Whos overall more powerful? Thor or Surfer?

Originally posted by h1a8
That's because you haven't envisioned the world frozen in time where you can do anything you want without anyone to stop you.

I like to deal with what comics show us over unlikely scenarios based on science, physics, and logic, than frankly, means nothing to most characters, especially a space faring alien and a god of thunder.

Unless you really think that out of everything Surfer can do, it's his speed which is the most important aspect of his power set...which...yeah.... 😐

If the characters are of similar/comparable levels of power and are both resolutely attempting to 'best' each other in a fight, then the deciding factor would be speed.

That said, in comics, the story/plot subordinates logic/continuity/reason and so some characters are both stated to be capable of insane speeds and reflexes and yet continually fail to demonstrate any of it in a fight.

Surfer has total awareness over a planetary area (at the very least), he can be "everywhere" on Earth at the same time and feel/process everything instantly. He should be trans/skyfather, if he used his powers well.

Characters like Genis Vell (and his use of cosmic awareness) or Molecule Man (and his ability with matter manipulation) are examples of what the powers he controls can do, when refined and properly utilised.

Just think about how much power he must possess in order to evolve a planet billions of years or to heal a Watcher (or even Thor) from near fatal injury.

If Thor were to use his powers to his utmost ability, he'd also be Trans/Skyfather level.

And I'll be the first to concede Surfer's wider array of abilities and versatility as compared to Thor. I just don't buy into the theory that Surfer's speed is his most powerful ability at his disposal when compared to everything else he can do. Speed's important, sure, but really, comics don't support it being the be-all/end-all, even when dealing with massive levels of superspeed. I know people are prone to call PIS every time someone with speed doesn't perform the legendary combo-to-ko or use speed at their maximum efficiency, but that's just the reality of the situation. Trying to apply real world science and logic on characters, even the human ones, who routinely shit on them is an exercise in futility.

Surfer's tried rushing Thor, hit and run tactics, dodging etc. It's never won him the fight. Even against Bill his immense speed was no game ending edge.

Surfer's fast, very fast, but Thor can handle it. I think at some point a writer should toss in a panel describing Norrin's speed (Gazillion times faster than light! That's the kind of stuff that people like right?) while Thor's bashing him in the face.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Surfer's tried rushing Thor, hit and run tactics, dodging etc. It's never won him the fight. Even against Bill his immense speed was no game ending edge.

Surfer's fast, very fast, but Thor can handle it. I think at some point a writer should toss in a panel describing Norrin's speed (Gazillion times faster than light, that's the kind of stuff that some people like no?) while Thor counters it.

Right, but for some reason, in a forum fight, that should change. And it's not just Surfer/Thor, but speed in general that suddenly becomes blown completely out of proportion.

And until Thor explicitly counters or weathers a blitz which the writer specifically quantifies at x times the speed of light or something, Thor will always lose to someone with speed....

...even though he's beaten or fared very well almost virtually every speedster he battled against.

Still need to see an all out fight between the two. IMO we can't make any conclusions about the two until surfer REALLY cuts loose on Thor. I haven't seen one fight where he wasn't trying to talk thor down.

Originally posted by Naija boy
though if you gave me Surfers powerset..and gave rage Thors powerset.....Rage would be dead before he could even shout...."for Odin".heh

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd f*ck you up everyday of the week, and twice on Thursday's.

That picture doesn't give the impression that Nate would beat anything but his dick.

lmao

The Speed Factor.

Surfer can travel through space at incredible speeds. But, I have never read even one word about his speed in battle, reflexes, etc.

Thor has been stated, again and again, to have speed feats in perception as well as reflexes, spinning the hammer and movement in battle. The speeds have been described as "speed of thought" and "twice the speed of light" and others that I'm sure have been listed in this forum.

Surfer just hasn't done anything like that.

As far as Surfers flight speed is concerned, there have been statements and feats, on panel, that show his speed might not give him an edge against Thor at all.

Ok this is getting ridiculous...thor does not have faster perceptions than surfer....not even freaking close. Thor has a very limited amount of superspeed showings which pale in comparison to those of surfer. Surfer has tracked and perceived light speed electronic signals, reacted in nano- seconds, shown the ability to think at super speeds, and performed legitimate speed blitzes on multiple opponents. They are not on the same speed level at all and to even hint at such is inane but to hint that Thor is faster is bordering on madness.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok this is getting ridiculous...thor does not have faster perceptions than surfer....not even freaking close. Thor has a very limited amount of superspeed showings which pale in comparison to those of surfer. Surfer has tracked and perceived light speed electronic signals, reacted in nano- seconds, shown the ability to think at super speeds, and performed legitimate speed blitzes on multiple opponents. They are not on the same speed level at all and to even hint at such is inane but to hint that Thor is faster is bordering on madness.

