Thor vs Superman (Pure strength)

Started by Uriel00532 pages

Originally posted by leonidas
in mathematics and science, there are such things as scales of infinity. the subset of numbers between 1 and 2=infinite. the set of ALL numbers is also infinite, but the set of all numbers>subset of numbers between 1 and 2 because it includes that subset.

infinities are not viewed equally. just sayin.

true but in the case of the book it was a moot point because it's concept was as a weight without limit or end high or low. So in this case lifting even a fraction is still beyond comprehension in terms of giving it a numerical value.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Superman didn't need the Help, he even didn't really struggle, CM struggled however. Superman is a good guy and if you have to accomplish something as impossible as this, you don't play the arrogant attention whore but take everything that is available to help you. Ultraman seemed to struggle more btw. Anyway, a moot point as Kal beats his ass^^ and this Kal isn't there anymore^^.

Ohhhh God. He's back.

Originally posted by carver9
Ohhhh God. He's back.

I missed you too Carver, my Boy^^. And hey, I have my final exam on 2nd Feb. After that you will see me here more often :>.

BP smash puny Carver 😛.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I missed you too Carver, my Boy^^. And hey, I have my final exam on 2nd Feb. After that you will see me here more often :>.

BP smash puny Carver 😛.

Missed destroying you as well. It's good to have you back though. Hope you do well on your exam.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Listen these insults would lead you nowhere, who cares if you love superman or not.

You definitely care. Since you are the same idiot who's been implying that I somehow have a bias against him and am lowballing him in this very thread. Idiot. 🙂

Forget that I am the same dude who was arguing for the Superman city building speed feat perhaps? Think before you type.


You cornered me? Lulz, says the guy who's trying to ignore two feats from different times, two different writers and performed with two different partners because he doesn't like them and it doesn't fit in his frame of logic of how comics work. No shit sherlock, most of comics don't follow real world logic. Who said anyone using this in combat threads? It happened, get over it. But as pr ruled it out, its not usable.

I like how you've not addressed a damn thing I said and just go on plugging your ears saying 'lalalalala but it happened!11'

Slowing down spectre thing? Bullshit hyperbole. He does not have the infinite weight, clearly. else trying to slow down his landing would be, you know pointless.

Infinite pages feat. Already addressed.

Doing something 'twice', years apart, over thousands of appearances does not consistency make. Especially when they are riddled with contradictory showings within the same stories and have no logical follow through. You do know what P.I.S. is yes?

It's irrelevant whether this is a combat thread or not, the point is you can't accept bits and pieces of what a feat means; trying to strictly apply real world logic towards one aspect while ignoring everything else the feat would bring implicitly. Again being that he can lift half of infinity then it must mean he's infinitely strong, you support this. BUT since he can apply infinite force in lifting, he should definitely be able to apply infinite force in punching. And being infinitely strong also means you should be infinitely fast. But, he's not an infinite force puncher nor is he infinitely fast, is he? You certainly won't say. Sometimes a nonsensical feat is just a nonsensical feat. This is why unquantifiable feats are ignored.

Yes, 'they happened', I don't have to get over it, as its not even a bother to me. Rather, it's you who needs to get over that they don't mean what you want them to mean.


She-hulk also did all that stuff. Means squat. Lobo is above kal as soon as you can prove all his losses are due to clones which as Lobo confirmed is not true in REBELS 27, I'm sure is not happening any time soon.

Lobo has some occasional bugs gunny level toon force. Jen does not; an occasional fourth wall breaker is all. Anyway, red herring. Pointless to the discussion at hand, will not address any further.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman, if only just. It's not by any kind of noticeable or massive degree, certainly not anywhere close to being x50 - x1000 stronger than Thor. I lol'd good about that by the way.

h1's take is far more reasonable than the other angle being implied here.

abhilegend for example, of course, supports the idea that Superman is stronger than Thor because he can lift 'infinite weight'. Which obviously has to imply that Thor CANNOT lift 'infinite weight'. Which would mean Superman is infinitely stronger than Thor, yes?

Obviously, speaking of implications again, you won't be able to get abhilegend to actually outright STATE that he believes Superman is infinitely stronger than Thor, because of course he will be laughed at.

h1 on the other hand dispenses of unquantifiable feats and focuses on what can be given a minimum figure. And I have to respect that. Afterall, if you see Savage Dragon lift a jeep sized boulder, and Luke Cage lift a tank, and we are in a thread arguing who is stronger, you would likely be WRONG if you went on visuals alone. (i.e. that the tank should be heavier just because its bigger.)

I find it a lot easier to believe that Superman could be 50 times stronger than Thor than saying he is infinitely stronger than Thor, don't you?

