CIS LESS Dr Strange vs CIS LESS Silver Surfer

er, are you actually saying that in any fight, the eye will simply absorb any energy thrown at strange....? 😕

did you post the scan of the eye absorbing an energy blast somewhere? and i'm still waiting (not sure it was you or someone else who brought it up so this is not directed at you personally) on the scans that show strange's ftl reflexes.....

Originally posted by leonidas
er, are you actually saying that in any fight, the eye will simply absorb any energy thrown at strange....? 😕

did you post the scan of the eye absorbing an energy blast somewhere? and i'm still waiting (not sure it was you or someone else who brought it up so this is not directed at you personally) on the scans that show strange's ftl reflexes.....

No just this CISless fight due to Doc knowing about Surfers speed advantage.

The scan is in my respect thread. I'll see if I can post it later.

As a big Doc strange fan who has been read his stuff even up to his early strange tales appearances, I can say that on this forum the doc benefits from having one of the most misleading respects threads ive ever seen....its like it was created deliberately to distort what actually happened
In this fight though, he could win as he probably posesses more raw power than surfer ( on some days that is) but surfers speed advantage could be the killer.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Forget about a auto shield, the Eye will absorb any energy. So much for Surfers only hope. If he was able to tank then erect a shield vs. Power cosmic I don't see what the problem is. Like I said before Doc does have superhuman durability.

Debatable if energy beams from Deathhurge (or any other being of comparable stature) could get through.

You know why Doc was koed? That issue was drenched in PIS like pancakes in syrup. How the hell can Doc make it look easy first go round then fail later on? Because the plot had fake Surfer blast Doc/woman tries to help Doc (same woman who raised the guy who became fake Surfer)/woman gets killed in the blast/fake Surfer now overcome with grief commits suicide.

Uh huh... you completely missed the point.
Let me spell it out for you again. If an energy attack that was able to kill Watchers was fired at Strange when he wasn't paying attention, then there is absolutely no way his auto shields would hold up. Luckily, Deathurge's arrows don't have destructive power, but rather just plain up the ability to kill.

Or maybe Surfer tried a little harder because he was fairly pissed off at this point in time.
And are you trying to call PIS on something else when you're defending Strange? In the same post where you're trying to say Strange's auto shields could defend against something that kills Watchers? ha?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Are you trying to ignore what I'm saying on purpose? Once again... the Eye can't absorb anything unless it's head on.
Plus, CIS doesn't mean that something acting of its own accord is going to work for Strange anyway, but I digress.

What makes you think Surfer wouldn't be attacking head on? You act as if Surfer is going to just change trajectory at the start of the fight. Under standard character and for all intents and purposes Surfer would be attacking head up. Why wouldn''t Doc have the Eye ready to react vs. a opponent of Surfers caliber CISless?

Originally posted by Sr-J-Bieb
Uh huh... you completely missed the point.
Let me spell it out for you again. If an energy attack that was able to kill Watchers was fired at Strange when he wasn't paying attention, then there is absolutely no way his auto shields would hold up. Luckily, Deathurge's arrows don't have destructive power, but rather just plain up the ability to kill.

Again this is debatable. Unless you have evidence of an auto shield completely failing, you can't say it won't hold up. The Eye would serve as the primary defense against Surfer anyway being that it's a more potent variety.

Originally posted by Sr-J-Bieb
Or maybe Surfer tried a little harder because he was fairly pissed off at this point in time.
And are you trying to call PIS on something else when you're defending Strange? In the same post where you're trying to say Strange's auto shields could defend against something that kills Watchers? ha?

There was PIS in the story. Strange had no problems while holding back vs. a pissed replica Surfer the first meeting. His superiority was shown beforehand before the fail. The plot involved dramatic circumstances involving the woman closely connected to Frankensurfer resulting in him killing himself.

Originally posted by Sundipped
What makes you think Surfer wouldn't be attacking head on? You act as if Surfer is going to just change trajectory at the start of the fight. Under standard character and for all intents and purposes Surfer would be attacking head up. Why wouldn''t Doc have the Eye ready to react vs. a opponent of Surfers caliber CISless?

Again this is debatable. Unless you have evidence of an auto shield completely failing, you can't say it won't hold up. The Eye would serve as the primary defense against Surfer anyway being that it's a more potent variety.

There was PIS in the story. Strange had no problems while holding back vs. a pissed replica Surfer the first meeting. His superiority was shown beforehand before the fail. The plot involved dramatic circumstances involving the woman closely connected to Frankensurfer resulting in him killing himself.

Sure thing. His auto shield failed against Surfer.

Or Surfer was outputting more power...

Spite against Strange; Surfer wins every single time in a nano-second...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Surfer is known to use cheap tactics in fights.
Also, because they was acting of it's own accord...

Sure thing. His auto shield failed against Surfer.