😑

Someone said Thor has faster reaction time than Surfer? Who? I agree, that is silly.

I do however think at this point his speed isn't going to be a game ending power. An advantage, but if Blood and Thunder (Along with their other fights but this sticks out because he resorted to hit and run tactics) is any indication, it's not an insurmountable one.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
😑

Someone said Thor has faster reaction time than Surfer? Who? I agree, that is silly.

I do however think at this point his speed isn't going to be a game ending power. An advantage, but if Blood and Thunder (Along with their other fights but this sticks out because he resorted to hit and run tactics) is any indication, it's not an insurmountable one.

It was in the post directly above mine and mentioned somewhere else in this thread i believe. I certainly dont think that in character ,Surfers speed in and of itself is going to be the end of Thor but going as far as suggesting Thor has better reflexes or perceptions or whatever is nothing short of ludicrous.

Surfer is supposedly nano-seconds level in reaction time.

Thor is more like, single digit milliseconds level in reaction time.

That should be an astronomical difference, Thor may as well be a statue from Surfer's viewpoint. But this gap won't be evident in comics.

Originally posted by zopzop
. He's withstood brutal punishment without being KOed (example vs the Celestials where he withstood MULTIPLE blasts and still wasn't knocked unconscious).

and what if we take the u foes taking him down? its a DOUBLE edge sword you cant peak only the high ones which are clearly PIS

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If Thor were to use his powers to his utmost ability, he'd also be Trans/Skyfather level.

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Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
. I think at some point a writer should toss in a panel describing Norrin's speed (Gazillion times faster than light! That's the kind of stuff that people like right?) while Thor's bashing him in the face.

but until your fiction comes to life we got the real thor which is a dumb brick that gets owned twice by tutinax and raped by the u foes 🙄

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

...even though he's beaten or fared very well almost virtually every speedster he battled against.

even thought he got much more feats of actually getting blitzed by king hyperion, gladiator,spider-man,wolverine atc atc 🙄

jake you are a good poster but when it comes down to thor you are just as much biased and double standarded as quan with thanos , Lol at saying thor is trans/skyfather and Lol at WM Thor being a mid trans GTFO

Don't bash.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If Thor were to use his powers to his utmost ability, he'd also be Trans/Skyfather level.

And I'll be the first to concede Surfer's wider array of abilities and versatility as compared to Thor. I just don't buy into the theory that Surfer's speed is his most powerful ability at his disposal when compared to everything else he can do. Speed's important, sure, but really, comics don't support it being the be-all/end-all, even when dealing with massive levels of superspeed. I know people are prone to call PIS every time someone with speed doesn't perform the legendary combo-to-ko or use speed at their maximum efficiency, but that's just the reality of the situation. Trying to apply real world science and logic on characters, even the human ones, who routinely shit on them is an exercise in futility.

It's only a reality in some cases because the writer knows that Character A will dominate Character B easily and refuses to allow this to happen for the sake of the story. But in other cases the writer makes known of what Character A can really do if he/she wanted.

Comics ARE built off of science and logic (or at least it tries to be at times), otherwise the suspension of disbelief fails. It's just that the science isn't always correct or discovered yet (like magic). Everyone knows how strong a character is based off the things they have lift, pulled, hit, etc... Even when using comparisons to other characters the root is still which natural feats were done at the root. Why do you think Superman is slightly stronger or equal to Thor when they have never fought or engaged in strength? Is it because of the natural lifting, pulling,... feats they have that compare? Isn't that based off science or logic?

Is it reasonable for a character to view bullets as frozen in time yet gets hits, while alert, to an attack moving at a small fraction of a bullets speed? Is it because of the character's ability that he got hit or is it because the writer chose to ignore their ability to falsely create adversity? The writer knows the truth and yet chooses what is best for the comic company, even if that means to go against logic at time.

This is the spirit of why we have the rule "Character's fight at their best ability AS SHOWN BEFORE".
There is no writer to purposely ignore a character's natural ability just because it suits the story.

IMO, it is speed that prevents Thor from being Trans level or even Skyfather level. Without speed and him using his powers at their utmost he is still only a herald level being.