I don't know why people are so flabbergasted over a character statement of holding infinite weight. Hell, Reed Richards even thinks Gladiator is capable of limitless strength.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/354/glad2jf0.jpg/

Originally posted by carver9
I don't know why people are so flabbergasted over a character statement of holding infinite weight. Hell, Reed Richards even thinks Gladiator is capable of limitless strength.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/354/glad2jf0.jpg/

People are not flabbergasted over it, they just know for a fact that characters like superman,CM or Ultraman dont have anywhere near limitless strength. What gets to people is when they try to ram that booking lifting BS down their throats when everyone and their grandmother know that going by that book lifting thing means that superman,CM and Ultraman are stronger than... Kurse,WBH,Zeus,pre-crisis superman,superman prime, All-star superman, superman one million and every other character ever created in Marvel, DC and image ALL TOGETHER IN ONE BODY. Yet supes,cm and um gets over powered and beaten by the likes of atlas, black adam, wonder woman, Ultraa and many other heros and villians who you could not PAY them to claim that they also must have infinite strength.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't know why people are so flabbergasted over a character statement of holding infinite weight. Hell, Reed Richards even thinks Gladiator is capable of limitless strength.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/354/glad2jf0.jpg/

Not the same thing 😬

Originally posted by iceman24567
Not the same thing 😬

Exactly.

--

While Torqasm Rao/Vo was never explicitly retconned, the fact that it hasn't been referenced since what, the late 90s? Would suggest to me that it wasn't really considered a valid part of his powerset by the time Infinite Crisis came around. I wouldn't go about using it in debates.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
You definitely care. Since you are the same idiot who's been implying that I somehow have a bias against him and am lowballing him in this very thread. Idiot. 🙂

Listen dude, you obviously don't have the capacity to follow a civil conversation without insults. So why bother replying when all you have is your opinion about how a feat is invalid, which you are repeating ad nauseam. Try this again and I have to report you.

Forget that I am the same dude who was arguing for the Superman city building speed feat perhaps? Think before you type.

And? How's that relevant here? Did I say you try to lowball superman every chance you get? No, that's an honor that only carver gets.

I like how you've not addressed a damn thing I said and just go on plugging your ears saying 'lalalalala but it happened!11'

What's there to address other than your opinion and some applications of real world science which are clearly not relevant in comics otherwise we have to invalid a lot more showings other than infinite book feat.

Slowing down spectre thing? Bullshit hyperbole. He does not have the infinite weight, clearly. else trying to slow down his landing would be, you know pointless.

The comic says otherwise

Infinite pages feat. Already addressed.

Where, oh you mean your opinion that it can't be infinite because "It just can't". Great debating there sherlock

Doing something 'twice', years apart, over thousands of appearances does not consistency make. Especially when they are riddled with contradictory showings within the same stories and have no logical follow through. You do know what P.I.S. is yes?

Its comics dude, otherwise tell me how's flash does have any trouble with any of his rogues when he can move like 13 trillion times speed of light (not my calculation), and this is not his limit either. So we take any comic where superman or flash doesn't ko their opponent within the first nano-second PIS. There we go with one panel comics. This is comics, there are always contradictory showings.

It's irrelevant whether this is a combat thread or not, the point is you can't accept bits and pieces of what a feat means; trying to strictly apply real world logic towards one aspect while ignoring everything else the feat would bring implicitly. Again being that he can lift half of infinity then it must mean he's infinitely strong, you support this. BUT since he can apply infinite force in lifting, he should definitely be able to apply infinite force in punching. And being infinitely strong also means you should be infinitely fast. But, he's not an infinite force puncher nor is he infinitely fast, is he? You certainly won't say. Sometimes a nonsensical feat is just a nonsensical feat. This is why unquantifiable feats are ignored.

Yes, 'they happened', I don't have to get over it, as its not even a bother to me. Rather, it's you who needs to get over that they don't mean what you want them to mean.

Pray tell me what I want them to mean? Does that mean superman isn't infinitely stronger than thor? Oh noes, what would I do with my life now!!!???

Lobo has some occasional bugs gunny level toon force. Jen does not; an occasional fourth wall breaker is all. Anyway, red herring. Pointless to the discussion at hand, will not address any further.

Nope, she did all that toony stuff for her entire 50 issue run like this

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6017/sensationalshehulkv2009wy2.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/56196/1888939-tumblr_l2bsfhy0k11qziacgo1_500_super.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j182/swiftian/zaius2009a/zaius09d/shehulk2.jpg
http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1238514740.jpg

Does that mean she could defeat thor in a vs thread, nope.

h1's take is far more reasonable than the other angle being implied here.