Or Surfer was outputting more power...

Bran I'm sure you're an ok guy but this is a bullshit counter to my response. 👇

You are entitled to your opinion, however it can't be respected. At least not by me.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Bran I'm sure you're an ok guy but this is a bullshit counter to my response. 👇

You are entitled to your opinion, however it can't be respected. At least not by me.

Or that Strange's auto shield didn't fail against weak Surfer?

Or that it's impossible for a character to put more effort into a blast to accomplish something they failed before?

OK, sure thing. Let me forget everything I know about both characters so I can see things your way. 👆

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
So you expect me to believe that the Eye's only real showcase of protecting Strange on panel actually means it can protect him from everything, from every angle?
And that Surfer doesn't actually pull cheap in his fights, like boards to back of heads, and dancing around firing blasts from every angle. Plus, you just said that under standard character portrayal that Surfer would be attacking head on in the same breath that you said CISless Strange would have his eye ready against everything Surfer like.
Really? So, Surfer is in character (not really), but Strange isn't?

Or that Strange's auto shield didn't fail against weak Surfer?

Or that it's impossible for a character to put more effort into a blast to accomplish something they failed before?

OK, sure thing. Let me forget everything I know about both characters so I can see things your way. 👆

This is real simple. Surfer attacks head up, the Eye absorbs the blast during which time Doc erects a shield. It's downhill for Surfer from that point on.

You can make the situation favorable for Surfer all you want but this is a forum fight. How often does Surfer "start" a fight by using evasive tactics like you mentioned anyway? Extremely rare to my knowledge.

Reason I give Doc the Eye counter defence is because he knows very well how fast Surfer is. I can't see a being of his intelligence not utilizing his best option in a case like this. It's really tailor made for this situation. If he had no knowledge whatsoever of Surfer then I would agree with you.

Doc handled him easily before. No need to bring it up anymore. The writer clearly intended for Doc to show submission later in the story in accordance to the plot. I can't see why that's so hard for you to grasp.

Originally posted by Sundipped
This is real simple. Surfer attacks head up, the Eye absorbs the blast during which time Doc erects a shield. It's downhill for Surfer from that point on.

You can make the situation favorable for Surfer all you want but this is a forum fight. How often does Surfer "start" a fight by using evasive tactics like you mentioned anyway? Extremely rare to my knowledge.

Reason I give Doc the Eye counter defence is because he knows very well how fast Surfer is. I can't see a being of his intelligence not utilizing his best option in a case like this. It's really tailor made for this situation. If he had no knowledge whatsoever of Surfer then I would agree with you.

Doc handled him easily before. No need to bring it up anymore. The writer clearly intended for Doc to show submission later in the story in accordance to the plot. I can't see why that's so hard for you to grasp.

Making a situation favorable? You have Strange using something that's only happened once in his half a century time in comics. You have Strange basically activating three shields before Surfer attacks twice. And then you ask how many times Surfer has attacked from the back at the start?
Even if Surfer's not allowed to attack Strange's back, he's fast enough to fire off a blast at the front, and then go around and hit him from the back.

So why does Strange get the benefit of the doubt here? Surfer also knows Strange, and knows how powerful he can be as the fight progresses. Surfer knows Strange is deadliest at his front. Surfer knows Strange just as well as Strange knows Surfer.

If by "handled him easily" means that he deflected one attack, and Surfer broke out of the Rings, then yes. Also, how are you claiming PIS on this? It can just as easily be called PIS the situation you're talking about. Or Surfer just tried harder... but the PIS route is a lot easier than that hey?
Yes, that's clearly what the writer meant. I can't wait to see the page where the writer explains what he wanted from this story.

Strange simply isn't durable enough to survive Surfer's initial onslaught. Or fast enough to do what he needs to to survive it. Even factoring in your stipulations.

Let's examine this shall we.
So, because Strange knows Surfer, that means that he'll activate the Eye at the beginning of the battle to protect him from any threats, even though the Eye has only done this once in 50 years of comic appearances, and it activated of its own accord. This will then allow him the time to activate the other shield he needs. All of this happens in the time it takes Surfer to attack once.

Surfer, even though he knows Strange just as well, isn't allowed to start the battle attacking Strange from behind (even though he's fast enough).

Double standard One.

Strange is allowed to use the Eye's auto defenses here because he knows Surfer and CIS is off. No questions asked.

Surfer is questioned that he would attack Strange from behind even though he knows Strange, and Surfer is pretty damn cheap.

Double standard Two.

The first battle with weaker FrankenSurfer is usable because it happened earlier in the comic, and because Strange was able to hold off Surfer.

The second battle with weaker FrankenSurfer isn't usuable because it happened later, even though Surfer was right pissed off at that point.

Double standard Three.

