurge wasn't firing arrows, but rather beams of energy that killed Watchers... there's no reason to assume Strange's auto shield would protect him.
I said if his attack is canceled out.
But all of that happens in the time it takes Surfer to fire another blast...
Anyway
Surfer breaks through his auto shield and KO's him straight away. Like what the weaker FrankenSurfer did.
Originally posted by janus77Big deal about grammar mistakes
[B]Really? You do realise that you're the one making basic grammatical and logical mistakes.
If anything you're the one who comes across as closest to 'tipping point'.Really, then why is it you follow me into other thread to troll me eh.
As for the business of handing people their arses, I only care for shapely ones of the feminine form, I neither grope nor deliver any other kind... I just merely out wit and out think 😉Pity youve never once shown to out wit or out think anyone...."thunderclap" wins against everything case in point 😂
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Uh huh.
Anyway, his auto shield can be busted through.If Deathurge wasn't firing arrows, but rather beams of energy that killed Watchers... there's no reason to assume Strange's auto shield would protect him.
I said if his attack is canceled out.
But all of that happens in the time it takes Surfer to fire another blast...Anyway
Surfer breaks through his auto shield and KO's him straight away. Like what the weaker FrankenSurfer did.
Forget about a auto shield, the Eye will absorb any energy. So much for Surfers only hope. If he was able to tank then erect a shield vs. Power cosmic I don't see what the problem is. Like I said before Doc does have superhuman durability.
Debatable if energy beams from Deathhurge (or any other being of comparable stature) could get through.
You know why Doc was koed? That issue was drenched in PIS like pancakes in syrup. How the hell can Doc make it look easy first go round then fail later on? Because the plot had fake Surfer blast Doc/woman tries to help Doc (same woman who raised the guy who became fake Surfer)/woman gets killed in the blast/fake Surfer now overcome with grief commits suicide.