Lulz.

abhilegend for example, of course, supports the idea that Superman is stronger than Thor because he can lift 'infinite weight'. Which obviously has to imply that Thor CANNOT lift 'infinite weight'. Which would mean Superman is infinitely stronger than Thor, yes?

Nice attempt to put words in my mouth, but no superman isn't stronger than thor because he lifted "infinite weight". Quote me where I said that or GTFO with this imaginary stuff.

Obviously, speaking of implications again, you won't be able to get abhilegend to actually outright STATE that he believes Superman is infinitely stronger than Thor, because of course he will be laughed at.

Actually sherlock, I give thor an even split against superman. Even in this thread I give superman just a little strength edge over thor and almost every thor fan (rage, jake) agree with me. So, no superman isn't infinitely stronger than thor. Bring a proof that I ever said that or STFU with this psycology.

h1 on the other hand dispenses of unquantifiable feats and focuses on what can be given a minimum figure. And I have to respect that. Afterall, if you see Savage Dragon lift a jeep sized boulder, and Luke Cage lift a tank, and we are in a thread arguing who is stronger, you would likely be WRONG if you went on visuals alone. (i.e. that the tank should be heavier just because its bigger.)

I find it a lot easier to believe that Superman could be 50 times stronger than Thor than saying he is infinitely stronger than Thor, don't you?


Blah, blah, blah. How's that relevant here unless you believe the BS h1 spouts that superman is 50 times stronger than thor. Thor also has some abstract level strength feats like turning the wheels of world engine and turning back time

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorStrength43494.jpg

Originally posted by -Pr-
Exactly.

--

While Torqasm Rao/Vo was never explicitly retconned, the fact that it hasn't been referenced since what, the late 90s? Would suggest to me that it wasn't really considered a valid part of his powerset by the time Infinite Crisis came around. I wouldn't go about using it in debates.


No one is arguing about using it in debates, I was just correcting cdtm that it has never been used other than dominus. Funny that if we go that route how many showings of other characters would have to be excluded from threads.

Lol, like I said earlier, these type of showings are just mean to prove that the characters are strong. Taking it beyond that, is a bit pointless. I don't think they should be discarded though.

Fun fact: Thor turning the World Engine is basically the equivalent of Hercules lifting the Heavens. By that I mean, they -World Tree and Atlas- are both representations of the Cosmic Axis (The World Tree is more important, came first, and is connected to an infinite number of Universes though), except more impressive since Thor was weakened and the World Tree was actively exerting it's will to bring about Ragnarok.

I treat those high end unquantifiable/abstract feats for what they're worth. Epic high end showings to wow the readers. I accept they happened, but I also reconcile that for the intents and purposes of the vast majority of said character's history, they're not possessed of "infinite strength".

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I treat those high end unquantifiable/abstract feats for what they're worth. Epic high end showings to wow the readers. I accept they happened, but I also reconcile that for the intents and purposes of the vast majority of said character's history, they're not possessed of "infinite strength".

👆

Originally posted by -Pr-
Exactly.

--

While Torqasm Rao/Vo was never explicitly retconned, the fact that it hasn't been referenced since what, the late 90s? Would suggest to me that it wasn't really considered a valid part of his powerset by the time Infinite Crisis came around. I wouldn't go about using it in debates.

Actually it was referenced just last year in superman retroactive

[/URL][/IMG]

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol, like I said earlier, these type of showings are just mean to prove that the characters are strong. Taking it beyond that, is a bit pointless. I don't think they should be discarded though.

Fun fact: Thor turning the World Engine is basically the equivalent of Hercules lifting the Heavens. By that I mean, they -World Tree and Atlas- are both representations of the Cosmic Axis (The World Tree is more important, came first, and is connected to an infinite number of Universes though), except more impressive since Thor was weakened and the World Tree was actively exerting it's will to bring about Ragnarok.

I never use unquantifiable feats for obvious reasons. But I disagree with your assessment on the world engine. I believe it took less than planetary force to turn it.

With that said, quantifiable feats are the way to go, or feats that have a minimum threshold.

No matter what feats Superman has performed, it's how he matches up against a lot of non-flying adversaries at DC that is revealing. Darkseid & Orion are supposed to be his equal; Mongul (the first) and Doomsday have been stated in the past to have strength even greater that Superman, and when have we seen them do anything with it except brawl extensively? Which is why I've contended he uses a different power set when he's in flight.

Originally posted by h1a8
But I disagree with your assessment on the world engine. I believe it took less than planetary force to turn it.

I know I'm going to regret this, but based on what exactly?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I know I'm going to regret this, but based on what exactly?

Because it doesnt equal 50 Earth weights (lol).

Originally posted by paisapower
Actually it was referenced just last year in superman retroactive

[/URL][/IMG]

That's a retrospective though; it's not really in continuity.