At the end of the day, you're having Strange use something he very rarely uses in that way, activates another shield, and he has to activate both with his mind (especially since you said he would make it work like this) before Surfer moves and blasts twice.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Even if that's how it happens, the eye snuffing out energy the one time it did it sure as hell took a while for a guy using it against Surfer. By that time, Surfer is already behind him.

Making a situation favorable? You have Strange using something that's only happened once in his half a century time in comics. You have Strange basically activating three shields before Surfer attacks twice. And then you ask how many times Surfer has attacked from the back at the start?
Even if Surfer's not allowed to attack Strange's back, he's fast enough to fire off a blast at the front, and then go around and hit him from the back.

So why does Strange get the benefit of the doubt here? Surfer also knows Strange, and knows how powerful he can be as the fight progresses. Surfer knows Strange is deadliest at his front. Surfer knows Strange just as well as Strange knows Surfer.

If by "handled him easily" means that he deflected one attack, and Surfer broke out of the Rings, then yes. Also, how are you claiming PIS on this? It can just as easily be called PIS the situation you're talking about. Or Surfer just tried harder... but the PIS route is a lot easier than that hey?
Yes, that's clearly what the writer meant. I can't wait to see the page where the writer explains what he wanted from this story.

Strange simply isn't durable enough to survive Surfer's initial onslaught. Or fast enough to do what he needs to to survive it. Even factoring in your stipulations.

Let's examine this shall we.
So, because Strange knows Surfer, that means that he'll activate the Eye at the beginning of the battle to protect him from any threats, even though the Eye has only done this once in 50 years of comic appearances, and it activated of its own accord. This will then allow him the time to activate the other shield he needs. All of this happens in the time it takes Surfer to attack once.

Surfer, even though he knows Strange just as well, isn't allowed to start the battle attacking Strange from behind (even though he's fast enough).

Double standard One.

Strange is allowed to use the Eye's auto defenses here because he knows Surfer and CIS is off. No questions asked.

Surfer is questioned that he would attack Strange from behind even though he knows Strange, and Surfer is pretty damn cheap.

Double standard Two.

The first battle with weaker FrankenSurfer is usable because it happened earlier in the comic, and because Strange was able to hold off Surfer.

The second battle with weaker FrankenSurfer isn't usuable because it happened later, even though Surfer was right pissed off at that point.

Double standard Three.

At the end of the day, you're having Strange use something he very rarely uses in that way, activates another shield, and he has to activate both with his mind (especially since you said he would make it work like this) before Surfer moves and blasts twice.

So now you have Surfer zipping all over the place firing from multiple locations, bloodlusted in a sense. Didn't see that in the op.

I know its a rare occurrence of the Eye reacting lightspeed but if it happened more frequently it would label Steve a walking plot device and boring read. For forum purposes I'd label it admissible. Having said that, the Eye absorbs the blast then he puts up the Serphim shield. Not 3 shields but a counter & 1 shield. If he can tank PC then erect the Seraphim shield in DS#37 then he can do this in a forum fight. Assuming Surfer manages to connect with the first attack like you presume. Docs durability is still high unshielded so he can sustain at least 1 PC blast.

You keep saying Surfer was pissed second time around. Newsflash......he was pissed the first time too. Doc still treated him like a stepchild. Even put him in a bubble and left him helpless momentarily. He could've done it again but that's wasn't the intended ending (to have Doc pwn him twice) to be portrayed. Having the woman who nursed Frankensurfer getting killed was conducive to the plot. You can deny it all you want but I'm not screaming PIS just for the hell of it.

Surfer.

Originally posted by Sundipped
So now you have Surfer zipping all over the place firing from multiple locations, bloodlusted in a sense. Didn't see that in the op.

I know its a rare occurrence of the Eye reacting lightspeed but if it happened more frequently it would label Steve a walking plot device and boring read. For forum purposes I'd label it admissible. Having said that, the Eye absorbs the blast then he puts up the Serphim shield. Not 3 shields but a counter & 1 shield. If he can tank PC then erect the Seraphim shield in DS#37 then he can do this in a forum fight. Assuming Surfer manages to connect with the first attack like you presume. Docs durability is still high unshielded so he can sustain at least 1 PC blast.

You keep saying Surfer was pissed second time around. Newsflash......he was pissed the first time too. Doc still treated him like a stepchild. Even put him in a bubble and left him helpless momentarily. He could've done it again but that's wasn't the intended ending (to have Doc pwn him twice) to be portrayed. Having the woman who nursed Frankensurfer getting killed was conducive to the plot. You can deny it all you want but I'm not screaming PIS just for the hell of it.

It's a one time occurence.

No he can't. Strange unshielded would be crushed by Surfer. Strange shielded got one shotted by a pissed off weaker Surfer.

He had no emotion at all the first fight. When he put him in a bubble that was a page before he got knocked out...
And I'm not sure what putting him in a bubble that cancels out magic would do to the real Surfer...

You are screaming PIS just for the hell of it. Hell, you're not even sure the order of things when you thought the bubble was from the first fight.
Hell, Strange didn't even need to get hit by the blast going by plot, since only the mama getting hit was needed.

Strange blocked an attack and puts the Rings on Surfer in the first fight.
Strange deflected Surfer's attack, put him in a magic canceling bubble, and got KO'ed when his "auto shield" got hit in the second fight.

And you know what the funniest thing is? The "auto shield" Strange threw up was to a Surfer just going the speed of sound... JUST IN TIME. I'd like to a think a CISless real Surfer isn't going to go just over the speed of sound...

Now I just made myself curious if Strange actually has an auto shield that acts of its own accord... besides the one time Eye defending feat.
Oh well. Strange loses.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
It's CISless. Keep clinging to your double standard though where Strange is CISless, and Surfer is questioned at everything he does.
I have Surfer blasting him twice and moving around. Which he's done in comics. You have Strange activating an auto shield, activating his Eye to defend attacks, and then strengthening his auto shield (since the auto shield used against Surfer was just a weaker hastily errected Seraphimic Shield). I didn't see that in the OP.

It's a one time occurence.

No he can't. Strange unshielded would be crushed by Surfer. Strange shielded got one shotted by a pissed off weaker Surfer.

He had no emotion at all the first fight. When he put him in a bubble that was a page before he got knocked out...
And I'm not sure what putting him in a bubble that cancels out magic would do to the real Surfer...

You are screaming PIS just for the hell of it. Hell, you're not even sure the order of things when you thought the bubble was from the first fight.
Hell, Strange didn't even need to get hit by the blast going by plot, since only the mama getting hit was needed.

Strange blocked an attack and puts the Rings on Surfer in the first fight.
Strange deflected Surfer's attack, put him in a magic canceling bubble, and got KO'ed when his "auto shield" got hit in the second fight.

And you know what the funniest thing is? The "auto shield" Strange threw up was to a Surfer just going the speed of sound... JUST IN TIME. I'd like to a think a CISless real Surfer isn't going to go just over the speed of sound...

Now I just made myself curious if Strange actually has an auto shield that acts of its own accord... besides the one time Eye defending feat.
Oh well. Strange loses.

You're still using 3 forms of defense. All I said was needed was the counter from the Eye then the shield of Seraphim. No auto shield involved. Remember I said forget about the auto shield? The Eye will auto react with a beam of its own. While beams are being cancelled allowing Steve the precious time needed, Doc erects the shield so it doesn't matter about the speed of sound from weak Surfer. I see real Surfer only getting off 1 blast in this scenario.

Durability will hold up. It did vs. Juggs with a amp so why not?

The bubble reference was just to show a time buying aspect for Doc to do whatever he wants. Quite a bit of dialogue was spoken before he broke out. Enough for a potent spell to be cast.

We'll never see eye to eye on the PIS issue especially but its all good. Doc was down and out and the lady tried to help him. Just understand that from my viewpoint, all events (including Doc failing) leading up to the dramatic ending , were in favor of ending the Frankensurfer threat the way it did.

To sum this up you pick Surfer I choose Doc. While both are capable of beating each other I side with Doc for the majority. We have different views but what would a forum be with all the same views? That is all.

Originally posted by Sundipped
You're still using 3 forms of defense. All I said was needed was the counter from the Eye then the shield of Seraphim. No auto shield involved. Remember I said forget about the auto shield? The Eye will auto react with a beam of its own. While beams are being cancelled allowing Steve the precious time needed, Doc erects the shield so it doesn't matter about the speed of sound from weak Surfer. I see real Surfer only getting off 1 blast in this scenario.

Durability will hold up. It did vs. Juggs with a amp so why not?

Strange's barely reacting to the speed of sound reflexes affords him the ability to tell his Eye to react to anything (which you said he would, because he knows Surfer), and put up a shield before Surfer can attack twice.
Plus, he can take Surfer's blast unshielded...
😂

Well... no point continuing this. Agree to disagree I guess.

Surfer shuts down Strange's brain before Strange can even generate an electrical impulse in it.

Or Surfer removes the language and movement centres of Strange's brain, so that he cannot do any incantations and sits back on the Surfboard laughing as Strange is imprisoned behind his own autoshields.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer shuts down Strange's brain before Strange can even generate an electrical impulse in it.

Or Surfer removes the language and movement centres of Strange's brain, so that he cannot do any incantations and sits back on the Surfboard laughing as Strange is imprisoned behind his own autoshields.

I've never agreed with any of your posts, but I'll be damned, I can actually see that happening. He'd do what you said, then Norrin would be laughing like...

Originally posted by dmills
I've never agreed with any of your posts, but I'll be damned, I can actually see that happening. He'd do what you said, then Norrin would be laughing like...